Have noticed that some clients press for my real name.  Would it be helpful to encourage that they use a fantasy name as well? would it make the fantasy moreso a fantasy and thus more  comfortable for them?  Hopefully eliminating the need for them to press?  

Perhaps they feel that after my screening and getting their real names, that they are too much on the line. Or that hearing me and other escorts "cry out" their real name is too disturbing ...

Just trying to find a better way in the interest of keeping things fantasy when they should stay that way.

what does anyone else think?

thank you.




-- Modified on 12/31/2001 12:30:15 AM

I suggest that you ask those clients for their reason and discuss it with them.  If you can't or would rather not have that kind of direct conversation, then I'd suggest that you make up a real name.

Rather than asking us to speculate whether your clients are disturbed by crying out their real name, I suggest you ask them.  Some will, some won't.  Offer them a choice.

sounds  like you ask me to do what I've been doing, but I was out here trying to get a consensus from the real clients - you guys. And the ladies if they will answer...

So...am I in the wrong place?

Sometimes it's a lonely business and a discussion board helps let people know they are not alone...

so I thought.

thank you for your thoughts and consideration.





-- Modified on 12/30/2001 10:10:01 PM

If I understand you correctly, my answer is that I would rather hear my own name cried out ("Oh Sedagive, you're the best") mainly because I always play me in my fantasies.  Sedagive.

I was suggesting that you discuss it with the specific clients that brought up the issue (pressed you for your name).  What did they say was the reason they wanted it?  

It's ok to ask here, but I'm not sure a consensus would help that much since each person is an individual.  That's why I suggested talking with each guy on a case by case basis.

My own feeling is that knowing your real name would give me a feeling of trust and intimacy with you, but I would never press you for it.  And I don't mind hearing my own name from a provider.  But again, YMMV.

thank you sedagive .. i read things on this board by many men who talk about Addictions to providers as well as not wanting to give out their own  names, be screened, etc. My own personal experience, being pressed for my real name, I thought that perhaps it was about the playing field being leveled. Clients could reveal their names for screening purposes, but perhaps prefer to be called by their pseudonym, as is done in acting to stay in character, to eliminate this blurring of fantasy/reality, and heightening awareness when such is explicitly chosen.  

Just an attempt to make things more comfortable.  Having been in acting, i realize that a fantasy can often be better kept in character by using pseudonyms.

Am I somehow  being abstract or obtuse here? Of course I expect free speaking.  

Sedagive, if you had a seriously ridiculous name I'm not sure i would want to call it out, lol, but frankly I would make up my own for you.  I sometimes would prefer using a client pseudonym which would remind us both that we are keeping character.  Then said client wouldnt have to tell me he is having all sorts of problems getting addicted to me in the real world.

thanks


-- Modified on 12/31/2001 12:22:34 AM

Dear Linkmeister...thank you for responding back.  The reasons why clients do this of course vary from sublime curiousity to a voracious angst to feel trusted. It just got to a point where I felt I wanted to bring it to light.

So it got me to thinking...Why the need, is it because I screen and clients feel exposed?  Must some feel so powerless in this incestuous morass that they need to have something "real" on me because I have their name and now their money?  Is there a way to make this less painful for clients?  Or is this requisition of a provider's real name, as you seem to indicate, truly an aberration?  

I hae asked, but do you think that an embarrassed client is going to always tell me the truth? If I press him during a liason, he might retaliate....

Anyhow I dont think this is so unusual.  I have chatted with  scores of ladies over a period of time.

Thought I would throw it on the table where there seems to be little at personal stake here on a discussion board.  Thanks for your time and your honest answers.  It helps.

Happy New Year Linkmeister )





-- Modified on 12/31/2001 12:19:15 AM

Girly, it's a fair question to ask, and find your premise interesting, but very different from my personal feelings on the subject.  

Let me just say, this "working name" thing only bothered me when I first started seeing providers- now I'll call you anything you want and not really care unless we are becoming real friends.  But my reasons had nothing to do with fantasy, at least not in the way you suggest.

I'm not into fantasy with providers.  I'm not married, so I don't have to play any games.  When I see an escort I treat her as I would any woman I'm dating.  I'm interested in getting to know her so I can relate to her as a person.  It makes the sex more enjoyable, more real, which is my objective.  For me, sex is about a man and a woman relating in the most intimate way possible- yes, even a client and provider.  As a result, I'm not into role playing, game playing or fantasy scenarios, or fantasy names.

The fake name is a deception (even if we all know the reasons), and the more deception I can eliminate, the more honest and enjoyable the encounter can be.  For me, intimacy is related to honesty, and knowing with whom you are having sex is the most basic form of honesty.  Some guys don't care, I used to, but have gotten over it.  I just can't call some woman "Spice"  with a straight face.

