"register" with LATimes to read the article? Are you a shill for LA Times?

You have to register for their online version.

I was a little put off by the registration stuff, but it was free (you may want to let readers know about this) and the article was fantastic!  To take the article for face value, is to admit that pretty much all the stars that we chat pay top $$$ to see are either exposed to or have HIV and other such infectious diseases. I'd wonder what some of the porn stars have to say about this.  I'm sure there going to be a day when these ladies post confirmed test results on their websites!

but rather a guy who does a great job of keeping us informed.  Thanks for the link, GC.  The article was quite sobering.

--SoCal

I thought California was the Domain of Liberals.  And they ignore a signicant industry there.  And this quote...."Screen Actors Guild officials say they would never allow their members to work on an adult set."  I think we could change the saying "those damn liberals" to "those damn selective liberals".  I don't think anyone is surprised that conservatives haven't been helping the porn industry, but where is the outrage by the state democrats in this mess?

-Hoot.

Thanks for the information GC. With the exception of the aids rates, these rates sound worse than those you would expect to find among Bangkok commercial sex workers.

Makes you think twice about setting appointments with gals in the industry!!!

"But it would be political suicide for anyone in government to come forward and try to start regulating the porn industry," Lane says. "That's why nothing's been done." Though there are labor laws in place that could be enforced, new legislation would be needed to bring California in line with Nevada's regulations.

Actresses Britni Taylor and Savannah Rain lean against the back wall of a crowded North Hollywood soundstage. They listen, occasionally yawning, as cameraman Glenn Baren and his all-male crew from the production shop Extreme Associates try to figure out how to reconfigure the small set to accommodate various camera angles. Baren paces across the concrete floor, listening to suggestions from the crew. The actresses stare at the ceiling. No one asks their opinion. Finally, it's decided: The first scene will be shot from the foot of the bed.

There are no condoms on the set. There's no toilet paper in the bathroom. The performers brought boxes of baby wipes. Soiled sheets litter the ground, creating a trail to the bed. For more than two hours, Taylor and Rain engage in unprotected sexual acts with a male performer.

During a break, Rain asks director Thomas Zupko for her co-workers' HIV tests. Handed a stack of papers, she flips through the documents. One is missing--Taylor's. Rain asks repeatedly for her paperwork, but she balks. "I don't have [expletive] AIDS," Taylor finally says. "I am not [having sex with] you."

Stunned, Rain says nothing. Minutes pass, then Baren picks up the camera and filming continues.

Off to the side, an actress mutters: "That is why we take so many prescriptions."

And last year, they did mass testing, I'm told, of the girls in TJ, and something like 80% tested positive for HIV. I don't have the facts, nor the figures, but have no interest in anything across the border...

Sedona

I enjoy being as 'limited' a provider as I am.  Screen ridiculously highly, precisely for this reason....

Thanks for sending it.  Anyone who's seen porn stars or high volume providers I stay clear of....

They're probably busy.  See, if there's only 500 porn stars in CA, there's a lot more people in other industries that need protection.  Not that it took place in CA, but did you happen to catch the news story/Frontline story about an iron pipe foundry in TX, that was regularly crushing it's employees?  The employees who now can't sue because of W's "tort reform" while governor?

They're busy stopping that kind of thing.

...I was always under the impression that the porn actors/actresses were closely monitored and tested, clearly this is not the case.  According to the article "...the only monitoring in XXX is a form of modest self-regulation...but even that practice is neither widespread nor tightly monitored."  And "...dozens of XXX filmmakers have no such [STD testing/condom use] requirements.  Even at those that do, the rules can be easily overlooked."

The PSE (porn star experience) suddenly looks far less attractive.

-- Modified on 1/11/2003 10:24:14 PM

...many of the TJ fans speak of how the girls are tested and must carry their health card.  Mexico, however, has one of the most corrupt governments around, so I am certain that a little "greasing of the palm" can get any girl a "clean" health card--the main reason you'll never see me picking up girls at Adelita's.

-- Modified on 1/11/2003 10:05:31 PM

That is wise..
.you may recall a previous posting of mine about why I like to know who the Hobbyist is in relation to them posting on TER, and one thing I look for is if he goes to TJ..If he does, I'm not likely to book - safety first - for me and for my clients..

