The idea that politics is "a man's domain" is something I just don't buy.  The modern version of this crock is that women are only interested in "womens' issues" or more generally "people issues" like social policy and health care.  Just puts women in a box.  Yet the women on this board for the most part seem to valididate this stereotype.

I can see how a lady airing her political views could attract or repel certain clientele with similar or differing views.

Discussions that I have had with the ladies has overwhelmingly shown that they have liberal beleifs.  On the other hand it is my guess that most hobbiest are conservative.  For the ladies to post their views might jepordize business.  Am I wrong?

I've been a redhead fanatic all my life, so a good rip-snortin debate just gets me going, and makes the eventual post-debate "discussion" that much more . . . intense!

HPG

I guess it depends on the range of Providers you see.  Maybe you're right about the home-grown girls, but most of the foreign-born (Asian or Latina) girls I've gotten to know seem to lean to the right.

As for hobbyists, I can't say.  I can only speak for myself.  I'm probably best described as a disillusioned conservative.  I think liberals and conservatives are both full of crap.  As soon as I can drag my ass to the post office, I'm going to change my political party from Republican to none-of-the-above.  Of course, it will still be the same sorry bunch of candidates at election time.

My father held fast to: "I may not agree with what you say or believe, but I will defend your right to say it."
I learned from his example.
America is not about being politically correct with a left or a right bend of direction. The freedoms we are granted under the BIll of Rights are more than words on a document. They have to be lived and excersized coninuously to be strong things. Tyranny of the majority can stifle that type of expression. Particularly now, when emotions run high and to disagree is not even tolerated. Kris Kristoffersen wrote "freedom's just another word when there's nothing left to lose..." Say it ain't so, ok?
Fly

Ah, What a brave soul you must be and a true Glutton For Punishment. Yes, we Redheads are a separate "Breed of Fish" aren't we..??? Nice to see another man that's not intimidated by a strong woman with an opinion...Good for you Big Guy...Licks, Robyn

There may be a lot of general liberal beliefs among the ladys Holedriller, but fiscal political views are usually VERY conservative. At least according to my unauthorized, undocumented study. Any way; My mind tends to wander from politics when in the company of a beautiful lady.

With all due respect, this is as American as it gets.  One group speaks out and another group rebuts, exercising it's freedom of expression, association, etc.  


Regards,


Talisman the Dictator

Our second Amendment is all but gone here in Ca. The Feds squashed Medical Marijuana thus steamrollering over the 10th Amendment. Asset forfeture law has gone from being used to go after drug kingpins to impounding the car of a guy looking for a cheap date, That takes care of the Fourth Amendment, Anon anon anon.
 If the masses would stop worrying about Michael Jacksons friggen' nose and concern themselves with the Constitution and OUR Bill of Rights maybe we could enjoy the freedoms enjoyed less than a century ago. Prior to 1913 there was no Income Tax. Find a good dictionary and read the Constitution before you send in your return this year. The same forces that have manipulated other & past gov'ts have been nibbling away at ours for years. Sadly we as a whole have let them.

just use an alias?  I personally would have no problem with that.  I want to hear your opinions, ladies!

that while we have a guaranteed right to express ourselves under the first amendment, we also have to be prepared to deal with the backlash for what we say. Expressing yourself is what this country is all about, and when one does so, they must be prepared to deal with the ensuing criticism or commendations.

Earlier in this discussion thread the point was made that providers run the risk of hacking-off hobbyists by expressing opinions. The same is true for artists in the public eye, vis-à-vis the Dixie Chicks, and their comments in the UK. If they alienate a large number of their target demographic they are in the same boat as providers who express politically unpopular, or controversial opinions.

I fully support their (the Dixie Chicks) right to express themselves under the first amendment. I also support the right of others who have differing points of view to express their opinions as well. I also support the rights of the people who disagree to exert political and economic pressure in order to make a point. It has to work both ways, or it cannot work at all.

In the case of the Dixie Chicks, listeners to the country rock/country western stations barraged them with calls, letters, and emails telling the stations know in no uncertain terms that they disapproved.

That's how things work in the forum of public opinion. In this case, the Dixie Chicks music got pulled from stations because a very large number of listeners let the stations know that they didn't approve of what they said, and didn't want to hear their music.