I don't expect a lady to tell me her real name the first time we meet, but if we hit it off and I become a regular, they always do.  I know my experiences on this are different than most guys because I don't go for quantity, but rather prefer to see a small number of women whose company I really enjoy and whom I consider friends over time.  

So it has nothing to do with screening (you know me, therefore, I should know you) it's just a matter of trying to make you something more than an anonymous f*ck to me.  If you read my last post on the Erotic Highway board, you'll see why I think that is important.

I think my view on this is that I won't tell the client my real name until after his second visit and only if he asks me.  But then I'm in a different area on this one because everyone calls me Red and never says my real name.  My friends have called me Red for years before I was ever a provider.  I just prefer Red to my real name. My real name is too much of a mouthfull anyways.
I'm a southern Lady, so I have two first names. Its just easier to say Red.  

My 2 cents,

RED

I definitely feel that when the lady gives me the real name, it shows a level of trust that means she'd like to have me as a regular, and have a deeper level of intimate communication than just an anonymous fuck.  

I'm also single, so I don't have any identity concerns on my side of the equation either.  

I generally don't persue the lady's real name myself, (unless I want to travel with her, and I need it to buy plane tickets) but I always enjoy it when it is volunteered to me, as it tells me that there is a level of trust there that is beyond me being just any old client.  

It's been my experience that most (but certainly not all) ladies that I've seen have given me the real name by the end of our 2nd or 3rd encounter - but most of my provider dates are quite a bit longer than an hour.

real friends. If she feels comfortable doing that, fine. If not, fine too. I understand both sides. Does it sometimes make us closer? Yes. Sometimes too close, but it is not the only way to near or cross that line. Women who do it with everyone are fools. Just like all providers can't be trusted, neither can all Johns (ain't that what we are?). Each of us must determine how "real" we want to PLAY, and how real we really want to GET. Of course, I have no common sense as proven by my actions, not my words.  Both sides, be careful. Not is all that it seems.

I probably shouldnt be so surpised that so many are up seemingly all night, but isn't it tonight that is New Year's Eve, lol?  Happy New Year everybody!

I appreciate the responses.  

I also neglected to mention that part of what I find disturbing about all this is the number of clients who  tell me about another escort (I dont want to hear these things anyway) then casually throw in that "and her real name is blah blah blah."  What is up with THAT?  

I like what linkmeister said ... make up a real name. I did start to do that, actually made up a nickname.  I ike Red's solution.  Unless, like dman states, tickets for the airlines are involved, there should not be a problem with making up a name.  Sounds like that would make everyone feel better and put the escort at less  risk.

How simple the soluton. I just felt so alone about after feeling betrayed. Guess I dont need to use anymore bandwidth on this one.

Thanks all.

G2 I did read your touching your post on the Erotic Highway.  I can relate.





-- Modified on 12/31/2001 7:09:25 AM

This is one little white lie that is not so harmless as you think.  Because it implies that you are trying to deceive me into THINKING that there is some type of honest communication going on, when in fact there is not.  I mean, it will pretty much defeat the purpose of it when/if we become aware that it is NOT the real name.  If that happens, I certainly won't trust you nearly as much as if you tell me in a straightforaward manner that you would rather not give me your real name.  I can absolutely respect that position, and it won't be an issue.  Making up a "real" name for me will lead me to believe that you are trying to play me, and it is far more dishonest than to simply keep the veil of anonymity that is the starting point in any escort/client relationship.

In all honesty, I usually don't need to know unless there is a reason, such as airline tickets involved.  If you then have to tell me that the original "real" name in fact wasn't, then I GUARANTEE you that I shall not be buying those plane tickets, because I can't trust you enough to travel with you.

What I find disturbing is that clients are "pressing you" for your name, or anything.  I have never asked for a real name, but have been given it several times, usually after a period of trust (in one case after a year).  If I do ask for something, and a provider declines, I understand no means no.  (even if someone else got a yes)

If I may just add a personal note about "pressing"...  It doesn't work.  I used to press my wife for sex, and the more I pressed the less I got.  By the way, pressing can be very subtle too.  Fortunately I discovered this hobby to relieve some of the pressure in me and my marriage, and it's going much better.  I can't thank TER and the wonderful providers I've met enough.

The strategy of making up a real name is intended for those that insist and pressure her, and won't take no for an answer.  Ideally it would start with "I'd rather not", and if pressed further, use a made up name.

There are two types of reasons for the real name.  One is because the LADY genuinely does trust the client, and perhaps wants a little bit more interraction than the anonymous relationship allows.  That's fine.  And providing the actual real name should only be done on the lady's genuine trust of the guy, and hopefully, he's already given her some indication that he's worthy of this level of trust.  The other, which involves the client pressuring the lady for this info (as opposed to simply asking for it) is one in which a red flag should start to get raised in any case.