But, that's just how I feel..

xo,
Sedona

LOL, California's population is over 35 million, and it has the fifth largest economy in the world, and is arguably the most diverse population of any of the states, but you've got it all divied up nicely, either liberals or conservatives, now that is truely silly and absurd.

Do you think it's possible that the legislators in California have something a bit more pressing on their minds? Perhaps this state's 34 billion dollar budget shortfall, among hundreds of other issues?  I take it you don't live in the state? MfSD...............

2K1,
In all fairness to the ladies in the porn industry who could be impacted by posts like this, I think we owe them the courtasy of having a chance to respond and contribute their opinions.  That is simply not going to happen this week while they are away in Las Vegas attending the AVN convention.
The porn industry is huge and unregulated. There are people who call themselves porn stars but like escorting, are you going to lump the street whores in with the women we are seeing? Of course not...

You could use the same logic to pick up street hookers test them and use the disturbing results to make the blanket statment that everyone should be questioning why you would see any provider of the sex industry. I don't think a blanket question and the deduction behind it are fair or apply..  There are porn actresses in this business that are very health concious along with video companies that are as well, as well as fleebag operations..  

In fact if you watch higher quality produced adult videos, you will notice that the same actors appear over and over.  In fact many of the top pornstars chose who they work with, and the pool of men that work is very small... So are they really any more of a risk then any other escorts??  

The bottom line.. Let's not make blanket generalizations,and let us give the providers equal time to respond to some of this..It is obvious that you have a bias against the Porn Star aspect of this, and that is your perogative.. But don't delude yourself that you are being extra cautious because you avoid that route..

I for one did research, talked to hobbyists and others and deliberately chose that mode initially because I felt less at risk...

according to a friend who is in the adult vid business, the top three or so production companies are stringent about STD testing... you have to have a PCR test monthly, and only from one laboratory that they trust. However, that still leaves a 30-45 day window where one could be exposed to HIV virus where the Polymerase test won't react to it. That's as safe as you can make it.

She bluntly asked several of the other actors how they felt about this window of dangerous opportunity as she said that they acted as if they did not hear her... i.e. there was an unsettling amount of denial and minimizing of the risk factors.

When you move down one level to the second grade of production houses, the health standards fall off sharply to the point that they are practically meaningless.

There is great pressure to work without condoms. The standard ruse is to assure the new girls that they can work with condoms, but once they arrive on the set they are told they have to go bareback or they won't get paid. They are also told that "everyone in the industry is tested and safe", and it is left up to them to figure out otherwise.

I was not making blanket generalizations nor am I biased against the Porn Star Experience--I merely stated that the article disturbed me.  That I was under the mistaken impression that the porn industry was much more regulated.

BTW, your point about the same actors working the high end productions is not always true--besides few, if any, porn stars START working in high end productions like Vivid Video.  They begin in low end gonzo films.  And the actress in the article knew well and had worked before with the actor who gave her aids.

Lastly, the ladies in the industry WILL be impacted by this.  I don't expect, however, that when and if they choose to come forward and comment that they'll say anything other than "I have never worked without showing my test results or seeing the results of those I work with."  Not one will ever admit publicly to anything different so waiting for them to comment seems pointless.

Again, the article showed that I had misconceptions about the porn industry.  And yes, I would think very hard before deciding to book time with a PS now because of it.





-- Modified on 1/12/2003 10:39:15 AM

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What a wake up call this article is. I just finished reading it and will never have a "PSE" now. I flirted with the idea from time to time, but am real glad I never followed through. I assumed wrongly that the adult film biz was similarly safe as regulated,legalized prostitution in Nevada. Lets all play safe!

Well said!

I think a forum such as this is an excellent place to publish our concerns as hobbyists to about the potential risks we take when we see a PS.

Since we are the consumers we have to decide whom not to see based on our own individual criteria. Theoretically, part of our selection criteria could be a way to verify that the PS provider is not infected, or undergoes regular testing. Individually I think we all do that in one manner or another.  As a group, we would have more impact.

