I keep hearing politicians saying this but without explaining why America is so great - as a foreigner with a great love for the US I would like to know!

Is this a trick question?  ;  ]

As someone once put it, you can tell a great nation by how many people are trying to get in and how many are trying to get out.

I'm going to leave the "Why" to others, this should get interesting.  Please, come and visit, for the real answers, before it's too late, as we seem to be sliding towards Socialism at a rapid rate.

OK, I can't resist, I'll start the list with a few things at random:
Our Constitution and Bill of Rights ( freedom of speech, right to bear arms, crazy stuff like that );  Freedom;  Opportunity;  Standard of Living;  A long history of helping other nations in times of need;  And remember, Rock and Roll was created here (along with a bazillion other things), how great is that?

Just having some fun here....  next?

Well, that's a pretty subjective question, one to which some people will agree and some won't, and some will just be ambivalent. But if you're just asking for personal reasons, any place that lets me enjoy my life and consider what I do for a living to be more entertainment than toil and to be heavily rewarded for it gets my vote. Could this happen elsewhere? Sure. But I can't compare since I haven't lived elsewhere. I've had the pleasure of being able to live somewhere that I can take personal/financial/career risks and both profit from them as well as learn from my failings without any permanent consequence. None of this is to say things are without fault, but you just asked for a personal take not a dissertation on what's right and wrong with this place. So all I can say is that I enjoy my life, I enjoy my work, I live comfortably and don't want to stab everyone around me. Well sometimes I do, but that's usually if I have to wake up early or haven't had cofee yet.

Ask me again when I'm bankrupt and I'm sure I'll have a different answer.

Never believe what politicians say.

SOME of us have always been proud of it.  It didn't take getting my husband into the limelight to do it......

Getting a straight and honest explanation of anything from a politician is like trying to pick up mercury with your fingers.

Both are impossible and likely to make you go mad.

You sound like you believe every spin that you hear, can't make your own judgements about the character of other people, need to overly identify with an idealized version of your country as compensation for some shortcomings and generally won't cut anyone a break because you've already made up your mind.

-- Modified on 8/27/2008 6:47:40 AM

-- Modified on 8/27/2008 6:50:56 AM

The following is from Free Inquiry magazine, Volume 23, Number 2.

Fascism Anyone?

1. Powerful and continuing expressions of nationalism. From the prominent displays of flags and bunting to the ubiquitous lapel pins, the fervor to show patriotic nationalism, both on the part of the regime itself and of citizens caught up in its frenzy, was always obvious. Catchy slogans, pride in the military, and demands for unity were common themes in expressing this nationalism. It was usually coupled with a suspicion of things foreign that often bordered on xenophobia.

4. The supremacy of the military/avid militarism. Ruling elites always identified closely with the military and the industrial infrastructure that supported it. A disproportionate share of national resources was allocated to the military, even when domestic needs were acute. The military was seen as an expression of nationalism, and was used whenever possible to assert national goals, intimidate other nations, and increase the power and prestige of the ruling elite.

7. Obsession with national security. Inevitably, a national security apparatus was under direct control of the ruling elite. It was usually an instrument of oppression, operating in secret and beyond any constraints. Its actions were justified under the rubric of protecting “national security,” and questioning its activities was portrayed as unpatriotic or even treasonous.

8. Religion and ruling elite tied together. Unlike communist regimes, the fascist and protofascist regimes were never proclaimed as godless by their opponents. In fact, most of the regimes attached themselves to the predominant religion of the country and chose to portray themselves as militant defenders of that religion. The fact that the ruling elite’s behavior was incompatible with the precepts of the religion was generally swept under the rug. Propaganda kept up the illusion that the ruling elites were defenders of the faith and opponents of the “godless.” A perception was manufactured that opposing the power elite was tantamount to an attack on religion.

(Laurence W. Britt)

I would propose adding another characteristic to that list

5.  Enrollment of the masses.  Your fellow citizens shouting you down when you either point out the obvious or try to make a reasoned point, or heaven forbid, make a multi-part argument.  

I try not to forget that 1/2 of this country's citizens are below average.

9. Power of corporations protected. Although the personal life of ordinary citizens was under strict control, the ability of large corporations to operate in relative freedom was not compromised. The ruling elite saw the corporate structure as a way to not only ensure military production (in developed states), but also as an additional means of social control. Members of the economic elite were often pampered by the political elite to ensure a continued mutuality of interests, especially in the repression of “have-not” citizens.

