New to this hobby - providers give BBBJTC but then cover you up
for the deed.  This seems inconsistent in terms of safety. What
am I missing here!

http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/pubs/facts/oralsexqa.htm

this article by the government says almost 8% of these guys who got HIV got it through oral sex. isn't that rather high?
WTF?

I thought from all the stuff i'd read on TER that it was virtually impossible!!!???

H

Interesting. The article to which the link was provided reported that the HIV was contracted by those who PERFORMED the oral sex, not those who recieved it. In additrion, most of those who contracted it had bleeding gums or contact w/ semen. Finally, the article concludes that it is difficult to estimate how much HIV is transmitted by oral sex because other mean of infection usually cannot be ruled out. Finally, the article concludes that oral sex is an unlikely way of transmitting HIV. This seems odd considering the percentage of the sample was found to have contracted hiv this way (about 8% of about 120 cases studied), but might ber attributed to the sample not being representative of all those infected with HIV

That study refers to infected homosexual men provided oral sex.
The more interesting statistic here would be for heterosexual men who recieved oral sex. The demographics and the mod of transmission are both very different.

3 of the men had cases of periodic bleeding gums.  These were also men on men situations which had contact of semen and pre in their nasty mouths, ewwwwwwwww. No thank you I'll pass on that but whatever floats your boat I guess.  Doesn't mention any stats on oral sex to a female partner.  I would think it would be a very low percentage towards HIV but a little higher on other STD's.  

If you have any type of blood coming out of you in any situation don't you think that you should not come in contact with anyone.  

What I don't get is that snowballing thing, thats a little bit risky towards the provider I would think.  

Overall I think that providers are more at risk than clients are but hey I guess it starts from somewhere.  But definitely sure don't want the gift that keeps on giving thats for sure.  

Don't even know if I had read the original post correctly, heck its early and I haven't slept yet and I'm off to work in 30 minutes so I hope what I had written sort of makes sense.

Well everyone have a great week and stay safe.

Hey remember, it's your safety too.
You can always ask for a cover if you want it.
A good lady will not have a problem with a guy wanting to be safe.
It seem that most guys want BBBJ, so, since this is a buisness, alot of providers are offering them. Just because it is offered , doesn't mean you have to accept.
To each his own . Hobby safe & hobby often.

The risks of a BBBJ come up often (I brought it up in a post a week or so ago worrying about an STD--tests came back, I'm clean).  If you check the web you can find sites maintained by medical and social services agencies that report anything from a very slight risk to a considerable risk.

What I'd like to know is this:  Are there any hobbyists who *know* they've gotten an STD from a BBBJ (no chance it came from some other unprotected activity)?  Alternately, are there hobbyists who have been doing this for a while, regularly get BBBJs, and have had no problems with STDs?  Amassing personal experiences won't decide the risk scientifically, but it will give us all something more to consider.

Thanks

The problem with medical research is that it's based on past history ... which means that by the time something is actually KNOWN ..... 20 years have past since the problem was first noted.

Consider this:

In 1878, there was a scientific conference in Paris, where a very well noted scientist advocated suspending funds for scientific research because "all that is knowable is already known"

During the early part of the last century (1900-1930 something) the best and brightest in the scientific world absolutley KNEW that birds flew to the moon for the winter.

With the advent of open heart surgery, patients were kept in bed flat on their backs for two weeks after surgery because doctors knew that movement would kill them.  Today they're being made to walk within 24 hours of surgery because doctors know that being sedentary after surgery can kill them.

To date ... most of the studies we have on disease transmission are based on what we observe based on what the patient tells the researchers and we reach CONCLUSIONS over time more than we prove FACTS.

If you want a BBBJTC and you're OK with the fact that the provider also did that for the last guy, too and you're OK with the research on the subject that always says "Based on the samples of data we collected" and "it would seem that ..."  hobby on!

But if you get the bug .... or any of a hundred OTHER diseases that you might get ... just don't look to me and my tax dollars to research a cure for you.   We HAVE a method of prevention.  It's called TROJAN.

And let me know which providers you see .. so I can avoid them [pun alert] like the plague.

As stated in older posts by some physicians here, BBBJ is much more dangerous for the giver than the receiver. This study doesn't differentiate between the two. So our chances are much lower.

However, I still think if you're a provider or monger who knows that they have an uncurable STD (HIV, warts, herpes, etc), you should either stay away from the hobby completely, or let the other person know upfront.

BBBJ then cover up for the deed is inconsistent in my book. If you don't mind the approximately 1 in 9 (my estimated odds based on what I've read on the subject)chance of contracting something from BBBJ then by all means, get sucked. I don"t like the odds. Be brave at all times.

these discussion boards.  By doing a search on the boards you should be able to find these discussions.

Ok, let me get this straight. It seems most of you agree that there is very little risk if you're receiving the bbbj, but if you are giving it then yes, you're at some risk... Maybe even 8 in 100 (which, considering how many clients some escorts see is pretty high)

Um, doesn't anyone care about the women? And I'm surprised more women aren't posting on this thread!

That's a pretty big risk if you ask me! And if I were a provider and did bbbj's (which makes up a good portion of the women on this board) I'd frankly be scared for my LIFE!

So ladies, what's your opinion about this?

And men? Do you think with averages like this that ladies should even DO bbbj's? Hey it might feel a  little bit better but it could kill them. WTF?

Curious about your responses,

WATW

The "mixed message" is how this board gets all self-righteous about safe sex in a thread like this and then turns 180 degrees when the question of "do you visit CBJ or BBBJ providers" comes up. You all talk responsible and smart now, but when you're naked and your little head is in control....I wonder.