I don't know how that would work/not in real life, but it could potentially create a demand for better testing at the porn industry level if the PS providers see a drop in revenues from hobbyists because there is a lack of it.

Obviously there are privacy and other issues that would come into play, but further up the thread someone made a great point about it being very unlikely that any PS is going to admit they're not being as cautious as is humanly possible. I tend to agree with that.

I also want to make it VERY clear that I am not casting any aspersions onto any of the PS providers or other providers out there.  I’ve seen and read posts by the ladies on these discussion boards that are intelligent, well written, very eloquent and very classy!  It is obvious that the PS and providers that post to this board have a lot of integrity and are really concerned about their clients.

What I'm saying is that it would be nice for us hobbyist dudes to have some kind of way to know that our safety is being attended to as well. Unfortunately, I don't know how or if that can really happen.

I’d be very interested in opinions from Porn Stars and Providers.

adTHANKSvance,

HiProGlo

HiProGlo,
The first thing I'd like to say is you can create your own PSE with your own ATF Provider! It's all in the fantasy and role-playing anyway, right?
As far as testing goes, I get tested every six months like clockwork and even have Outlook reminders scheduled for it! There was actually a period of three years where I was without sex - period, and I still went every 6 months! Any client of mine can ask to see my test results, at any time - I would not be insulted, and would even encourage it.
Safety is crucially important to me, and was a bit of a dilemma in wanting to offer both safety and what I deemed a real GFE. I compromised with the BBJ as it was, but will not offer other things, that I wouldn't anyway even in my personal life, soo, in that sense, it truly is the GFE.
I also limit my selection and visits, and screen very well. I'm not looking for 60 dates a month, or 10 a day, or whatever, and don't put anyone down who does. I simply felt that if I were going to offer BBJ and DFK, then I would want to have a 'light' schedule.
As far as the PSE, BrookeApril is a PSE Provider that the SD gents have also visited with. She seems to be a fabulous lady and perhaps she could shed some light on the subject firsthand.
I hope this has been somewhat helpful.

Thanks,
Sedona

I think a public health mess like this should definitely be on their minds -- no matter how small their minds are.

-Hoot.

Hi Sedona!

Great reply, and thanks for the insight. I totally agree that you can make your own experience a PSE with your ATF. I think your approach to safety and willingness to provide that to your clients is class all the way.

Thanks so much for your reply!

HiProGlo

The article mentioned a few people. I'm guessing here, but the standard across the porn industry probably varies greatly, in terms of condom use, testing adherence, etc...

Small minds eh? Name me one California State Senator and his or her district number, without having to go on to the web and find it..........MfSD.

a) Taken With A Grain Of Valtrex
b) Welcome Back My Friends, To The Show That Never Ends
c) Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Before getting into the medical part of the discussion, a political overlay is necessary. I am no fan of the LA Times, it's not necessary to get into the reasons, but no matter whether it was the Chandlers (with the last two publishers, the odious cearal king Mark Gillies, and the extra odious terminal Beltway Fever victim and CIA-asset wannabe Shelby Coffey being particularly obnoxious, or their current owners, the Tribune Company (at least they are trying to bring back the concept of journalism to the newpaper), they have always want to give the Powers That Be the best BBBJ possible, with copious amounts of rimming. Their agenda is not to be trusted.

I will say this much about the unfortunate Ms. Ballowe/Ashley, while her situation is extraordinary*, would it be too much to assume that all her diseases were picked up on the set? You do enough (and perhaps one might be all that is necessary) PSEs, you can count on being exposed to HSV-II (genital Herpes), and almost equally likely HPV-16 or -18 (the two most common forms of papilloma associated with genital warts, and linked to cervical, and perhaps prostate cancer). Ask anyone over at AIM if you don't believe me. The good news regarding these particular microbes is that Valtrex does a pretty good job knocking out the virus and reduces frequency of outbreaks, and that vaccines for HPV-16 should be on the market by 2005. But the point I'm trying to make is that you lead a promiscuous lifestyle, condoms or no, you're still a favorite to acquire HSV-II or HPV.