That's how the American public affects change, it's part of our political process, and how we let the people in the public eye know we approve or don't approve of their actions or words.


HPG




-- Modified on 3/15/2003 10:11:24 PM

of this site, as we men should do more often. There are hundreds, if not thousands of chat rooms and discussion boards where we can discuss many subjects, including politics, sports, entertainment, etc.

Why do we men feel the need to discuss matters on these boards which are related tangentially, if at all, to the purpose of TER? Does it enhance our sense of community? Are we trying to get to know our fellow hobbyists better?

Yes, I know, I don't have to read a thread which has nothing to do with the hobby, but it still clutters up the boards.

Most people have opinions on the Oscars, the war in Iraq or the NCAA tournament but these matters are not why we visit TER. Let's limit TER discussion boards to items of interest to horndogs, such as which providers are good at tossing my salad (and that ain't no cooking directions!)

Is this really your intent?

It seems clear that you may very well be capable of exterting the "economic pressure" you speak of to "make the point" that you disaprove of a political stance taken by a provider.

Surely you understand the vulnerable economic position that providers are in.  Do you really want to bully and intimidate them in this way?  

Nicole said that she could have a debate with someone and then put it behind her and kiss and make up, but that she wondered whether some of the clients could do that.  You seem to be the kind of person she was talking about.  

And no, I'm not talking about learning that a provider has different views than yours and then getting off on pounding the hell out of her, as another way of "proving your point".  I'm talking about the ability to have a mutually respectful session with a sexy woman who disagrees with you about politics.

I would like to see the providers on this board feel free to express themselves without a fear of backlash, because I am very interested in hearing what they have to say.

I do believe some topics are gender geared, and Politics perhaps one of those that is slightly.
I won't engage in debates or conversations, if I don't feel well informed enough. The old saying "it is better to be thought a fool, than to open one's mouth and prove it". Politics is just a subject that I don't know enough about to feel strong in my position. It's not that I don't have an interest. It's just that when I'm interested in something, I do the research, and I TRUST my resources. It seems more real, and tangible. Politics are too UNTRUSTWORTHY, the resources shaky, and much is just a matter of opinion..and...politics. I don't feel I can trust anything I read, anything I hear, so how can I base any real opinion when there's so much influence on making people believe what they want you to think. Where's the TRUTH? Over the course of our lives we see just how much has been distorted; how much we've been lied to. Our history books don't paint the real picture of almost anything-the Civil War, slavery, who shot President Kennedy, etc, etc.
I can't even say if I'm a Republican or a Democrat, because even the name is subject to interpretation. I'm very business minded, have some black and white opinions on Law/s and have some very 'Republican' viewpoints. But, in my life, I rarely want to do something that only benefits me. It MUST benefit other people also, even in the simplest things, like ordering checks that support Breast Cancer, buying postage stamps that do the same, waiting to buy my wrapping paper from the local kids schools, etc, etc. I have a very Democratic heart - I want to benefit PEOPLE. (Healthcare is a big topic and sore subject for me that I can climb up on the soapbox about!)
I don't know how I feel about going to war. Those that oppose it, what's your idea for an alternative? Tell them to behave? Seriously, I haven't heard any good alternatives..I think we're almost forced to in order for them to take us serious, but I don't think that it will accomplish much. We're in a rock and a hard place, but if we don't go to war, we'll also look like a bunch of pussies, and people will just keep pushing our buttons because they know they can. What I fantasize about are some top secret super American Ninja types finding both Sadam H. and Osama and slitting their throats in their sleep. That would be wonderful. Get the two that matter and leave innocent people alone, all the while having an intimidating presence.
When I was in High School, I was a Student Ambassador to Europe, and went to 10 countries, for an entire summer. Holland is very political - in fact one of the most political groups of people you'll ever meet. These teenagers hammered me. I was completely unarmed. I never forgot it. They would speak of a topic (American, of course) and I might say, no, this is what happened (based on TV News) and they would laugh and say, no, that's simply what they TOLD you happened; that's what they want you to BELIEVE, but that's NOT the truth, here's what happened...I will never forget that experience because, even now with the BS from France, etc, I realize that how they see us, and what they are being told is completely different than what we experience here. Therefore, it's no wonder...we're not even on the same page!
As far as why women don't participate in these discussions as much, it could be because it could effect Business. I wouldn't care - yes, HiPro, it's because I'm firey. I'm more of a take it or leave it kind of girl. I'm a selective Provider who knows exactly what I want out of this Provider Business, and I would only want to see men that it wouldn't matter! Does that make sense? If he didn't like my opinion - oh well..
I think, hope the women don't get mad at me for this, but I think women don't have 'time' for nonsense nor bullshit, and tolerate little of either. Politics, as I've said before, is too vague and flakey for us to spin our heads over. Give us concrete and we'll give you our opinions.