It's my view that someone who is pressuring the lady for the identity, and won't take NO for an answer, is moving into potential stalker / harrassment territory.  The worst thing that a lady can do in that situation is to escalate it, which is in fact what the fake "real" name does.  The consequences here, when a stalker gets a whiff of promise, and then has that promise betrayed, could escalate all the way to physical harm.  I think that the right answer if the lady doesn't trust the guy enough to want to initiate this, is to politely, yet firmly decline.  If the guy is insistant enough to threaten not to see her over it, that should be a MAJOR warning flag, and the lady should stop seeing him if that is the alternative presented to her.

Dear G2,

It is curious to me that a hobbyist would want to know a provider's real name, this is something I would never ask for, and not care to know even if it was volunteered.  From a privacy perspective, providers are already at enough risk without having to give out real information.  Yes, you can get to know a provider, and develop trust, but you are doing her a disservice if you need to share real information to feel good about your session.  In the end, IMHO when you pay for sex, it's fantasy, it's a game, it's playing a role--no amount of disclosure can change that, and only adds risk.  Stalkers need real info, hobbyists don't.

I would argue that the desire to remove the layers of "deception", is just another type of fantasy.  G2,  it appears that you try to make patronizing prostitutes seem as close to dating as possible.  Knowing her real name is, as you say, a basic part of this need.  But as many have pointed out, even if you asked, or she volunteered, how do you know that her real name is genuine?  Maybe we need a new category "Super-GFE", she lets you kiss with tongue AND lets you check her driver's license!  

But seriously, it's the classic GFE game, the perception that you are different from the other johns, that you are a gentlemen, a confidante, a friend, a seeker of true intimacy, someone special to her.  To keep you as a regular, will a provider play into this?  Hellz yeah she will, you're her bread and butter, the best kind of client to have, provided she can keep you at arm's length.  

Ask yourself what would happen if money were not part of the equation.  Try this, ask your favorite, most friendly, GFE regular if you can start seeing her "off-the-clock",  you'll quickly learn the difference between fantasy and reality.  

-----------------------------------------------------
Are you gonna take me home tonight?
Ah down beside your red firelight
Are you gonna let it all hang out?
Fat bottomed girls you make the rockin' world go 'round

iceman

Dear Dman,

Providers play roles.  They provide fantasies for men.  Part of their job (if they are good) is trying to determine what gets you off, and making it happen.  Some men like to be spanked across the face with a rubber cock that just came out of their provider's ass, some men get off on feeling special, feeling like the provider likes them more than the others, the age-old "I don't usually do this for other guys" line.

If a provider reads you as being someone who will respond positively to a warm, affectionate, GFE style, who might like to know their "real" name, guess what? She'll give it to you, whether real or not.  It's good for business.  If she gives a second false name, does this mean she is "playing" you, that she isn't trustworthy?  Absolutely not, she genuinely wants to make the game exciting for you, but wants to protect herself.  Can you blame her for that?  IMHO, you can't.  

To punish providers for being careful is not the right approach IMHO.  Your airline ticket example sends a bad message.  The message is, be upfront and honest with your personal information, you never know, down the road the man might take you on a trip to Hawaii.  The message that should be sent is, be careful with your personal information, even with someone you feel you know well, down the road it can only come back to haunt you.

Trustworthiness for a provider means showing up on time, providing service, not being LE, not misrepresenting appearance or age, and not being a ripoff.  It doesn't go any further than that.  If you expect it to, you're in the wrong game. You should be out dating.

iceman

I've had two long term relationships (the non-paying dating type) that grew out of my being a paying client.  One lasted 6 years, another 5 years (there was some overlap).  It's not that I see providers as a dating service, it's just that I do see them as real women (not fantasy women) and when I occasionally meet one I really like, I don't let the circumstances of our meeting prevent me from getting to know her better.  This includes dating.

Because I do see these ladies as regular women, not "prostitutes" they might respond to me differently than they responsd to guys that see this as a "hobby" (a term I don't feel describes me or anything I do with another person).  In the two cases above, I was very involved in the personal lives of these ladies (good and bad), just like any boyfriend would be.  I spent hundreds of non-paying overnights with them.  But I should also add, I choose the women I see very carefully, and don't just go for quantity or variety.  

I believe a person's approach to this, or any other activity, defines your results.  If my experiences differ than others, it may be because I conduct myself differently.  But I'm not trying to say that big agency girls are going to treat you the way I describe, they won't.  But I also won't call them.  I only see independents whose company I could enjoy in any situation, not just the "fantasy" of a one hour encounter.  So I'll admit, I'm always trying to improve the odds in my favor.

