It's important, especially when having kids together, and if you have assets and property together, to have expert advice as to what you're in for when getting a divorce. Child custody issues are especially thorny. Then see about meeting with a relationship expert, for yourself, but even with your spouse. A good therapist can help both of you see why it is that the relationship didn't work out; and who is truly responsible for what parts, rather than placing blame at each others feet. This takes a lot of the bitterness out of the process, and reduces acts of punishment or retribution, hence making it less painful on everyone involved.

...the DVD's of In Treatment & watch it w/your soon to be divorced wife.

http://www.hbo.com/in-treatment/about/index.html

Rule number one make sure you have enough money set aside for divorce lawyers. It could cost $50,000 in lawyer costs just for you if things are nasty.

It might be best until after the kids turn 18. In some states they will make you pay for the kids college so be careful you might have to wait until they graduate after college.

Be careful about money in joint accounts. because if too much money is missing you could be required to pay it back.

Make sure your wife has a job.

Get separate accounts.

Be careful if you are in a common law state like Colorado. I know one guy who has to pay 90% of his check to his wife in Alimony !!!

Hey Team,
Relatively new to the board (membership-wise), but a LONG time hobbyist.....
Marriage is crappy and going on year 7, just wanted some input from fellow hobbyists on how to break it off when we have 2 little kids (4/2 involved)?
Any good advice?   seems emotionally rough...

to go to marriage counseling "unless she agrees to go as well. No point otherwise." Though would not truly be marriage counseling, a good relationship or family counselor can help him better relate to his children as the family goes through the divorce. Parents tend to say things in front of their kids that are not appropriate, and tend to pull on their allegiances, making them take their side against other parent. Learning how not to use the kids for his own personal needs, especially his esteem needs, and to know what topics and information are appropriate or inappropriate to discuss with his kids can be extremely important.

Some marriages need to end.  Marriage counselors, or better yet, psychotherapists, can help you end your marriage in a way that is best for your young children, and for you and your wife.

Or, perhaps, if it is your wish, you can work on saving the marriage.  Whatever your decision, best wishes.  

First we (ex & I) when the cheap route.  Total waste of time & energy.   Marriage was sour before it started (I had warnings & should have backed out but was the loyal & in love party...  she was not, it turns out).  As things disintergrated, I moved out, sought out "high priced" but high quality psychologist.  I went alone, she went (actually showed up), I went again.  I expected at some point, that we'd do joint meetings.  It never happened.  
Soon to be ex, told councilor the truth (that'd she never told me) that she didn't want to be married to me.  My third appointment was very brief.   I had a great support system of friends who let me vent but who had invested in counciling themselves.  Over time I moved on.  But again, I thankfully had no children.  You DO.  

This is one place to get the very best...  counciling.   You need to work through your feelings & decision.   Your wife should do the same...  mostly parellel.  There may be joint sessions.  Each of you needs to look at the range of choices about when your life can go...  and see if there is an overlap or not.  A good councilor should be a great listener...  a sounding board...  but should not tell you what to do.  Rather, let you talk & then ask you questions.  You will decide your own mind.  Really I think you already know.  But sometimes how you approach this may make all the difference.  I suggest you commit to doing this right...  even if this means stopping or cutting back on hobbying for now...  

I did much better the second time around...  that is until her hormones shut off.  
Best wishes,
skb

As long as you two are not physically endangering yourselves or wasting money replacing objects lost in fights, you might want to consider getting seperate rooms and pretending to be married for the kids sake.  Not their fault, right?

It's what I'm doing.  Mine are 8 and 5.  Figure I have 13 years, then I can tell the wench I'll see her in hell, take my stuff, and move to somewhere much more fun and inviting!

Until then... well, we're here after all, right?

Regardless of what you do, it is going to be messy and you will end up with lot less money. You are lot better off by taking the advise and grinning and bearing until your kid reach age. One added benefit, you get to see your kids and able to do things with them and make sure they are raised by you and your wife instead of your wife and her future whomever.

i'm trying to figure out the same stuff.  i've dated people who claim they're damaged by their parents sticking together, whatever.  sounds like the OP really cares about the kids, plenty of guys have no clue and couldn't even form the question.  very hard stuff.

you can assess how to move forward.  Your first step (and not listening to the somewhat incredulous advice some of these guys are throwing at you) is to speak with a divorce attorney (not your buddy the real estate attorney, or Jim Bob who got divorced last year..but a professional who knows your State laws in and out).  Gather the information you need from them and perhaps seek a second opinion (this might seem assinine and expensive, but you do want to have the most information so you can make an informed decision moving forward).

