I keep wondering to myself every time when our online hobby activity is exposed to the general public if we are doing more harm than good.

Some recent events from this past week come to mind such as MSNBC's story which showed the homepage of another site, or when TER's owner did a radio interview openly promoting this site. While some would claim that any publicity is good publicity, (and that may work for some Hollywood celebrities) I ask if this is really the right approach for us when we have not yet reached a level of public acceptance and tolerance. Have we reached a point where we can really be so nonchalant about our hobby activity? I fear that we might be letting our guard down a little too much sometimes; and/or we are simply being careless and lackadaisical regarding what used to the word of the day, every day: DISCRETION.

I have never felt such shameless self promotion of the hobby was necessary; those who want to find this site will find it on their own. Openly publicizing it can bring in other undesireable elements we don't need  nor want infiltrating our peaceful little online community. The counter argument could be that one must proactively promote ourselves and our hobby in a positive way in the community to gain public acceptance through informing and educating the masses. But is this prudent when we already know that the majority of the population (including but not limited to: wives, girlfriends, religious prudes, LE, politicians, etc.) are not prepared to be so open minded about learning what truly goes on in private behind our closed doors.

There was a time when I considered this activity (my/our hobby) to be somewhat of a secret double
life, and I mostly do consider it to still be this way, secretive behind closed doors encounters. However, I am finding this much more difficult to believe when I see a magazine advertisement for the website, or even primetime television directly quoting the online rating systems and exposing our procedures and methods.Not so long ago, my local board was filled, literally filled daily with a word of caution, or warnings about being discreet, dodging LE attempts, working under the radar, etc. The first things we always told the newbies were to act casual and don't draw any attention to yourself. Nowadays, I see people posting their entire life story in a blog that can be read by anyone, providers posting when and where they are working, practically inviting LE to come take them away if they have the time and resources to devote to it that week.

I don't mean to be so critical either of those who have attempted to present our ideals in a positve
light. I recognize and applaud their efforts as well intentioned, knowing their heart was in the right place at the time. And I'm certain much time, thought and care was taken in making many of those public statements we've seen in the media. I only ask if this is the right place in history and the right time for our soceity to have to deal with these issues.

I guess the real point I wish to get across and what I'm really proposing is a return to the idea of constantly maintaining that good solid discretion that I used to know.
So are the times changing, or have the times changed enough that we can regularly and openly expose our hobby and all that it entails to just anyone and everyone?
... Or if we do so, are we doing more harm than good?



(politely stepping down off my soapbox)
OK, I've stated my case and said my peace, discuss amongst yourselves, feel free to flame if you must...


       
                 

-- Modified on 1/23/2006 10:44:00 PM

All who visit here on this site are simply a customer of an entrepreneurial man (or group) and his vision to pursue a financial goal. You, and all those he can attract, are simply a means to achieve those goals...

I am working on a web site to promote my business; if I could get MSNBC to promote it I would possibly be able to retire from the free publicity alone.

The theme of this site is older than all of us. I don’t think educating the public on the nobleness of this “hobby” amounts to a hill of beans...the reality is,
“It’s all about the $$$”

SM

As much as I wish the hobby was more readily known and "accepted" by the mainstream I too have noted each time I step out of our "bubble" and mingle with the outside; accepted it's clearly not and doubtfully ever will be.

  Here in SoCal a very popular provider and her ex-husband (but still SO) were recently arrested on P&P. The bail imposed on each of them would make you think they were plotting a political assassination. The ensuing media coverage is also fairly grandiose for their otherwise benign victimless crime.

  GW is having a hissy fit because GOOGLE is ignoring his subpoena so he can go on a witch hunt looking for Kiddie Porn aficionados.(it always starts with thwarting the most malevolent then slowly escalates to the benign) The FCC has regulated TV and radio to a point of forcing us to pay for both if we want to be entertained and now they are scheming to put both those (recent) industries in their puritanical cross-hairs. 50% of our population sees to lose their manipulative power over “their” men via sex (or lack of) by the proliferation of the hobby and this is something they are NOT going to allow. As much as I wish different I would have to concur that the present climate is not favorable for a “Coming Out”  

For something like this, you could only judge retroactively if the timing is wrong.  In a way it wasn't secret.  Anybody could have gone to a provider's website.  Anybody could find this site or any other hobby site.  