The true value of this board is that we have a venue to express the different experiences and opinions that we all have.  As I said recently on the LA Board, it's a mistake to project your personal experiences to be indicative of the larger population in general.  When I throw something out there for everybody's consideration, I fully realize that my experiences are different than most.  But by either you or me posting, we can compare notes and learn what's possible or what's not.  It's a net sum gain for everybody.

-- Modified on 12/31/2001 11:23:03 AM

The need for trust is because, I will be asleep in the same room with them.  No more, no less.  And I DO take ladies on extended trips.  I regard these dates as genuine escapes from my workaday world, just as you do with your dates.  It's just that my escapes might last 5-7 days.  And if I'm going to be with someone for 20-24 hours a day for a week, including situations where I will be fast asleep, well then I had better trust them, and similarly, they had better trust me.

I realize that your encounters are not the same as mine, or G2's might be.  But that does not make mine, or yours, better or worse than the other, just different.  I don't have any issue with what you look for in your dates (it's obviously sexual variety and nothing more - hey that's cool).  But I look for a more total immersion experience.  And it is only a select class of provider (pretty much always an independent) who is equipped to provide this experience.  But that's just what I'm looking for.  I have a question for YOU.   Why are you threatened by G2 or I having a deeper, more intimate relationship than a provider than the ones that you seek?   I don't need your protection, I am very capable of making my own decisions on the subject.  So what if what I want is a miniature relationship without any long term strings, but with alot of genuine intimace for a few days at a time.  I pay for this, and many ladies are out there to provide it  (while many others cannot).   But you seem to have a problem with this, like we are committing some type of Taboo.  I say, different strokes for different folks, that's all.

and here're mine. I've never asked for a provider's real name simply because I feel that a pseudonym is used to protect her from potential harm. Yes, I've given my real name when asked in screening procedures because I think that on a safety level she is taking the greater risks. So, just because I have given my real name, I don't expect her to do the same. Once, I was given her "real" first name, but that was on her part, not by my asking. It does make it feel like there is a connection and/or trust above that of provider/client, but reality is reality and I know that it really means very little in the long run as no "relationship" is expected.

As far as answering your question, I don't think a client using a fantasy name as well would make much of a difference. If he wants to know your real name, he'll keep asking. If he persists in asking for your real name, unless you are comfortable in giving it to him, I would consider terminating contact with that person. I would do it in a very professional and clear manner and put the decision on him; ie, "...I am not comfortable in giving my real name to a client, and if it is that important to you that you know the name of the lady you see, then I suggest that you choose a different person." Nobody likes to lose a client, but your peace of mind is foremost and should not be compromised.

Just my two cents.

pt

Dear G2,

I would be willing to venture that you are in the extreme minority for developing long-term relationships with prostitutes/providers/escorts (or whatever you prefer to call regular women who take money for sex acts).  In essence, you have taken the GFE to the max, and have worked the fantasy into your day-to-day life.  Hey, if you can manage a provider as a GF, and still see other providers (or did you?), more power to you, at least one of them is free.  

If you don't mind me asking, were the relationships open?  Did the women quit working when they dated you?  How serious were you, live-in partners?  Ever consider marriage? How open were you with your families?  I would be interested to know how this worked, especially in light of your previous comments about being "single" and being able to be honest, and not needing to play games.

IMHO a 5 or 6 year serious relationship is very much like a marriage, and many issues surrounding the hobby (or whatever you would prefer to call it, paid-dating?) would come up between you and your partner.  I can't imagine that they would want you out paid-dating given the fact that you approach it with an open mind to meeting new people, and possibly moving on.

Also, I found one line particularly telling: "I spent hundreds of non-paying overnights with them."  Seems to me that even in a serious relationship, at heart you still measured them in terms of the money.  

I agree fully with your notion that ones approach defines ones results.  If you're looking for a quick, raunchy, anonymous fuck, and you find it here, you'll be satisfied with the results, if you're looking to date providers as a way to find a potential life-partner, and you find it here, you'll be satisfied with the results as well.  But IMHO, the game-playing and dishonesty happens far more often in the latter approach.  

Thanks for the thoughts, I agree, by sharing experiences and comparing notes we can all see who and what is out there.

iceman

I don't think there is anything wrong with asking for your real name, but they should be willing to take no for an answer and not bug you about it.
If they do continue, you can either have a fake name that you give out as your 'real name', or just keep telling them no.

I always give my real name (why not, since I don't use outcall) and I don't think I have ever asked for a providers 'real' name, though a few have told me eventually without me asking.

Personally I think it is a little presumtuous to ask, especially if you havent known each other for a while, but that is just me.

