I recently had a hospitalization in which I suffered immense amounts of both physical & emotional pain. I am pretty open about my health issues with clients, and have chose this line of work to be able to work around them. I am not the most perfect provider, but I try my best to communicate and work through any issues that come up.

In the midst of this hospitalization, I had no access to my phone it actually got horribly damaged during my health issues. I was in the hospital for over 3 weeks, which is a pretty intensive stay. I was supposed to be on tour at this time but obviously I was busy.

I am VERY OPEN on my twitter, comically unhinged some may say. I use it as a blog to communicate on mass scale with multiple clients. Luckily I have a deceased family member's phone, it's still not switched over to my number sadly since my mom has still been grieving & has not uploaded all the photos off of it. I live with her part-time because she is taking care of my grandparents part of the week so when I can take a month or two off to help her keep up with the house & take care of pets while she is gone, I do that. She also helps me when I am not well & need a place to recover. During this time I have tweeted every detail of what happened and most SMART clients have found me, messaged me on there & anyone who sent a deposit will be meeting me on my next tour. I try to save deposits for as long as I can on my cashapp but if I anticipate earning that amount or more from other clients in the meantime I am guilty of using it for personal reasons. Maybe it's not the MOST responsible but I am also not going to starve, I know clients hate hearing those things but I will do what I can to eat & have basic necessities.

I guess I'm rambling but let me get to the point - one of my slightly solid clients (I say slightly because if I raise my rates he disappears which I was warned of in a provider reference before seeing, mind you he doesn't have the best references. Not terrible but not great) However we had great chemistry & I enjoyed seeing him quite a bit so I cut him slack. However please tell why I had to endure multiple emails also messages on my tryst of this man hounding me over 200? I get he has the right to be upset but it is hurtful that his wording was "I don't like being ripped off" which also kinda comes off threatening & ominous. I have been incredibly honest with so many clients, some say too honest but I've heard a lot of them like my authenticity so why change? I have great ratings on here as well as another site. I at least think I deserve a little more kindness.

Something terrible actually happened and in this line of work we are constantly endangering ourselves to be able to provide this service, if a provider just disappears that should really be concerning to you... I've had really hard time in some areas with rougher clients, I try so hard to vet very carefully and not let toxic clients ruin the whole game for me. I genuinely wouldn't scam anyone for 200, I'd rather maintain the integrity of my business as well as get the full amount at the meet. My instant reaction was to log onto here and make sure he didn't give me any awful reviews, which thankfully he did not.  He didn't even ask if I was okay he just assumed I was scamming him. I apologized in my first response, and offered to make up the meet on my next tour but after thinking about it, I don't really want to see a client who would get so nasty over 200 and assume I would compromise my standing as a business woman over that. I deserve a lot more respect and I just went through hell.

SO needless to say I don't care about his 200 deposit. And I hope other clients don't lose trust in me. I've been working hard, I have other jobs, I had a lot of family deaths this year as well dealing with my dog getting stolen right before my birthday which also happens to be on Christmas. My system literally shut down because I was overwhelmed with PTSD & grief, I wasn't able to eat or hydrate and my whole just gave u[p. I can't afford it mentally to be around men who throw tantrums.  

It's always the cheapest clients who behave this way. There are clients who had to cancel on me & paid me for the entire meet without blinking an eye. There are clients who have gone above & beyond for me. I've even been told I need higher rates by multiple clients because of how pleasant & sweet I am. So I am raising my rates & I will make good on this tour & make it up to all the clients who were patient & understanding and also smart enough to have twitter accounts. I get twitter is not every man's cup of tea but holy moly all that effort to harass me through email & tryst and he couldn't think to make a quick twitter account? If 200 was genuinely THAT important it could've been done.

I hope clients see this a cautionary tale. I am HUMAN. I have health problems, same as most of you. I have a family, I have other goals, businesses & investments in the works constantly. I understand losing money is upsetting but my life, my safety and my sanity mean a lot more to me personally than a 200 deposit. I worked hard to get good reviews on here & I did not deserve a REGULAR who I never wronged before accuse me of ripping him off. I am a damn treat and a privilege to be around. Don't compromise your standing with a good companion over a mere 200. That's really sad & I hope this was a learning moment for some of you.

I am so sorry you are struggling like you are. Life can be so unfair at times. You are correct, we are all human, we all make mistakes. All we can do is learn from them and move on. You have been through a lot so please take care of yourself. Prayers and good karma headed your way!

I am so sorry to hear what you are going through

of how deposits can cause grief for both sides.   All of this could have been avoided if there was no deposit involved.  