11. Disdain and suppression of intellectuals and the arts. Intellectuals and the inherent freedom of ideas and expression associated with them were anathema to these regimes. Intellectual and academic freedom were considered subversive to national security and the patriotic ideal. Universities were tightly controlled; politically unreliable faculty harassed or eliminated. Unorthodox ideas or expressions of dissent were strongly attacked, silenced, or crushed. To these regimes, art and literature should serve the national interest or they had no right to exist.

(Laurence W. Britt)

if we had not sent thousands of Americans to fight in World War II.  (Please do not take that as an insult - seriously)

A War that did not involve America initially.  But many Americans saw that we could not let the forces of tyranny over run Europe.  Now that is not an arrogant attitude it is just fact.  The Lend-Lease program helped England with military supplies even before Pearl Harbor was attacked.  There is no doubt that without American help Europe would have been completely taken over by the Nazis.  However we were an ocean away so why should we have cared?  

But to answer your question more directly.  How is this-  We are great for the things we did not do:

*  Contrary to popular belief we have not closed our borders (America is made up of Italians, Poles, Blacks, Germans, Asians, Mexicans, etc.)  And we have integrated all of these groups successfully.  No matter what people may think!!  There are elected officials of all ethnic types in America.    What is the track record of England in this regard?

*  We have no barrier to success in this country.   There have been Americans born poor/middle class and risen to great success (the Google guys, Michael Jordan, Oprah, Sam Walton, etc.)  No country on the face of this Earth can match our record PERIOD BAR NONE!!!!!  What is the track record of England in this regard?

But that is just my opinion others may disagree.  How they would I don't know.

One of my friends at a recent dinner
party described to us his recent contact
with a wealthy Chinese businessman who
was unwilling to invest in America. “Your
political system is broken. Your choice of
a President is a random event. Your
infrastructure is obsolete and there is no
long term plan to make it better. Your
education has become third rate.”

Freedom!......i have the freedom to own and operate my computer...which allows me to look at your website(wow,your beautiful)...it also gives
you the opportunity(freedom that is)...to post a web site....Neither one of us,has to worry about being dragged off to jail,in doing so.Welcome to the USA...i'd rathr welcome you to my apartment(LOL).

If the politicians don't constantly and jingoistically beat the idea that we are "the greatest" into the heads of the vapid minded sheep that are the American public some might actually read, compare, and question;

Why are we now an “imperialist” nation?

Why if we're a democracy do we only have TWO elect-able parties to choose from?

Why are we the only industrialized nation that can't figure out an affordable healthcare plan for its citizens?

Why 37 years after the first Gas/Oil crises viable fuel alternatives have not been more seriously researched and implemented?

Why after giving HUGE tax breaks to giant corporations did we give them NAFTA to further enrich their bottom line while eviscerating our middle class tax base with the subsequent outsourcing of jobs?

Why when we so seldom now hear of giant "Drug cartels" does the government still utilize(and egregiously misuse)the WAR ON DRUGS "Asset Forfeiture" tool?

Why do we pay a hundred year old "luxury tax" every month on our phone bills when the government feels a phone is such a necessity that it has a program that gives free phones and service to the poor?

Why was the TWO year moritorium on the 'Wage Witholding tax' implemented during WWII never honored?


-- Modified on 8/27/2008 8:44:20 AM

Despite all of are nation's woes...I for one,would not want to live anywhere else...I also salute those who gave their lives for our freedom...I think be-littleing our country,does a great dis-service to those you paid the ultimate sacrifice...for our freedom.

In the United Kingdom many such individuals are "Knighted"

Here; we wait for drugs, alcohol and retched excess to put them on the E! Channel.

because it's where they live. Ego/Ethnocentrism is difficult to transcend.

There are some things that are wonderful about the US. There are other things that are despicable. We're pretty much like every other nation in that we're made up of a population of humans and humans can be wonderful or despicable.

Economically, the two things that have contributed most to the greatness of the US are the genocidal campaigns carried out against Native Americans and the enslavement of Africans. If we had not almost exterminated the Native Americans we could not have expanded from coast to coast and if we had not enslaved millions of people from Africa and of African descent we could not have had a source of essentially free labor for almost 300 years.

As for defending Europe in WWII, we were perfectly willing to let Germany overrun that area until Japan bombed Pearl Harbor. We didn't declare war on Germany until they declared war on us as a result of a mutual defense treaty with Japan. Prior to the war, we also turned away a ship loaded with Jewish refugees.

As I said, we're just humans like everyone else.