Dear Dman,

If you want to talk about security, I'm in 100% agreement with you, yes, you need to trust someone fully if you are going to travel with them.  I have no problems with that.

I disagree with how big of an issue the "white lie" about a false name is.  I think it's perfectly appropriate for a provider to give a false name.  What's her bigger risk if she provides real information too soon?  Her health and safety if you turn out to be a stalker or rapist? Or her loss of a trip to Hawaii if you turn out to be a BFE client who is paranoid about fake names?  I'll go with the former.  You need far more than her ID to feel safe taking a trip with her.  I think we all know trust goes far beyond that, and the name is really the least of it.  But hey, if that would be a dealbreaker for you, that's your choice.

As far as G2's post, I feel that he was the one passing judgement on certain approaches to the hobby.  Here was his line: "I'm not into fantasy with providers.  I'm not married, so I don't have to play any games."  I believe the implication here is that married men have to play games, or am I missing something?  Furthermore, "playing games" usually has the negative connotation of dishonesty, or not being trustworthy.

My response was to bring out the point that his approach involved as much fantasy and game-playing as anyone elses, and is not more or less honest, just different.  I fully appreciate and respect everyone's approach to the hobby, and a GFE is a wonderful thing, but let's not knock the married guys who do 1/2 hour sessions on their lunch, or hype ourselves up because we feel like we have a "deeper connection" to prostitutes than others because of long sessions, trips, off-the-clock action etc.  

You asked, "Why are you threatened by G2 or I having a deeper, more intimate relationship than a provider than the ones that you seek?"  First, I'm not threatened, just putting forth my opinions, second, you have absolutely no idea what kind of relationship I, or anyone else, seeks.  I could be married to an active provider for all you know, or maybe I only do street and a quick BJ is my idea of a "deeper connection".  Again, don't presume to judge other approaches.  In the end, whatever terms we want to couch it in, we are all paying women to have sex with us, nothing more, nothing less.  

iceman

 

The reason why I don’t spend just one hour with a provider and don’t just see every provider because she is a good fuck is because I always seek more than a fuck, and thus far I have maintained a good relationship with most of them to the point that we have exchanged Christmas and New Years cards, e-cards and gifts.

I also see them like any other women and not like whores like many do and is for that reason that I partake 100% with both G2 and Dman point of view. I once thought of them as good lays and my fantasy fulfilments at the beginning and never thought of giving but just receiving from them. Age, experience, maturity and actually meeting and spending time with them have changed my way of seeing and treating them NOW and is for that reason that I am very selective when choosing whom to meet.

Most of the times they have been the ones that provided me with their business cards that have their Home/Cell numbers, personal e-mails and their ACTUAL names. Very seldom, have I asked for their real names nor have I found them feeling uncomfortable as well. When I have flown them over to my hometown they never were hesitant of providing their names or asking me that they would rather purchase the ticket instead to avoid them from providing their actual names.

I still remember and it will be hard to forget one lady in particular that did not wanted me to drop her off at her departure gate and I know why? We had such a great time and she felt so free and liberated from all the stress and mistreatment the Adult Industry had given her that she had forgotten that the good times still exist. For me, was also painful to see her go but I knew that she had to go until the next time. Since then, we have met regularly and we both have agreed not to post reviews of her since it will destroy the moment and the magic.

Several other cyber buddies of mine are also experiencing similar situations were these ladies feel the same when they visit them. Usually, the ladies just asked them to purchase their ticket and allow them to spend the weekend at no charge. Most of them see it as a stress reliever and/or a get away from HELL.

Happy New Years To All,

The Good Doctor

-- Modified on 12/31/2001 7:23:44 PM

-- Modified on 12/31/2001 6:42:37 PM

I agree with dman on this subject.  I have had regulars give me their real name but would never ask for a real name.  Certainly any client that would continually press a provider for her real name should cause some concern.

Well, as one who HAS had a real relationship with an active provider, (for 9 months) and having seen your consistent diatribes against crossing that line, I think that I can be pretty confident in the judgement that it is pretty darn clear that you are not in such a relationship.  And I have seen you consistently post about how wrong such a relationship is.  That is why I asserted that you are clearly threatened by the perception than anyone might be trying to establish any honest, non-fictionalized interactions between a client and a provider.  And, yes, we gents on these boards are paying women to have sex with us.  Some are paying for the sex, and some are paying for the lack of strings that attatch to the sex when one does not pay money for it.  But, some of us are paying for something beyond the sex: i.e. an intense, multidimensional relationship with a provider, but one that terminates as our contractual relationship does.   There's a pretty darn clear tone throughout your posts that you are somehow threatened by this type of thing.  Sure, I don't know you from Adam, but I do know what you have posted - both on this thread, and in other threads prior to this.  