 
The readers digest version for me is that he booked an appointment, gave you a deposit, you had an unexpected hospitalization that forced YOU to cancel the session, you did not HOLD his deposit, you spent it, and when he asked you for it back, you said, "No," then he became a jerk, which is a foreseeable consequence of ANY business taking a deposit, not performing, and then not giving the deposit back on request.  Is this pretty much the chronology of how it happened?

 
Here was your mistake . . . . deposits from customers remain their property and should merely be held for security to insure he/she will show up.  If they don't show, the deposit is forfeited and becomes YOUR property, and you are THEN free to spend it.  Likewise, once he arrives at the session and pays the balance, the money becomes yours, not before.  Regardless of whether you have a good excuse for cancelling, which I tend to agree you did, the deposit never became yours, but you treated it like it was.  You must always treat a deposit as a deposit until it is earned, not as income.  Any business owner, CPA, or attorney will tell you deposits are booked on the balance sheet as a liability, because it does not convert to earned income until the customers perform what they have to do, in this case, show up for the session at the time and place agreed.  

 
As much as I feel bad for you that your hospitalization caused you to have to cancel appointments and lose the income, these circumstances do not allow you to KEEP a deposit when you are at fault, for whatever reason, that the session did not happen.  It should have been returned on the first request.

-- Modified on 2/15/2024 11:54:59 AM

OK....I have read this a few times and I am still confused. Why did you not return the $200 to the client?

So did you give him his deposit back? You don't mention if you did or not, and, given the tenuous nature of deposits, I can only assume that you did not.

 
You seem to have a clear perspective on your end of things, which is a good step 1. You seem to have very little knowledge of your customer's perspective however. To him, you ghosted him and stole his money, which, I'd think you'd be rightfully upset if such a thing had happened to you, in fact you even mention that you're upset about your dog being stolen, so clearly you have similar proclivities.

That doesn't excuse your customer for being nasty, but it does explain it, which is a good step 2. Remember, you may be a delight to spend time with in general, for any one customer you're either a delight or you're not, for this one you were not. Which is to say that every individual customer interaction exists in a vacuum, if a customer is acting like you are the worst hooker on planet earth, it's because to them, you are in fact the worst hooker on planet earth.

 
 
Realistically, this situation should have been handled once you were well, with a single email.  
"Hey %firstname%, I'm so sorry that I was unable to get back to you until now, I just spent 3 weeks in the hospital and was unable to. I've sent you back your deposit via %payment app% and I hope I can make it up to you in person once I'm well enough to travel and get back to your area. Yours, Winter Ryleigh"

That reply works regardless of how they'd acted prior, and, it exists irrespective of how they'll respond. You don't need to actually see them again, you don't need to actually be sorry, you don't need to ramble or explain or anything of the sort, you just need to do the right thing, and communicate you did the right thing, to the best of your ability. After you're done with that, block them and forget about them, doesn't matter, not worth spending the finite amount of energy you possess on it.

 
And as an aside, energy management would be a good thing for you to work on. PTSD, Grief, Feeling Overwhelmed, Etc, all of that comes down to you starting the day with a finite amount of energy, and then spending that energy unwisely. You can fix it by taking some more time for you, and only you, ideally in nature, ideally in sunshine. Personally, I like doing yoga outside on my patio, I rarely miss a day, and it gives me time to relax, and process, away from distractions, to push my body a little, and to remain connected to the world around me. I don't get into the woowoo spiritual side of yoga, it's bullshit as far as I'm concerned, but the mechanical aspects of it are good. I've found that, the nightmare rectangles (monitors, phones, etc) we stare at tend to poison us a little, and the antidote is to unplug intentionally once in awhile.

First, I am sorry this happened to you. It's terrible that you were hospitalized and understandable that you had to cancel your tour. And, I get you were not in a position to communicate to clients who pre booked you. I won't harp on collecting deposits, because in the end that is your right and any client who doesn't like it doesn't have to book you. I will also not drag you through the mud for spending it. While technically, a deposit is not yours and you shouldn't be spending it, if you truly are living off your earnings as you make them and are not able to save up for a rainy day, you do what you have to do to survive. Long term, I would say you should try to figure this one out because not having savings for rainy days is a dangerous way to live.

 
If this client has trust issues, despite seeing you before, I can see him being upset. He does not know your situation. Mind you, even being upset doesn't mean he is free to say whatever he wants to you. There are lines that should not be crossed. Without knowing the details of what he said, I can't really pass judgment on it though. And cheap is all relative. For some, $200 is no skin off their back. This doesn't really make them generous. It means they prefer not to be bothered for something that doesn't mean as much to them. For others, $200 might be a bigger deal. Being upset over it doesn't make that person cheap. Rather, it can be an expression of how much it matters to that person. I think the word cheap is thrown around a bit too much.

