Recent review has a provider receiving a rating of Average for performance. She was a little late, while giving bj changed price for fs. Performed brief fs and was gone like the wind.

I can't decide who I am more disappointed with, provider or client. She gave what in my opinion was minimal service, for a higher than average price. He thought that this was average level of service. I know that YMMV but I feel this is just sad.

We all talk about wht constitutes a GFE or a PSE. Maybe we should discuss the more basics, what is a decent level of service. Of course if you don't ask for it and don't get it then that is your fault.

So, how about some open discussion about what you expect for different levels of service?

A couple of quick personal opinions. MPs (never tried it) seem to be more of the quick massage and then some other services, usually at least a hand release. FBSM (not MP) should be more personal, some chit chat, more relaxed atmosphere, more mutual touching and maybe more services offerred. Escorts should be at least be bj and fs, with more services likely offerred. GFE is an escort session that leaves ALL of your wants satisfied (tough order). PSE is even tougher in that it should be a GFE experience that is just a little dirtier/nastier than you have ever allowed yourself to be.

Okay lets hear other opinions!

Reisappointed

Fact of the matter is, not many women think:"Oh I want to be a sex provider when I grow up". So vast majority of so-called providers out there suck big time, because, and there is no better way of saying this, they hate what they do.

Women closely associate sex with emotional love. That makes it real difficult for them to get into a sex act with a man without having some sort of feeling about him.

Now here is something to pay close attention to. The best providers do not associate sex and love. They keep the deep emotions out of the sex act and they can do so because, and here is the rub, they have a full and satisfying life in addition to what they do for a living. If she is doing this to pay the bills and just to get by, chances are you have one unhappy provider on your hands. She would be what I call a "bolter" - wants you in and out as fast as possible because while in the act she is disgusted with herself for doing this work.

In order to maintain the full and satisfying life I mentioned before, these providers understand that they need a steady stream of preferably regular clients. (who wants to deal with strangers all the time?). They give clients what they want to keep them coming back. It is simple but yet very difficult to do because the emotions can get in there from time to time.

So here are some guidelines to remember when shopping for providers:

1. The experienced providers are friendly and personable, like salespeople. You should be able to decipher this on the phone.

2. They seem to know what you want. Experience. You feel at ease with them.

3. Unfortunately, they are more expensive than your average import, MP's or newbees. But better to see one good one rather than a couple of unsatisfactory ones.

4. They have tons of reviews, mostly positive, posted here.

5. They aren't the most youthful girls out there but they take care of themselves very well. (again experience comes with time and there are no training schools for this type work).

6. Good providers furnish excellent ambiance for their clients where the service is provided.

Here is what you can do:

1. Don't fall in love with providers. Easier said than done but you can mess up a good working relationship pretty fast by confusing this service with romantic love.

2. See as many providers as often as you like. However, keep in mind that this is no substitute for a real relationship just a stop gap. Spend some of the money on therapy.

3. Be kind to providers, they have a very tough job. Legal hassles, funky clients, you name it. They too, can have bad days.

4. Just like any kind of working relationship, it takes time to develop rapport with a provider to the point that things are flowing smoothly between the two of you.

5. Don't be so hung up on looks and age. If you insist, know that you may set yourself up for some unsatisfactory experiences.

The way I measure a satisfactory experience with a provider is the length of time the experience quenches my thirst. If I am lustfully checking out a woman's back side in the elevator after having just recently been with a provider, I know the service didn't do the job. I find that a good experience with a provider can satisfy my urges for an extended period of time. The duration, I believe, varies from individual to individual but you WILL know if the provider is helping you cope with fluctuations in your libido.

That's all.

I think some hobbyists, no matter who they see, are destined for good or bad sessions.  I have had mostly MP experiences after beginning with some well known and well reviewed incall girls.  No matter who I have seen, incall, MP, HC, TJ, Europe, Asia, etc., I have never had a bad session.  It is still the hobbyists job to make the provider feel at ease at the beginning of a session if he is to expect a positive experience.
If the provider is freaked out or is treated poorly at the beginning, then how could she really provide a quality experience???  I am not some social butterfly and not necessarily Mr. Personality, but all it takes are some basic social skills and a good attitude (and don't forget to pepper the girls with compliments) to ensure a positive session.   Of course, this has only been my experience, but it seems to work for me.  Just some suggestions.

Although I enjoyed being amused by your `expert guide to providers and the hobby,’ including a cute one-dimensional outline of the underlying psychological  `truths’ that can be used to both understand the mindset of--as well as predict the service-quality of--any given provider...I do so hope your post was a product of your sense of humor.
After all, wouldn’t it be obvious that providers are far too diverse of a group (in terms of their socio-economic beginnings, cultural backgrounds, personal stories, primary motivating factors, and a wide array of other variables) to whom such absolute `facts’ based on broad generalizations, could ever be accurately applied.