And, in case you hadn't figured it out, trust is a lynchpin of security when you are alone with someone for a lengthy period of time.  And consistent dishonesty about some areas means that there is an overall lack of any ability to trust someone.

It is clearly a matter of degree, but someone stating, on principle, that they are keeping their true identity secret for reasons of security is far LESS egregious than being told, I trust you to the point that I'm breaking that generally well advised rule, when in fact you are still being given a fake identity.  If you can't see the difference, I'm sorry.  But having had real relationships, it's very apparent that there are degrees of lies, some of which are passive in nature (such as the initial pseudonym), and some of which are proactive in nature such as the "You're special" play when the entire goal is to soak a client for added funds.  And when one starts to be on the receiving end of the proactive ones, it's pretty darn clear that you can't trust that person enough to actually have a mutually constructive relationship.

And BTW, I consider ALL client/provider contact to be some type of relationship.  But exactly what type of relationship this is is entirely dependent upon the degree of genuine honesty between the parties.

My objectives may be different than most guys for a variety of reasons.  First, I've been married and have a grown son.  So I'm not looking for a wife, or a life-partner.  If it happens, fine, but it's not an objective.  Second, I'm very independent.  I've been divorced for 17 years and would have a hard time going back to being married.  I enjoy (need) my time alone, and like the freedom to do whatever/whenever I like.  So I like independent women who have lives of their own.  At my age, the dating scene is also much different than it is when you're 30.  So I have totally different expectations from a woman I date than I did when I was younger.  

But I'm also attracted to women who are confident and sophisticated regarding their sexuality- this is one of the reason I occasionally find myself attracted to an escort.  But for a realtionship to be possible, it has to have the other things too, so they need to be intelligent or a good complement to my personality.  One of the two ladies I mentioned was truly brilliant (yes, an escort with a 165 IQ, mulitple advanced degrees, and doing the work she chose to do).  The second had a great personality that was a nice compliment to my personality.  So we clicked in both cases.

Re. the reference to "hundreds of non-paying evenings," I used that language because I believe those were the terms you used to frame the issue.  I can assure you I never thought of my dates or nights with them in money terms.  We were dating like any other two people, and yes, we talked about "work" over dinner.  

And finally both relationships were open.  The women needed to work, and I expected them to.  You can't date an escort if you're possesive, jealous, or insecure.  You also can't date one if you sit around wondering what they are doing when they're out.  The answer is easy, they're doing the same thing they were doing before they met you, and will be after you are gone.  It actually worked out perfectly for me, because I ride my motorcycle on Saturday morning through the So. Calif. canyons and don't like to drink or go out the night before.  So Friday they would usually work, Saturday was usually for me.  If they had to work Saturday also, well, I'm a big boy and have a lot of interests, so I can keep myself occupied for an evening.  To answer your question, we always had our own places, so we were both free to do as we wanted.  

I'll admit, not every guy has the maturity (for lack of a better word) to handle the extra challenges an escort's work can put on a relationship, but it is certainly possible.  I got all the jealousy, pettiness, and possesiveness out of my system in my 20 and 30's, but that's not to say there won't still be problems at times.  But it has helped me learn to enjoy women for who they are, regardless of their work.  I don't want people to define me by my work, and I don't define women I date by theirs- even if they work as escorts.  

I've noticed in a lot of these discussions that there seems to be an underlying subtext that these women are some sort of untouchables, and that is just not the way I feel about them.  This attitude keeps creeping into threads, though, and I think anyone who is incredulous that it's possible to have a relationship with an escort should examine his own perceptions and find out why he feels this way.  I know my experiences were NOT typical, but I can assure you, if you've ever sipped champagne in a Jacuzzi with an escort with a 165 IQ and a Ph.D, all of your ideas about the business will be challenged.  And you might have a very enjoyable time in the process, I certainly did.

 


-- Modified on 1/1/2002 12:48:34 AM

I always give my full name after meeting a client only.  I put them through the robes to get through my door.  In the end the client always will know more about me than i will about him unless the information is felt comfortable to share.  Which that is the atmosphere I try to create.  My hope is to always facilitate a friend that will be with me as long as time will allow.  The hardest appointments for me (which their have only been a few) are where the guy literally doesn't want to talk about anything to personal.  I am such an open book that this takes all the joy out of the encounter.  When there is not mutual sharing of no more than superficial types of stuff this is the aspect that cheapens the moment.  But each to his own.

Cheridan

Dear G2,

It appears that following your divorce, you have led a charmed life.  Let me make sure I understand.  You were in what you call a serious relationship with a provider, but did not live together, the relationship was open, she continued to work, you continued to hobby/insert-your-euphemism, she was brilliant, gorgeous and a sexual dynamo, and no jealousy issues arose on either side?  Wow, this is getting into DoctorSW territory for embellishment.  I thought you said you didn't do fantasy?