The fact that most people wouldn't, and wouldn't look for one doesnt' mean that LE couldn't.  In which case, LE knew all about it.  If they know all about it and choose to crack down on it, then I'd much rather that the public know of it too.    

The internet has changed things drastically, in that we now know that most of us are not criminals, and in fact, most of us are very ethical.  Moreover, we found out other things, like how untrue the stereotypes about this really are.  And we found that, despite the reputation that there is no emotional attachment in sex-for-money, that many times there is.  We found out about MILF's, and they are ordinary women just trying to raise their children.  

Once you find out about all this, then a drive for acceptance becomes inevitable.  People are too lonely for one thing, but for another, they'd like some protection from the law.  They'd like a safer way to conduct business, too.

Sex is too large a part of human life to supress it on anything like the internet.  When people begin to see the cost of trying to stuff the genie back in the bottle, then the hobby might just win.

Staying in the shadows is always a lot safer than drawing a bull's eye on your back.
The political reality in this country right now is that right wing politics prevail, and therefore the orders have come down from "on high" to get the low lifes, (That's us folks.)
We have two choices:  Lie low and wait for this thing to blow over (It will.) or take our case to the public and hope a backlash will develop when it is exposed how benign our hobby is.
I am not decided yet.  It's a tough one.

This has nothing to do with right wing or left wing.  Radical feminists (extreme left) are a powerful lobby and very anti-prostitution.  Also, its important to remember, that if police want to bust legitimate providers, it will require a lot of resources and funds - something under-financed police forces don't have.  That's why they set up decoy street prostitutes or hotel stings.  Its much easier to just set up a sting and have the guys come to you, then sending police out to track down the thousands of independents out there.  Therefore, TER is not doing more harm than good.

deflect attention from the failures of his administration:  the war in Iraq, education, energy dependency on the Middle East, alienation of the rest of the World, rejection of the Kyoto accords (industrial emissions are not harmul to the environment) cronyism, self-dealing (no bid contracts), yada, yada, yada.  In an election year, an organized, immoral hobby such as ours would be a lovely plum to serve up to the Religous Right.

Toady's climate is definitely not the time to come out into public view.  As mentioned in prior post the goal is most likely $$$ but in achieving that goal the person/persons doing so may be biting off their own nose in spite of their face.
With puritan views being pushed to the fore front the publicity will most likely make it's community members very vulnerable.  Craig's list is a prime example, it seems to have become a very effective tool w/ L. E.  in various area's.
How soon will we began to read in various news articles that one of the major, review boards was a source for locating individuals that were involved in trafficking or some other felony.  After all most article highlighting the boards, have not shown them in the most positive light.  I mean sure a radio show Similar to Howard Stern will likely do a fair representation of the hobby and it members, but mainstream media is just not ready to partake in seeing the hobby as harmless or victimless.
We all know that L. E knows about the boards.  But as mentioned why paint a bulls eye on your back, giving bored housewives, religious fanatics and angry girlfriends a cause or reason to start lobbying their local politicians about the contents of the boards.

-- Modified on 1/24/2006 9:44:33 AM

This happens once a year in this industry.. everyone gets their feathers in a tailspin over 2-5 busts, over one or two news articles.. Everyone gets more hyper than a horny 10 peckered jack rabbit..(LOL,I stole that from my friend Kat in Indy) ..Anyhow..

There is no bad publicity ! Sure many may leave this site, or the hobby, but just as many that leave, have just now found out about it, and Im sure they just paid their vips today. Watch and see how many new people come out of the woodwork..

My great friend Beverly in Denver once told me, There is no bad publicity !!!

Just my so many cents

-- Modified on 1/24/2006 11:18:09 AM

Think about how you found TER.  Was it from one of the 30+ weekly newspapers we advertise in each week? Was it from the back cover of Penthouse Magazine?  Was it one of our full page color ads in Penthouse Letters, Hustler, Club, Club Confidential, Club international, Oui, or several others? Was it from the over 2000 provider sites that run our gold emblems? Was it from the thousands of sites that run our banners or link to our reviews?

Since the beginning I have done anything in my power to let the world know about TER.  Currently over 350,000 guys a day visit the site.  Somehow I think the secret is out.

-- David (aka Staff)

What are we going to do with this large "voting block" that we have become? We do all seem to share a "special intrest", right?

