Why men do this ????

* Comes on strong in the beginning. They will be very 'smitten' on you, far more than you are of them, making them appear to be almost vulnerable
* They convey that you are “special” unlike any other they have ever known
* Goes out of their way to impress you. All glitz
* Makes personal sacrifices to be with you. Calls you just to say, "Hi"
* Makes direct statements of their dreams of a future: includes you in the dream
* Conveys the message that they are seeking a permanent, or serious relationship



Bends over backwards to win you. But once they win you over things start to change


* Puts your together time on a schedule. Suddenly they have many prior commitments to friends, family, work
* Finds faults or flaws with you, exaggerates faults and flaws with the relationship, and even goes as far as to invent problems, faults, or flaws
* Goes as far as trying to turn their partner away by being unbearable, ignorant, or controlling

Now lets be fair about this...women are as guilty of this behavior as men are...more precisely emotionaly conflicted people are often guilty of this type of behavior in relationships
because from the very beggining and probably in many other aspects of their lives they are just not completely honest with them selves about what they desire and what is the right thing to do. They do not seek to know themselves to the degree necessary to refrain from overdoing it in the beggining and can;t muster up enough character and accountability for their obviously contradictory and fickle behavior to say "I am sorry I made a mistake and lead you on more than I am capable of living up to" Please forgive me I am an asshole" Instead they find comfort and validation in their behavior by convincing themselves that it is really the other persons fault by creating conflict in a candy ass passive agressive manner or worse by acting like a real shitty person and then conveniently creating some sort of defensive tactic so they can pull this type of shit and not feel guilty.

It is a common place enough MO and it extends waaay past male female relationships. Lets face it you either have integrity or you don't. You either cling to your ego and fancy that it is doing something good for you when all egos ever really do is validate us when we fail to do the right thing or keep us from even recognizing it so that we can do it in the first place.

to sum it up with one of my favorite quotes...

One who knows others is wise-
One who knows themselves is enlightened-
Lao Tzu- Tao Te Ching

IMHO(that term again...lol)...

because some of us men are no good,lousy, son of a bitches!

Now, I'm not speaking for myself mind you(the sob part) but we
go through mood changes also and then sometimes(or most of the time) our SO is never in the mood...

It's a beautiful, warm, spring morning and a man and his wife are spending the day at the zoo. She's wearing a cute, loose fitting; almost see through, pink spring dress, sleeveless with straps. He's wearing his normal jeans and a T-shirt. The zoo is not very busy this morning. As they walk through the ape exhibit, they pass in front of a very large, hairy gorilla. Noticing the girl, the gorilla goes ape. He jumps up on the bars, and holding on with one hand (and 2 feet), he grunts and pounds his chest with his free hand. He is obviously excited at the pretty woman in the wavy dress. The husband, noticing the excitement, thinks this is funny. He suggests that his wife tease the poor fellow some more. The husband suggests she pucker her lips, wiggle her bottom at him, and play along. She does, and Mr. Gorilla gets even more excited, making noises that would wake the dead. Then the husband suggests that she let one of her straps fall to show a little more skin. She does, and Mr. Gorilla is about to tear the bars down. "Now try lifting your dress up and flashing your beaver." he says. This drives the gorilla absolutely crazy, and now he's doing flips and has a hard-on like a baseball bat. Then the husband grabs his wife, rips open the door to the cage, flings her in with the gorilla and slams the cage door shut. "Now, tell HIM you've got a f#cking headache."

Cheers!

Men are much more susceptible to a visceral love response based on an initial impression.  My ATF knocked my socks off the first time I ever saw her.  She was sitting on a bench waiting for me to come off the elevator to get dressed in a mink coat.  It's what make men more likely to marry based on looks.  If you believe human beings are a product of evolution; then to propogate their genes they have to breed as much as possible.
Females are more interestd in making sure their offspring grow to maturity since they are the ones saddled with an immature individual who for a period of time needs to be cared for so they tend to be more cautious about mating.