Just so I'm clear, after the first sessions as a paying customer,(however long that was, 2 months, 6 months, a year ), you began to date, and from that point forward, no money was ever exchanged again?  You did not support her in any way financially or otherwise, via rent payments, car or mortgage payments, gifts, pro bono professional work?  She was content to have you just as a "friend with benefits" for your companionship, intellect and sexual intimacy, mostly on weekends, for 5 years?  You never had discussions about more commitment, either you or her wanting to be more serious, perhaps live together?  You never introduced her to your son, family, co-workers?  Let me guess, you have a website with photos. Is there a link where you can download her doctoral thesis?

All cheap shots at the good doctor aside, it appears that we have a very divergent notion of what "serious" means.  Your "serious" sounds more like a booty call with some intellectual conversation over wine thrown in.  In the world I live in, a serious relationship means supporting your partner emotionally, physically and materially.  If one of those pieces isn't there, "serious" is a stretch, but that's me. The readers can decide, but IMHO you are painting an unbelievably rosy picture of this relationship, and it comes across as self-aggrandisement.  If anyone is incredulous or cynical, it's only because your posts don't contain anything that relates to reality as most understand it.  

I'd like to believe your story, but what have you given me?  Motorcyle riding in the morning, sex all night, no strings, no commitment, no issues, just mature fun.  Sounds like you watched "Wild Orchid" one too many times.  In all your posts, you made one short comment about dealing with the "good and bad" like any BF would, well, you've told us the good, did you forget about the bad?

To each his own way of hobbying, and for the men that work at creating deeper bonds with their providers (or like to believe that they are) and hobby with the intent of meeting someone for a longer-term relationship, hey, go for it.  Young arab men notwithstanding, it's still a free country.  But to claim that this is a more "honest", "real", or "trustworthy" approach, or to condemn others as "game-players" if they aren't looking for the same thing just doesn't cut it, nor do mythical tales about impossibly perfect relationships and encounters. Please keep the hyperbole in your own mind.

Have fun, stay safe, and leave the lights ON!!
iceman

A slightly different perspective:

I agree with Iceman's and Girly Girl's caution regarding pseudonyms. It is only a shade different for the reasons that we all use fake nom-de-web call signs and aliases on the bulletin board.  I for one, had to mull over what I should call myself (so no, my name isn't Squidmo! Heh!), as a social precaution. (I wonder if anyone I know would figure out this is me?  And what would they think?) I certainly would not give my whole name as part of my call sign, nor would I want a provider to "out" me... not that any would, but that same fear seems to run with the escorts as well.  I am absolutely willing to go through the screening process and divulge my info to a well known provider. But for the most part, Who I am, and who you are, and who the ladies really are is part fantasy and part precautious anonymity.  

I realize that this may be a bit of a reach for a comparison, but I couldn't help but see the similarties. This is still, after all a pretty risky business we're engaging in.  Technically legal, but we're all certainly playing withing the gray margins of it. (Part of why it's so exciting, no?)

Hey, if the provider wants to give you her name, that's great and all, but this whole notion of trust is a bit extended.  While I'm sure many (myself included to a degree) are hold out a little hope for a real friendship to extend out of the professional relationship, I'd wonder how many of the escorts do as well?

As a brand newbie to this "hobby" (and I agree with many of you that this is a lousy description of this choice of recreation) I am finding this message board absolutely fascinating.  While I was intially attracted to the board for the reviews... I became less interested about the "How many positions" and the sequence of the date stuff, and more interested in the discussion board dialogues.  

I have, by the way, scheduled my first appointment with a very lovely and talented (if reviews and website are to be believed) provider for later this week.  A big thanks to everyone who posts messages, to the TER, and particularly the providers who participate in these discussions for helping me do my homework and make an informed decision. Wish me luck!

where is the link to this ph.d provider w/ 165 i.q.?

I've seen Cheridan's appointment form -- I've gotten bank loans by providing less info than she asks for; no way could I ever know as much about her.

i_c_e_m_a_n,

Why don't you grow up and stop being so PATHETIC? Everyone has its' own opinion and way of thinking. You are sounding more like a Communist/Dictator every time you write. If someone disagrees with your way of thinking you make a huge issue about it taking up unnecessary bandwidth space and the same goes when you do not agree with someone’s thoughts.

Everyone must think your way or is not good. It is weird that you have not made an issue on "G2’s" credibility for not posting/reviewing his meetings since you have said in a previous thread and based on your theory, "Without any reviews, but just hearsay comments and forum posts, IMHO you add next to nothing, and your credibility is zip". Does this apply to "G2" or was it only a cheap shot at "Purelust" and "7DeadlySins", the inquiring minds want to know?