 
All that said, I'm not really clear on what you did and/or offerred to do with the $200. I understand for some clients you agreed with them to hold it until your next tour. And, if you both agreed, that is fine. If he was not okay with this, that is his right. If you don't have the $200 to give him because of your situation, I would think the next best thing is to offer to get it to him as soon as you can. If you are back out there earning, than you own it to pay him back.

 
Now, I know what you may be thinking. Key word may, because I don't really know lol. But if you are thinking, screw him, he was an a-hole and I am keeping his $200 because he doesn't deserve it back. Well, that's just wrong, but I also kind of get it. When I was younger I owed a coworker some money. Every paycheck I paid him some of it back. I was 19, living paycheck by paycheck, and I got paid every two weeks. Every day, he would call me asking where his money is, scream at me, and say some not kind words. For awhile, I kept my cool, took it, and kept promissing to pay him some each time I got paid. After weeks of this, I got fed up. I told him to go f himself and I was done paying him any money back. I did this because he went too far too many times.

I agree with Coeur and MissScarlet.  In this case it seems like the lines between business and personal use of said deposit have been blurred.  Your sense of entitlement in this matter is alarming.  You cannot take someones money via deposit, then act as if you are somehow innocent and they are now a dangerous person that you shouldn't be subjected to seeing as a regular, when you in fact took his money under the guise of booking a date and are now using it for your personal expenses with no date in sight.  That takes a lot of audacity.  And at the same time you try and rationalize it by saying that you still have to live, and eat, and provide basic necessities for yourself.  After all, isn't the standard claim of every provider that requests a deposit " that the money be refunded if the provider has to cancel?"  That's not the clients problem, that's more on you.  At your current rate ($500/hr) that's lawyer territory, you're literally making anywhere from 10 to 15x what the normal wage for medium to high earners are per hour.  So not to count your money but, you can/should definitely be able to afford to put some funds away for a rainy day.  

 
On the topic of deposit, it seems like more and more providers view this as monopoly money.  Idk about the next guy, but $200 is alot of money for me, and sure I see providers that range anywhere from $200 to $600, but the money is forked over once I get to the room and service is rendered shortly thereafter.  But again, $200 is alot of money.  You seem to be jaded by that fact just a little with some of your statements pointing out "Don't compromise your standing with a good companion over a mere 200." and "SO needless to say I don't care about his 200 deposit".  Well if it's so "mere" and "you don't care" then why did you not return it until you were well enough to resume seeing clients?  You can't talk out of both sides of your mouth.  And truth be told, you seem to be the one that has compromised the good standing with the client.  I personally have worked hard for my money, and if I were in said situation, I would be a bit pissed off too.  IMO maybe you should start a Gofundme or just flat out ask your clients on Twitter/X for donations.  And in all honesty, most of us clients are just like everyone else.  We pay our bills, then budget however much in for hobbying, except for the few where money is really no object.  

Or accept being characterized as a rip-off.

Do you have to come over here now and post something I agree with?

 
I will do a deposit in certain circumstances, but simply move on when it doesn’t feel right; we don’t see eye to eye on that. But the statement that if there had been no deposit in play here, then the drama wouldn’t have happened is true enough.  

 
On the chronology, I THOUGHT she was saying he sent her several jerky messages, bordering on threatening, before she was able to get ahold of him, when he was in limbo. But I’m not sure about that.  
There’s nothing here to say is wrong. Shit.  LoL!

a disappointment to you.  Lol

 
I discounted the extraneous back and forth she described with the guy because it had nothing to do with whether or not she was entitled to keep the deposit for a vague unilateral future promise of delivery (she can only retain the deposit if he agrees, and it's still subject to eventual return upon request, but he didn't agree).  I think she was just adding the drama to justify and validate her action to not give it back on request.  The guy could have handled it another way by posting a PSA here warning that she can't be trusted to HOLD the deposit without spending it.  TER will also allow a rip-off report even if the session did not occur once he has calmed down and given up completely on getting his deposit back.  The way she managed this, it was not really a deposit, it was a "down payment", so she should make that clear and NOT call it a deposit.  Otherwise, this is typical of what will likely happen.  

-- Modified on 2/15/2024 8:39:21 PM

You really need to understand if you haven't given the deposit back, that almost every client with a spine would be upset at this.  

 
Tbh I rarely see such unity here on ter. I think it could be worth putting yourself in your clients shoes. He paid deposit and got nada back. Of course he's angry and thinks it's a scam. He paid 200 for absolutely nothing. I don't even think he's being nasty as far as you've described, I think it's a natural reaction.  

Moreover, giving you've seen him multiple times he probably thinks you've betrayed him too.

 
This should be rectified easily by giving the deposit back and explaining your situation. In that order or maybe in parallel.

