Just understand that a chance exists that things can end badly and be prepared for it.

Maybe tour his area if you can, shoot him an email that you are coming his way and see if he will bite?

I guess women either love him or want to shoot him.

Hello everyone. I had an amazing date with a new client recently and I can't stop thinking about him. I want him badly and keep logging into my email every time I wake up in the middle of the night to check for his response to my follow up. Everything about him made me get that tingly feeling. It won't go away. The thought of not seeing him again makes my eyes well up.

I know, I know. We girls lack emotional connections sometimes and fall hard whenever we find someone who touches us in that way. I am not saying its not the case here. In fact, I hope it is!!! I hope I am not missing out on the man of my dreams and just fell in lust with a nice long stroke, conversation, common interests and most handsome guy I've kissed in years...

As much as a true connection is one to cherish...what if we shared a TRUE connection? That's upsetting. I'd prefer that I'm just lacking romance/love and feeling "lovey dovey" due to that than knowing the connection and attraction was mutual. It would literally need to be a disney movie to work out lol.

What also makes me hope I'm just craving romance is that I can't have what I want with a simple phone call...I have to wait until he books and pays me. Poor me, right? If only you knew how out of control I feel right now... My hope is that he books again, that will let me know a lot (but he's a distance away geographically and I don't visit his area).

What if he feels the same way about me and is staying away so that he doesn't get taken advantage of? I know for certain that I'm not telling him this stuff so that he doesn't take advantage of me and use my feelings to get a free good time. But the main thing I'm running from is *rejection* and a huge mistake.

If only we'd met on match.com....

Go easy friends.





-- Modified on 4/27/2011 9:04:21 PM

If he is married and has kids, etc., then you need to forget about it.

If he is single, the maybe things could progress, but don't use words, use actions.  Give him the time of his life the next time you meet and see how he responds to that.

Unfortunately, the rules book says that he has to make the next move.  It's a slow dance, so don't rush it.

Also remember that the odds say it won't work, but you never know till you try.

In the meantime, enjoy it.

usually the gut is smarter than the brain. so trust it and if you feel like you can go all out for it, do it.

there is no guarantee it will work out but if you think too much about "the odds" and other irrelevant BS it SURELY won't. if you give it your best try (really) which also means being completely sincere and open with no games and no BS..... it might work. it might not too but then you KNOW.

i have to tell you though, i'm prejudiced. i've only gone all out like that 5 times so the "batting average" in my experience is .600 which isn't too bad.

the 3 successful relationships ended for various reasons that were good for us both. the "failures" were a very early and a very recent one. in both cases, regrettably, i was not able to make a best effort.

best of luck and i hope you get very happy.

I obviously can't say what a giant douche bag he is for his statement unless I chose to post under an alias, but I give you permission to tell him "exactly" how you feel without any fear of being moderated. lol

I am sure there is a rule somewhere stating that moderators can't call posters fucking idiot clueless douchebags, even when it's true, so I really can't tell this "gentleman" how I really feel about his moronic, classless statement. If you would be so kind as to do it for me, that would be just fine.

Very highly doubt the lady is talking about your's truly, though.

Sounds like a lucky guy, this one she has feelings for.

I say tell him. You won't know unless you try and he could very well feel the same.

No regrets, lady. At least you'll know. The reward could very well outweigh the risk.  ;o)

FUCK YOU!

I consider myself to be a quality man. I  love my wife and son and foster daughter. I make a damn good living to the point my wife need not work. I try to make the world a better place by helping those in need.

Yet my wife is a sex worker, and I have accepted her choice to do so. That does not make me less of a man.

I do feel your closed mindedness  makes you less of one.


-- Modified on 4/28/2011 7:27:59 AM

Keep the boundaries in check and your feelings to yourself. Get a grip!

No matter how hot you are (and I can see behind the curtain) telling a man that you love him this soon will send most men especially "hobbyists" running for the exits.

Now there is absolutely nothing wrong with pursuing this if you have feelings, as a matter of fact I would strongly encourage you to follow your feelings "IF" and only if he is single and able to start a relationship, otherwise it will only lead to heartbreak.

Good luck, and remember take it slow, most men like at least the illusion that they are the pursuer.

and his classless comments.

I don't know why his comments struck such a chord in either of you.

We all know that users on this board tend to speak in generalities.

Yes, there are "quality" men who involve themselves in relationships with active providers.

But I think that they are the exceptions and not the rule.

I got involved in a heavy relationship with a client a few years ago and involved in another heavy relationship with a non-client last year.

I was told by an agency owner friend/mentor of mine at the start of both relationships:  "No man worth having will ever tolerate what you do for a living for more than the amount of time it takes for him to figure out that he loves you."

In the end the client had continued seeing providers behind my back and the boyfriend had a set of severe issues as related to prescription drug addiction he was hiding- both professed to love me but both used my lifestyle and profession as an excuse to continue grappling with their own demons.  

We all know of at least one provider with a "good" man - someone who is emotionally and professionally stable.  But for every provider with a "good" man there are 100 providers with boyfriends and husbands whose lifestyles they subsidize entirely.  For every provider with a stable man there are 100 providers with lovers whose attraction to the provider is less about her and more about their attraction to chaos or a permissive partner who will ignore their damage, shortcomings or demons because she just wants someone, anyone to love her.

As a matter of fact, I call it "Someone, Anyone- Please Love Me Syndrome".

After the two lessons I learned with the client and the non-client boyfriend I personally feel that dating is fun and I wouldn't rule out an open-relationship with a man who has an awareness of what I do and is sophisticated enough to handle it and enjoy other lovers himself.  Everyone needs a good partner-in-crime.

But honestly, I wouldn't seriously consider any man who seems exceedingly comfortable with my profession.  I remember thinking how bizarre it felt that both of those boyfriends were so comfortable with me saying "off to work [to sleep with another man]" or climbing into bed after having just slept with four others.

I don't have any intention of quitting and I wouldn't halt my activities for any casual lover.

But if I met the man who was "the one" (or one of "the ones") I would expect that at some point he would want me to quit- and I would.  But that's just my personal sensibility.

As far as the original poster goes, I would agree with BashfulJohn that everyone here is saying "go for it" because its a fantasy for some clients here that a provider fall for them.

And I would agree with Madalyn- you sound lonely.

This is a deeply isolating lifestyle and it is easy to become infatuated with clients.
But honestly, its an amateur mistake.

We all make it and we all suffer the repercussions if we pursue it.  And what if you offend or scare him?  That is more common than you think- providers can come on strong and scare the shit out of clients who thought that this was the safest place for them in terms of casual intimacy.

All you know about this man is what he has told you- in your bedroom.  Your reality is his construction- they all seem perfect in our beds.

Enjoy your clients, love and adore them- but when they leave, forget them until they ask you to remember by arranging another meeting.

would NEVER consider a relationship with a lady in your profession."

Your words don't make a bit of distinction about whether a woman might consider leaving her vocation for the right man, casual relationships (of which I have had several), or any of the other thousands of possible scenarios where a "quality man" might consider a relationship with a working girl.

You definitely DID NOT choose your words carefully. You made a blanket statement full of your own biases against dating a working girl, and as with most blanket statements it came across as insulting to those that it applied to, and as someone who has many friends that are providers and one who has actually had relationships with providers, I found your words highly insulting.

This was your first time meeting him, right?  Don't be impulsive.  You might meet him again and the experience may not be quite the same.  Simply put, you have a very limited perspective of what he's like, so be cautious.  Good luck though.

He claims a "quality man" would NEVER consider a relationship with a provider, does he seriously believe that EVERY man involved with a provider or who met through the hobby is not a "quality" man? I don't claim to be a mind reader, I can only go by the words he writes, words he claims to have chosen quite carefully I might add.

I find his words quite offensive to all providers and anyone who has ever been involved with one.

As to your thoughts, I find there is a huge difference between meeting through the hobby, and a LTR with an active provider.

I can only speak for myself, but I could see myself falling for a provider just as easily as a woman with any other occupation. That said, "if" I were to actually fall in love with such a woman, at some point I confess she would have to quit having sex with other men for our relationship to continue. I am not so hung up on a womans past, but I will admit I would never be so "open minded" enough to share I woman I was truly in love with. Again I speak only for myself, something our classless friend should learn to do. I can't speak for what others find acceptable in their relationships and whether our not their choices make them "quality" men or not.

Don't let a chance go by without trying.  I know as a single hobby guy who would like to maybe meet someone who connects with me that if she feels something also that she would have the guts to tell me.  Life is to short to let the right person go by without giving it a try even if it isn't a mutual thing.

I would email my lover and tell him he's not "quality" except he's currently attached to the Embassy in Thailand, and emails back and forth are sporadic. I'll save my next mail to him for something of more substance.

What you mean to say is that YOU could never wrap your brain around a relationship with an escort. Nothing at all wrong with that, many men would never be able to either. But you certainly don't speak for all men.

If he had said "most quality men" we wouldn't be on this tangent.

All I'm saying (and all I think he was saying) is that I don't think very many emotionally and professionally stable men would compromise the quality of their life or livelihood or give all of their love and commitment to an active prostitute.

That's just my opinion.

From my personal experience and what I've seen of other providers there are not many men without "issues" or baggage who date providers - our lives are under the cover of darkness and a man (the kind that a girl wants) would have to assume the lies and misdirection we live with to be with us in addition to tolerating the machinations of other men who are sleeping with her.