If you have sex with many, many different people, needless to say, your chance of picking up an unwanted microbe or two almost becomes a surety. It's been that way for centuries, and the Times, IMO, is only restating the obvious to its political convenience. Moreover, this industry has never had any shortage of drugs floating around, and drugs tend to play havoc with one's immune system when abused. This is the price you pay for the hedonistic lifestle.

A recurring and heated discussion revolves around use of condoms in American-produced adult videos. Most American AV producers feel that they cannot compete with European producers if condoms are used: they feel it "ruins the fantasy". If you go to avn.com and do a search, or perhaps one on Google if AVN doesn't have a search feature,you can see several editorials and articles on the debate.

Even in the afterlife, I am not blind to the risks you take when dealing with professional sex partners. But please, no more sermons. What happened with Ms. Ashley and Mr Wallace (the working names of the persons  involved) was truly unfortunate, but more the extreme and not the norm. But we know the media finds reporting the extreme more profitable.

I know in the Great Disco In The Sky, 100 years from now, they'll still be playing "People Are Still Having Sex". It's pretty popular Up Here.

If you wish to communicate with me on this topic, you may reach me at [email protected]. Operators are standing by.



*recaping her medical history, CMV is almost always associated with AIDS, you have to work very, very hard to acquire Hep C, it generally involves doing a lot of drugs-most likely snappers or needles-and you really have to trainwreck your immune system. If she was a heavy drug user, then The Times is being irresponsible in not reporting this as well. FTR, I somehow tested negative for all forms of Hepatitis last year, and I would categorize my sexual activity as being fairly high risk for a heterosexual male.



-- Modified on 1/13/2003 11:19:15 AM

I can't refute some of your logic. But I still think that you could be deluding yourself if you think that nonpornstar escorts are safer. Depending on what you do with the provider you will have risks.

The real proof in the pudding would be if any hobbyists or how many ever caught anything from a PS provider? And of course validating that claim would be next to impossible.

The only thing I can think of is this.. If the risk was so significant this has been going on long enough that you would think alot of hobbyists would be sharing under their private alias' that the risk is too great and you would see a drop off in demand for these ladies. The Free market system has a way of doing that...

I found this on the web, sounds like your chance of contracting HIV is pretty remote even if going the unprotected route.  


---------------------

Yes, a BJ is safer than FS. Covered is safer than uncovered. Safer is not the same as safe, however. Using condoms does not guarantee safety and failing to use condoms does not guarantee instant death. A condom does reduce the frequency of infection. Stated another way it increases the mean time between infections – that and nothing more.

I’m old enough to remember sex in the early 1980’s. In my experience nobody back then used condoms. The obvious reason for the change in attitude since then is HIV and I will limit myself to HIV for the rest of this analysis. However, you should remember that other common STIs are 200 to 700 times more infectious than HIV so the numbers apply only to HIV.

Basically, HIV has changed having sex into a kind of Russian Roulette.

There are two questions: (1) Is there a bullet in one of the chambers of the cylinder of the revolver? And (2) If there is, or might be, a bullet in one of the chambers, how many chambers are there in the revolver’s cylinder (i.e., what is my risk of dying when I spin the cylinder and pull the trigger)?

If your partner isn’t infected with HIV the gun is empty. You can spin the cylinder and pull the trigger all you want and you aren’t going to die. This is why I have become a missionary for routine STI testing. (I go to the AIM clinic in Los Angeles.) No, the tests aren’t perfect, false negatives and false positives exist, but I have become convinced that the tests are pretty darn good. No, the tests don’t protect you, but if you are responsible in your behavior they protect everybody else. And your partner’s tests protect you. If we all get tested on a regular basis we certainly can reduce the incidence of HIV (and other STIs) in the population and that protects everyone.

Right now the incidence of HIV in the heterosexual population is estimated to be under 1% which means that if you don’t know your partner’s HIV status there is about 1 chance in 100 that the gun is loaded.

Let’s assume that your partner is HIV positive. If you are male the chance that you will become infected in a single act of uncovered sexual intercourse is about 1 in 1000. (If you are female and your partner is infected the odds are estimated at being about 1 in 500.) The other way of saying this is that the mean time to infection is 1000 acts of sexual intercourse. Or to pursue the Russian Roulette analogy, the cylinder of the revolver has 1000 chambers.

