After perusing nearly all the different city boards here on TER, I am having many big problems with the reasoning of providers on asking for personal/employment info to verify a client.

I have read about 1 woman getting ripped off twice within a week, and if I read her post correctly, she asks new clients for personal info rather than relying on references.

Another post I have read states that the woman even called the place of employment that was given to her to verify the mans identity  and it checked out that the man worked there. When the man arrived she verified his identity by looking at his drivers license.  In this case the woman got busted. Link to post below.

Another post is from someone that states how easy it would be to set up a false business with business cards and an answering service.

I just can’t understand how anyone could possibly think that getting a persons employment info or looking at a drivers license is going to assure them that they are safe. I would think that getting a reference from another well known provider would be a far safer way of doing business.

As a businessman, when looking at new clients, and in determining the creditworthiness of them, I don’t rely on calling their place of employment. I always check the credit references. By doing this I have never had a new client stiff my company.

The only thing about checking out employment is that you can decipher if they are L.E. only.
I don't understand why someone wants to stiff a lady.
Some people are just that way. They must get a life....

Shaye

it's a real simple equation:
1) the company sets a rule
2) the customer follows the rule or doesn't do business.

if the company is losing money and is continually burned by its own rules, well then, they deserve to go out of business.
   - - the fact that you can give an example of a provider who was burned by her rule probably will not change the mind of the many providers who have had success with that rule.

if a customer feels truly uncomfortable following the rule, he should make a compromise offer - for instance, hypothetically speaking, if man does not want to give personal/employment info but has a few stellar references from providers, why not just offer them and see what happens?
 - - any provider who refuses to accept a reasonable compromise doesn't deserve the business in the first place.

i fail to see how credit references relate to my safety/reliability in this venue - and i'm probably paying cash up front for the service. serial killers and police officers may have equally good credit ratings, while a lot of nice normal guys have had trouble with their mastercards.

this is a risky hobby and a risky profession. as a businessman, how do you feel about prospective clients who give you the runaround when you ask for "verification"? if i were a provider, i'd be suspicious of anybody who tried to jerk me around with my verification process. and as a hobbyist, i'd be very suspicious of a provider who would let me bypass the same process.

KIP seems to lecture and blame providers who did employment verification but got busted, because they should have used a reference from another provider instead. (assuming that was available?)  Apparently the main goal is to convince providers to stop checking employment, using this approach.  I would be surprised if it worked.

It seems to me that employment information is just one of several means of screening, which can be useful while not perfect or conclusive.

My sympathy and support is offered to the unfortunate providers who were arrested.

-- Modified on 3/8/2003 10:52:23 PM

Is that there is no sure fire way to verify. If there was, we wouldn't be sitting here discussing it. Even a provider with a stellar track record or a hobbyist with the same can get there ass in a sling and end up doing whatever it takes to get it out. Or at least, loosen it as much as possible. It's never 100% and we all accept that at the onset as one of the hazzards or our beloved hobby. In the end, everyone has to do whatever makes him/her most comfortable, be it verify work place or get references from someone else. If a certain person falls outside your "comfort" level, walk away, there are others that will fit into it.

The bottom if they have to call me at work for verification it is a no go. If they are not willing to accept room service 2000 or another provider reference regardless if it is not local it is a no go. There are plenty of providers out there who have reasonable verification methods. For starters they should use something like room service 2000 or date check.

The problem is that many providers don't go about getting the information from the yellow pages or the internet. They trust that the number the guy gives them is their work number. Yes, anyone can set up a phony answering service but it takes a little more doing to get a yellow page listing etc.
The ladies need to do their homework and realize that they should be looking up the number of said business in order to contact the hobbyist.
Nothing is full proof of course but if you have a persons info the chances are a lot less that there will be funny business. It has worked for me for 3 yrs and no problems yet. I have even worked in areas where LE is very very active.
The scariest part is getting someone who will beat, murder, rape or stalk you. Much more worse than LE in my book.

My post was to stimulate some thought on this process. Not in any way to blame the provider.

My personal opinion is that a reference from a known provider in your local area is the safe bet.Just because somebody works at ABC Inc. doesn't mean they're a gentleman.If a provider doesn't except a reliable reference and wants work verification or excessive personal information I would be a bit skeptical and move on.
One of my favorite gals has a verification process that rivals an FBI background check.I didn't see her for a long time after she went independent so she didn't remember me.I gave her this info because I trusted her.It turned out that she only checked the reference I gave her.The bottom line is if you are forthcoming with a provider I think you will find they are flexible.

This is a worthwhile topic, but also one discussed frequently in the past with some pretty divergent POVs.  While perhaps providing some added insight & food for thought for some, no uniformity of opinion was ever reached..& as with many other things, I don't believe that is ever likely to happen.