Who do you know who wants to introduce his girlfriend or wife, the prostitute, at a family function, in social or professional circles?

Men are no different than women in that it is more than beauty and sex which make a meaningful relationship.  A sense of accomplishment, purpose or productivity is vital.  Men want a woman with substance as much as a woman wants the same.  I'm not saying that all she is is an active provider but before you allow yourself to go crazy with these thoughts of love you have to realistically evaluate how the he sees you and what you bring to the table.

I'm just being real here.  

3217 didn't effectively express himself and opened his thoughts to criticism- but I think I understood what was being said because its been said (to prophetic effect) by someone I respect.

The original poster sounds like a schoolgirl.
A very hot school girl according to the mods in this thread.
Her post didn't sound like she wanted to be a casual lover to this dude- it sounded like she was ultimately hoping for an LTR with him.
That's lovely, but its unrealistic.
I want her to get over it or at the very least learn how to harness those good amazing feelings for clients before she breaks her own heart.

Several of us in this thread know how beautiful it can be when you cross the provider/client professional line but few know how devastating it is when the provider is returned to the reality of the fact that it more often than not is doomed to fail....and 3217 wasn't too far off the mark generally speaking IMO.

This goes to show that when people have have sex that emotions get involved. Usually it takes 3-4 times before this happens.

My advice to you is to take a break and not see the client.

Remember if he paid to see you he will be paying to see other ladies.

Don't set yourself up for a broken heart. It is very likely as one provider posted that if you get into a real relationship he will continue to see other providers on the side.

and I believe at some level you are ashamed of your participation in hiring prostitutes for your own pleasure.

I have no such hang ups, and I feel absolutely no shame for my actions, nor do I look down on women for their life choices as you seem to do. Virtually everyone in my life knows about my participation in the hobby, including my mother.

I think you would be best served by looking inward at what makes you ashamed for hiring a prostitute instead of making moral judgements for the rest of us.

I hope I have typed this slowly enough for you to comprehend as you are the one that seems to be a bit slow on the uptake. Not to mention narrow minded and judgemental. Do you really believe that every man in a LTR with a provider is a "less than quality" man? If so, I actually feel sorry for you.

Just CALL me! LOL

It is possible, I suppose, to meet "the one" like this.

I won't say you should or shouldn't. I'll just say that, IMO, the odds are greatly in favor of you falling for your idea that he is perfect. So, if you do try something, take it slow.

I felt that way when I met my SO. I made myself wait several months to make any sexual advances, since I knew I could get wrapped up by good sex. What a change that was for me.

...for 29 years, went to Ga. Tech for engineering, a gulf war vet, & only 45 years old.

Where DO you find the time?

"They" pay us to leave.  This is a good rule.  If you need a connecton, try a dating service.  It's unfair to bring your lack of a emotional connection/personal issues into a business transaction.  

You met him under these circumstances.  He will choose whether to see you again.  Personally, I hope he isn't the type to take advantage of this situation whether he's married or not.  You're too emotional over a short date with a stranger.  I've found loving myself and feeling happy with who I am brings a stength that no-one can grant me.  

His date with you was about him, not you.  Please keep his needs in mind and move on.  

I feel for you, you come across very lonely.  I hope this message helped, I know it can hurt to hear the truth.

I would guess that if he has similar thoughts or feelings he might have responded within a day or so.  

The two scenarios (though I suppose there could be more) in which he might not respond are (1) that he DOES NOT feel the same; or (2) that he might feel the same, but also be conflicted about it.  That could explain at least part of the reason that he "plays" in a different geographical area than he lives.

Of course, he may not have received it yet...

One other thought, and this depends on many variables: a lady that I saw for some time offered to come to me soon after we met.  It was always "business" as usual but we enjoyed each other's company immensely on dozens of occasions.  But in the end--though we thought very highly of each other--we both knew that our lives weren't compatible.  She remained in "business" throughout this time, and eventually found someone with whom she was compatible.

would NEVER consider a relationship with a lady in your profession.
PLEASE understand I am not implying that you not are a fantastic person , lady or human being - you very well may be .
QUALITY men or a gentleman just could never wrap his brain around a commited relationship with you type of career.
Our brains are wired differenty and can seperate the 2 very easily.
Advice : You only live once !  All humans enjoy a compliment - yes even men get flattered . I would suggest NOT to let him know.....WHY ? We easily seperate the 2 and he can and most likely " use " this knowledge to get what he wants .

OK, first thing you'll notice that you've tapped into something here at TER.  Loads of the guys here are going to tell you to go for it.  Why?  Because they are lonely punters, and whether they are willing to admit it or not their secret dream is to have a provider fall for them.  Whether they can follow through with any real romance is another thing.  The ego stroke of thinking a provider likes them is usually all they want.  Do a search and see how many of these same guys telling you to 'go for it' also say they could never live with a woman who does your job.

Think about these things:

You met a guy.  You had ONE date.  It was a PAID date, a mutually-arranged fantasy.  You probably know almost nothing about him.  Think back to real dates you've had.  Now think back to this one.  How much do you really know about him?  How much does he really know about you?  He hires prostitutes.  Why?

My advice is to wait and see if he calls for another appointment.  If he wants to spend more time with you, he'll call.  Do NOTHING until then.  You're a professional.  Act like one.  If you end up spending more time together, you end up spending more time together.  At some point, maybe you can tell him you want a REAL date.  See whether he takes you up on it.  If he does, then your professional relationship must end immediately.

I am speaking from bitter experience, by the way.  I have known and dated sex workers that I did NOT meet on the job.  I have also known and had real relationships with sex workers that I met on the job.  here are three examples.  None of these examples will make you feel good...

1) I saw a woman in a brothel and we really hit it off.  We were both lonely foreign workers in a strange town.  You know that George Clooney movie 'The American'?  It was a lot like that (except I don't look like George Clooney and I'm not an assassin  Just like in the movie, we shifted to hanging out more and more, but just like in the movie it was doomed from the start.  It couldn't go anywhere.  I had a wife and family that I never told her about.  In fact, I had lied outright when she first asked me.  And then later it was close to Christmas, and I had a choice: Go home, or go with her.  I chose home.  The truth of everything came out.  We were supposed to be enjoying the Christmas market.  Instead, we stood on the old city wall in the dark and she cried and there was nothing I could say.  I cried on the train ride out of town.  I am a shit.  I send her flowers occasionally.  I don't know why.  We'll almost certainly never see each other again.

2) There was this other woman who worked a certain touristy European street very close to where I worked.  I saw her a lot, saw and talked with a lot of other girls who worked around there.  I ended up working with her on some sex worker peer-education stuff, so we got to know each other.  We were both working.  No sex, but I paid her when we were working.  I was being paid to talk to her, and I paid her to talk to me.  That's it.  Except, OK, one night I was drunk and I hired her and we had a massive makeout session.  Which we didn't talk about thereafter.  But then one day we were in a strip club/brothel talking with the owner and about working conditions and stuff, and afterwards we are talking about stuff, including the boyfriend she was in the process of breaking up with.  And she looks at me and tells me she wants to date me.  Real dates.  And she starts going on about what she wants to wear and this particular restaurant that we should go to on our first date and everything, and it's clear she has been thinking about this a long time.  I was totally blindsided.  I considered her a friend, a coworker.  I couldn't date her.  What was she thinking?  But wow, after that I secretly sort of wanted a romance.  I don't know why.  It was stupid.  We ended up fighting.  After one public argument another girl working the street told me as I stormed home: 'John, why don't you just kiss her?  She wants you to!'  And the next day I probably would have, but thereafter she refused to see me unless I paid.  And we stopped working together.  

3) Then there's another girl.  Hired her off Craig's list.  Really smart, really interesting.  But I never felt there was any sexual chemistry.  We ended up going to drinks and dinner and the extent of sex stuff was one long kiss goodnight.  But somehow we exchanged emails and decided to get together again to check out some stuff in the city together, and we began hanging out more and more and became friends.  She knew I was happily married, but...  Eventually our relationship included crazy middle-of-the-night phone calls, her yelling out windows at me as I --literally-- ran away from her apartment, and finally her being royally bitched out by my wife on the phone.  We're still friends, and keep in contact.  She said recently to me that her relationship with her DAD is more sexually charged than ours

So there you go.  


Ah fuck it.  I am modifying this post.  You know what?  Go for it.  Email the guy and tell him you had an awesome time and ask him out on a real date.  See what he says.  See how it goes.  It's spring.  Butterflies and posies and sunshine.  Teddy bears and crap like that.  Woo woo.  Can you hear the music swell?  If it works out, please let me know when the wedding is so I can get drunk and masturbate in front of my computer while you get hitched.  If it doesn't work out, tell me that too, and if I'm in your town I'll buy you a drink and we'll talk about why men suck.

Either way, you should have posted using your real handle, because your post would have increased business just as much as if you had described the discovery that you're a multiorgasmic squirter and just getting into the business but wasn't quite sure what your rates should be.  


-- Modified on 4/28/2011 1:31:05 PM

Given my ability to see behind the curtain, I can only say that I wish you well dear.  You are a great lady and deserve happiness.

1) You ARE a quality man

and

2) YOUR inability to maintain relationship with sex worker is universal among all "quality" men.

I would recommend not to make unfounded generalizations.