Note that a BJ is about 10 times less risky (i.e., the cylinder has 10,000 chambers).

Now, the $64,000 question is “How does wearing a condom affect the odds?”

I wish I knew the answer to that one. Most authorities assume that if the condom doesn’t break or slip that you are completely safe. A study (which I unfortunately can’t locate) done at the Mustang Ranch in Nevada indicates that with experienced users the condom failure rate may be as low as 1%. A study that I cited in an earlier post used 3%. Most authorities use 5% for the general population. However, a very disturbing study I have cited (the couples study done in Haiti) puts the effective failure rate at 15%. Put in other words the infection rate of couples not using condoms was 6.8 times the infection rate of couples using condoms consistently and correctly.

Take your pick. Condoms increase the mean time to infection by somewhere between 6.8 and 100 times. Or to go back to the Russian Roulette analogy, if you are having sexual intercourse with a condom the gun has 6,800 chambers to 100,000 chambers in the cylinder (for a male – half that number for a lady). Very unlikely, but not impossible, that when you pull the trigger you are going to die if one of those chambers is loaded.

How safe is safe enough? Consider a lady who plans on working 20 years and expects to have intercourse 500 times a year and wants to keep her lifetime risk of becoming HIV positive under 1%. She needs to keep the risk of becoming infected with any given sex act to less than 1 in 1,000,000. Given the current heterosexual infection rate of about 1% having sex without a condom with a partner who has an unknown HIV status is about 20 times too risky and giving a BBBJ is too risky by a factor of 2 but covered FS is acceptable if you assume that condoms reduce the risk by a factor of 20. If condoms only reduce the risk by a factor of 7 they aren’t safe enough to allow having sex 10,000 times with persons of unknown HIV status unless you are willing to accept more than a 1% chance of becoming infected.

Of course, if you are 65 like me and figure that you’ve only got another 5 years left to enjoy yourself and expect to have sex less than 50 times a year you are looking at less than 250 acts of sex. The risk calculation comes out somewhat differently when you are looking at 250 spins of the cylinder instead of 10,000 (plus the male risk is about half the female risk per spin anyway).

I would like to add that there is risk just sitting at your computer reading the messages. I don’t know how many of you know this but we came very close to having a very bad day on June 14. Not as bad as the dinosaurs had 65 million years ago, but pretty bad. On June 14 an asteroid missed the earth by only 75,000 miles. It is the closest miss since 1994 and only the fifth time an object is known to have passed inside the orbit of the moon since the near earth asteroid detection program began. Most disturbing is that the object wasn’t even detected until June 17 – three days after closest approach. (It approached from the direction of the sun.) It wasn’t a large object as these things go. It was only about 100 meters in diameter. It wouldn’t have caused a disaster of global proportions. However, it would have been in the same league as the object that flattened 1200 square miles of forest in Siberia in 1908.

1. Newspapers publish articles in order to sell newspapers.  They usually pick the most extreme examples and statistics to sensationalize the subject being reported.  It is almost like the local television news axiom about "if it bleeds it leads".    

2. As Sedona suggested some of the pornstars or other providers may be able to provide some additional information on this story.  However as someone else suggested do you really expect a pornstar is going to tell you that she routinely has unprotected intercourse with male pornstars and is not sure whether they have been recently tested for aids or other STD's.

As usual everybody should take what they read with a large grain of salt and will have to try to sort truth from fiction and make their own decisions.

In my earlier posts I made no comparisons between PS's and other providers--so no, I am not deluding myself.  Earlier you accused me of being biased against PS's, well I think you're biased towards them.

Again, my point was that I thought the porn industry was run much differently.  You claimed in an earlier post that you had "researched" the PSE and felt is was safer than seeing  other providers.  I'd like to see your research.  Did your research show that over a 6 month period 40% of porn actors had at least one STD?  Or that their rate for clamydia was 57 times what the DHS considers epidemic?  Or that 13% had gonorrhea compared to 1/10 of 1% of the population of the state of California?  As you say yourself, validating that a hobbyist contracted an STD from a PS would be nearly impossible.  So again, please site the research you speak of.