Do this by yourself and see how the options lay out.  You might want to also discuss with your financial professional (if you indeed own your own business talk to your CPA) and also get their input on how life might look given the information you have ascertained from your legal representation.  Again, laws vary from State to State regarding child support as well as alimony (maintenance), as well as your sources of income may fluctuate as time moves on.

Be smart and careful how you move forward.  You have much to lose if you shortcut this (two kids who will be missing you and vice versa).  

Hopefully you and the ex will learn how to coexist as some type of unit.  All you can do is your best and, I hope that all does turn out well for you.

Exactly the same situation as mine. I have one kid and my wife's a homemaker.
However, she's not a wench... and I don't hate her, but I don't love her either because of personality conflicts.
I guess that just like you I've to bear this suffocation for 13-15 more years.
One thing I wonder is that whether I'll be able 2 save for the kid's college after pursuing this expensive hobby.

And I say this as someone who's working on his second divorce.  You have no idea where you'll stand financially unless you do this.  It may give you pause, as most of your assumptions are probably wrong.  I also think you should find the best possible marriage counselor, assuming you think there's anything left to save.  But don't bother unless she agrees to go as well.  No point otherwise.  As for staying together for the kids, I guess it's OK for some but I wouldn't recommend it.  The tension of a bad relationship will be obvious to them and can be at least as harmful as an open split.  Anyway, good luck.

I would never advise someone to skip counseling  altogether.  And no doubt some advice like the kind you suggest can't hurt.  But it also can't help save the relationship unless both parties are involved.  In fact, I've been through years of marriage counseling and, while it has helped, it doesn't look like it has saved the marriage.

I guess I am just a jerk then.  I plan to drop them off at the recruiter's on their 18th birthday.  It is how I paid for college!

if you would be interested in a woman's opinion who has been there here it is.

There is no easy way to break off a marriage. A lot of parents stay together because they think that is what's best for the kids. Parents fail to realize that when they aren't happy, the kids know it. Knowing that the parents aren't happy does a lot to a child's state of mind. It makes them worry and wonder if it is because of something that they did.

I would go to your wife and say something like:

"Honey, we have had our issues for a while now. I feel that we are setting a bad example for our children by teaching them that just because there are children in the picture that means 2 people must stay together and be miserable. We don't want our kids to grow up thinking that they have to stay in a bad situation just for their children. We should want them to be able to make the mature decision to realize that they are in a toxic relationship and that continuing on would only hurt the kids more."

Of course there is going to be tears and pain, but better that than the kids thinking that marriage is all about hate.

good luck!

I appreciate everyone who reached out and nice to know there's guys / girls who have been and are going thru the same thing, so I know not just me.
We have done counseling twice (2 different ones), and nothing changes....

Our BIGGEST problem is she has an adopted 10 yr old we have been sharing (I didn't adopt) since she was 2 and this kid is a "fucking" terror because my wife has no hair on her bush when it comes to discipline, so this kid has walked all over her, screams, kicks doors, kicked a hole in our wall, and she just grounds her or still argues with her like a grown ass adult and where MY tension has come from and built up, is EVERY time I have stepped in to discipline this kid or spank her, I get blocked by her saying "you can't leave a welt (spanking), or that's too harsh a punishment, etc" so over 7 yrs, it's built up to where I hate the 10 yr old and REALLY resent my wife for emasculatiing me by telling me what I can / can't do.   She doesn't get it, like most women (no offense to anyone), but doesn't get how that makes a man feel.  

So, now I'm pissed cause my 2 biological kids see these screaming matches and I hate it, so that's why I've posted here.    No magical answer I know from anyone, but just wanted to seek some validation that either I'm an a-hole and need to lighten up OR I am right in feeling this way....

Thanks ALL!

I hear ya bro..

Similar situation.

My wife had 3 kids from previous marriage, which I adopted shortly after marriage.  

We then had 3 more kids together.

Things started out really great, awesome family time. however over time the wife drives wedges between me and the older kids, basically to the point where it is pointless to try to do anything with them because every action gets backdoored by the wife or her parents.  My wife's parents spoiled her, and she is wanting to spoil her kids, which of course I am opposed to.  Nothing wrong with teaching kids responsibility and work ethic.