Lina  

boy are you gonna get it.   what a hurtful, judgemental thing to say.   there is no quality transaction involved here.  there is no class system in this hobby.  we are all humans meeting needs from each other.   if she has fallen hard for another, it is not unworkable because she is unworthy.  there are a plethora of practical reasons why she may not be able to connect with this man, but quality is not an issue.   i dont understand how you can hobby if you feel superior to the providers.

my advice to the OP is to make the outreach once, if he does not respond harden your heart and move on.

Wow, that's a change. One of the reasons I see providers, is so I don't get a call in the morning.  So if it was me, I'd prefer you keep your feelings to yourself.

pretty much tells everyone your placement in society .
I copied and pasted this from Wikpedia as it is quite obvious you are inept ( ignorant for your less than adequate brain and education ) in the proper definitions of english words.

GENTLEMAN :
In modern speech, the term is usually democratised so as to include any man of good, courteous conduct, or even to all men (as in indications of gender-separated facilities, or as a sign of the speaker's own courtesy when addressing others).

Notice the last sentence of the above defenition, and then refer to your initial post - I rest my case !

I say that no risk = no reward.

A lot of things might be assumed, but you never really know until you, specifically, deal with him, specifically.

Because of the peculiar nature of the boundaries in the hobby, it's a place where in most cases the woman has to make the first move if only by indicating her receptivity.

What do you have to lose? You can't win if you don't play. It's not as if he can't be replaced on the client end. Heck, you probably turn down clients every day. If you lose, you lose a client and someone who never would have been your BF anyway -- so really, you have lost very little. If you win, you still lose a client but you gain (at least) a boyfriend along with all that entails.

It seems to me like a no-brainer.

Do not ASSUME failure. By doing so, you make it inevitable.

SecretScientist- I thank you for your thoughts in response to my own; this is an incredible post, truly, and I am very happy for you.

However, my issue with your comments is in the same vein of my issue with GAGambler's and Lina's-

Everyone who has responded to this line of conversation has personified 3217's orignal remarks with themselves, their lovers, providers or men in general.  I don't understand this.

Please do not dismiss my personal experience and my observance of dozens of other providers' experiences over the course of five years of working independently and with multiple agencies as the limited bitter broad strokes of a woman scorned.

Yes, non-professional women encounter the very same issues that professionals do in love and relationships-

But I think that it is foolish to pretend that the relationships of providers, particularly the relationships of providers between themselves and clients or men who operate with full awareness of their activities (the two are separate issues entirely which are being muddled in this discussion), are not unique.
They are unique in that providers are exposed to more men than the average civilian and the livelihood of providers is one which is mired in social stigma.

If I walked into a speed-dating scene or posted on Match.com with my education, my appearance and my manner- but announced that I was a prostitute who here truly believes that the majority of would-be suitors would react positively to that?

Who exactly do you think would react positively to that or pursue me?
Oh I don't know- married men or men thinking they could use me for some immediate purpose, be it social support, financial support, sex or some other manipulation.

Everyone here likes to pretend that we are all well-adjusted, socially adept, capable of expressing ourselves sexually with whomever we choose on demand and its only sheer hypersexuality or unfulfilled marital attachment that brings us here.

Can someone just admit that everyone who is attracted to this world isn't a paradigm of mental health or stability?  There are some fucked people in our little world.

Providers are a marginal population to some participants: I think that some feel that since our sex and love is commodified we can't be hurt and if we are we somehow suffer less than a non-professional woman who does not sell herself for a living.
But I can't effectively prove why it is that I feel that way because I can't share all of the things that I've seen and experienced during my time in this business.

I am not making a statement that my thoughts,  experiences or assessments are applicable TO YOU specifically.  I don't understand why it is so difficult for some of you to separate yourself from what you're reading when you know that typically we speak in generalities on message boards.  I'm not diminishing myself as provider or the majority of men here.  I know that I can love and be loved, I know that some clients are truly capable of feelings for providers which are not self-motivated in nature.

Even so, I stand by my previous comments.
Your situation, your relationship and your love are exceptions in this business, not a rule.

You are so happy with your lover and yet you are still here, on TER.  Doing what exactly and for what purpose?

I don't mean to be offensive, but this is the sort of thing I speak of.

Most clients will always remain and possess the mentality of a client (using this arena for personal entertainment or a pastime, be it actively or latently) until both the provider and client involved remove themselves from this arena.

Trying to assure me that you're a good man who loves the provider he is with doesn't diminish what I have seen or know to be true.  Any provider who would like to try her hand is within her rights to do so...but more often than not they come back crying on the Provider Only Board when they find out the truths of their client lovers.

The original poster admitted to obsessively waiting for correspondence from a client, a man she claims she loved during the first meeting.

In my professional opinion, this is an inappropriate imposition and I hope that she gets a grip on herself before she makes the client uncomfortable or sabotages herself.

Good luck SecretScientist and again, thank you for your thoughts.

Loved your insight . I choose my words carefully so the intelligent people can fully understand my thoughts - a word nazi you might say.
Quality means just that, and with your experiences I think you fully understand. If you read my post you can see I did NOT make an assumption that she was NOT a quality lady - I am careful about my wording. Others however cannot comprhend the english language and make fools of themselves from my end of the keyboard.
I also used the term " gentleman ".
Seems pretty simple to read and understand but I made the assumption of posters being intelligent.
Live and learn and you can't fix stupid.

I am traveling today so will have to be less eloquent than proper reply to your post requires.

Yes, u are correct when you say that for every one GOOD man in relationship with sex worker there are 100 a-holes.

But look in civvie world. I guarantee you that you will find even more issues there.

Lina

That was brilliant.  Well said.  Your words captured so much of what I wanted to say, what others I've known and loved have said or thought.  Or should have thought.

No assumption here ......You have a mother......YES?
For the sake of argument , lets assume you have a sister.
I'll make yet another ( I belive to be safe ) assumption - That these women ( mother and sister ) are ones you admire , love repect and look up to. Hell trow in Grandma just to get my point across as I believe you to be a little " slow " in the brain if you know what I mean.
Then while surfing for a provider you see an ad that Mother and sister are provider's !  Are you still with me there Sparky?
After seeing this I will make another safe assumption that you are less than pleased ,and the relationship has taken a less than favorable turn in the way you view them . Confused , ashamed - inject your own adjective here ____________________. Be honest ,and really think about what I have typed here.

Now we shall discuss a possible meaningful relationship for you , Girlfriend , possible wife material maybe. Still with me Sparky ?
I would assume the lady you would choose ,or want to pursue will be someone that you respect , admire and look up to . Much like the qualities you agreed ( or maybe not ) are present in your mother and sister.
Now you find out she is currently a provider - You would be a hypocrite if you feel differently 1

Quality men ( I said Quality ) view things like this and take them into account - You decide whether you are quality or not as I WON"T make that assumption - only you can.

Your first choice of words are not spoken by gentleman or quality men. I tell you what - why don't you use those words directly to your mother . If that though bothers you - than there is your answer. If you choose to do it - listen to your mothers response.

" I make a damn good living to the point my wife need not work." Your word's !
Next you write...............
" Yet my wife is a sex worker,"
Rest my case .

GaGambler hit it on the nose.  Do NOT tell hit you love him!  You can not possibly be in LOVE with him yet.  You DO have a strong attraction to him.   You don't know if he feels the same.   I feel you should approach this cautiously & not do anything stupid...  but don't turn your back on it either.   Sure the odds are against it working out...  but it does work out just often enough so we dare not say "NEVER".  

If you became serious, would you leave the business?  Would he support you & never hold your escort life against you?   Do you have a day job?  Would you choose to continue in the business?   Frankly, just about no one expects to be a provider "Forever" so it's about positioning (no pun intended) yourself to be where you want to be when that happens.  Many girls work their way through school, grad school, etc.  There is so much to ponder.

Go slow.  Do not stalk him.  If you feel that strongly, Do find a way to be in his area.
Best Wishes,
skb

Honey you sound like a woman of extremes lol - extreme passion!

I know I'm a dish- a nice package for someone who will love a chick like me.

I'm just not an LTR or casual dish for a client.

You don't have to kick yourself or your choices.

I could be totally wrong and you two could be fucking soulmates.

I'm just saying this is a nasty path to head down more than once- and usually all it takes is once for a girl to know why she shouldn't fall for clients.

I meet a lot of guys who are crush-worthy and I love it - but I don't entertain fantasies of being with them because most of the time its not possible because they're attached (even when they say they aren't for their own personal satisfaction in the course of a session) and also because I don't want to live in "its complicated" limbo.

Maybe he would take you seriously or the idea of being with you seriously if you broached the topic...but do you really want to be that provider who is seeing a client for free because you adore him only to find out he's still seeing other providers for the variety that brought him to you in the first place?

Just protect your heart and your dignity - thats all I'm saying.

I've got to get off the internet for the day and  play love for a few hours : ).

Take care mama!

Love,
Ally

Just so that we're clear, there are 2 mods on this board.  GaGambler has given his opinion, and I'll give mine.  Not only will you not get moderated for that comment, you've just earned one "get out of jail free" stupid move.  The illustrious Mr High & Mighty is making a consummate ass of himself.  It's my great pleasure to approve his moronic comments so that people can continue to knock him around like a rag doll.