Now I am certain that the STD rates for escorts, street walkers, MP girls etc., is also higher than the general population.  But the porn industry has claimed for a long while that they DO test and they ARE safe.  The article refutes this claim and makes me more wary than I was before I read it.

I guess you are right.   Since I don't know any state California senators or their district numbers (I live in NY), the California legislature has no responsibility in this matter.

-Hoot.

He's actually a good guy but of course sort of a pervert. I met him when he came into a club I danced at.

Anyway, we got to be friends so I used to hang out over there once in awhile and always had porn chicks over there and in his medicine cabinets he kept jumbo generic bottles of penicillin, erythromycin, sulfa drugs for them - a real variety of antibiotics to deal with the constant infections that popped up, some benign like UTIs and non specific urethritis or vaginitis. He had some doctor in his pocket who kept the antibiotics refilled when he needed them. Huge piles of used sex toys were tossed in bedside drawers and never sterilized. Is it any wonder someone always had something?

People in this industry are not known for having it all together. Lots of people seem to have sort of a death wish. The porn star spoken of in the story, Anne Marie Ballowe had the stage name of Brooke Ashley and she was an anal queen. At the time she got infected, she participated in a 50 guy anal gang bang where condoms were optional. Not saying she deserved to get HIV, but it certainly isn't a big surprise, is it?

More info on her (and other porn stars) at www.lukeford.com

http://www.lukeford.com/stars/female/brooke_ashley.html

You're right.

Well there's porn and there's porn, you know - as someone mentioned, there are certainly companies and individuals who are careful about having current tests done, but there's also a lot who aren't.  It would be a matter of knowing the individual people involved.  But certainly, the myth that the porn industry is all about safety is just that, a myth.

-Anya

Sounds pretty typical of most shoots to me.

-Anya

another enchanting tidbit was related to me by my amiga in the a.v. business... this is a game where the ante is upped every production cycle, thus, unprotected anal is *de rigeur* because the consuming audience won't buy your masterpiece otherwise. Double anal is even better, i.e. more profitable for the production company/distributor, but the actress won't see much of that green, even if she has anal sex with a giraffe while in freefall over the grand canyon...

what you don't see is the ugly physical trauma that these women sustain, but is edited out. She tells me that you see frequent anal bleeding after the sex scenes. They have to stop the shoot while the actress puts an ice pack on her bum. Sometimes the bleeding is heavy enough that they have to stop shooting or bring in another actress at the last minute. The production companies are totally indiscriminate. They'll pick up the phone and start calling around, and basically whoever shows up first gets the next dorking.

The colo-rectal trauma is serious enough that a number of these women cannot sleep without major painkillers (vicoden, dilaudid, percodan, Tylenol 4) for days after a shoot.

I just read this article and I must say it is a very good piece. I have also read the responses here and the one thing I must say is that STD's, including HIV, are out there regardless of who you are seeing. Whether you go to the brothels in Nevada, see a provider in your area, head down to TJ, or even meet a nice girl at a bar, you should be smart about what can happen! If everyone were careful and educated about the situations surrounding us, we wouldn't be facing problems like this. Unfortunately the only person you can trust is yourself, so I hope everyone realizes this and plays it safe. Take care

As I have stated before, eventhough a Provider does her part and is tested every six months, as I am,or that you ALWAYS use a cover....It doesn't mean you can get lazy guys.....Unless you want to wrap your body in plastic-wrap(BOOTY CALL) and wear rubber gloves too, you need to get educated....I've read reviews about vaginal "stench"...and wonder why DATY and yet wear a cover..!!! HELLO...!!! You have to educate yourself on what to look for...use smell and touch.....If it doesn't look good (sores, redness, cottage-cheese like discharge) or smell good(metalic,sour,rotten,onion,smell) DON"T GO THERE...!!! Covered or not. If you have raw patches on your cock....be careful(heavy or rough masterbation)any std needs a point of enterance....be ware....DON"T PICK UP STREET HOOKERS/HIGH VOLUME PROVIDERS....look for track marks or rough patches on tatoos( IV Drud users). You need to know that HEP.B, Herpes aren't transferable unless they are infectious(Very visable...Learn what to look for)states. Vaginal transfer of HIV is the second lowest means of transfer, second only to Lesbian sex, which is 0. HIV is not this strong, tuff virus...It's the weakest of all strains of STD's, starts to die 5 sec. after contact with the air....So stop all the HYSTERICS...!!!! Education, Education Education..Condoms will not make you Bullet-Proof...Pay attention.!!!

