I wanted to find out everyone's point of view on this subject.  I know that references are not mandatory, so why do we ladies even bother to go through the process of asking for them? I ask because, I was always led to believe, when first starting (over 3 years ago), that it was something that we providers were all doing. Now, more and more providers are refusing to use them (their choice). So should all providers just stop using references, and just accept employment info, instead? How will/does this affect the men in the hobby, if all providers stopped using them?  I would love to see both sides of the fence here from both providers and hobbyists. I also wanted to add how does a hobbyist feel when trying to provide a reference, that the reference he is providing, is refusing to give out any information to the provider he is wanting to see? I actually had an incident where a hobbyist was attempting to make an appt. with me, and I had written to another provider several times, no response from her, until at the end of 2 weeks saying that she doesn't give out references at all. By then, the hobbyist was frustrated and moved on elsewhere. I can say that it was very frustrating on my end too. I did ask him for employment, but he was very stringent on just giving me the reference instead (his choice).

-- Modified on 3/10/2004 7:20:47 AM

References are better for me. I'm an artist and do not have a "Place of Employment", or at least one you could really verify.

I do remember how it was prior to me having anyone willing to give me a reference. It was hard to get verified. I was actually refused a date with Cherokee. (a crying shame!)

I totally get the reasons for security and am willing to participate. I think that any process that helps assure a mutual security is a good thing. Many thanks to TER for that!

I am 59 and have been retired 2 1/2 years so there is no employment verification possible. I use only TER when I'm looking to 'hook up'. My photo barely resembles me because, for a joke, I shaved my beard just before going to get my license renewed. Of course I grew it back immediately. I have written a few reviews here on TER so I'm easy to check out here because most of my ladies are stable providers and well known. I have only seen one provider that was not listed here on TER.
How would you verify me with today's LE climate in so many areas?
Thank you,
TF

I know the provider. Arizona has been so hot lately, that unless I know who the provider is, I don't see it as a valuable tool for verifying.
Why, because I'm not sure if it can be a way of entrapment, and I feel it gives us a false sense of security to providers.
I greatly appreciate the tool that TER has become for hobbyist and providers that I wouldn't mind verifying this way for hobbyist like TF who don't have a place of employment but do have a "few" reviews. ;0)

Play safe.......play hard and kisses to you ~CarleeofArizona

I've never provided reference or any screening other than my full name once before going to see someone from an agency.  I have only been in the hobby a couple of years and haven't seen anyone often enough to feel comfortable asking for a reference.  I think I am fortunate to be able to find independent providers who don't require references.

I do recognize that providers have to take care of their safety and if references or screening information is someone's choice for ensuring safety, I certainly can't fault them for that.  I also recognize that those who choose to screen probably aren't hurting for business at all if they provide good service.  But for me right now, its just too much of a hassle to provide screening information.  I'm not saying that I won't in the future.  I also trust that the providers I do see have some other method of ensuring their safety or at least reducing their risk for harm.  I do think the provider's actual safety and feeling of safety is important.  Things are so much more comfortable when the provider isn't worried that I might hurt them or that I am LE and when we both have some idea of what to expect (not a exactly what to expect, I do like some spontanaeity ).  But as I said, I'm glad that there are methods other than providing screening info over the phone or in email.

Well, first you'd have to look at what a Reference is in the first place and why one wants to have one, and how it's used.

The first part of the Screening (italics) process is ID-ing your prospective client. How do you ID someone? If he says he's Joe Schmo, then what does he have to prove his identity?
Once you're comfortable with who he IS, then you need to be comfortable with who he is NOT (ie shiny badge and holster).
You'll have to figure out how to do that and of course that's not made public on the boards.

Once comfortable with who he is and who he is not, then you might feel much more at ease if you had something that at least gave you an idea that he's not an axe murderer, but is instead a nice, clean, respectable (and respectful) gentleman. And that's where references come in. That comfort zone that just says somebody else saw him and they weren't harmed, or robbed, etc.

The mistake people make is in using references AS their ID or 'ticket' in. I'm not saying that DOESN'T happen, or that that doesn't work.
And I have made very rare, and very few exceptions but that was because all the 'connections' were very well in place. I like to refer to that as the 'Speakeasy' way from (was it?) the '20's (?), where you had to know the 'password' to get in, and only those who were 'in the know' could have ever possibly had it. To a certain extent, I agree with one poster who felt we were reverting back to some of those ways.

I do use references, yes, but NOT in PLACE OF any screening process. They still need to do that. But, I trust ME, and they can trust ME (not to be a nut case, pyscho bitch from hell provider who will go to their Employer, call their wife, etc.).
They just have to know they can trust me. Sometimes I start there, and then screen and sometimes the other way around.

But, if they can't provide the necessary information, it's usually a no-go. Figure it this way, too. I like to have someone know where I am and who I'm with at all times. If I were missing, and the last person to see me was 'Bill' and that's all I have, how can anybody figure out anything with that? Your safety is too important.
And if all he provided was a reference from a Provider that you don't know from the man on the moon, what does that do?

And I CERTAINLY hope, once your client has arrived, or you've arrived, that you check his ID (DL, etc.). VERY IMPORTANT step that can't be missed. And, of course, call-check-ins (at least 2) with your appointed security person for that day.


-- Modified on 3/10/2004 12:11:08 PM

We have ways of dealing with that, and that is not an excuse for using references ONLY, but the info can still be provided and she should know how to use that info to get the clearance she needs.

