I understand the level of e-mail traffic providers receive, not to mention phone calls and IMs.  But, I recently had a situation that's left a sour taste in my mouth:

I'd been planning a business trip to a Northern California city, did some research on TER, and found a provider who seemed like a good fit.  I sent her a short, simple e-mail introducing myself, telling her when I'd be in her area and the length of appointment I'd like (at least three hours and possibly overnight).  Incidentally, I sent my message about a month before my planned trip.  I asked her to please let me know via return e-mail if she was interested and if so, how she'd like me to proceed.  I included my real first name and a phone number.

After about two weeks, I received no reply.  I figured she'd thought she'd seen something in my message that rang a warning bell, or that she wasn't interested for some other reason.  So, I sent her a second message (with the first attached) saying I was sorry things hadn't worked out, and thanked her anyway.

THAT prompted an immediate response asking me what was wrong.

Why?

How hard would it have been for this lady to send me a message saying she was interested?  It wouldn't have taken much longer than it did to ask me what was wrong.  As a result of her initial delay, however, I had to make other plans.  So, she lost out on a multiple-hour session and possibly even one that ran overnight.  I might have even asked her if she'd be interested in having one of her female friends join us (her web site indicated this as an option).  But instead, everyone lost.

If the lady's second message had said she'd never received the first, I'd have continued to pursue the appointment.  But, her second message implied she HAD seen the first, but simply hadn't answered.  I'd have even understood if she'd replied saying she preferred not to make arrangements so far in advance, and that I should e-mail her again, closer to the intended date.  

But this kind of response (or lack thereof) rings MY warning bell; if this is the way she manages the correspondence end of her business, how dependable will she be when the time comes for her to actually show up?

Am I being too tough here?  Ladies, do you have any insights?  Thanks.


-- Modified on 4/24/2004 3:02:41 AM

I am not one of the ladies, but I have found that one month in advance is way beyond the time line most providers like to plan around.  But I have to agree with the general frustration.  I sent out about 6 emails about a week before a trip and got no responses until 2 days before I left with the bulk of responses coming after I returned despite clearly indicating which nights I had free etc.  
It can be frustrating.  

and it doesn't make sense.

In the sales and service business...anytime a potential client contacted us...We treat it like gold...My term, and certainly used by many others, "a money call".

Depending on how one responded to that call, it could make or break your potential for "closing" the deal.

It's the same way with this hobby and I'm sure it comes down to either providers that are inexperienced,too busy,poorly managed or just simply indifferent.I'm sure the providers will follow up with specific reasons and problems why this happens.

I recently exchanged more than several PM's with a provider from the West Coast and even assisted her on hotel/flight web sites ,locations of hotels, and weather reports.I should have taken a hint on one of her messages that she wasn't "looking to be a pen pal" but I kind of laughed when I read it.. cause her reviews indicate she's a bit of "rip"...lol....but she "gets down and dirty" once the session begins. I had clearly communicated my unavailability for last night and this weekend.Next thing you know, she's on her way here and there is a 2 day blackout of ZERO communication from her.Finally get a PM from her late yesterday saying she would love to see me.
Grrrr.

On the return side,If I'm on appointments(strictly business and on ocasion,hobby time...lol)...I'm not always locked into a computer so the provider should not expect an immediate response from me...but most certainly within a 4 hour time frame after they message me...So to be fair,communication is a two way street.
As for the provider in question, I politely PM'd her back and reminded her about my weekend unavailability and told her to enjoy the city and be safe...she seems like an "up n cumer" so I aked her to keep a "rain" check for me.As of this morning,I havn't heard back.YIPES!...but par for the course...lol

Not to worry...I had a tremendous tryst, yesterday afternoon
on a recommendation from a fellow TER hobbyist.Swweeeet!
The communication and arrangements were made very easily in the morning, and the afternoon luving went as "smooth as silk".

The message here is that there are always other fish in the sea
and in business that means lost clients to competition.

Communication is vital!

Cheers!

-- Modified on 4/24/2004 4:49:01 AM

VonRyan...your posts are always great to read...I agree totally with the 'good business' side of the equation.  When I do get a reply within about 24h, with a clear indication of when I can make an appointment, I know things will work smoothly and I dump all the others I have sent a message to.  Being organized reflects organization on all fronts including self care, respect for the business, etc.  That first communication is key!

I have reacted the same way to similar situations - assumed the lady did not want to see me and sent a "thanks anyway" note. Two weeks seems reasonable.

Your post and Turkana's post a few threads down have something in common, I think. I have lately started taking the approach of only seeing ladies who want to see me.

I truly appreciate gentleman who are able to plan that far in advance... its often the only way to ensure that they can book the time that is most convenient to them!  Please do not be discouraged...