Just my thoughts..

Warmest regards,
Sedona

See my post earlier on up the thread. I like a good political discussion, it gets my juices flowing! Silky even responded back that I'm a glutton for punishment! Which may be true, I like to look at it as part of the package one gets when they date a redheaded woman.

Again, that's the beauty of being able to express our opinions freely in this county. My simple point was that one cannot express an opinon without have someone agree, disagree or remain neutral. This is indicated by your response, and the way you colour what I have stated to be an evident attempt to bully the ladies here, or decry their opinions.

Simply put, this is not the case.

Peace out bro!

HPG

On the UK escort review board I frequent I am well known for contributing to political debates and voicing my opinion.  It has brought me flak but on the whole it had brought me more clients who admire the fact I am intelligent, well informed and not afraid to speak my mind.

In fact, just a couple of weeks ago there was an extremely lively and well informed discussion thread on the rights and wrongs, legality or otherwise of the impending war.  A client booked me solely because of seeing me contribute to this thread and liking the way I conducted my argument (OK, maybe not *solely* for that reason but it was the thing that brought me to his attention  This was despite the fact he was in the air force and just about to go to the Gulf and I do not support the war.  We had a fantastic time, one of the most fun appointments I've had.

I find the notion that women are only interested in 'women's issues' offensive.  Frankly, women's magazines and TV programmes bore me to tears!  Give me a good newspaper/news magazine or documentary anytime

You're right on the money.  The court of public opinion works on a majority, rightly or wrongly.  History tends to get written and re-written by people so sometimes it takes a bit of digging to separate the wheat from the chaff as to right or wrong. I'm a digger, can you tell?

You're also right about not bullying you or any other lady here about their political views, opinions, lifestyles, or anything else.  We're all free to live and act as we deign appropriate and safe.

I also believe that when a lady has a differing view or opinion than I have, it adds and extra dimension to her personality that intrigues me, and makes me want to get to know her better. In a relationship, there needs to be balance in all things.  

Views, beliefs and opinions over time can become obsessions or fanatical beliefs when they are unchallenged. Having someone by you who articulates themselves well on their point of view really helps one to keep things in perspective.

Thanks Nicole,

HPG

beliefs, and that goes a long way with me.

"I also support the rights of the people who disagree to exert political and economic pressure in order to make a point".

The "economic pressure" part is what interested me about your post, since the ladies could be subject to this kind of pressure.  But like I said, I'll take at face value the truth of what you said about how you're not that kind of guy.

So let's debate on!  ( I also enjoy debating - gee, do you think maybe people can tell?)

Jack

word that he is not the kind of guy who would penalize a woman for speaking up (see my response to him below), but lord knows there are plenty of other guys who would.

But you know, what Carrie of London said was a very good point.  Speaking up may cost a woman a few clients, but it will also bring her many other new clients, and they might just be more interesting clients anyway!

Here's to women who speak up!

P.S. Gotta be gone for most of the day.  I'll catch up on this thread later.

I think all the Dixie Chicks said was something to effect like "were ashamed to be from same state as Pres. Bush"..Big deal..Unfortunately, it seems now in society it's ok to bash liberal viewpoints all you want, but if you say anything anti-conservative your anti-American, etc...Why the double standard??

Look at all the hate filled rhetoric that comes out of columinst Ann Coulter's mouth, I've never heard any liberal groups engaging in protests outside Fox News, where she appears frequently as a guest on various shows...