And while I may agree that certain things a lady might require are really of no protective value to her, or minimal value at best, & might wonder why she doesn't do something additional or different that I think would be more beneficial...the whole point is that whatever screening methods she chooses to employ, it's her choice & hers alone.  Nothing is 100% foolproof..but she must do whatever she feels makes her most comfortable.  Hobbyists are at a certain degree of risk also, but that pales in comparison to what the gals put on the line with each new client. I will never argue with them by saying that their requests are unreasonable.  

My choice in the matter is only whether or not I'm comfortable with providing the information she asks for..sometimes I haven't been, as in the case of one lady (who by the way got busted) that wanted me to bring a copy of my tax returns.  Some things I will divulge other guys might not, likewise I won't divulge some things that others do.  It's not about being right or wrong, simply about my own reasons.

The bottom line I think is that both we & they need to respect whatever boundries the other has with regards to screening.  If both are comfortable with it, wonderful & eveyone have a great time.  If one or the other isn't comfortable, there's no need for any animosity or ill will..both should simply chalk it up as one of those things & move on.

...interested in verifying your identity or income or both?

to find a way of turning someone elses misfortune around, so that it's all about you. I consider you, always posting under an alias, one of the major problems on this and other boards. You're negative way of viewing almost every topic here, reflects what an truly sad individual you are. How a Provider screens a client has very little to do with assuring she never has some one undesirable, slip through the radar. There are just bad people in this world, that look for every opportunity to harm others...it's just a fact of life. Although, you refered to my two ripp-offs in your post, you failed to take into consideration the fact that those have been the ONLY times in three years that this has happened, pretty good percentages, I would say. So I think my MO has served me well. As for you and the other "Bottom-Feeders" that post here, unfortunatly, you'll continue to find your joy in the pain of others.

I usually check work references in a discreet manner, and require verification from a well known provider/hobbiest.  I think there are girls who have abused this system of checking out information, but most of us girls mean well and are professional in handling this information.  But there are a few guys as well who have abused our trust and unfortunately ruined it for the good guys out there who are legit and mean well towards us ladies.
I think a gentleman who is giving out his information would think twice before ripping her off or abusing her during a session.  For my safety, before going to an appointment, I leave all information with a friend in the event that something horrible has happened to my safety.  After the appointment, all informating is shredded and removed from my database.  I have had gentlemen who were not nice, but I have never used such information against them as a weapon to get my way, as I find that kind of behaviour as unprofessional.
I am in no way saying that this verification process gives me a 100% insurance policy against the creeps or LE, but it does give you some peace of mind and some insurance when going into an unknown situation~

Personal info isn't collected just to avoid LE.  It's other major purpose is to protect the provider from being physically hurt by an evil hobbiest.

If the provider doesn't come back from the appointment, then the personal info can be used to track down her attacker.

Hi there,

I read your post and I am interested in what information you  feel would be more beneficial in the screening process.

If you would like to email me personally please feel free to.  [email protected]

Thank you

WTF are you babbling about? All about me? I am trying to bring up a discussion that may better serve you and all providers in your safety. Actually, I was trying to do something positive for the board and you have turned it into all about YOU.
And once again, your complete disregard for your own safety has shown through your lack of rational thought processes.

And here we go again, with the reasoning that because it doesn't happen all the time it's okay. It isn't okay, you were lucky those scumbags didn't do something worse to you.

I post under an alias so I don't have you in my inbox.

No, I don't find pain in others a pleasant experience at all. I think that is something you'll never understand though.

I do wish you good fortune Robyn, as I hate to see anyone get hurt.

I agree with your simple equation, and that the providers that have had success probably won't change the way they screen.

The credit reference was an example. I wasn't suggesting that providers ask for credit references. I was stating that I didn't call the company to verify their own worthiness, I contact an outside source that has dealt with said customer previously.

I am fairly flexible with new customers. Taking into consideration the length of time in business, size of company, what their major purpose for service is. I am also leary of anyone that isn't forthcoming.

I'll be damned if I can answer that question!  Obviously, I think it was a bit more thorough on her part that a business card, driver's license, phone call to verfy employment, etc...all of which can be easily faked in the vast majority of cases--particularly by LE if they happen to be that interested in making a bust of that gal.  I'd never heard of anyone asking that before or since..simply mentioned it as what I considered an extreme example showing that nothing is an iron-clad guarantee.  Naturally I declined to provide that info then, as I certainly would now.  I don't even have any details relating to how she was busted..only recall that she was operating out of Newport Beach, CA--in the Orange County which is infamous locally for cracking down on such serious crime!

My company isn't listed in the yellow pages. It was at one time but due to the overwhelming amount of sales calls keeping personnel occupied we discontinued the ads.