I am in a service oriented business and treat my "clients" and potential clients like gold.  Being reliable and responding in a reasonable amount of time is not only courteous but it is also good for business.

Unfortuneately, some (not all) of the more popular providers simply fill their schedules and move on.  I think this type of behavior is more common with younger, newer providers. They know that a constant stream of requests keep pouring in so they must assume they don't have to reply as long as they have a full schedule. It's unfortunate because they may miss out on a potential "regular." On the other hand, they apparently believe they have as much work as they can handle.  I guarantee you'll hear from them when their schedule has openings.

I mention the reciprocal. If I can't get the info I need, and/or it's taking too many back and forth of emails, calls, etc for too many days, to get what I need to proceed, I have to pass. I can't waste time trying to do something that should only take an email or two, or a day or two of waiting to hear back.
In that post, I mention that maybe if things were better MANAGED, the ladies would be more on time, less likely to forget, or flake, etc. but knowing 'people' in general, that's probably not true..they'd still probably flake anyway.
It's all in the MANAGEMENT and you can look around you and watch people in any part of your life and see whether or not they are good managers of time, money and resources.

You're saying you provided everything upfront, given her all that she needs, and now you're just waiting for a response. ANY response, and then, nothing. I can't understand that. I DO try to answer all my emails, and all my PM's and my voice mails.

NOW my VOICE mails are a different animal...!
If they leave a message, and a number but a) don't tell me up to what time can I safely return their call, or b) if I can't return their call by that 'safe' time, then what is the alternate for me to return their call? (such as another time, another number, an email address, etc.) THEN THE CALL ISN'T RETURNED. I can't take a risk that I am calling them during an 'unsafe' time, therefore, I don't return the call and just hope they either call me again, or are smart enough to leave a private email address I can use.

Sometimes email doesn't work right, or they are 'down' or maybe the ladies haven't paid a bill or two and so they don't have access, or were traveling or out of town and didn't have access... but then you'd think they'd mention it? I dunno...

It seems to me that even a simple reply to someone is good business and good manners. How hard is it to send an email saying you cannot make it or you're interested and please give me the details. I'm sorry this happened to you, but don't give up. Some of us are worth the wait.

Hugs,
Ciara

...as long as there is no "organized" confusion during the session.
But...that's what makes TER so great as the sessions have always been plenty of fun for me.An educated hobbyiest is the providers best customer(stole a slogan...at least part of one from Sly Slims, a NY clothing retailer)


Cheers!

It happens alot...I wrote a thread on LA board about year ago about lack of common courtesy from providers...

It hard to understand sometimes...You're trying to give someone business & they just blow you off, it's frustrating.....I mean, & I hope this analogy works, if I was a business owner (restaurant, travel agency, etc.) I would be thrilled when someone wants to spend their money at my establishment, as they have plenty of other choices out there...And I sure would do everything I could to make sure they are satisfied customers...

Porn stars in particular can be very difficult....I've had several no responses to sincere e-mails, I've had appts. tenatively scheduled, then I never hear from them again...

But I've also have gotten no responses from other non-porn star providers as well...Furthermore, I had 2 no-shows after appts. were scheduled on a Phoenix trip back in Feb.....

This is why you always need to have back-up plans in place....

This isn't a traditional business where we sit at a desk all day long, answering the phone and reading each email immediately. If I could sit at at a desk for 8 hours every day, I'd be the most organized girl in town, LOL.

There are many reasons why emails don't get read or responded to, and not because the lady is simply rude or flakey (although that happens too). Assuming the email itself is polite and informative, the provider may be out of town or having computer problems. She may be interrupted when reading email and then loses track of where she was. If it's late at night or she's ill, she won't concentrate as well as she should.

Sometimes I've even deleted "real" email when I was busy deleting a bunch of spam--more likely to happen if the subject heading is vague, like "Hi", or just left blank.  

So, have a prominent heading like APPOINTMENT REQUEST that won't be overlooked. That always gets my full attention.

Another problem with my particular email server is that occasionally AOL and hotmail "hiccup" for a day or two and won't accept my emails, and the person does not get the message. The only way I know is if someone writes back and says he never heard from me. Usually, by that time, the AOL hiccup is better, and they do get my emails from then on.

So, guys, if you don't hear back within a few days, ALWAYS send a second email.

Regarding LOW's situation in particular, some providers don't want to schedule too far in advance because of travel or other issues, and she may ignore your request because she can't accomodate it (I know it is wrong to ignore it, but it happens.) In that case, contact her again about two weeks later. By then your name will be familiar and her schedule should be more firm so she can hopefully get a chance to meet you.