Thank God..!! Prof.Nite, 40something, STUMPY and Mymouse....You are Awesome..!!! My Heros.!! You seem to be the only true voices of reason here....As I posted earlier, education is the best tool for safe sex, rather with a SP,PS, or the girl next door...Thank you all for echoing my sentiments EXACTLY...I LOVE YOU GUYS..!!!!

i haven't found the article, so i can only guess about its contents. sorry, but as i look around me, i don't see the evidence of rampant hiv among the hetero community. and if it were as wide spread as they would have you believe, then pretty much everyone would have it by now. that this provider, i know, who deep tongues every hobbyist she meets, and all the providers of her liberality, would have been the conduit to kill off half the population of this nations heteros by now. this is the image that some people will have you believe. but it's not quite so, is it?

i, for one, believe that hiv is very hard to spread even in unprotected hetero sex. there is an assumption that sex is the spreader, when it could just as easily be that rampant drug use could be the villian. like it is ASSUMED that magic johnson got his hiv from sex. they know this for a fact? just because magic said he was sex-orgy crazy, people say oh well, THAT'S why, of course. they got the gal who gave it to him?,,,or maybe it was a HE, hmmm? has anyone come up to sue magic, in this litigious age we live in? no,,,,it is ASSUMED that sex was the culprit,,,,straight sex.


i don't believe it for a minute. but it IS a political ploy by the gay community to involve the hetero community in its woes. well, this has been losing steam, and all you have to do is look around you to see the atmosphere has changed between then(10-20 years ago) and now.

like i said, we'd all be burying each other by now if hiv was as spreadable as they say. i take my normal precautions, but i don't fall for this overhyped scare.

the betrayal of a friendship and the ugly coverup by supposingly pillars of the porn industry.  I have more respect for Ed Power after reading that article.

That is some article. I think that Lara (oneyummyblonde) on our SD board has also posted some very good material and argument.
At work, since we are possibly subjected to exposure to HepB, we have routine vaccinations available as well as mandatory reviewing of the presentation. I don't recall the figures, but it was something like 800 times more likely to contract HepB than HIV. That's astounding.
I was also surprised to learn that when I go in every 6 months and ask the HMO Doc to run the gamut on STD's that it didn't include any testing of Herpes (too expensive) nor, of course, the Genital Warts. I had presumed 'everything' meant EVERYTHING.
I'm actually more fearful of Herpes and GW than anything else, particularly offering DFK and BBJ, etc. So, you might want to ask what is included in your testing..
And, I agree, Silky, and MyMouse, that anybody can get anything, just as 'good' girls CAN get pregnant (wow - haven't heard that in a while, huh?) and so I'm not trying to insult PS, or TJ ladies or anything. You all have to do what you have to do, make decisions you do, to keep your own standards of protection observance. That just happens to be mine. Limit here, limit there in exchange for a compromise like BBJ, etc.

Hope this made sense. Thanks for the input, all.

xo
Sedona

What if you had sex with a woman who was dating a man who was playing footsy with an HIV-infected porn starlet.  So no I too am not familiar with Ca. politians but, I don't think people should die.

just my 1/2 cent

L

-- Modified on 1/14/2003 7:36:52 PM

Right On Bertie...!!! That's what I'M, talkin Bout..!! What most of you don't realize is who's getting rich off of all the hype....THE CONDOM IND. & PHARM.CO...Multi-Billion $ Businesses.!!! It's in their best interest to scare the HELL out of us all....20 years ago, condoms wore gooves in your wallet, while today we go through them like toilet-paper....Educate Educate Educate....

