Being a product of my generation and the ever increasing fast paced lifestyle we all know and love in the USA, I have become tired of the 24 hour coverage of the war. Not to mention the debates that are an ongoing and going nowhere issue. Some good points have been raised by both sides of the debate, but enough is enough. You've said it all, at least once, why continue? You are not going to change anyones opinion. Are you politician wannabes? Then run for office, do something for the good of your community.

The Media. Every network has correspondents and cameras in several different areas, even driving along with the "charge" on Baghdad. I cannot get away from it, "Shock & Awe has just gotten underway at 2018 hours in Iraq, well I hope it is over quickly with few human casualties. Radio stations, TV stations I can't escape!!! HELP ME!!! Time to pick up a good book I suppose.

The protestors. Please stop. What are you proving? That you know how to get incarcerated? Good job! Bravo, I applaud your ignorance.

One thing that I have noticed on the plus side, a barrel of crude is going for $2.00 less, and prices at the pump in my area have started to decline.

Just venting. Praying for the expedient end to all of this.

IMHO:

I agree with you.  At least in SoCal the weather has been good, so at least one can find outside diversions.  Watching the war coverage is a little like watching election night coverage, hours go by and you realize that you haven't learned much, but have sacrificed a lot of time in that effort.

You are much better off just getting a summary every once in a while (if you have to) and then tearing yourself away from the coverage.  It's better than getting hypnotized by it.

I will now get off of my soapbox.

It takes two to to speak the truth,
One to talk , another to hear.
Henry David Thoreau
Just A thought for the day...

Have A Great Day ...

You need to get laid.  You've come to the right place.

Dear Knowledge-is-Power,

You wrote: "Praying for the expedient end to all of this"

I pray alongside you too.  Unfortunately, conventional wisdom, even from our brethrens across the pond, is we have fully opened Pandora's Box, the beginning of something that will go on for decades ... and serves as the basis for expansion of defense industries globally.  

It all will become transparent by the way we behave as the victor in that little country

What would make you think that we will do anything different that what America has always done?

Having America kick Japan and Germany's asses was the best thing that has EVER happened to those countries!  America has always been benevolent as victors.

Even though the Iraqis will have billions in the near future from their soon to be resumed oil production, we will probably foot the bill for helping them rebuild.  And I am pretty OK with that... I just hope they don't rebuild all those SaddamMosques with my tax dollars.

In your reference to "Pandora's Box", I would just as soon open it prepared as wait for it to EXPLODE.  All honest thinkers know it was going to come to a head at some point, why not now when we have the upper hand.  Would you rather put your trust in Saddam or Chirac?  Name another country that would give you the sweat off their balls to help a conquered country.

I'm not bored.

I'm getting angrier at this war with every lie from Washington.

If we are passionate enough to discuss this hobby, we should be passionate enough about each other to work so shit like this does not happen again.

Make love not war (even if we're paying for it)!

Remember '72 Olympics?
Iranian Embassy 1979?
How 'bout Beruit 1983?
Kuwait 1991?
September 11th ring a bell?

This business has gone on long enough without challenge.

This is only a partial response to Bribite and Straightman, that should suffice:

Iraq, is not a Japan or Germany.  It is a third world country, and look at the history of what we have done there.  

Embassy take over of 1979, was a payback for overthrowing the democratically elected government of Dr. Mohamad Mossadegh in 1953 Iran, with installation and support of a dictatorship.  Allende was replaced with Pinochet in Chile [1973].  Both well documented.  

Capice?  Do you want more examples?  Go read the history, MSNBC and other networks are not history.

What the Eisenhower administration did in 1953 hardly applies to 2003 and the war on terrorism.  Next you are going to bring up the Crusades and blame Bush for that too!

Replacing the communist Allende with Pinochet worked out pretty well for Chile.  They have the stongest economy in South America.  I have several business contacts in Chile who lived through the Pinochet regime and felt that even though he was a dictator, he was benevolent for the most part.  When he finally allowed free elections, although he lost, he carried a large percentage of support from the people of Chile.

But that is off issue.  Like all liberals, you have changed the subject!  America is always benevolent in their victory.  A couple of third world countries that come to mind are Panama, Grenada, Korea and Kuwait.   Nothing can be done about mistakes of the past, we move forward and I am very glad that we are calling the shots.

BTW, Iraq has the oil wealth to become a great nation, if given the proper guidance and good political leadership they could well out produce many European nations.  If it wasn't for the freedom and liberty given to Japan and Germany, they may have become third world countries.  Did you ever visit East Germany prior to 1989?  I did in 1977 and it was in the same condition it was in 1945.

What do you expect of the media?  Your point is more valid if the wall-to-wall coverage is still present a month, 2 months, 3 months from now, etc...

Given how we are kicking their arses tells me your worries about being this being dragged on for too long are for naught.

And you'll come to a bad end. Posting fact and logic rather than passion and rhetoric will get you branded a troublemaker, anti-semetic, bleeding-heart pinko or worse. Nice to hear from you - thanks for the posts.

Maybe you can enlighten me as to the pertinent "facts" that were mentioned?  

Iran 1953?
Chile 1973?

I would only brand you guys wrong!  And when you can't step up to your inane comments, you change the subject.  I guess if it works for Tom Daschle it might work for you... wait a minute... its not working for Tom anymore either.