Once again we all need to be as well informed as possible on the risks associated with sexual activity in non-monogamous relationships and make an "informed choice" as to how we should proceed.

Absolute certainty is simply not attainable in this kind of activity in my view.

I've inluded a link to a somewhat older CDC document but one that may be a little more relevant in a general sense, since it is not confined to a study of such a small sample size/specific population.

ftp://ftp.cdcnpin.org/Updates/oralsex.pdf

There is of course abstinence if paranoia wins out over common sense, informed choices, and education about the facts/theoretical risks from respected, reputable sources.

Here's a link to the above referenced ftp site:

Preventing the Sexual Transmission of HIV, the Virus that Causes AIDS: What You Should Know about Oral Sex
(PDF only - 23 KB)

-- Modified on 9/17/2003 6:45:59 AM

-- Modified on 9/17/2003 6:56:19 AM

-- Modified on 9/17/2003 6:59:29 AM

It wasn't until I read THIS post that I realized we WEREN'T talking about the women - after all, these activities pose very little threat to the men in comparison to the risk for us.

Just because the ladies have not posted, does not mean they are NOT concerned. OF COURSE we are concerned - probably so much so as to be immobilized to a degree.
As I've said before, if we should start a trend of popular acceptance and demand and perform ONLY CBJ's, then let's do it.
Certainly a gentleman at any time can request it be covered for a BJ if that makes HIM more comfortable - why not? For my OWN safety, of course I would prefer it be covered but most of the clients wouldn't 'go for' that - preferring only to see ladies who offer BBJ's. I don't perform TC - CIM, yet the reality of it is that pre-cum etc. is still the risk - one can't truly deny that. And, although I'm considered 'low-volume' is that really any safety net for us LV versus high volume? Surely a false confidence. After all, you don't have to be in a room FULL of people with a Cold in order to catch a cold - just one person will do.
I put a HUGE faith in the men on getting themselves tested religiously, but, let's face it, I have great doubts you all do. After all, I've been married, and getting a man to the doctor for ANYTHING is like pulling teeth! Am I right? Hell, I had to make the appointment, AND go WITH him in order to be sure that he would go!
I think it's pretty fair to say that we ladies keep up regularly with our check ups, if not more frequently than actually necessary.
I happen to love BJ's - uncovered, of course. The pleasure I receive is the pleasure it gives you, but also my own. The risk we take is FOR you, and that's not really fair to our own health, nor to our personal life partners.
Ok, we've talked this to the Nth..so what to do? I hate to say it, but in a big sense, you guys set the trend... SO...

the study investigated the risk of transmission between gay men.

Not women and men !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Even if the 8/120 #'s are accurate you cannot say the same risk holds for women -- men.  I don't know much but I do know that.

is zero.  

You can't get AIDS from kissing people who have AIDS  (Kiss the people who are nice to you).  

Condoms are no perfect protection from other STDs when receiving oral sex.  The danger from oral sex for ANY STD is still very low.  Your mouth, immune system, and digestive system protects you from getting most diseases.  If that wasn't true, people would be in more danger from eating dirty or spoiled food than they are from sexual activities.

People who do oral sex are safe if they don't have cuts in their mouth (don't brush your teeth or floss and have oral sex right away).  If providers are concerned, a good mouthwash will reduce the risk.  It would be wiser to use a mouthwash rather than brush (which can introduce small cuts and increase the risk)...Harry

Well said! I've been following this board for several months and the issue of testing for STD's periodically comes up. I haven't yet seen examples of specific protocols other than frequency (i.e. every 3 months, etc.). What tests are done and what STD's don't show up in the tests? Would appreciate some input on this. I know one should check with their doctor, but you know us men, it takes an earthquake (the Big One!) to get us there! Besides there may not be medical consensus on this issue and open discussion is always valuable.
444

Every six months without fail. I put my reminders in Outlook just as you would any business appointments.
I usually choose my birthday month, and 6 months later as a double reminder, knowing that every birthday I get tested, and then right before Thanksgiving.
Obviously, anything suspect gets checked immediately.

What tests:
HIV, syphillis (sp), gonnorrhea (sp), chlamydia (sp), HPV (if they can)
Ask your Doc about Herpes.
Anything I forget?

MUST: vaccinate against HepB and HepA !!

Cover any open cuts; don't DATY (BBBJ) if you've been to the dentist or just flossed with bleeding. Swish 50/50 Peroxide/Water in your mouth after oral anything.
Personally, I say avoid sex during periods, but I will probably get clobbered for that statement.

I truely believe there are many women concerned. As Sedona was saying it is in general more up to the clients to set a trend. I would also have to say that I only preform CBJs, the point is it is for my safety and not the clients. Any client who doesn't agree with this doesn't have to see me. I am a safety girl in a safety World. I believe this is one trend we as the providers will have to set. Just tell the next client who insists on a BBBJ that you would be glad to as long as he is aware that the Practise of BBBJs has been shown in certain studies to have infected 8% of the participants with HIV. Also let him know that you are not sure of the %s for other STDs, but that they are certainly Higher and if he would like you to continue you will gladly. I am sure your clients would want you to walk into the street without looking so why aren't they more concerned about your safety in other aspects? I also think that we should be look at the other side of the issue which is if 8% are infected through unprotected oral sex what happens when they continue to have protected sex? Everyone knows that there are on occassion accidents. zEveryone be safe