Okay not the kind that first comes to mind but more a problem with terminology(sp) What is all this BS about Civilians? This is not a paramilitary hobby. We are not LE. Why would any of us want to use their terms. Please refer to nonhobby dating as Outside the hobby and dont use the eleitest term civilian.We are not Elietests , at least I hope we dont think of ourselves like that. As hobbiest I belive for the most part that we are guys (not allways)(bifemale92) that are past our prime but still kicking on our way out.I acknowledge that at 54 I'm twice as old as I was at My prime and despite my aquired experience and improved technique I now am no longer getting Hit on by 20 something hotties So I end up reaching into my pocket to fufill my personal fantisies.I am far from my warrior years so what is all this BS about civillians.I hope I still have some respect from the ladies that I have met for my abilities but I surely dont expect them to address me as Comander or even Sargent. Let's find some other way to refer to dating outside the hobby, Please. Didn't mean to get off on a rant here, Just my $.02

Civilian, what does that mean? It is everybody in the hobby, just like the majority of the country. The only people who deserve to call people civilians are our brave people of the Military. They sacrifice for us so we can enjoy to choose the hobby as we please and as they please. They work hard for the shitty wages and time abroad, they are the tough ones, not the clients or providers.

Woody,

I don't particularly associate the word "civilian" with any elitism on anyone's part.  In fact, I enjoy the use of the word with respect to the sex industry (or "hobby" as it is often referred to) because of the irony implied.  While there are many military and LE participants, the spirit of the "hobby" is about as counter-military/counter-law-enforcement as it gets.  

English is a subtle language, and a skilled speaker or writer can convey many layers of nuance with the way he or she uses (or misuses) words.  For example, listen carefully to the ladies walking down the red carpet at the Kodak Theatre tomorrow afternoon...they'll all call themselves "actors," yet not one of them will complain when they're called up to the stage to accept the Oscar for "Best Actress."  

While we're on the subject, perhaps the ladies should object to the term "hobby" when we write and speak of their profession.  "Hobby" implies a certain casual attitude that just doesn't mesh well in my mind with some of what these ladies do to get themselves ready for an evening at work.  (Enemas come to mind...sorry, if it involves an enema, it doesn't seem like a hobby to me.)  The word "hobby" brings to mind the old adage about the difference between men and boys, which used to hang on the wall at the Train Exchange in my home town.  Does your use of the word "hobby" mean to imply that the ladies who choose this profession deserve the same respect as a toy train?  I doubt that's what's intended...again, the first person to adopt the word as a way of describing what goes on among some of the members of this forum probably did so with a wink.

It's a great language...let's enjoy it!

Yoda

I've tried getting people to change the name Hobby and even had a thread on suggestions, anyone?
I liked calling it the Game, and the guys are Players (like baseball, not like Play-uhz), and the girls still Providers.
There were a lot of fun correlations between baseball terms and 'our' terms, and besides what REALLY is America's favorite pasttime??

As for 'civvies', well we used to say 'normal' or 'regular' for a long time but that wasn't accurate either.
Mainstream..NP's (non-Providers)..

I dunno..

Couldn't we be pitchers and y'all be catchers?

as many professional providers as you can.
But on the other hand, I wouldn't call my favorite providers pro-fessionals, either. Professionals are doctors, dentists, or
g-ddamned lawyers, whose behavior is supposed to avoid personal involvement with their clients.
Any of my favorite providers are, at the very least, damned good at feigning personal involvement. They are master artists to me.

that somebody somewhere doesn't find fault with or by which they are offended?  Talk about making a mountain out of a purely flat surface for god sake!  Get a grip man.

Didn't a poet once say someyhing like " A ****y by any other name would tatse as sweet" or something like that? I enjoy your posts Woody.

Let's change to football terms, tightend and wide receiver cum to mind for providers.

A few weeks ago there was a thread about men and dating, and one man in particular made some comparisons to civilian women. He mentioned that "civilians" were losers, because they wouldn't date an overweight guy. Before the poster explained to me what he meant, I emailed my mom all pissed off about he double standards in our society. I copied and pasted the man's very long post in an email to my mom (who does not know about this part of my life). She responded with, "-M, I read your email. That's so typical of men these days. What in the hell did he mean by civilian women?" I said that the poster must have been in the military or something, and that I really didn't know. Whoops!

Good to know that some of these posts make people think. Think enough, sometimes, to make them angry or giddy. I'm humbled.

Well you know the military call LE Civilians.

Gee'z! At least "Civilian" covers both sexes. otherwise we are left with:
Mercenary(woman)
 &  
Sucker(man)

Back in the 80's, this is the term that the girls on
the west side used to refer to non prostitute/client
relationships. For example, a boyfriend and girlfriend
out together would be called a "square date", or a
"couple of squares".

"Civilian" sounds silly to me too, although I have used it
once or twice posting messages here only because it is the
most common term used on this board.

And there's another case of a word being accepted by its limited definition.

According to dictionary.com, your definition of "prefessional" is correct, as are these:

2. Engaging in a given activity as a source of livelihood or as a career.
3. Performed by persons receiving pay
4. Having or showing great skill.

There are a number of ladies here who meet all three of those criteria.  Master artists they may be, but they are no less professional!

But hey, that's just me.  

I have no such objections to using the word "civilian," as its very misuuse in this application implies a rather tongue-in-cheek attitude- just the opposite of elitist.  

What's the harm since it's being applied to a group NOT represented on this board?