So far the 3 kids I added to the marriage still really get along with me, but the influence from the older kids trickle down.

I'd love to take my 3 younger kids and never deal with the rest of them again. They have no appreciation for what is provided for them.  Plus they are getting a horrible example of marriage and family life.

Been debating divorce for a while.   Best case I would end up with majority custody of my 3 kids, which I would do in a heartbeat.  Worse case I would loose custody and barely see them.   So do I put up with with the current bad  situation and know I can continue living with my kids, or do I risk the divorce proceedings and either get my kids or loose them?  

No easy choices either way.

how much each parent is willing to work with the other in the logistics of tag team parenting.

But, what is truly sad are the couples who stay together for the kids, but are unwilling to work on their marriage in order to stay together for the kids. Many couples would truly be surprised at how much their relationship can improve, and their positive feelings for each other restored, through getting good professional help.

Once you decide why you are doing what you are doing, there is no tension. Tension arises from going back and forth on your decision in every case, not just this. You the same to your SO then you go do what you like doing.

Many men and women for that matter want it both ways, that is a perfect SO. Unfortunately no such person exists anywhere in this world. This is a common practice in many other countries, especially in most parts of Asia and some parts of Western and Eastern Europe. Here it is all or nothing attitude which gets you in trouble.

jknice:  I knew someone who adopted wife's kids...  They divorced & he ended up paying support for someone else's kids.  

I believe everthing I wrote above about counciling.  HOWEVER, you also need to get a good attorney.  In the meantime...  you need to identify all your assets.  Any bank accounts will be searched & even hidden ones discovered in a court ordered discovery.  Any paper US Savings bonds will not show beyond the year purchased, until they are cashed.   Safety deposit boxes can get opened.  Hiding cash can work if you have a secure place...  forget interest, you want to preserve the principal.    
Locate & secure deeds & titles, important documents like tax returns...  you will have to produce them but don't trust that they'll not disappear.  (A friend discovered that his ex had taken all the tax returns & stuffed the envolupes with newspaper.  He was cited for contempt for not producing them.  The newspaper dates were the same as the dates she was in the house.  Her lawyer asked questions he only would have known if she had the tax returns.  It backfired when he did bring the stuffed envolupes...  the judge was not amused!)   You need money to live and cash can be gradually accumulated.  
Do not leave excess funds in a joint account.  You'll have to account for them but don't let them disappear.  A real danger exists in Credit Cards...  a possible binge on your tab.   I do not know how to legally restrict them...  perhaps a Q for the legal board.    

Don't try to screw her over but don't let it be done to you either!
skb

PS Don't worry about the kids college.  Fully fund your retirement, they can't go after that, though you can tap it if needed.  Paper Savings bonds don't show.  Don't use a College fund...  the colleges figure to depleat them in 3 years & reduce financial aid.   The kids will qualify for more finiancial aid.   We're not rich.  Our kids got Fin Aid...  and somehow we always came up with the parent's share.  Remember you must preposition your funds.  FASA uses last year's tax info so need to be ready when the child in a Senior in HS.

Bro. I feel you.

I've had a lawyer on retainer for 9 years. I have two: 13 and 9. I opted not to file to guarantee my little one got to know me. That time has come. Nothings gotten better and in fact, I thought I'd become numb to it but all that happens is your self esteem takes a beating when you knowingly stay in a toxic relationship. To make matters worse, you kids know it. Most kids don't remember too many facts about growing up but they do remember how they felt. And if tensions are always high, it will affect them. My little one came to me the other day just to tell me that if I divorced Mommy, she would be sad but would understand and be ok! WOW! Yesterday, the 13 yr old asked me if I was getting a divorce. If these things are going on, you'd think I'd have enough sense to pull the trigger. Well that time has finally come. The little ones birthday is in a few weeks and I will file after. Why ruin her birthday.

Here is the kicker, at least for me...I've been married 13 years and the new laws put long term marriages at 17. Long term means alimony until they remarry or die. I think she'll take the latter over remarrying. I'll be damned if I'm gonna pay out that long.

Hobbying is a great way to burn off some steam and get some attention you don't at home. But you can't hide forever.

Always check yourself first and make sure your side of the street is clean before you go on the offensive. Nothing sucks more than having a plan backfire especially when their are kids involved. Money...well you and I both can always make more.

Peace!