I alluded elsewhere in this thread that I know the OP.  I don't want to say too much as to bring her out of the alias shadow she used.  Suffice it to say that my dealings with her have all been positive.  She deserves to be happy.  After all, she is a human and we all strive for happiness in our own way.  Beyond her, I've had the great opportunity to become friendly with many providers for non-sexual off the clock relationships.  I'll likely spend some time today with one of them.  I see no reason that any of them should be precluded from exploring life with some guy lucky enough to have them.  Their profession creates an issue for some guys.  Hell, so does mine.  I travel frequently with most trips having less that 5 hours advance notice.  Nobody said that life is easy.

Be careful what you wish for because you may get it.

Nobody could have said it better. I totally agree.

you have a relationship with the gal the minute you contact her and it continues from there into extreme intimacy.  according to Carl Jung, every relationship between any two people is as unique as the people themselves.  some providers are so refreshing in the short time i have with them, that i get more out of it than ten years of a "normal" relationship.  and pal, i'm quality...

And soon I will expand on that for Ms. Moore.

So a moderator is allowed to use foul language and contradict himself.
Read his post's..............It's right there.
I view a moderator as someone who can basically " censor " anybody as HE see's fit . Hitler was moderator - just FYI .
A moderator also controls a persons right to free speech . I am a Gulf war veteran and fought for EVERYONEs freedom of speech . Not a huge fan of Hitler or moderators !
Why you would censor what I wrote in ANY post here is beyond me . Simply the way I view things , my opnion .
Again, I am astonished that a moderator ( Ga Gambler ) can use ,and you support such foul language - tells me a LOT about your thinking on the subject of " moderator ".
He also blatently contridicted himself . Great attributes !
You guys are a joke ! Moderate away but I know at least one of you will read this and fior that I am assured you have read my thought's.

When she retires, which I'm told is not far off, all bets are off.

Though I'm sure you've chosen your words SO CAREFULLY you can rationalize your way around any response that DISAGREES (and, yes, I am using caps as a parody), I sumit your ASSumptions are falacious.  As others have pointed out, not everyone shares your opinion of providers.  Those that do have a double standard (can you spell HYPOCRITE?).
Phallus-y #2 (just a little pun for you), there are many men who have married providers over the years.  In fact, I know two top providers, each of whom is 30, who are married to former clients in their 60s.  Both men are highly successful.  Does this make them QUALITY men?  I can't say because I haven't met them.  Nor have you.  But I know their wives as beautiful and intelligent people and consider their husbands lucky.  Now, from your perspective, let me imagine your response: they CAN"T be QUALITY men because they married hookers!  If that's your reaction, then you've created a classic self-fulfilling prophecy having no intellectual validity.
For myself, I can imagine marrying a provider for many reasons, some obvious, some a result of my deviant nature (LOL!).  Since my second marriage is now about to end, however, I don't think I want to be married to ANYONE.  But if I did, my opinion is a provider would bring a lot less emotional baggage and unrealistic expectations to the partnership than most civvie girls.
I am sure your rationale is right for you, and maybe even some other men (I don't pretend to know what percentage because, unlike you I try not to generalize about things I don't know).  But it is demonstrably NOT true for all men.
I hope I have written this simply enough for you to get the point.

Thought so. You didn't know whether or not then to give a gift, but you presume NOW to tell us what a 'gentleman' is.

My, my. How fast they grow the fuck up in a couple of days.

So you're a graduate of Georgia Tech, or some shit like that, and worked for Motorola for 29 of your 45 years. Fucking good for you. That's certainly admirable. Qualify you as a 'gentleman'. Not necessarily.

You could be a serial killer for all we know. Use the boards as a way to meet ladies, then off their asses. Who would suspect a nice, clean cut guy with a college degree and extensive work history doing something as heinous as kill young women? Oh yeah, because he 'says' he's a gentleman.

Go fuck yourself. I'm with Gambler, usually am, on this. You're full of shit. Just because you spew so many words, and quote Wikipedia for fuck sakes doesn't qualify you as anything other than what you are. You're a guy that pays women to have sex with him. Simple. Fucking hypocrite.

Just like Gambler, most people, my mother uncluded, knows I pay women to have sex with me so don't fucking go there. As a matter of fact, if you were such a 'gentleman', you'd take back that comment you made to scoed about what his mother would think. She's not with us anymore, and he has a hard time with this, I know.

So, I'll tell you what. As our mods can testify, hell, most of the board, don't fuck with me and mine. I'm on vacation, a fridge full of beer, neighbor's coming over with a bottle of 'gentlemanly' Scotch, and you already pissed me the fuck off with your attitude and presumptions.

You always piss in a place you walk into for the first time? You had an opportunity to make friends fast, enemies even faster. Why don't you backpeddle and STFU for a while? Maybe you'll learn something they didn't teach you in that fucking college of your's.

Do you honestly suppose you are THE ONLY veteran on this board?

Believe me when I say that your contribution to fight for freedom pales in comparison to contribution of someone I am proud to call my SO.

Whatever your perceived definition of "quality" is, its obvious that your ego by far outweights any qualities you may posess.

Lina

you are in a cyber-brothel.  do you really think that fighting for freedom means that if you walk into a bar or a brothel, it won't have it's own rules?  By the way, have you been censored here?  I think i read all of your narrow-minded comments.  these guys (and I) just find what you had to say to be insulting, equally their right.  If you feel ganged up on, it has nothing to do with free speech, you just said the wrong thing to the wrong crowd.  If I walked among your platoon stationed in the gulf and called them a bunch of pussies or some more insulting cliche, do you think they'd gracefully tell me that I am exactly the guy they were fighting for?

Instead of feeling "hard-done-by", maybe there is something to be learned here by you, about freedom and individuality, because you seem to be pretty narrow-minded about both of those ideas, even though you fought for them.  and escalating an argument on a sex-board to the level of Hitler and concepts of freedom means you've kind of lost perspective.  besides, you got everybody pissed.  there are jerk-offs that regularly post here that wish they were you right now.  there's something to be proud of...

by the way, GaG and LP, i think i'm moderated too.  not quite sure why, how does one get out of cyber-brothel jail?

the one who wanted to make a good impression on providers by giving her a small gift? Now you're saying that as a "quality man" that you wouldn't want to meet this provider on a brightly lit street just because she's a provider.

Whoever takes you on as a client will need to realize that under the gifts and the seemingly nice words is a hypocritical AND hyper-critical man who doesn't respect what she's doing for a living.

Where's the quality in that?

At times I cuss, I do not always use proper etiquette in social situation, I am not well educated, and at times I am a bit uncouth. I will admit to even being reformed gutter trash. Heck, I even have sex with women who are not my wife with her blessing. I am not a proper gentleman. Never claimed to be one.

All that being said I am a quality man in my book.

I will give you my definition of a quality man (or quality woman for that matter):

- A quality man stops to help others without exception of reciprocation.

- A quality man is not overly judgmental of others faults as we all have them.

- A quality man is good to his family and would never intentionally hurt them.

- A quality man is loyal to his friends and his family. He truly loves them.

- A quality man does what he can to support himself and his family, yet is not above seeking help if it is truly needed. Everyone needs help from time to time.

- A quality man does not seek to hurt others, and he does what he can to fix things when he does.

- A quality man protects those he loves and the innocent.

- A quality man is honest in his dealings. He is not a hypocrite.

- A quality man forgives the repentant of the wrongs committed against him.

- A quality man is loyal to what he believes. Yet will admit when he is wrong.

- A quality man actively works to make the world a better place.

- A quality man accepts that others are different from him and may chose a different lifestyle, or see the world differently then him and as long as they are not hurting others he does not condemn them for those differences.

I am not a perfect man, not even close. Yet I have worked very hard to become a quality man and develop the traits above. While I believe no one has all the above traits all the time. I think the true measure of a quality person he seeks to have those traits and is actively working towards the goal of having all those traits all the time.

Now you condemn me for allowing my wife to be an escort. You say that because of that fact I could not be a quality man. That is a big judgement from a man who does not know the reasons she choses to do so or why I forced myself to make peace with it. That is fine. You are indeed entitled to your opinion.

It is plain to me you do not have the same definition of a quality man. That is fine. I am happy with mine.

I chose to support my wife when for reasons that are not mine to post in their totality. I will say this though that I love my wife. I care greatly for her. I accept her reasons for her choice to return to sex work. She is a great person who is struggling with her own demons at this time. I am choosing to stand by her as she does what she feels she must.

If that makes me something less then a quality man, then so be it.

May I ask how is your quest to be a quality man coming? And since it is plain that you definition is different then mine care to share it with me?

See link.

Des fois je reve que je suis dans tes bras
Et qu'a l'oreille tu me parles tout bas
Tu dis des choses qui font fermer les yeux
Et moi je trouve ca merveilleux!

3217 is probably the type of dude who wears fake chains, saves to make it rain and stunts in a car he cant afford

and searches for a gal to "keep it real"

Reading his posts, I think that was his goal all along to get this board all pissed off at him, or he is an idiot with little hope of redemption.

If his goal is to piss us all off it worked and I choose not to let him have that power over me any more.

If he is am idiot then what can I say that would change that?

So instead I choose to post a long winded post about what a quality man is for my own reasons.

You prove my point exactly and have me laughing outloud !
I had a great time today - thanks for letting me in your minds and stirring things up
I was bored .....Thanks again, maybe do it tomorrow - you guys pick the posting and I shall return to play with your head !

As prelude, you are a lady I very much admire and I appreciate your post.

Nevertheless, it seems to me that you are extrapolating a great deal by using your own dating experiences to paint with a broad brush.

By way of disclosure, I am currently dating a provider.