For about 3 minutes yesterday, I watched this Michael Savage character on MSNBC...For the first 2 minutes he was rather civil, then BOOM!, bottom fell out...He started blaming liberals (namely the ACLU) for the Elizabeth Smart kidnapping as the two suspects are homeless people...He forgets the fact that these two suspects are religious fanatics, he just went on about liberals=homeless problem=crime, blah, blah...

Look at all the Hollywood stars that are getting hell for expressing their views on Iraq situation....There's too much demonization being done by the right to the left, it's rather sad..

The subject of economic pressure that I did not articulate well enough, upon re-reading my post, was in the case of the Dixie Chicks. The manifestation in that particular case would be a drop in record sales due to boycotts by consumers who disagree with their point of view.

HPG

so it is their interpretation that we get.  

A real joy can be to go to a good college bookstore and get some diverse opinions from their shelves rather than just limiting to B&N, Borders, etc.

Sultan Mahmud is lying in the lap of his jester when he asks him: "What is your relation to cuckolds?"

The jester answers: "I am their pillow."

I'm never afraid to be thought a fool, it only improves the odds that someone will make the mistake of understimating me!

Sedona, I'd recommend looking at several news sources (BBC, VOA, Reuters, UPI, AP, The Washington Post, NY Times, etc.) They're all on line, and the stories are usually very brief and less full of the editorialized crap on the printed page. After you read 4 or 5 articles from differing viewpoints and countries on the same subject, the commonalities kind of jump out at you and help to formulate a pretty good view of what the basic facts are.

Google is an excellent source for getting TONS of different sources on the same subject.

Remember: Cogito ergo spud! (I think therefore I YAM) HAAAAAAAA

Sorry, it's the aspiring to be a fool thing again!

HPG

Nicole raises a very good point regarding
K-FROG's "Blackballing" of the Dixi-Chicks. The same public that K-FROG set out to appease may ultimately strike back at K-FROG for First Amendment issues.
 Public opinion or "Mob rule" can change very quickly. It is for that reason that I am greatfull to our Forefathers for setting up this great Democratic Republic of ours with 3 Heads.
(1)Executive branch
(2)legislative branch
(3)Judicial branch
Although at times it seems that nothing is ever getting done due to the arguments between these three seperate branches the disasterous effects of "KneeJerk" politics, policies and laws are avoided.

Several times I have booked a lady's company initiating from their clever or insightful postings on these boards. Those appointments have also proven to be the most enjoyable and memorable.
 Don't be shy ladys. It really IS a cerebral thing, appreciated and treasured when found.

Yo! BigPapasan.  My father once told me that it's prefferable to have a woman whom you can have a conversation with out of the bedroom as well as in.
 I don't think any of the ladys or gentlemen here have lost sight of the general focus of this forum. What is happening or not happening in our boxers or panties does not take away from the fact that we are all thinking three dimentional people.
 To your comment on this political banter increasing our sense of community my reply is YES. We all might be here to "Toss our salads" but good intellectual conversation before, at, or after dinner only adds to the meal. Those of us who appreciate that are obviously of the community
 For your sake I hope tomorrow there will be a post about insatiable Lesbian Natzi Hookers with toys that you will find more interesting.

Actually, the 'fool' quote was just an example to say I'd rather participate in the conversation if I feel I can strongly contribute.
I don't usually care what people think, and rarely feel foolish.

Thanks for the online tips and resources for better material.

xo
Sedona

I agree with sedonasandiego, This is my personal opinion only of course, and it does not have jack to do with if I am intelligent or well informed and not afraid to speak my mind. Think what ever you like, but I try to keep up with only what applies to what my expectation from this board is for me. I am culturally sensitive, I try to avoid heated political discussions and not get into any extreme discussions about politics on this board. TER do allow discussions of political matters here, I guess solely for the purpose of educating people about the diversity of political opinion. Yes, it do get very hot in here and Yes, I do sometime read some of the views, But it is not my main purpose here.

-- Modified on 3/17/2003 12:18:23 PM

I respectfully disagree with all your points.  

She made a dumb comment and the public is holding her accountable.  The issue is accountability for what you do and say, not free speech.  

As an aside, I don't believe any radio station would be "under contract" to play the music of any specific band; they would lose all credibility as a radio station.

Regards,


Talisman