Finally, even if a provider never responds to your emails, don't send angry or sarcastic letters unless you truly want to burn bridges. What if you find out later she was on vacation? Oops!

By that I mean they don't want to tell you that they only see white guys or black guys exclusively or only professionals.  They don't want it leaked out that they only see certain type of clients.  I had emailed a provider one time and never got a response.  Sent a second email later in the week. still no response.  Turns out she only sees guys of the KKK clan but doesn't put it on her website so as not to appear racist. I have no respect for those types of providers.  I respect those providers who have the guts to put it upfront on their website.  Saves me a lot of hassle and frustration.

The following seems to work for me.

Hi XXXX,

I found your website via TER, and if you don't mind me saying, you are absolutely beautiful.  I checked out your reviews and I think that I'd like to meet you.

I know, you need a little more information than above.  Well, here goes.  My name is XXXX XXXX and I am from XXXX, XX.  I have a computer consulting company and I presently have a contract with a company in XXXX.  I will be her for XX to XX months, staying in a hotel.  I am XX years young and have been married for XX years.

I occasionally see local mature providers and I would love to have the opportunity to know you a little better.

My TER handles are XXXX and XXXX.  I was using XXXX for along time, but I really like the name XXXX, given to me by one of the ladies that I see, so I decided to change my handle on TER.  If you need references, you can use any of the ladies I've reviewed.  I enjoyed my time with them and I'm sure any of them would give me a good reference.  If you want to use a local lady, XXXX has offered to give me a reference.

If you would like to talk with me, my cell number is (XXX) XXX-XXXX.

Looking forward to hearing from you,

XXXX

I agree with everyones opinions, as for treating your clients with respect and respond in a timely manner. What I have done in the past when my computer was down is send a quick short note explaining my lack of access and hoping that next time they are in town to please give me a call.

I have had many appts with more than 1 mths notice. I actually had one gentleman start corespondence about 4  mths before his trip. It was great fun building this relastionship before our over nite appt. It made it such fun to feel as if we were old lovers meeting again. Having the noticed really helped me organize everything from childcare etc. to make sure nothing went wrong in our session. I am sure some will feel that corresponding for 4 mths was time consuming and you are correct, however in my case I felt that it was worth it.

my 2 centavos......
kisses & licks.....
mara of san diego

this is one of my *biggest* pet peeves in life, especially when it comes to WOMEN -- cuz they seem to live on a different planet when it comes to common social etiquettes like returning a friggin' phone call (no man-friend/bussines-associate i know would do that unless he owed you money) ... now providers are a different story -- one shouldn't ever expect them to call, even if they profess to be "friends"

incidentally, i'm seeking venture capital for a startup to market my patented "Tele-Bitch-Slapper"(TM)  with which instead of simply leaving a message on her machine you can deliver the cellphone equivalent of a good hearty (well-deserved) bitchslap!

"Yo ... BITCH! ... I'm CALLING you!"

--

NOTE: No bitches were harmed in beta-testing the "Tele-Bitch-Slapper"(TM)

When I posted on the LA board a few weeks back, I mentioned that the ladies who gave ABSOLUTELY no response were highly regarded in the TER community.  I would have thought that the stellar reps would indicate more professional conduct.

I'd say the bar for truly reputable providers is fairly high; a reputation is earned, not given.  The high regard ladies like Dana, Ali, or Sedona (three of the best I've seen) have in this community is enviable and deserved.

I've never had a bad experience once I found TER (thanks Staff!) and I attribute that to the amount of research I do when choosing a provider.  It's unfortunate when that research doesn't pan out and you find that the one (or several) you chose out of the hundreds of listings is a flake after all.


-- Modified on 4/24/2004 2:07:51 PM

the provider's response to my second message (in which I said I was sorry this hadn't worked out) was to ask what had gone wrong.  Had she not seen my initial message, I'd have expected her to question what I was talking about instead.

So you see, I'm not tweeked because I received no response; I allow for an erroneous deletion or being away from e-mail access for one reason or another.  My problem is she clearly DID see my first message, and simply didn't respond until I pulled the plug.

The conversation thread was good, thank you all.  But some of you missed a very important detail.  Please read the text of my response to Sexxygirrl:

You make some good points -- in general, but...

the provider's response to my second message (in which I said I was sorry this hadn't worked out) was to ask what had gone wrong.  Had she not seen my initial message, I'd have expected her to question what I was talking about instead.

So you see, I'm not tweeked because I received no response; I allow for an erroneous deletion or being away from e-mail access for one reason or another.  My problem is she clearly DID see my first message, and simply didn't respond until I pulled the plug.