Bribite,

By defending Pinochet, you have shown where you come from to any one with even modest intelligence.  

I really did not want to answer your points in details, do you know why?  

Oh ... by the way, advocating a foreign policy that permits globalization and peace, does not make me liberal.  

Defending Pinochet crystallizes your train of thoughts ... murder, jailing of democrats, rape and brutality en masse!  You like those don't you!



-- Modified on 3/21/2003 5:41:02 PM

And you guys call me emotional?

Again, liberal tactics, change the subject and attack intelligence.  You are a very studious stooge.

I don't defend murder, etc.  However, those of your ilk seem to be pretty OK with it when it comes to Saddam Hussein!  What I know of Pinochet's Chile is from four business contacts, who by the way were free to come and go at will.  Pinochet left Chile with the best medical systems, best Universities, highest literacy rate, lowest infant mortality rate, best economy  and most stable government in South America.  Those are facts.

It's pretty strange that after his loss in a free election, his own country didn't try him and hang him from what you say.  He was accused by a court in Spain and never faced trial, lack of quality evidence to the British Court.

Allende was no saint by the way!  He attempted to socialize all personal property in Chile, and he was a communist Now there a touchy feelie crowd - remember Pol Pot?  What was the final count, something like 2,000,000 dead in two years.  What about Stalin, what was it 30,000,000 plus in just under 5 years?  Yea, Allende was a real peach!

Do your homework and bring on the debate, if all you want to do is attempt to flame with with ridiculous rhetoric keep it up, it proves my point perfectly!  In case you have forgotten the original issue was what America will do to/for a post war Iraq.  And as I'm writing this, it seems that may start tomorrow!  HooWaa

The only people that have understood the intent of my post are caguy_69, HootOwl, Tatoogirl74, and Fancy Pants with a nice quote.

In response to Hoot Owl, you have the best idea, is there anyone available in the Hartford CT area (I'm stuck here for the weekend at least) or within 100 miles (not NYC though) that would enjoy the company of a kind sensitive  gentleman for 2-3 hours. I could really use a good back rub.

This should shake things up...all you bored folks.....I'll probably get flamed, but Oh Well..!!! In these stressful times, I think it's good to lighten things up a little... Enjoy    http://www.madblast.com/view.cfm?type=FunFlash&display=2123

Dear Bribit,

Well, the matter of Chile and Pinochet speaks for itself.  The audience here, obviously does not constitute a group of "Dickless Wonders", and can make up their mind.

Talking about Chile, my wife when she was at MIT, had a classmate from Chile.  They were both getting MBAs, this Chilean lady belonged to a well to do family, and was a Goddess!  And, she could drink!  She and I had a wonderful time together.  I learned a lot about the joys of living under Generlisimo Pinochet!

Now, regarding Iraq, our history, again speaks for itself. We have been going to these third world countries, under all sort of banners, including democratization, and then install a not too Jefersonian character, support him, and create a lot of resentments. In the end, the money from out pocket, the good old U.S. tax payers, in terms of massive defense budgets, helped British Petroleum [in case of Iran], United Fruit Company [Guatemala], ITT [Chile], etc.

Iraq, is a bit of an enigma.  Here are the reasons:

1] Ask your businessman friend with contacts in Iraq. Rumsfeld and Saddam, go back a long way.  Today, watching a Canadian Channel, they showed Rummy and Saddam meeting in 1980s, all smile and cordiality, ad nauseum.  All it takes to deal with him, is Cheney or Rummy, picking up the phone, and calling their old friend.  Your friend will confirm that all it takes is a phone call to make a little deal, then why war?

2] If we feel democratization will bring an end to Al Quaeda, and dry up the funding sources, then we all know most of the criminals of Sep 11th, came from Saudi Arabia [the mothership of al-quaeda], the rest, Egypt, Jordan, and can't remember the remaining one or two.  We could start by democratizing Saudi Arabia peacefully.  They are, after all, our "buddies", aren't they?

Having said all of this, if we indeed conduct free and honest election within 2-3 months in Iraq, replicated something approximating our own constitution over there, and get out quickly, I am all for it.

Anything other than this, will have the smell of colonialism. Now, I know you like it!  But the rest of the universe frowns upon it,  I wonder why???

And old buddy, do me a little favor, stop listening to some of these right wing talk show hosts with the brain of a demented mongoose.


-- Modified on 3/23/2003 9:34:46 AM

Dear Puck,

Cheer up!  For the first time, our public has recognized the foreign policy is too important in this day and age, to be left in the hands of the politicians!  2004 will be a remarkable election season.  

And, I honestly believe peace between Israelis and Palestenians, with honorable terms for each side, is viable, if the military industrial complex decides to focus somewhere else for a while.

Sounds like a lot these posters need to get laid.  Save the politics for a political board, and tell me where I can find the girl in the EscortsUSA banner.

The military industrial complex is resposible for the continuation of the Israeli/Palestinian conflict? The Israelis are not going to vacate their part of the world and the Palestinians won't stop fighting until they do. Where is the "honorable" solution?

Blaming any military complex for this religious/territorial war is incredibly strange.

Dear Ocsir,

I would love to continue this discussion of peace in the middle east, and crystallize what I said. Unfortunately, tonight, seeing so much killing on all sides, makes it a depressing moment for me.  Let's revisit this on a better day ...

Regards
QA

-- Modified on 3/24/2003 6:52:03 AM