There is also safety in numbers, I think that as we stampede our way through this hobby as a "herd" we are less likely to be singled out by the predators!  I just don't want to be that one foolish wildebeest that stands at the edge of the group looking the wrong direction..... That's the one who's going to get it!

does no good to be a Silent Majority.

and the most likely outlet would be thru the same people that lobby for adult videos, or general civil liberties types.

See above, the Army has just made hobbying a court-martial offense.

Between the right wing that hates sex, and the left wing that hates sex, normal folks are gonna get squeezed.

There is no doubt that the secret was out; and obviously LE knew about us all along. But does it ever concern anyone that these ads are viewed by someone outside of the intended target audience (jealous wives, angry girlfriends); or do we need even worry about it?

As much as I like to see this site, and the hobby in general, shown to the public positively; I'm  just not comfortable talking about it in public myself, knowing that I (and I think most all of us) still hide it from friends, family and coworkers. I much prefer to maintain a low profile assuming that political advocacy will lead us nowhere at this point in time.

Although our approach may be different, we're all here for the same reason; and if I've learned anything from the hobby at all, it's that "it takes all kinds".(keep up the good work)


... and just for record, I found TER because I was searching for escort resources, not becuase I saw an ad to lead me to it. I'm so glad I found it and happy to still be here.

-- Modified on 1/24/2006 10:24:05 PM

or so you stated in your interview.  This makes total sense.  There is one thing to be popular 'underground' (i.e. 350,000/day) and there is another to stick our hobby right under the noses of those who would (incredibly) be unaware how easy you have made it to hobby (for which I thank you Dave).  The cat is out of the bag...agreed, but perhaps it should keep its wanderings to the back alleys?

-- Modified on 1/24/2006 10:36:03 PM

Perfect example is Hugh Hefner, He fought tall the battles with politics, politicians and the rest of the nation who hated him and called him a pervert, ... Look where he is standing today, ... I believe if this community stays strong and united, one day not so far hobby would get the vote for legalization.

Wow. I think I found it via...

Google --> Cityvibe --> Provider --> TER

We are known to LE.  Heck, anyone with an interest in Ford Escorts (the cars) will find out about TER.  I agree with him in that if the public knows about this (whether an individual hobbies or not) they will become aware that not all participants in this hobby are criminal, rather adults seeking either comfort, companionship, or sexual relations that they cannot obtain elsewhere.  This includes the ladies in the hobby.  

What I like about raising the visibility is that much as with prohibition, it points to the fact that a lot of people engage in this activity.  In fact, in going to the recent local meet & Greet - my greatest fear was that I would Meet & Greet my next door neighbors...!  I didn't but it could happen.  

I also like raising the visibility for another reason - I like most of the women I have met in this hobby - and I certainly wish them well - but if they have to keep their earnings hidden - that will mean that they cannot plan for retirement, have adequate health and dental insurance etc.  sooooo.... by raising the visitibility - it will make it easier for them to take advantage of the mainstream services and activities in which we who do not make our living by the hobby partake.

I also agree that the internet has really changed both the participants in the hobby, the providers and the attitude of all - and I must say for the better....  

A long long time ago, in a state far away - there was a massage parlor that I used to visit - ONLY ONE gal there in all the times that I visited would have had the looks, personality and intelligence to compete in today's market - That is saying something.

And she, whose name we mustn't say, should be proud of our American attempt to become a little more like her enlightened land! (which we cannot mention as well)

http://www.theeroticreview.com/reviews/show.asp?id=15172

TER provides us all with a heretofore non-existent service, and in an unparalleled way.  They have a right to make $ in this free world, and a lot of it for a service well-run!!

I might get blasted for this, but feel they could easily charge more for VIP and start charging for general membership -- and ideally, for everyone visiting the site after perhaps a 2-month free trial period.  Increasing advertising on TER is another viable option (despite the limited number of major comapanies which would advertise on our non-mainstream site).

Would prefer paying more in order to reduce publicity and protect ourselves.....  Easy to find TER, as mr.man stated, for those sincerely interested in the hobby.  Via publicity, we're likely to get thousands of curious spouses, LE, politicians, etc as new 'members', perhaps even posting, giving false reviews, and creating personable aliases, disrupting the integrity of the site, contributing to much danger for all, and ultimately a potential demise.

accepting this.  Let's be real.  Will take time, maybe centuries.