I never had any fantasies about dating a provider. In fact, on many occasions I publicly and explicitly stated that the money in the envelope was to compensate the provider for the fact she can't have a romantic relationship with me. So the fact I now find myself dating a provider (or anyone) is very much contrary to my plans.

But the simple fact of the matter, though this would make her blush, is she is a superior woman in practically any respect according to my value system. Her ideals, her values, her priorities in everyday life and so forth make her a veritable dream girl. And even though there have been many occasions when I have turned women away for their own good; in her case I was very attached before I knew it, and simply couldn't -- though I recommended to her that dating me would be a bad idea.

We already held each other in high regard before we met, and sometimes when you put two such people together, something unplanned is going to happen.

My girlfriend is an intelligent and capable woman -- a sovereign individual -- and more than capable of making her own choices. Either I accept her -- all of her -- or I do not. I have no right to partially or provisionally accept her.  

She doesn't go out and fuck four random guys before she sees me or anything like that; and I don't go off and see providers at this point either. Though, I should point out, my girlfriend never asked me not to see other women because she's smarter than that. Instead she simply surrounds me with so much distilled milk of human kindness that the idea of seeing someone other than her kind of makes me feel sick. She fills me so much there just isn't any room left.

I'm not some loser that she financially supports, I'm not a druggie or any of that crap. True, many providers have boyfriends like that -- but guess what? So do a lot of civie girls!  It's a function of self-worth, NOT occupation.

You are, imho, a very fine woman. I am sorry that your romantic adventures ended the way they did. BUT -- there are a LOT more variables at work than the fact you are a provider and one of your BFs was a former client. Lots of civie girls have identical experiences with men who have never hobbied in their lives.

Here is a fact of life with important implications: half of all men (and women) are below median. I don't care what attribute you pick, half of all people are below the median in that attribute.

In a world where monogamy is still the societal expectation, only 1% of women really get a shot at men who are in the top 1% of any given attribute. All the rest have to settle for less; and a good many end up with men in the bottom 50%. And -- incidentally -- the same thing applies in reverse and sometimes men above the median get women below the median too.

That median could refer to anything -- tendency to fidelity, earning capacity, intelligence, sanity, physical beauty, insight or whatever. Which combination of these attributes equates to a "quality" man depends on your own value system.

But, and this is just my opinion, I don't think it is fair to reach the conclusion that just because a man would date you, experience emotion for you, value you, think highly of you, prioritize you and call you his girlfriend necessarily means he is a man of low quality.

Am I a perfect man? No -- not by a long shot.

But am I a quality man? Yes, I do believe that by most measures, I would be considered such. Though I don't take it personally, I broadly resent the implication that by mere virtue of the fact I hobby -- by virtue of the fact I would kiss YOU -- I must be an inferior man.

And here is one of my qualities: I am not going to deprive my girlfriend of my regard, companionship and emotional content simply on the basis of superficial crap like her occupation. She's a damned fine woman, and when I accept her -- that means she is accepted completely. She goes way out of her way to make sure she is pristine for me, often she has been chaste for days before we meet -- which is something I deeply appreciate. When I deal with her, 99.9% of the time it never crosses my mind that she is a provider.

In a perfect world, I'd have her out in the near-wilderness too busy raising our half-dozen children to maintain any provider presence. But that's a fantasy for another day.

What is the worst that can happen.  He says no.   Go for it.  Ask him to lunch.

so I think I got that part under control at least lol.

I am being very cautious. Honestly, I doubt that I do anything beyond the follow up. Which by the way didn't say too much about me liking him. Just said, you were great, the night was great, hope to see you again. Honestly, if it were me and he wrote that...I wouldn't think too much into it. I'd think its the common courtesy we give our clients to let them know we enjoyed ourselves.


"If you became serious, would you leave the business?  Would he support you & never hold your escort life against you?"


Yes I would leave. I can't speak on him, but honestly I don't expect any guy to NOT hold it against a girl in this situation. I'd just hope to the heavens he is impressed with my monthly income and says ok I see y. This is why I am sad that I feel so strong. Even if something genuine exists its not a pretty picture. This makes me understand that I can't have him and I suspect is making me want him even more.

I mean the poor guy was a kid genuis. He's got a technical degree and he's been working for Motorola as an electrical engineer since he was 16-fucking years old! They've had his ass bouncing all around the globe for past 29 years...

With that kind of life you KNOW how fucked up his social skills have to be. Everything he knows, he learned from a book. For chrissakes, he was probably the guy that inspired the movie 40-YEAR-OLD-VIRGIN.

Who knows? His first love was probably a Thai ladyboy, and when he found out who she really was... well he's never been the same.

Just a thought...


HalfHour

He's single, never married, no kids. I woke up in bed with him on Easter morning. He didn't even know it was Easter. All he does is work, work and work. I love men like that, but most women can't handle such a relationship. He blames this for being single.

"IMO, the odds are greatly in favor of you falling for your idea that he is perfect. So, if you do try something, take it slow."

This is what I am scared of. I know myself well and I am not a good judge of character when I'm in awe. Thanks for this advice, I need to hear things like this more often than I wish to admit lol.

Madalyn, thank you for your comments.

"You're too emotional over a short date with a stranger. "
"I feel for you, you come across very lonely."


They were worth absolutely nothing. Keep up with the strong woman shit so that you can diagnose me and label me. You know, the "we women don't catch feelings, we are not weaklings" bullshit. You are worse than the little boys in the playground that make fun of eachother for things like having a crush on a girl.

If me having feelings for him makes me lonely, then I will gladly say I AM LONELY. Stamp it on my forehead. However, we both know that it takes bit more than a quick crush that happens 1x every 12 months to diagnose a woman as lonely.

If me having emotions bc I do realize that the date was about him makes me lonely or self absorbed, then thats what I am.  The entire point of the post is that I am moving on like a professional whore should, but that I am makes me need help. Great analysis. I haven't done anything here except say:

1) I really want this guy but
2) I know its a bad idea and won't work so
3) I'm sad bc I can't do anything but let shit be.

Translation: That means that I'm being smart about biz, but am really fighting my own PERSONAL feelings. So here we have this post instead of me calling to spill my heart to the gent.

Just wonderin' ... that's all


HH

Yeah he didn't respond. I hate it!!!! I didn't say anything that required a response. It was very very light, didn't say anything about my attraction to him, just said "I tried new things with you and enjoyed it, the night was great. Hope to see ya again!" My common sense wouldn't let me say too much more. I have continued to respect the line between client and provider.

My gut says that the issue isn't that he isn't attracted. The man is definitely attracted. We're just doing things right I guess. We had an overnight, he paid me, we went home. All I can do is see if he ever books again.

But I don't like that you agree that I sound lonely. I sound sad bc I've just been hit with the truth!!! I've just realized that "Yes, I can be very attracted to a client." Up until this one, I honestly thought I had it under control. Never thought I'd like a client like this. But my superpowers are weak...and I do like a client lol. Good to know that I can at least like men strongly still, but bad to know too bc on top of that I've had to face one of the hardest truths a whore has to face....most quality men (and I only like quality) don't want a prostitute. Its common sense, but we're not thinking about that when we've mastered everything a man wants, have cash stashed all around the house and look good 24/7. you'd think we'd have no issues, but this is one that will always exist.

Here is what makes me feel hopeless in this situation, "I'm not saying that all she is is an active provider but before you allow yourself to go crazy with these thoughts of love you have to realistically evaluate how the he sees you and what you bring to the table." Every time I think about him, I immediately check myself "He would never take you seriously." I will have to say the same thing to myself about the next guy client or not. That hurts. But I made the choice to be a whore, so I guess it took the perfect date to let me know the consequences.

I know this is something that I have to learn  and accept over time. No matter how good I feel looking at my luxury car, knowing all the high end restaurants in town, having income 3x what I need and seeing my debts disappear...that means nothing to most quality men bc I am what I am. A whore. So, now that I think of it maybe I should have emphasized that in the original post but your post has helped me understand why this is heavy on my head like it is. See, this post was good for something.

Its not that I like him that has me going nutz, its that I can't have him and know that I have to leave this alone no matter how genuine I feel we connected....unless he books again.

Who you've seen, hell, even what you had for breakfast this morning. lol!

Not really, but the alias part, yeah.

What SUCKS ASS about that is, they won't share this knowledge. Bastards.

Just because of your job is having sex with strangers, does not mean you're doomed to be lonely or unhappy. When I met my wife she was a sex worker. No, I was never her client. Still I never judged her for her job.

It is true we didn't really start to date until after she retired. Yet, when she came out of retirement after we were married, I stood by her. There are some guys who will not dismiss you just because of your job. The trick is you got to be open and honest with a guy and take a chance. Many can not handle it, yet a few of us quality guys can.

You got to be open to love for it to happen. I am not saying that it is good to go after this guy you barely know. It likely isn't a good idea. (I am not saying not to do it ether.) But if you are willing to take small chances good things can happen when you least expect it.

When I met my wife I was not looking and neither was she, yet it happened and to this day I still love her as much as ever even though as I type this she is getting ready for her job. Yes, her job is having sex with other men.

Please do not give up hope just because of your job. You are more then just a "whore", you are a human and deserve the right to try and find happiness. Only you can decide what that happiness is. Just don't go selling yourself short.

OK?

P.S. Feel free to PM me if you want to know how my wife and I made it work.

I really needed someone to be a jerk on here this evening so I could take out some much pent up stress on them.  I do appreciate that you obliged.