Hi Carrie - btw I love London. Great city. I served in the US Navy from the time I was 18 years old until recently. I have lived in the US only 6 years out of the last 30. In my travels I have seen places in which I would happily live especially in the EU, and places that were unimaginably squalid. Now that I am "home" again, I find myself impatient with many of the Americans I meet - they seem to me to have lost an appreciation for the genius of the country, which in my mind is individual liberty, and opportunity not restricted by your "station". And it is true that these values are being eroded by our political system and big business interests on the one hand and by poor education on the other. But I do believe that it is these qualities that made America great, and an example to many other nations, many of which have emulated these values. Whether America is great today is another question. We are  more powerful than most people here understand. But our greatness today, in the international sphere, depends on the wisdom of our leaders in the use of our power, which, in my mind, has been questionable for quite a while. My 2p.  Cheers - Gregory

changing the worst of folk to make for a better unity.  Much of what you see in this country is NOT strictly from one culture alone - heck we were not too proud to steal from anyone... including the Native Americans... (The Iroquois Confederation for one...) with respect to our culture, language, art, science, technology and government... ) That allows us to take advantage of the strengths of each culture... and to abate the weakness of each culture.

There are other things that make us good... but mostly to my mind... the thing that, in the past, that has made us great - is the freedom to fail.... but here lately, we seem doomed - like so many before us, to try to ensure no depths of failure... and without those depths... we can have no pinnacles of success.... sigh....  what I wouldn't give to clamber over your pinnacles...

I really did not want to get into this, but I had to comment.

I love my country (USA), but there are some *serious* things that are going on in this country that *most* people who use the above quotes time and time again seem to ignore.  I'll just bring up one: what about Domestic spying?  Sorry, I just don't buy the argument of "prevention of terrorism."  Benjamin Franklin once said:

"The man who trades freedom for security does not deserve nor will he ever receive either."

I'd rather die than give up my privacy and freedoms.  However, using the argument of "prevention of terrorism" in favor of destroying freedoms, does not hold *any* water with me.

Before anyone asks, yes I was in favor of suing those communication companies (AT&T, etc.) until they paid for their crimes.  And yes, I consider what they did (as well as the government) a crime.

That being said, many apologies for this rant on the GENERAL DISCUSSIONS board.  Can someone *please* move this to POLITICS AND RELIGION?

Now back to our normally scheduled program...  I love DATY, does anyone else?

-- Modified on 8/27/2008 12:20:43 PM

We love our country but fear our government, especially if it's democrats. We need guns to protect ourselves from people trying to help people. They're called socialists. We kill socialists. We love freedom. We try to impose our right wing ideology on others so they can have freedom also, just like us. Oh, yeah. We love the Bible, too. It says Americans are the chosen rulers of the world.

Why the alias?  Do you live here?  If so, perhaps you would enjoy living in another country better than here.  Canada might be good for you.  

and all responses from others.

We just were that last one’s to get around to it. Europe worked it out of their system some time ago. Of course Russia and China have much more recently had their own bouts with these terrible acts. Didn’t out as nearly as well for them. Hmmm Maybe there were other factors involved?

of ONE thing, our FREEDOMS.

Other democracies in the world come close but none match our freedoms. Virtually ALL of the great things in the U.S. stem from these freedoms.

Here’s a short list of a few of the great “things”:

1) The Second Amendment
2) Land ownership
3) Religious Freedom
4) Barbecue (especially brisket and ribs)
5) Hollywood
6) Grilled hamburgers
7) Cultures from all around the world
8) Generosity and Virtuosity
9) Immigration
10) Last but certainly not least - A very strong military (the true protector of these freedoms)

It’s interesting how many have tried to tell you why America isn’t great. I don’t recall you asked that question. I feel bad for them. Sure, we’re not perfect. Our system of government actually sucks, but it’s better than all the rest.

We in the US are no different from people anywhere else. Some of us are among the greatest people in the world, some of us are among the most evil people to have ever lived and the vast majority of us just sleepwalk through all of it.

I'm not an America basher, just a realist.

'Cuz you come over for little silly visits...

(((((((((((((((((EARTHQUAKE)))))))))))))))))))))

You bad girlie you!

Tra

Yes, those two things happened, but were not instrumental in our success.

1) If we hadn't killed the Indians but instead paid them off, the end result would have been the same.

2) To the value of 200 plus years (yes, it's closer to 200 than 300) of slave labor you must also subtract the net losses of both the Civil War and the 100 or so years following it.

My point was that Communism used enslavement to at least as high a degree, but their net gains were negative (famine, starvation, poor production, etc.). So the true reasons for American succes lay elsewhere.