if it's all hype, why do you bother with the expense and effort of condoms ?

fer instance. i used to do a lot of DATY. it was my favorite. then, one day, at the store i saw a gal who had,,,,,,this NASTY stuff around her mouth. it was disgusting. pimples and boils and crusty whatevers. i never knew what that was, but i imagined what it might have been. i haven't daty-ed since.

there is a fantastic provider here in nyc, with whom i know i can do almost anything i want. therefore there are things i won't do for that very reason. because i don't feel she is that cautious.

of all the catchable disease, hiv is the one i worry about least.

listen, if you're cautious ,,,fine. if it's because of hiv, i say ok too, but i feel there is a unified effort directed to the hetero. i recall a new york mag article about 4-7 years ago where it was admitted that the numbers are exagerrated for the sake of the movement(read that the aids awareness in the hetero community).

look at how all the ads you see are carefully orchestrated. when they show people, saying beware, these people are like you and me and our girlfriends and wives. who they're trying to involve is quite clear, when a more accurate depiction should be druggies and queens.

i'd like somebody to show me definitively that some hetero with hiv can point to an exact hetero sex moment that he( and i say emphatically HE because i think women can pick it up easier) contracted hiv. the magic johnson scenario is a perfect example of what i mean. can it be told exactly who and when this moment was? where's the fallout from this man's lifestyle? where's the other women he popped who have contracted this? this man who had orgies galore. and like i said, i think for a man it's easier to give than to recieve. where are all the lawsuits, in this era of lawsuits? here is a man, however, who DID have something to lose if it were perceived that he had contracted hiv through other less-manly endeavors,,,,gay sex in an orgy situation,,,drugs.

every few years, hiv reports pop up to regroup more steam, steam that has been lost since a decade or two ago when the thoughts of aids changed everyone's, including my, lifestyle. but it is years later now and we should have, at the very least, a state's population full of hetero men with hiv.

i'm more worried about other diseases. i'm more worried about getting an operation. i'm more woried about some nut scratching people or somesuch.

Not sure what you mean "a problem with unprotected sex". I do believe in education, paying attention to suspicious lifestyle habits, being selective sexually...But do I believe we need to use OVERKILL means to protect us..? NO...If you know the facts and apply them to your activities, I don't believe condoms are always necessary. What most folks don't understand is that if the "Giver" is infected, the condom can protect the "recipient". A condom does nothing for the giver. Nothing is going to crawl up...It's all traveling down...Vaginal transference is .02%. I'm in more danger in my car than I am in the bedroom...Bottom line is...If your preference is a $20 crack whore, than you aren't going to be coming to see me. If you enjoy high volume girls, you won't want me. Some clients need the false security of a condom and I have no problem with that and do make them available...it's about freedom of choice...and last time I looked, this was still america.

Vaginal transference of WHAT is .02% ? Can you cite a reference for this statistic ?

once had a rude case of non-specific urethritis that lasted six months... icky drippy stinging mess... no coffee, no alcohol, one beer would set it off, and no sex... did I mention, no condom either... all from a lovely lass in her early twenties...

madam, please wise up... pathogens can crawl up, onto, around, behind, anywhere they want to go. They couldn't care less if this is America, Costa Rica, or Siberia.

I think you are either incredibly naive or in a massive state of denial.

Use condoms. They work as intended.

Yes and Pathogens can get there other ways as well...that's why women that don't know how to wipe themselves correctly get yeast infections....Do you wear rubber gloves as well...? Since fingering an unclean pussy is much more dangerous than uncovered intercourse...You just may have a paper-cut...Do you even recall looking at or smelling this young Pussy that has bittered you so.? I'm thinking, had you checked a little closer, your "Rude case" most likely could have been avoided...Yes, if one does not pay attention, thinks with the little Head first and wants to be lazy....Condoms are the way to go...I prefer to take an active part in staying safe...Education....

well,,,you went through pain, and THAT is what i protect myself against. but you're alive, and it's the hiv that i worry least about.

any cuts?,,then no sex for me, or at least extra precaution + a bandaid. too much masturbation make the skin break?,,again, no sex. i can wait till the bruise goes away.