I must start be asking you:  Why in the world you would hide such a stellar post behind an alias?  I would have thought you would want the entire board to know just how “Quality” a man you are.  Is it because you are afraid we would build a virtual shrine to you on here and your “humbility” (to quote H. Poirot) prevents such adoration?  That must be it.  It could not possibly be because you are afraid every lady on here would blackball you in 30 seconds for your comment, could it?  No, a “quality” guy like you must be speaks his mind bravely, willing to take the slings and arrows that accompany an honest, unpopular stand.

Now that we have established you are a humble, insightful kind of buffoon, not a common run-of-the-mill buffoon, let us move on to your asinine post itself.

“I am not implying that you not are a fantastic person , lady or human being”
>> Of course you would never imply such a thing!  You are only implying she is a soiled sub-human not worthy of the affection or love of another human being.  At least not a “quality” human being.  She should resign herself right now to looking for love among the lowest dregs of mankind, they are the only ones who have any chance of accepting her from now on.

“QUALITY men or a gentleman just could never wrap his brain around a commited relationship with you type of career.”
>> I personally know at least three truly high quality men who have knowingly married escorts and they have by all observation been excellent wives for them.  I myself have had a long term relationship with one who has more quality (of the good kind) and class that almost anyone else I know, but I will not count that since I do not know if I myself fit your definition of “quality”; actually I hope I do not—I would hate to think I have a strong resemblance to you in any way.

“Our brains are wired differenty and can seperate the 2 very easily.”
>> You know, I have NO problem separate what a lady does for her work from how good a person she is.  YOU seem to be the one who cannot separate the two if you cannot wrap your brain around a committed relationship with a sweet, smart, beautiful lady just because of her line of work.  Do you also discriminate against all women who drive trucks, are forest rangers, or repair telephone cables?  Exactly what kind of careers DO you think a man of “quality” would find acceptable?  Housewife (preferably barefoot and pregnant I assume)?

“You only live once !”
>> Whereas quality men live three or four times?  Is that the point?

“All humans enjoy a compliment - yes even men get flattered . I would suggest NOT to let him know”
>> Yes, you soiled females should learn your role to the hilt!  Do not complement a man (at least not a “quality” man) even if you think it is an honest complement.  Make sure you NEVER flatter him or make him feel good—that has nothing to do with your job as an escort.  In fact, just to be safe you should flog him, humiliate him, and insult him at every opportunity.  THAT is something a quality man can get his head around for sure.

I can not quite state this is the most arrogant post I have ever read (a few years ago there was one that rivaled this) but it is clearly the most arrogant one I have read in years.

There, I feel much better now after a miserable week.  To paraphrase Johnny Hooker from The Sting (such an aptly named person to quote), “It doesn’t make it even, but it’s close”

and you eloquently provide other sides of the coin discourse. Or maybe it's devil’s advocate? This description of a true gentleman is spot on.

With that said, you could do yourself a big, big favor by not interjecting all the personal stuff surrounding your life style in so many threads. And, it is a lifestyle sir. I dare say there might be another person in your same lifestyle perhaps 1 in 10,000. Yes, I am talking about you are married to a hooker (ok SSP), you have come to terms with your wife providing sex to other men (not sure you really in your heart of hearts are 100% able to put it aside), that you make plenty enough money that said hooker wife really does not need to work (how much is plenty, I don't want to guess), you have carte blanche  permission to see all the other hookers you want to from your wife (wow who would not love that, eh), she often picks them out for you (as if you could not do it on your own), you have a son born of this arrangement and a step-daughter from her previous encounter (don't know if she were married so will leave it at that), just how do you two plan on reconciling this with those children.

Look, the above paragraph, though long and boring is your words, nobody else. It is just repeated over and over on this board ad nauseam... yada, yada, yada... and yada, yada, yada. After a while for many members here I suspect it is really getting old. How old? It is old to the point of decomposing in front of our very eyes.

As I lead in here you have been contributing to this board in a good civil discourse, but too often have to expose your personal life into threads uncalled for. State your opinions and move one, argue points like a great lawyer, but do it without the boring personal information and data. If you’ve done it too much, how else would an idiot like me know how to repeat it all verbatim if I had not heard it PLETNY?

He didn't post under an alias. See that little envelope next to his name? It means he is not using an alias.

We know THAT ain't hard! lol!

But seriously, sweety(not you scoed!), the man has a point. And you wouldn't be the only provider to ask him advice on how to make a relationship with a provider work.

He's a sweet guy(yes, now scoed) and always means well. He has a huge heart and you could learn a lot from him about this subject.

BTW, we're ALL whores to a degree!

"Now we shall discuss a possible meaningful relationship for you , Girlfriend , possible wife material maybe. Still with me Sparky ?
I would assume the lady you would choose ,or want to pursue will be someone that you respect , admire and look up to . Much like the qualities you agreed ( or maybe not ) are present in your mother and sister.
Now you find out she is currently a provider - You would be a hypocrite if you feel differently"

No, unlike you I actually can tell the difference between my mother, sister, and potential wife.  But the far, far bigger issue is I see a human being as much more than a list of attributes.  Just because someone is not perfect in every way does not mean I relegate them into a category of "unworthy".  It that was the criteria there would be damn few in the "worthy" pile.  I am willing to be every "quality man" you could name has a flaw of some kind--but in your eyes those flaws, whatever they are, can be overlooked and still keep the "quality" attribute, but being an escort is in your warped way of thinking an unforgivable offense.


"Quality men ( I said Quality ) view things like this and take them into account"

Here, once again, you amazing ego shows through.  Anyone who does not apply the same value judgemets in the same way as YOU is not a "quality" man.  I will disagree with GG, that does not make you a hypocrite, but it does make you arrogant and illogical.

I have been in love with one particular lady for a long time.  She is refined, cutured, tallented, educated, kind, creative, outgoing, generous, and many other things.  I weigh those against a flaw she has (and I am NOT referring to escorting) and on ballance I can very easily "get my head arround" a long term relationship with her.  She is not perfect, but I am very willing to wager that she is a better person than many of the wives/girlfriends of your "quality" men.

IF he had qualified his statement--IF he had said what you said--I would have no problem with that.

But he did not.

And when he tried to explain himself he dug the hole a few feet deeper by making it even clearer to my reading that he did NOt mean the same thing as you did.

If he did indeed suffer only from bad communication, I am sorry.  But all I can go by are the words he posted and I think your interpretation is being very, very, VERY generous.

My bad, I do not know why I missed seeing that.  That part of my post was obviously wrong.

Thanks for pointing that out.

Whether you have fallen in  love through the hobby or through Match.com you are going to have to take risks.  Welcome to finding true love.

I don't necessarily believe that you need to tell him that you are falling head over heels for the man.  But, a simple call, email or even text would seem appropriate in this case to tell him you miss him and wish he were closer.  You could simply thank him for a wonderful time and honestly tell him that you would love for another encounter, and if he presses about fees, then you could offer a discount or even waive a certain part of it, or whatever seems reasonable to you.

Think I am too optimistic and not set in reality?  That's how it worked for me/us.  Five years later, even though we each have led separate lives, survived divorces, raised children, we continue to have a strong relationship that were it not for timing and factors beyond our control, I am sure we would be living together.  We text everyday and email just as often.  We live on either coast.  So, there you go. Not quite Disney, but does tug at my heart nonetheless.

but don't tell him you love him. Just say you're interested and would like to see him again. Then let things take their course. Asking die hard hobbyists on here is probably not the best idea. I'm a total newb and the reason I'm considering taking this plunge is because I work, work, work. Lots of travel too and there's no time to meet anyone. Don't let what you do, or what he did, change your mind. Knowing would be better as you'd have nothing to regret. Go for it. Good luck...

Ce que le baiser ne va pas avec vous?

But that is only because no woman is willing to pay me.

Now if any lady that is clean and safe wants to pay me I would gladly become a whore. I cheap! LOL

Many have missed you. Hope all is well.

there are various kinds of "quality"

the "quality" men that you refer to simply have the quality of being much more concerned about their "image" in a culture which has a substantial history of supporting de facto caste systems based on wealth and an odd view of "purity". it is more important to be socially accepted than genuinely human or even humane. i know some "quality" folks like that. i know some providers who in this little sub culture are also like that.

folks who are captive to their social milieu anoint themselves as being quality. however i find such to be common and ordinary.

the people whom i believe are truly quality care more about the person in front of them than how society judges their associates. while not by any means a Christian, i recall being impressed as a young man by Jesus refusing to disassociate with "fallen women" and tax collectors. i was also impressed by Socrates telling truth to Athens, regardless.

so, pardon me, but i regard those two eminent examples as standards of quality worthy of aspiration. the "quality men" of which you speak are merely fashionable shirts that are stuffed with damp straw. and poorly to boot.

A jerk.  Likely a teenager who thinks this is a great way to show that he is mentally superior to all of us inferior people.

Too bad he thinks a lady's serious post/questionis something to make fun about and insult almost everyone on here one way or another.

.

Not to pop your bubble, but this is a fuck board.  Sometimes the people here use their potty mouth.  I'd suggest you learn to live with it, or you'll be very uncomfortable.  BTW, the two Hitlers here have blocked exactly zero posts by you.  Pretty amazing, given how much time we spend polishing our jack-boots.  Just out of curiosity, did your fellow soldiers in the gulf ever mention friendly fire around you with a gleam in their eye?