Then, your reference will help to show you were a gentleman, and not a rip off.

Make sense?

I would think that a reference from another well known provider would be best.

What I don't get is the request to see an ID. The bad guys can and will fake an ID and it is more apt to happen with LE using fake ID's. Actually they don't need to use a fake ID at all because a DL doesn't say whether the person is LE or not. It is also very easy to set up a fake business, yellow page ad and all.

Just my thoughts, it's all about your personal safety level and your clients comfort with giving you his life history or not.

countered it.

I haven't been hobbying long and I do not hobby much, so my ability to provide a reference is limited. Also, I travel a great deal so unless I plan far in advance, a provider is not likely to find me at my work number.

I use both roomservice2000 and date-check. It works for me and I find it convenient not having to give the same screening info repeatedly. Also date-check lets you get verified.

Alot of guys including myself will not give out work information. I too as a client have had to go to other providers who don't require work numbers.

In terms of references I have given them to providers and providers had funny requirements about the references they accept. So as a result I am only seeing providers who don't require references or phone numbers.

What references and work numbers do is keep the hour rate down.  Providers limit the supply of available clients they can see.

I have used references from a provider and verification through my place of employment.  Before I give out my POE information I am very sure that the provider is ligit and I go through how the inquiry should go once I am contacted.  I actually prefer the POE method because it gives me the freedom to try new, legit providers.

EOM

Hello to eveyone,

I myself prefer references, but have encountered a few instances were providers (who boasted about "sisterhood") refused to give references. It's total BS. If I were a hobbyist--I wouldn't want to give each and every provider I might be interested in seeing my private (employment, etc.) info. Provider references just makes things a lot easier for both parties. Unfortunately, there are those providers who feel as though they OWN a client and get pissed when they decide to sample new meat....go figure. My way of thinking is totally different---I truly believe one hand washes the other and I am always pleased to help.

just my .02, Jessie xo always happy to help

References are very important to me. I will not see anyone who cannot give me something viable that will make me feel comfortable about him and his personality. It's easy to give a fake work number. Anyone can do that and have the police waiting on the line to answer the call and verify that so-and-so works for them. However, if the gentleman is from out of town, gives me a work number, cell number and another provider reference, then I feel much happier and safer about seeing him.

Just my two cents,
Ciara

And I plan on becoming known as one of the most difficult screeners out there. I don't have a choice.

I have noticed the same trend with new ladies entering the endeavor refusing to provide a reference. I think it has a lot to do with the mindset of losing coveted clientele, but do not think they realize that they end up shooting themselves in the foot with refusals.

I will never stop using that option, but I am picky about the references I do accept because of the risks involved with virtual unknowns.  The reference must be from an established reputable lady and because of that, I haven't really had a problem in that department. Those ladies seem to have a better understanding of gentlemens needs and know that just because he has chosen to see me on one particular day, doesn't mean that he will not visit with her again and many times it has led to arrangements that are beneficial to both ladies.

Lauren
[email protected]

Not really. I would not give a name of a reference without asking first. I would only ask someone that I belived would be discreet.

As for the provider I am giving the reference too, I do my homework here first on TER to make sure she is someone I would like to see.

Different ladies have different ideas about what constitutes good or adequate information.  Guys have different comfort zones about what information they're willing to give out.  Any ID information can be misused, and sometimes is.  I'm not accusing anyone in particular, but it does happen, and SOMEBODY's doing it.  Given a little intelligence and good will on both sides it can always be worked out.

As to "a fading fad?"  Yes, in this limited sense: a few years ago it became popular to think of references as THE fail-safe screening method.  Well, surprise!  It didn't work out that way.  

I still think references are one good, if limited, tool in the kit.  Of course a guy should always clear it with a lady that it's OK to use her for a reference before doing so.  That avoids a lot of problems.

I've got more thoughts on the subject but this post is already long enough.

1. I've visited an agency girl, and the new provider I want to see accepts references only from independents.

2. My reference gal is no longer in the business. Most of the providers I've visited (and reviewed) have retired.

3. I'm not sure my reference gal will even remember me. I mean, I hobby at the MOST four times a year, so how's a gal going to remember me after three or more months? I'm REALLY conventional in my desires (one gal once called me Mr. Vanilla) so I don't stand out. "Do you remember Relky from the Sheraton last December?" I've pondered the possiblity of giving the gal some kind of unique gift at the start of our encounter (for example, a pineapple with a rose sticking out of it with a Victoria Secret gift certificate), but have yet to do so.

I don't mind going through a screening process, but if a provider wants a reference, I'm out of luck.

Besides, I've seen too many postings about providers giving references for guys who the really don't rememeber all that well.

Here in the great hobby city of Houston, we have an abundance of spa/salons available.
I don't have independent provider references, because I don't see indy providers. Don't need too. Hell, I've never been screened!! The only information I give is my first name, and the call back number to my prepaid cell phone. THATS IT!!

If I want an outcall, I call one of the spa girls that I have seen on a regular basis and since she already knows me,she meets me were ever I want. NO SCREENING. No problem.

Convenience is the name of the game for me, and believe me,I agree with all you indy's out there when it comes to your safety procedures. Ya'lls(yes i'm a Texan)well being is at the highest risk and you should do everything in your power to ensure that you don't become a victim.

Provider references and screening are necessary for the safety of independent providers. Like I said, I agree...BUT,for myself it is an inconvenience. I have chosen to walk down a different path and it works for me.

Just my .02