Just in case you’re not joking, though:
By centering one’s analysis around alleged evidence based only the use of overly-simplified deductive logic--you must realize that your `expert advice’ relies on the truth of a classic logical fallicy. (Remember the ole’:  All men are human being; All women are human beings; Therefore all women are men?) Similarly,  your whole outlook appears basically supported by: No woman plans to be a provider; women hate that which does not match was previously planned; therefore all women hate being providers. You then use this fallaciously-proven `fact ‘to support the ensuing conclusion, "So vast
 majority of so-called providers out there suck big time."  Hmmmm. Well, as someone actually in the situation--I can attest to the fact that I never planned to be a provider...yet I am ruled by no such all-pervasive hatefulness...in fact quite the opposite. There is much enjoyment to be found in the experiences, freedoms, and inherent pleasures of this unplanned lifestyle for which your `fact of the matter’ declaration fails to account (or even consider.) I wonder if that means I still "suck big time," by your standards.

Further out-dated, over-simplified, tunnel-vision treats include: your`fact’ that all full-time providers are unhappy people who feel perpetually disgusted with our sordid choice of lifestyle; your  `fact’ that, based on a trite concept of  `how all women think,’ all good providers must completely disassociate their emotionality from all encounters. (All amusingly enhanced by commanding introductions such as, "Now here is something to pay close attention to.")

I must say tell you, though: my favorite part of your self-made client guide, "Here is what you can do," is when you assert the importance of allocating part of one’s hobbying budget for `therapy.’ Therapy for what condition????

According to your expert information--I can’t be a good provider unless I’m completely detached from my clients, have `tons’ of reviews, and have reached a certain magic age, and have the demeanor of a salesperson? That’s depressing...

But then again, I also believe that physical passion is enhanced by a concurrent interpersonal `connection’ that has nothing to do with "emotional love," but rather a mutual desire to fully enjoy the intensity of an experience. How does that belief fit within your guidelines?

You have every right to your opinions. But, it’s just plain silly to make such simplistic blanket statements--and give such authoritative advice--based on misconceptions that should be easily recognized with even a pre-Psychology 101 understanding of the basic reality that each of us is an individual--which makes us far too complex to be assessed by the broad generalizations , faulty logic, and  tunnel-vision pseudo-psychology.

I know I have - and my nice pleasant wonderful demeanor goes away and I turn into an Evil SOB.

This is not ANY DIFFERENT from any other job when you really get down to it.  ...Get up Get Ready and proceed to trade time and skills for dollars and cents.  Sometimes you are into it, and sometimes you are simply NOT.

YMMV is not just a term to indicate a difference in taste.  It is also there because nobody is a machine...all people experience highs and lows continually throughout their lives.

Honestly, Michael, if your employers, employees, associates, customers, clients or whatever had the same unforgiving attitude you seem to, it is doubtful that you (or any of us) would have the means to even participate in this hobby.  Why would you expect this industry to be filled with anything but people...like any other.  The lack of legitimacy does not preclude real life.

To forgive is Divine.

All the Best

LookyLooky

Not talking about attitude here, but job performance. In the example I gave, the providers attitude was not mentioned although it can be implied by her performance. By the way it was not my review. You are right, people are people and we all have bad days and sometimes bad chemistry. This however is not an excuse for doing bad business.

As you pointed out, our hobby is a business, an entertainment business in fact. I do not go to a concert and expect to have the band stop half way through a set and ask for more money for the seats before finishing the show. Nor do i expect them to come out perform three songs and leave the stage for the night. This however seems to be what some expect in our hobby and are taking poor service as the norm. If we as customers don't set the standards we expect than who will?

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume your post was well-intentioned, BUT, the benefit of this board is that you can get other people's input based on experiences which may differ from your own.  And there is a saying in my line of work that "only a fool extrapolates personal experience to make assumptions about the broader population."

The subtext running through your post seems to reflect a very old school attitude regarding sex, women and the sex business.  One characterized by the self-loathing fallen woman, based on the assumption that nobody would do this if they had a choice, sex is exploitive etc.  This attitude seems to imply that these women need to be saved from this fate worse than death, and until they are,they're mad at the world.  (I'm paraphrasing and giving my impressions based on your comments).  

While some aspects of the sex business may support your premise (street walkers addicted to crack for example), there are many levels to this activity and we should be careful not to lump everyone together and make generalizations that don't apply.  Especially since for every generalization you've listed, I've had expereinces that contradict them.  Afterall, both Steven Spielberg and Vivid Video are in the same business, but there's a pretty huge difference.