With this crude backdrop,  Men are in their lust phase when they just want to mate and in that initial time the girl is perfect for that purpose, (you can call it puppy love or whatever) but at some point the lust fades (time for a new provider) and an awareness develops that the person of interest is in point of fact not perfect.  Hr realizes compromises will have to be made as to what their dream woman will look and behave like, how they will be able to behave.  Lots of men and women have affairs for that simple feeling of the rush of new love.  

If you are talking about you and some relationship, you are just seeing the phase where the guy falls out of lust.  Your faults have always been there, he literally just hasn't seen them. Now he does, and this is the phase where he decides whether he can live with them.  He's not inventing problems, he just never noticed them till now.

The good news if you make it through this phase, you end up with mature love,  someone who can honestly love you with all your faults because he loves her faults too.

My ATF Has the same faults she had when I met her, her nose isn't perfect, I don't have to pull her off the ceiling when she comes, she drinks.  But they are part of the package and I live with them.  She gives me a true GFE, we fight all the time. We compromise reasonably well.  What phase would we be in in a civilian relationship? who knows?


By the way, that part about him being unbearable, ignorant and controlling?  You are going through the same thing too. You aren't seeing it the same way he is not seeing it.  Something big is about to happen either way.  I hope you aren't talking about a relationship you are having with a client because this is beginning to sound like it's going to get messy if this relationship contiues to evolve the way you are apparently hoping it will.

Hope you get through the other side of this the way you want.

And we thought it was all about the money. LOL GRIN

the simple answer was given by diane wiest to her daughter in the movie "parenthood"; her daughter's boyfriend (keanu reeves) just walked out on her and she cries, "but mommy, he told me that he loved me!" and diane wiest replies, "yes, i know dear, they say that. then they cum".

"Bends over backwards to win you. But once they win you over things start to change" EXACTLY! why? because YOU are no longer the same person!!

when he was "hunting", you were elusive prey. once he "wins" you, you are pretty much a carcass and a trophy. do hunters cherish their prey forever? no, they eat the carcass, hang the trophy on the wall, and go out and hunt something else.

i'm not saying this applies to all men and all women, and i'm certainly not saying it's "how it should be". but if a man comes on strong and hard, making declarations of undying love and promises for the future based on a few good times and maybe the fact that you are good-looking - if i were you i'd hit him over the head with something heavy.

That's all some of us are in it for.  That includes men AND women.

except for arranged marriages, that is how all close relationships start, an initial attraction which nowadays gets consumated prior to marriage and then for whatever reason the attraction remains and a deeper relationship develops.

Some people just deliberately short circuit the process particularly when you are taking about relationship outside a marriage or with a provider.

I firmly believe a hobbyist and a provider can have a close relationship, it's just a hell of lot messier.

Seems most relationships go through this. Too bad isn't it.

* say they value intellect/education above all else, then turn around and go out with a "hot looking" Gen-X stud-cum-coffeehouse-poet with no future or prospects or some slacker with multiple piercings and the store manager at TowerRecords who thinks he's a big shot cuz he makes ~50K/year!

* just when you expect it the least, come on to you out of nowhere and say they want to dump their boyfriend (your best friend) and that they would do anything to be with you (including cutting their hair and dressing differently, etc)

* be all over you in public (PDA = "public displays of affection") then take you into a boutique where they come across a female friend and then suddenly it's "hands off" and even go on to explain how you're "just a friend"  (implying that possibly a gay one at that!)

* you find them in bed with a stranger 6 months into a seemingly solid and exclusive relationship and all they can do is to stare at you uncomfortably for a few minutes and then plead "can you please leave so we can FINISH!?"


somebody stop me, i could go on all day!  LOL

Young love, puppy love, Pheromones, it's all the same.  
Your examples 1,3,4 are the same and an example of above.