A big ol', jiggly, piece of man-meat with a heart of gold, and I wouldn't have you any other way.

Besides, you're easy. You're not cheap.

Hmmm....  Yea, Ally, you have me wondering.  Are some us being too hard on her?  I know I was totally in the 'Time for a Reality Check, Sister!' crowd, but I am having second thoughts.

A lot of the posters here make good points.  Yes, provider/client relationships often fail.  But so do civvie relationships.  Just because some of us (me included) have bittersweet memories maybe doesn't mean we should burn the bridge for everyone before they even get a chance to cross it for themselves.

In my first post in this thread, I described some personal examples where things didn't work out so well for me or girls I was involved with.  My first example was a pretty serious thing.  I really really really love my wife.  But still I also -- even now a few years later -- think about that other woman almost every day.  Sometimes, honestly, I really do lie awake at night thinking about her.  I'll be driving along and start thinking about her and I'll have to turn off the radio because it's disturbing my memories.  My wife notices (and she knows who I'm thinking about, and it's been hard).  Our friends noticed something very different about me.  I changed a lot of my work because of her.  I started working with sex workers because I wanted to make a difference for people like her.  I didn't want other people to make the same mistakes.  You see it in my postings.  I am sort of a dick about professionalism.  I am a hard ass about 'the line'.  Because she crossed it, and I lied to her, and I treated her like...  like... a prostitute.  I used her and then when I was done, when it was time for me to go back to 'real life', that was it.  And I still sort of hate myself for it.  The ghost of this woman who I loved -- still love -- is part of what drives me to participate on these boards.  She haunts me.  

OK, well, now that I got that off my chest...

The point of this is: Not so much now but for a short bit just after that other woman and I said goodbye, I felt compelled to hire other providers but more often than not I couldn't perform with them and would just unload my thoughts instead.  We would talk and talk, often way past my allotted time.  I was truly pathetic. They didn't know exactly what my situation was, but they could clearly see I was in love but conflicted about what to do.  I don't know why they thought I was conflicted, but they told me a lot of happy love stories about prostitutes and former customers.  One girl told me all about how she met her ex-client boyfriend almost a year prior, and how she still fantasizes about him with her customers.  Another girl told me about two of her friends that actually married guys that they met on the job.  They were very happy, one had kids.

So it *can* work.

But predicting that after one date?  With a workaholic who hires prostitutes?  I still think it's worth stepping back and asking yourself what you'd be thinking if his profile on match.com said what you've told us about him.

I don't know you at all.  I really do wish you good luck and loads of happiness.  But like others have said -- Be careful.  Don't get hurt.  He could very well turn out to be an ass like me.  There are a lot of us out there.

If she can appreciate that her man works his ass off for them, who are you to deny her that?

Not to say if they ever hook up for good, but if she gets with a man that takes care of her, and her him, that's up to them.

Whether she is, was a whore or not they have to deal with.

When he works long hours cuz and that's all he knows is up to them to deal with.

She asked for advice. She got a shitload of it. Some good, some bad, some in between.

What she does with it is up to her.

She might be the best thing that came into his life and he's sitting there right now thinking the same thing she is. Might even have read all this fucking crap and sent her an email, phone call, whatever, and they're making plans as we speak.

Are you really that callous? Shit happens in the weirdest of circumstances sometimes. Why should this be any different?

Yeah, it's not likely. But it's not impossible.

Said it before, and I'll say it again. Do it, lady. At least send him a note that you would like to see him again. If he declines, you know.

Other than that, you'll always wonder and it'll drive you crazy. I don't care how much you profess it's 'your job'.

If it was your job, you never would've started this thread.

First -- we largely agree, with some areas of disagreement. But more on that shortly.

I am not at all personalizing the matter. My approach of using myself as an example is to demonstrate that your blanket approach is not universally applicable.

IF I am to believe what providers say on the GD board, they all have a line of clients out the door and are turning away business. Losing a client -- particularly one she has only seen once -- is not a substantial financial risk.

We see the world not necessarily in terms of different facts, but in terms of different priorities. On most of the facts, we pretty much agree. It is how we interpret those facts that differs. I agree that, were you to go on match.com and state outright that you are a prostitute; most men -- including a lot of very worthwhile ones -- would skip right over you no matter your other redeeming qualities.

But let me ask you a question: Should they?

I agree that what you say is true in terms of how people would judge you harshly. Though for different reasons, I have been judged with equal harshness. And I know what it feels like to be judged to be essentially evil -- even when throughout my life I have used my skills for a greater good.

So my question is: SHOULD they judge you harshly?

I say they should not. Reality is that many will, of course. But I believe you should keep your mind open to the fact that some men exist who aren't out to use/abuse you. If you run around with what is essentially a prejudice against any man who is accepting of you, you automatically create an environment that will continue to re-affirm and repeat negative experiences rather than open you to the positive. Thus, I disagree with your advice because I see it as perpetuating a cycle of cynicism. Certainly, it is true that if you encourage people to take no risks they will never experience emotional pain from those risks -- but they will also not experience the emotional rewards.

I think, to some extent, the reason why I am more accepting than most men comes from the fact I am used to being prejudicially condemned by ignorant people and go out of my way not to do it to others. Furthermore, as a person who has stood WAY further outside of accepted social norms than you will hopefully ever stand, to me, the fact a woman is a prostitute is a pretty minor thing.

In fact, I have noticed an interesting trend of men currently or previously in my particular line of work being disproportionately accepting of sex workers -- even though by and large we are "top 1%" type guys in many respects. I think this is because we have a different view of social norms generally, and because in the grand scheme of things, if I have blown up a bunch of people it would be utter hypocrisy for me to give you shit about giving them a bj. I am quite certain that, given the choice between confronting you or me, those now-dead people would have preferred you every time.

I posted to this thread because my BFF, who happens to be an escort, specifically called it to my attention. There's no harm in my participating in a discussion in which I have direct experience to contribute that may be helpful to others. I'm not trolling for dates.

But let me return to this in a different way; and I'm going to be harsh while largely agreeing with you. In spite of the fact I am a bit of an idealist and don't think you SHOULD be judged adversely, the simple fact is that you are. As a result, MOST men -- no matter their value -- will have no interest in you as a romantic partner. Those that remain will likely disproportionately be at best socially inept, and at worst users and abusers.

And, in fact, I have noticed the same pattern that you have. I have had escorts as friends of whose boyfriends I was frankly appalled. I practically laugh when providers post about how superior their civie boyfriends are to hobbyists, because I have seen plenty of serious losers among the boyfriends of providers. Who in the heck are these women trying to fool? Kudos to you for having the balls to say it, albeit in different words.

HOWEVER -- with as much contact as you have had with men, by now you should have developed good enough "scumbag radar" to weed these guys out. Throw out the dross -- and see what remains. It is my belief that a woman of your experience and intelligence should be able to separate them out. And don't expect me to believe these guys are all a bunch of super geniuses. Odds are 90%+ that you are smarter than any man you date, PLUS the fact that as a woman you are likely more emotionally intelligent than them by a country mile.

So dating scumbags may have been subconscious self punishment. It's kind of like you adding 12+7 and telling me the answer is 17. Sorry -- that cat's out of the bag -- you are highly intelligent and seriously perceptive. You can't use ignorance as an excuse. If you say the answer is 17 -- you can't blame incompetence. Something else is at work.

Oh yes, it would be a LOT easier to get a man when you are no longer a provider, and from whom you can hide the fact (or think you can hide the fact) that you have previously had sex with 1200 guys and he is lucky # 1201.

But let me tell you something else I have noticed. I have noticed a lot of former providers in therapy, having marital problems and all kinds of stuff -- and their prior occupation being discovered by the deceived hubby. So don't count on being able to completely put that behind you. Hopefully you can when the time comes, but maybe you can't. There's no telling until the rubber hits the road.

My advice further down, for the lady to go ahead and make her approach is really based on hope. Yes, I admit, she is disproportionately likely to get a scumbag. (And HE is disproportionately likely to get a gold-digging, hyper-materialistic consumerist who sees him only as an ATM -- even as a civie.)  HOWEVER, if she is half as smart and perceptive as you, she SHOULD be able to figure that out. And hopefully he can tell the difference too.

So instead of telling her, essentially, "no way, because you are gonna fail" imho, better advice would be on how to distinguish and weed out the users/abusers.

I agree, often there is a phenomenon where providers are really just crying out for approval and it twists their judgment such that they will tolerate men who should be intolerable. And then they go whining and crying about how bad the men were when they should (and frankly DID) know better.

But here's the thing.

We all deserve to be loved and accepted on our own terms. There is a drive for this that is every bit as powerful as the drives that bring men to your door. Providers are going to do it anyway!

It isn't helpful to tell them to deny something so powerful. It isn't going to work.

Instead, since they are going to do it anyway, I would say to give them advice on how to do it BETTER so that they get better men than you did.

The advice you are giving is akin to the folks who don't want condoms made available to teens because they fear it will cause teens to have sex. The teens are going to have sex anyway, just as they have since the dawn of time! So rather than preach abstinence from emotional involvement, I am saying you should instead provide tools for safer emotional involvement.

Don't send a decent man away from you on an automatic presumption of his unworthiness just because he likes you. Grab him, because tomorrow either of you could be hit by a bus. I hope it doesn't happen, of course -- but life IS short. If you have a chance to be loved, I say you should grab it.