ROTFLMAO,

The Good Doctor
PS. BTW, this will be my last comment pertaining this topic and have no more to say to you knowing that you will not stay put and will use up more bandwidth.

Iceman,
There's all types of relationships.  Mature people can have a mature relationship, that may be very different from the norm.  The less needy you are, the less "ownership" you require from the woman you are dating.  I could never have an "open marriage," but dating is quite different.  You don't have to have complete agreement on all the issues, you're not together 100% of the time, and you remain independent.

To answer you question, I "paid" for about a year as a client in each case before no more money was involved.  Of course I bought dinners, and did regular boyfriend things (B'day gifts, Xmas gifts, just like they did for me) but that was it.  Both providers discussed moving in with me, but in both cases they would have had to rent places for work.  In the end, we just kept our own places.  We'd all been married before, and marriage was never something any of us wanted.  Nor did we expect things to go beyond the stage they were at (with the exception of living together which we couldn't work out).

Since you seem fascinated by the negative aspect of things, let me say that all relationships have negatives and these were no different.  But most of the problems were related to personal issues between me and them, and not work.  And yes, my friends knew about both ladies.  But I'll give you some negative examples so you can feel you've "exposed" me for the fraud that I am:

Provider #1 had intimacy issues and despite her great IQ and sexual appetite was an emotional cripple IMHO.  She was also even more independent than me, making coming together in the middle an occasional challenge.  She also drank too much and had ruined her skin by over tanning.  She also liked spicy food and farted in bed too much.

Provider #2 was bi-polar and it was a constant problem.  She was the opposite of #1- beautiful, but not too bright.  Whereas #1 was too independent, #2 was too dependent on me and everybody else in her life- a child in a woman's body.  Her life was a constant problem, out of control and getting worse.  She cried frequently and also snored so loudly that  I couldn't sleep sometimes.  She woudln't have morning sex, and frequently that was the only time we were together.  She also hated onions and that made cooking really difficult.

So Iceman, now that you've debunked the two ladies in question, let me tell you about how difficult it is to be involved with a provider.
- Sometimes you have to change your plans at the last minute.  You're never sure you'll be going to dinner, for example, until you're actually in the car.
- You have to be flexible in all things due to the fact that most clients are extremely unreliable and disrespectful about the ladies time or personal life.  They get an erection and they expect the whole world to stop what they are doing.
- You have to hear the stories about asshole clients that ruined her day by their actions during a session.  You have to provide the moral support to get her back on her feet so another asshole can have his turn.  There is nothing in this for you, it is just a service you must provide if you date an escort.
- If you are dating a provider, you need to have your emotions in control, especially jealousy.  If you can't handle that, you won't last a month.
- You need to be more understanding than the average boyfriend.  Sometimes your needs will take a backseat. Sometimes you will be the only person that doesn't get laid that day.
- You need to realize there will always be other male friends in her life than you.  Escorts relate well to men and frequently have few girlfriends.  If that bothers you, get out before you even get started.
- There will always be disapproving people in the world, so you sometimes have to be more guarded than you would like to be.  We were open with some friends and family members, and discrete around others.  Narrow minded, or judgemental people, like some on TER or the "Religious Right", required us to counter their narrow ideas about sex and relationships by being more secretive.

So Iceman, is your work complete now?  Have you exposed both me and the women sufficiently?  Does that give you enough negative dirt to feel vindicated, or would you like me to talk about how they disposed of their used tampons too?    
 

-- Modified on 1/2/2002 1:16:38 PM

I'll make this short and sweet.  Since returning to this hobby\activity last February I have only seen two ladies who did not share their real names with me on either our first meeting or subsequent visits.  
I have never asked for this information it has just either popped up in general conversation or they just said "my real name is ...."
I also agree with others that if someone is "pressing" you for either your real name, other information, or some activity there is a red flag there.  It may not be warranted 100% of the time but you should be extra careful and not cross your personal boundaries just because you feel pressured.
JM2C
Lustman

Dear G2,

Thank you for the thoughtful post, and having the patience to read and respond to mine in a respectful manner.  Do I try to push buttons?  Sure.  But I do appreciate hearing your caveats concerning dating a provider.  It is refreshing to hear someone speak honestly about the realities, both pro and con, of dating a provider, rather than self-congratulatory remarks about how wonderful it is, seemingly ignoring the significant downside.  That's all I was looking for, some objectivity and balance.  Now if we can just get the good doctor to inject some objectivity into his reviews and posts, life will be grand.

iceman

She's never advertised on the internet.  I'm guessing she's also retired by now (in her mid-40's).  I haven't seen or spoken with her in over three years so I have no current information.

-- Modified on 1/3/2002 1:02:15 PM