Now #2, when they will to make that kind of commitment, you are on a different level.  Rither they want to dump your friend and are just using you as an excuse (very likely with the added entertainment value of getting to watch your friendship fall apart) so they have moved on to the next plane while skipping the first (remind me not to invite you on any of my dates LOL, grin)

But I am confused.  I thought 99.9999% of the women on this board are providers so are we talking about a client/provider relationship or what?  Why is everone so blase about this.  Every other day we have some huge thread about hobbyists falling for their providers but this one is just slipping under the wire.

Messier as compared to what? Any relationship is messy, scarry, and from what I can see of todays ethics; Doomed!
 At least a hobbyist & provider meet under honest circumstances. (He is horny & she needs/wants money) That's a lot better than say a dating service where he is lonely(horny) and she wants to sink a legal hook into his monetary assets. Ahhh! that special, true, forever kind of love. Gives me a case of the "warmies" every time.
 
Excuse me while I go "hurl chunks"

 Cm

You may speak with my attorneys at Wei, Cheetum, & Howe

The Original & Official
  Cm

that being in full possession of my submental faculties, and pursuant to all the statues and by-laws of this congregation of hobbyists, i have paid the law firm of Wei, Cheetum & Howe (LOL) a compensatory sum of $0.02 in exchange for the exclusive rights to the TER alias "Cynicalman 2.0"

all future correspondence from said alias should be deemed the sole intellectual property of the VIP member known as "singleton" and will in no way shapely form be binding and legally attributable to the original "Cynicalman" (praised be his cynical Wholiness!)

in conclusion and retrospetiveness of all the previous pseudo-legal mumbo jumbo herewith recklessly spewed forth, i conclude by once again emphatically stating that without exception and forever hereafter in perpetuity throughout the universe it is  our indisputable point of fact that:

I T   I S   A L L    A B O U T     T H E    M O N E Y!


cynically yours,
singleton (aka "Cynicalman 2.0")

Although it may be considered the sincerest form of flattery the hard won principles and truths of intimacy for money are Cynicalmans intellectual property & domain.  Cheap unauthorized use of these truths is just plain not nice. Any further infringement on said properties will result in the offender paying for Cynicalmans next "Hobby" appointment.

  IAATM

   Cm

i took your post to mean you were talking generally about "men" as in civilians, hence my reply about civilian women.

at that level of generality what's already on the board is about as much clarity or poignancy you can expect i think

HOWEVER, if you meant these were hobbyists that did these things, then that's a different story altogether.

and since i've already goofed around too much in this thread i will yield the floor to others

all the time lol.  Apparently many have not recieved a BJ from their wife since the night before they were married.

-- Modified on 7/5/2003 8:46:22 PM

the joy stick department? I know it's useless discovery channel trivia, but I  couldn't resist.

By the way, Von Ryan? I thought you died at the end of the movie.

"Baby don't take the blame youse a real cool dame
But now that I made you call my name you just never look the same
From the middle of the bed I bang your head like a rock n roller

On the way out, I smacked a nigga with my pistol-a
When I met you I said "Whats yo name?" "Tara"
You hopped on my dank like there was no tomorrow
All I wanted was some sexin, now you want affection
Damn I hate to see your ass comin in my direction
Wait here, I'll be right back, I'm goin to get a spliff
You know I'm gonna juke your ass like Emmitt Smith"
-J Ro

It is called ... the "thrill of the hunt" ... it is by far the most exciting part of the courtship ...  more than the conquest itself ...

-- Modified on 7/6/2003 3:03:13 AM

died and went to hobby heaven...lol

At least to the courting behavior.

Don't you ladies flatter yourselves, there are plenty of providers out there that do this as well!

If a hobbyist is honest, sincere, open, relatively new to the business and has money he can get taken for a ride. When any questions arise or a convenient opportunity arises, the hobbyist then gets trashed, his integrity challenged and he is held at fault!

Don't be hypocrites, realize it's a two-way street and that there are some good people out there who get burned!