I understand there is a disproportionate risk of pain. Our priorities differ. I would rather risk getting a cold from dancing in the rain. You'd rather not get the cold because -- well -- colds suck, and you are right about that.

But I'll drink your ass off, and take a Mensa test after the fact.

Think you'll be surprised by the scores.

In any case, booksmart and streetsmart are entirely two different things.

Would loooove to take said wise-ass with me down to the South Valley where I live and turn his ass loose on the locals.

All by himself? Shiiit!

If I gave a fuck about him, I'd take him to the hospital to plug the holes they'd put in his fucking ass.

If you think you feel too uncomfortable giving him a freebie session, you can always say 'had a good time last session, I'm offering you a special 50% discount'.  Let's see if he bites, and then get your tentacles on to him LOL.

If the lady can get his man to relax and forget about Easter Sunday, then she's doing him some good about staying about from being a workaholic. . She's got a shot at it.

I knew the response before it was written.  I've had the calls before and resulting tearful calls later on when things turned dark... too many times to count.   Each has to learn on their own.  I think it's rare for most men to transition from seeing us as escorts to girlfriend good enough to meet Mom.  

I wish you the best though.  There are always those who beat the odds.  I still feel it's unfair to break the basic rule we're hired for in the first place and that is to remain unattached emotionall and when the date ends, we .................... LEAVE

I bet nobody ever thought they would here those words from me. lol

Of course my apology is actually directed at every person that has ever acheived a "technical degree" rofl

If he pays for coochie....what makes you think......YOU DONT FALL IN LOVE WITH CUSTOMERS....THATS WHY THEY DONT TAKE ALOT OF PROVIDERS SERIOUS NO MORE!  HE IS A CLIENT...GET OVER IT.

Let's look at this from the perspective of evolutionary psychology. Specifically, let's look at some politically incorrect truths; one of which is that most of human history was spent polygamously, which is the origin of the difference in upper body strength between men and women. (http://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/200706/ten-politically-incorrect-truths-about-human-nature?page=2)

Serial monogamy is a woman's natural reproductive strategy (http://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2009/08/serial-monogamy-and-women.html) whereas polygamy is a man's evolved reproductive strategy.

This means that men evolved with the capacity to love more than one woman -- not just fuck them, but actually love them.

For a variety of reasons, most notably social stability because huge numbers of unattached males with poor breeding prospects tend to create problems for the ruling classes whereas married men with mortgages who are trying desperately to please their wives are not very volatile (as reflected in auto insurance rates); over the past 1k-2k years monogamy has become the accepted norm as established by Middle Eastern monotheistic religions adopted by various rulers because it suited their purposes.

So monogamy helped to make societies more stable while helping to secure the continuation of the existing power structures.

However, it comes at a price. Actually, it comes with many price tags, but I'm only going to go into one of them.

Women are hypergamous -- they want the best. Some women who are psychologically unhealthy go for nasty men who mistreat them and so forth; but by and large women want the best man. (Women tend to concentrate more on quality whereas men tend to focus more on quantity; though in any individual case this rests on a continuum.)

Because women want the best man; and by definition 99.9% of men are NOT "the best" -- most women in a monogamous society end up accepting men that are suboptimal compared to their desires. As a result, they consider those men to "owe" them -- and one very convenient expectation because it goes along perfectly with the predominantly Christian moral views promulgated by converted rulers, is that the man go 180-degrees contrary to his nature and be monogamous. (Meanwhile, women are not paragons of virtue, as even with ubiquitous birth control available, 10% of kids born to married couples are the result of the wife's infidelity -- usually with a man of higher social status.)

Okay -- so here you are. You are entirely capable of loving more than one woman without the love for one in any way diminishing the love you have for the other.

Why is this a problem?

It is a problem for two reasons:

1. One of those women considers your exercise of that natural capacity to constitute betrayal because she feels she got the short end of the stick to start with

2. You have accepted and internalized the dominant secularized Christian sexual ethic; thereby creating a cognitive dissonance in that what you FEEL is very different from what you believe is RIGHT to feel. Thus you become wracked with guilt.

Love, in a sense, is a response to values -- a natural reaction to seeing our highest values manifested in another person. It is NOT an obligation to act on that feeling -- but rather is just payment that is duly earned by the recipient. Thus, withholding it is unjust.

Obviously, sometimes pre-existing obligations, desire not to hurt the innocent and so forth can cause us to have to make hard choices. But at least consider that those hard choices would never have to be made if we had not codified a whole series of expectations contrary to our evolutionary design.

To me, when you say 'quality men could never wrap his brain around this type of career' .. seems to me like guys who are puritanical hypocrites or who have high noses.

...the boy is about as opaque as cellophane.  his writing style is distinctive, to say the least!

"In a perfect world, I'd have her out in the near-wilderness too busy raising our half-dozen children to maintain any provider presence. But that's a fantasy for another day. "

what a tease! :p

You're so clever! I'm impressed!
Great "walk of shame"!

You thought that changing your moniker would disassociate your board presence from your prior posts!
As if everyone wouldn't immediately recognize your stupidity anyway.

Sorry, but you're stuck with your permanent  stupidity the rest of your life.
The stench of your stupidity will follow you like stink follows a skunk.
Stupid is as stupid does.

If you try very hard, you may be able to overcome your hypocrisy, arrogance, and hubris.
Too bad you can't fix stupid!

Agreed.

Thanks.  I'll try this argument on my wife

fall in love with each other many many times. It seldom works out, but as scoed can attest it does occasionally work out.

Leave off the yelling just on general principles.

Oh, and on top of easing up on the all caps, try using better grammar and spelling to get your point across ("don't," "a lot," and "any more").

I don't see how it becomes a prerequisite for a man to have to compromise the quality of their life or livelihood to love and commit to an active prostitute. I never had to make any such compromise. Furthermore, one might say to live without the person you love is a greater compromise than any other.  

There are not many men without "issues" or baggage who date providers - correction, there are NO men without issues or baggage - period. You can not live in this world without picking up baggage along the way, lest you confine yourself to the bed with the covers pulled tightly over your head for the duration of your natural existance. That's life.

Certainly that baggage exists to varying degrees depending on how said individual deals with that baggage, or at least becomes adept at keeping the skeletons neatly packed away in a box rather than chaotically strewn about all over the closet floor. If we had no issues of our own how ever could we empathize with all of the issues that YOU gals have? My SO need not hide her stripper shoes from the likes of me, she can set them right next to my bong, which rests atop the porn collection, beside the brown paper bag filled with drug money which conceals the unregistered Glock .40.  

The implication that guys who date hookers are inherently douche bags not only says something about those of us who have, but about all providers as well, does it not? That one damaged human being is drawn to another? But couldn't it just be as simple as two unconventional people who've resisted the brainwashing of religious conformity and have no trouble making the distinction between sex and love are happy to have found someone else who gets it?    

What your agency friend may have been telling you, in fact, if you read between the lines is that YOU are a piece of work, if that logic holds up. Could be, I don't know you, but perhaps they just have YOU...and ME...and many others who've been in that boat, completely fucked up. What makes them the guru of hooker love, running an agency? Maybe they're projecting, and need to check their own baggage...just sayin.

"Who do you know who wants to introduce his girlfriend or wife, the prostitute, at a family function, in social or professional circles?"

Who said she had to be introduced as "the prostitute"? IMO that would be a step up from, hey, this is my wife, the K-Mart night manager. She also snores, sings badly in the shower, and sticks her chewing gum under the table when she's finished with it. Is it common for people to divulge information about their spouse which would cause their SO embarrassment or at the very least, awkwardness? Not in my experience.

For my part, I could care less how that knowledge skewed peoples perception of me. Everyone I know has too many issues of their own to ever be the judge of me or mine...people in glass houses and all that; e.g EVERYBODY.

I'm not oblivious to the stigma's that exist and never presumed to be the holder of the key to her secrets. She shared that information with who she felt comfortable with and was free to do so as she saw fit, not fearing for anyones perception of me - as some sucka who lays up with a broad who gets dicked down for a living. Poor me. Pfffft. Haters only hate what they can't get and who they can't be.

When lies and misdirection were called for, even if for no other reason than for her to be able to hold her head up in certain circles, so be it. I'll play. Everyone is a liar on some days, but on most days, people can simply be told to stay the fuck out of others business.    

As for the machinations of other men, that's only comic relief to a secure man. If you have a bad ass chick, every guy under the sun is going to be trying to slide into your shoes, that's how the game goes. Don't like it, then date a fugly. Should I really be worried about a guy who can't even get a whiff without dropping an envelope...or the metro sexual Fabio looking dude she calls her "friend" who keeps his eyes glued on her ass every time she turns around? Meh. If you trust your girl you have no need to trust the men that covet her.

It's not that I disagree with you on the point that the OP's emotional energy is wasted on a presumably hopeless situation, but I have a little trouble with the logic you used to get there.

My primary motive there is to put your guilt in perspective.

It's not like you abducted children and sold their organs on the black market and used that money to purchase a sex slave that you abused.

The fact that your wife reacts as though that is what you did notwithstanding, a more objective frame of reference can put your guilt in perspective.

I could put my text through a translator that translated to a foreign language and then translate it back. That would disguise my style. Unfortunately, the translators suck. The first sentence in this paragraph translated to German and back looks like this: "I could mean text by a translator would drive through, that translated to a foreign language and then back translates it."

This is why I can sleep at night, and can tolerate this whole life style. Amen to your while post.