I don't think you were bashing. While your two examples were indeed significant, I just disagree about the net financial effect.

-- Modified on 8/27/2008 8:22:19 PM

Oops...I meant REALITY!

It inevitably would provoke partisan breakdown.

The thing is, OUR mistakes are now beginning to slowly catch up with us.

What I hate is anyone pissing on my shoe and telling me it's raining.

"Why the alias?"
1. Because it is topical.
2. Because I can.

All Carrie will find over at the P&R board is a legion of chest thumping, jingoistic myrmidons parroting the same nationalistic mantras she is trying to get to the bottom of .

Ponderously slow and inefficient at times YES; but GENIUS in how our forefathers set it up to be a government "BY" the people and through the division of the branches and the subsequent "checks and balances" has time and again thwarted knee jerk reactionary movements or the monopolization of power by a single branch.

 We have MUCH to be thankful for as well as proud of in "America"; but without constant critiquing and watch-dogging our great experiment could become as despicable as any of histories worst examples.

Pay the Native Americans off???? ROFLMAO. Maybe in a bizarro parallel universe in which Manifest Destiny and the White Man's Burden didn't exist.

Add the almost 100 years of sharecropping to the 200 of slavery and you get almost 300 years. I grew up in the rural south and am familiar with the 'freedom' that former slaves enjoyed until the 1960s. Sharecropping still provided essentially free labor.

I agree that there were and are other factors at play, most significantly the high level of individual freedom and the consistent support of corporations, often at the expense of individuals. As I said before, we're sometimes the best of folks and sometimes the worst.

By pretty much any objective measure- life expectancy, infant mortality, literacy, crime rates, etc. the US certainly isn't the greatest and not even in the top ten. The only area in which the US has a significant advantage over other nations is in per capita GDP. This is what leads so many people in the US to assume that 'we are the greatest' (or to paraphrase of Homer Simpson, "We are so smart, S-M-R-T) since we equate money with goodness.

What form of government do you prefer?  Or is it Miss Alias?

-- Modified on 8/28/2008 8:57:56 AM

If she is trying, as you state, to get to the bottom of this, then yes the P&R board is much more appropriate for this topic.

Do you get it or do I need to use more big words.

AFA

It the assholes bashing America from behind aliases that you should be annoyed with, not Carrie or the English. I believe her question was genuine and not mean spirited, or meant to inflame. Assholes like Koolaid are the ones with the problem, not the English and certainly not Carrie. Now the French....Well that's a different story. lol

This is not the place for political debate, and I won't respond directly to assholes like koolaid, but if he/she wants to crawl out from behind his alias and come on over to the P&R board where this belongs I'll be more than happy to tell this douche bag exactly why he is full of shit.

Well at least I hope you do because I don't, but I imagine they say not to do it. lol

There's no reason to laugh if you had read all the words I wrote. I wasn't suggesting anything close to the idea that we should have nor would have even considered an equitable trade for the land. I merely pointed out that IF things had gone that way the end result would have been identical, except with a larger Indian population.

I grew up in "The South" as well. So what?

Oh, please...volley some more...oh please.

I prefer the Democratic Federal Republic that America has been blessed with for the last 230 years. However; I adamantly stand behind George Washington's sentiments that "a party system will be the ruination of the Country".

Just call me KAO because gender has no relevance to the issue.

Except there can be no edifying debate when argument ad hominem and epithets are the only tools used by you and your ilk.

I'll crawl out from under the bridge and leave the nice troll alone.  One thing is interesting.  This alias was created for this thread.  

-- Modified on 8/29/2008 7:40:03 AM

So in return you hijack Carrie's quite innocent and straight forward question and hurls insults from behind an alias. As I said "what a wuss"

and improve on your reading comprehension.

Angry. No.  Just like I would for a spoiled little child, I just feel sorry for you because you don't get it, and apparently never will.  

I agree completely with GaGambler that he is a huge hypocrite, but I also am vigilant about truth telling.

They used to say "America: Love it or leave it"

I'll say this: Love it, fix it, or leave it.

Carrie raised a question and I offered an opinion.

 The only time I remotely engaged in insults was AFTER they had already been "hurled" at me.  

   The quick effort to impugn and debase any opinion that is less than main-stream is in itself a perfect vindication for the use of an "alias".
Is the fact that one cannot smear and make a pariah of my registered username because of the opinions I promulgate the impetus behind your disdain for aliases?

Like many of us I would like to fix what is wrong; but I am a humble man of little influence.
According to your proclamation should I just pack my bags because my voice is not loud enough to effect a swift "fix"?