Well as I said before, I have had guys who shorted me $50 or so, but I never used the information against them to try and get what I wanted.  I feel that is abusing the trust and two wrongs don't make it right.

As for informing my friend of my whereabouts and what time I should be back in...If I get killed by some guy during my sessions and he passed my other verification process..I damn well want to make sure he is caught so he can't kill or harm anyone else.  I think that scares the crap out of me, more so than LE with their corrupt ways.

Hi Daisey,

While I appreciate your invitation to email you personally, I hope you won't be put off in any way by me responding publically.  If there's any benefit to be gained by anyone from my reply it might be best for others to read it also.

My own circumstances dictate what I am comfortable with, not that anyone else's situation is the same...probaly it might not be. To begin with, I'm single & don't have the wife/SO concerns that others might.  Therefore I don't have those problems once a comfort level has been achieved with revealing either my phone number or personal email.  

The fact that I retired very early from corporate America also allivates my concerns in that area, but at the same time might create a problem in the minds of some gals because of an inability to verify an employment.  Not much I can do about that if it's the case, but I'm certainly not about to provide tax returns (ridiculous IMO) or my social secuity # etc..not even my driver's license in advance, although a quick peek upon meeting is acceptable.

Screening has become much more of an issue, rightfully so, than it was when I first entered this hobby & became a member of TER..about 3yrs ago.  I almost never see a gal who I have not seen on TER, most have been previously reviewed but not always.  At least that gives me the knowledge that she's familiar with this site & makes things much easier, particlarly if she's a VIP member.  What I will always offer in such a case is is to give a provider refererence (with the caveat that I contact the gal in advance) plus my TER name as I make all my posts/reviews under only the "greywolf" alias.  That way she's welcome to check my reviews to determine if she feels she might be what I'm looking for, & to check my posts to determine as best she can if my views/personality are such that she'd feel comfortable with me.  It IS a two-way street.  Frankly I go through much the same process if possible before ever making contact with a gal.  

All I can say is that this has never failed to work for me.  Of course if I have an advance indicattion that it wouldn't, I simply pass & move on.    

   



-- Modified on 3/10/2003 10:21:09 AM

I don't think anyone argues that provider references especially local provider references where I may actually know the girl,  are the best but unfortunately that is not always available.  Most of my clients are new and I am their first provider, therefore, they are usually not aware of TER or similar such resources.


What struck me about your post was that you said "wonder why she doesn't do something additional or different that I think would be more beneficial."   I guess my question would be when dealing with a new client what other information than the usual tools used to screen new clients would be more beneficial?

Any violent crime against a Provider should be treated as a "Hate Crime" I know the authorities won't EVER adopt that policy. It's just my humble opinion.
 lady(s); Screen away

If they are LE, they will check out like smooth butter.  Best choice is provider references.  Not always a sure thing but I am more comfortable with them. With provider reference you do not need to give a whole lot of personal info.

I tend to be a little nervous when a friend calls and I ask for the reference, and they say "I have never seen anybody before".  That is when I tell them to go see someone else and call me after.

Answers to your questions:
1. Yes
2. Yes
3. Occasionally LOL, if you can understand my writing you may be able to understand my verbal communication.
4. Yes
5. For you, possibly, you seem to be intelligent, articulate, and discreet.

********************************************************************
1. do you have an official website for the company?
2. Is there mention of the company on the internet?
3. Can you talk intelligently about your job?
4. Do you have a work address?
5. Do you have an indirect line and a cover story I could use when calling so as to allay any suspiciouns should I call your work and ask for you at work (eg. "This is Nicole from such and such realty, or Nicole checking on conference arrangements for next week, etc.etc")

I wish I could better answer your question, but I can't...perhaps another provider might be better able to do so.

My statement about something additional & more beneficial was mainly refering to those gals who don't feel comfortable with provider references & prefer to rely on the employment verification avenue instead.  

I believe most people are basically honest, but it's the minority that aren't who are cause for concern.  If it's LE or some slime-ball who knows a little about what he's doing, most employments can be easily faked...& phony driver's licenses can be obtained on the street, along with phony credit cards assuming one wants to go to that trouble.  And having phony business cards printed is the easiest of all, a snap..easy, quick, inexpensive..& really prove absolutely nothing.  You might as well rely on a guy's word as to rely on a business card.  

I personally feel the most reliable avenue is that which I suggested previously...references from another provider and/or possibly in conjunction with whatever other background info that might be available on TER or a similar site.  I know of a few gals who almost never see someone that they can't check out in this way.  

Obviously in seeing first-time-ever clients none of the above is possible.  However, it definitely increase the risk factor greatly...the easiest thing in the world for someone with bad intentions to do is to claim it's their first time.      

I hope some gals can give you worthwhile suggestions..I know all I've done is point out a potential pitfall.