Perspicacity covered it pretty thoroughly, I'll just add that while I agree most "providers" didn't plan on getting into the sex business, there are a wide range of motivations based on the women I've known.  Sure, there are some that just got in a financial pinch and worked for a year or two until things settled down.  But there are many who love sex and peole and were thrilled to realize they could get paid for what they loved doing.  I've known some women with graduate degrees that could have worked in a variety of fields, but just chose to pursue sex a vocation.  In two cases I know personally, the women loved sex so much that it was dominating their lives anyway, so they just decided to get a little more organized and make their passion a business.  The point is, these women's own attitude about sex, their motivation and their lives isn't what it may appear to you from your reference frame as a client.

Yes, the majority of providers do have the ability to compartmentalize their emotional response during a provider session.  But is this any different than what you do when you have sex with an escort?  You don't fall in love with them just because you are having sex, and either do they.  It doesn't make them pissed-off and surly.  It's possible for either a woman or a man to enjoy sex for sex's sake, and not force it to mean more than that.  Men have been doing it forever, why is this concept so hard to believe when applied to women?  

It's no longer 1890.  The aculturalization of women doesn't require them to fall in love and marry in order for them to have sex.  Nor do they have to worship their husband and make a baby in order to be fulfilled.  Some women just love to have sex and freely chose to do so.  Far from enslaving them, many find it incredibly liberating- that is until they run into clients trying to save them from themselves.

-- Modified on 7/16/2001 1:15:20 PM

...is probably what we should call this job from the ladies perspective.  If they are not into it, and are not excellent at faking it, we all pick up on it rather quickly.  Thus, when someone working that kind of job has a bad day, the consequences are more severe and immmediately noticable by the client - on a physical level.... For example - Vaginal Secretions are a LOT harder to control than say...a smile, or a giggle.

If you saw someone who was reviewed as average or marginally above average, then perhaps she was with that person on a "good" day.  Perhaps she liked him.  Point is that some variation on the 1-10 scale we use is to be expected.  From a 6 to a 4 is not unreasonable mathematically in the course of normal business.  As I previously said - my range is more than that in my life (hopefully nobody is running around behind me grading it..lol)

I expect high standards...but I have seen some of the highest reviwed providers and been completely put-off by them.  My reaction was not one of extreme angst, but rather..."Win some, lose some"  There are no guarantees after all.

I believe the best we can do here is to narrow down our choices to a "high potential" group suited to our particular tastes...which vary as widely as people do.  This is a damn sight better than the dating scene, and light years beyond just walking into a Village Voice Ad without a fellow hobbyists personal take.

If we were all stomping around in the light of day instead of anonymously posting our concerns on the internet, I think we could increase our chances more...but not that much.  With something as pervasive, individual, and psychologically intense as sex tends to be in our Puritanical-based society....we should be happy we have it as good as we do.

A Last note - I am not defending poor service.  I am calling your attention to the fact that the experience you had compared to the review you read was NOT out of proportion with what one may expect out there.

As Always.  IMHO.  YMMV.  Couldn't have it any other way.

All the Best

LookyLooky

It OK to give advice and to make simplistic statements. It is thought-provoking and enables individuals form their own version of what works for them, perhaps as a varaiation of what I presented.

To answer your question: "But then again, I also believe that physical passion is enhanced by a concurrent interpersonal `connection’ that has nothing to do with "emotional love," but rather a mutual desire to fully enjoy the intensity of an experience. How does that belief fit within your guidelines?"

It doesn't. You win. If you truly can do that without an iota of personal attachment, I applaud you.

And since I am on advice giving: You have a problem with people expressing themselves. You like to put people down and label their opinions. Rather than presenting a coherent view of your own, you resorted to venting your frustration by misrepresenting what I wrote in your response.

If you like to have an intelligent discussion that can help all involved, then I suggest you refrain from that demeanor. I will not engage you again otherwise.

Please--if I misrepresented you...I'd like to know in what way I did so. Please clarify--feel free to correct me. But, your position did seem very clear, to me. And I'd also like to know which portions of my assertions are, in your opinion, incoherent--as that is not something of which I am usually accused of being. (I am a bit baffled, though: How would you be able to assert that I misrepresented your views if my response was so incoherent?)

But, there is no need to take the `victim' role because I disagreed with your `expert advice' column that is an insult and `put down' to all who read it...not to mention definitely full of labels and over-generalizations; unless  `hobbyists should save up for the therapy they so obviously need,' `all providers naturally hate themselves for what they do,' and "the vast majority of providers out there suck big time" are ideas you expressed to "help all involved," and to be part of an "intelligent discussion."

I have no problem with people expressing themselves--I just disagreed with your assertion that I, along with all other providers, live in constant self-loathing...along with many of your other points.

I have had the pleasure of experienceing over 550+ Providers over the past 26 months, and all I can tell you right now, it there is no set rule, grouping, generalizations, stereotype, cultural or ethnical set to add all of this melting pot of providers into. P, you're so right. He must be joking....But that is just my opinion...and What do I know after seeing over 550 providers in 26 months? A whole lot more than him! EOM DateAMan