I'm very early in my hobbying career, but for stress, it has moved to the top of the list.  I've never had the troubles with email that I've had with hobbying.  Already because women wouldn't answer, or because key messages got lost, I have changed email services and changed handling programs a few times.  

I've gotten to hate it.  Now I have two email accounts.  On first contacts, I will send her two redundant messages through two different services, both with a return receipts.  It clogs up the mail system, but it gets the job done.  

Some of this was because of my own newby errors, but the message that never arrives puts a pit in my stomach.    

/Zin

I had one flaky provider...the first one I called.  After that, I have had nothing but good experiences and professional conduct.  If I didn't get a satisfactory response from my initial call or e-mail, then she gets deleted from my favorites list.  End of story.  Thankfully, though, it has never happened since the first time.  

2-4-6-8, who do we appreciate?  TER, TER...yaaay!

I think sedona makes a good point in her post and hobbyists should apply the same logic in obtaining an appointment.  If it takes to many emails and contacts to set up an appointment just contact the next lady on your list.  Don't waste your time with an angry email about her never getting back to you.  Although the lady may be on vacation, email down, etc the odds are that she is just not good about handling that end of her business.  Since there are plenty of fish in the sea just find another one.  In general I have found that email has a much better delivery rate than regular mail.  If the message does not make it to that address I seem to always get an undeliverable message back.

Not to insult anyone in particular, but some people truly don't understand the nature of email as a common communication platform.  Sounds like she read it, and in her head thought, "GREAT - I'll see you then!" ... but then forgot to connect her thoughts to the keyboard, or got side tracked by a ball of yarn.  Was she blonde?

In March, I did have a provider whom I sent an introductory email to, and she didn't answer.  A few weeks later, I sent her another email, she answered that one, claiming not to have received the first.  So, I answered that one, and she didn't answer me that time, nor did she answer any subsequent ones!  I'm thinking, being new, there was something that made her skittish about the first (I got grandeloquent, mind you, but said nothing explicit.  Probably just raised her stress levels) and she answered the second because she didn't remember my first, and then proceded to ignore the rest after being reminded.  But I'll probably never know.  

I've also had a key email get lost in the ether, a technical problem, after introduction, when agreeing on the time and place.  

/Zin

I know instances when a lady doesn't even bother to call back one of her regulars and then gets upset when he doesn't see her for a week or two.

when I first got my start as a provider, I gave clients the opportunity to schedule appointments weeks in advance; I keep a calendar and am extremely organized.  I don't do it anymore, not because I'm a flake, but just because most of the guys I'd schedule time for would break the appointment, usually without calling me.  ~Now~ if you wanted to see me, I might see you within a week, if I've spoken with you or know of you by way of one of my provider friends.  Otherwise, you'd have to call me the day before or the same day for me to take you seriously.

Of course, this was all before I joined TER... mostly...

Sydney
=^.^=

I've seen a lot of mention about providers being busy, unorganized, not having a good grasp of email, unpaid for email accounts etc, etc...for me, what it comes down to is there are flaky disorganized people and there are reliable responsible professionals. This distinction bleeds across ALL socio-economic groups, all retail fields, all customer service fields...there isn't one group that doesn't fall into one or the other of these categories, this INCLUDES hobbyists.
I personally always return my email within 24 hours unless the potential client is explicit or inappropriate in his first contact with me. Other than that, the only time I've had an issue is when my email host "hiccups" as posted previously, and I don't receive the email. I recently had a situation when I received an email a whole week after it was sent to me originally. If anyone knows where an email goes when it gets lost in cyberspace, I'd love that info.
I think common courtesy and respect for individuals is just harder to find these days than ever. There are plenty of people (women AND men) who don't return phone calls, don't call when they are running late, make appointments and then don't show without calling, and are generally inconsiderate and selfish. It is a really annoying quality that many folks have and to me gives the impression that their time is somehow more valuable than anyone elses. There is no excuse.
My suggestion is when you send an email that doesn't get a response, wait a reasonable time period (whatever you feel is reasonable), and then either send the mail again (in case they didn't get it) or follow up with a phone call. You may also want to evaluate the tone and language of your email to determine whether you said something that would offend the provider. If again you get no response, cross that person off of your list and move on. Give the business to someone who will appreciate you and shows an interest in meeting you...as is very obvious, there are plenty of providers to choose from. Hope that you had a great time with the provider that you saw instead! xxx Octavia.

you gave her a chance-your assumptions are correct.  Asking for a reply is not much.

Sometimes emails get opened and forgotten, I may have sent a follow up email a week later to her instead and checked her response time.

But you did what was best, hope you had fun with someone deserving.

This IS the definition of......."Flakey"

Blond and a ball of yarn, thats funny!