I'm not sure what else to say. Cdl got it right. Another instance where deposit policy hurt both of you.

My twin has been battling health issues & I totally understand your frustration. I see how life happens, and when it does many of your so called friends/clients are exposed as who they truly are shallow. It hurts I am sure $200 is so minor. Sometimes it’s better to let the old clients go if they have no empathy. I am truly sorry for your continued health struggle. Just know you’re not alone. Many providers a fighting silent battles. 🫶🏽🤗💋Sending you love & positivity. Smile for me!

spent it like it was already hers.  

So it can be very difficult when emergencies occur.  It important to manage your money carefully and  always  have a plan A,B ,and even C ,so to speak. Hopefully you get back on your feet soon  and is able to rectify with your clients.  
I wish you the best, and I  understand, as I had helped out a provider  before that I had gotten to know.

important for providers to manage other peoples' money carefully, like not spending it until it is has been converted to earned income by completing the session and collecting the balance.  Only at that point does the money become theirs.    

because the client didn't create a twitter account where he would have been notified of her situation?  I looked at her ad and I couldn't find any requirement to join twitter for future notifications regarding changes to her schedule.  

I do have empathy for her situation but a couple things really stick out.  She claims she is a businesswoman and has businesses and investments in the works [constantly] but apparently no savings or alternate revenue source(s).  What happens if she catches an STD and needs to sit out 2-4 weeks?  I'm guessing she's not going to take a break and just keep the thing(s) spreading around?

To me, writing this whole story over a John getting mad about not getting his $200 back is in itself preposterous and may indicate something about her current state of mind.

I didn't care for the way she closed her manifesto however.  She summed it up for us rubes.  After declaring that her integrity means less than her life, safety and sanity.  I'll speculate further and guess that the deposit money was never really set aside and who would do that?  Refunds would just be sourced from current cash flow.  Problem is, when that faucet slams shut, the misappropriation has already occurred and has now technically become embezzlement.  

The hubris of the last 3 sentences though, lol.  I'm a goddess who will decide what is best done with YOUR money and the rest of you dumbasses take note of how this works.

treat deposits as earned income as soon as they receive it.  Many don't plan on giving it back no matter what happens, so they go ahead and spend it.  They should have a "provider trust account" to hold other peoples' money just like an attorney is required to have.  

What is the purpose of asking for a deposit from a regular client? Did you not trust him?  Whatever the reason, the respect you want from him doesn't seem to be there on your side either.

Agreed. Miss Winter sure appears as an AVOID AT ALL COSTS provider based on her behavior and her hubris.

Straight up, you stole his deposit by your own admission. Even if it wasn't your "intention" it is what you did.  

Your social media makes it seem like you're burned out. You should retire.

The escrow topic has come up on General a few times. I only found one, but there were others.
http://www.theeroticreview.com/discussion-boards/ter-general-board-12/re-virus-retainers-965545

The only way to do escrow would be if you could do so without a trusted 3rd party. That sounds, of course, like it's impossible, but, there are blockchain projects that do exactly that. In a way, the math *is* the trusted 3rd party here, which, little more trustworthy than basic maths, so it works.

 
Downside is, hardly anyone in this hobby is clever enough to actually use it, so, a pipe dream for now.

That's the part that did it for me, lol.  I was lulled into a sympathetic boob halfway thru her manifesto and trying to understand the experience through her lens and didn't quite process the end that turned into a lecture as she did a 180 and turned preacher on us.  Somewhere between the moment she decided to write her long drawn out apology and the time she came to a close, GPS reared it's ugly head and came shining thru.  

Maybe there's 3 other seasons that also occupy space in this woman's head?

J'es sayin',

In my newbie days, an occasional provider would fabricate an injustice, then use this as an excuse to keep my deposit.

I hope this not what's happening here.

ATTB

I am very sorry you are having a rough time however posts like this do nothing but hurt reputable professional providers who require deposits.  And there are lots of them.  Posts and actions like yours hurt us all.  

My collective does not require deposits but I know a bunch of providers who do because they do not have private incalls and a no call / no show costs them between 200 - 250 dollars.  You are legit making it so hard because clients never focus on the fact that the majority of providers handle the deposit system correctly and would never dream of blatently telling a client they are keeping their $200.

They focus on posts like yours and will repeat how you blatently said you don't care your not returning the deposit.  They use it as an excuse even though how you handle stuff is incredibly rare.    

You are making it harder on other providers and honestly you owe that man $200.  All you had to do was tell him you needed a bit to get it back to him.  

I bet if a client owed you $200 you would not be happy, what's the difference?  

The statement that many providers don't plan on giving back deposits is false and you post it to further your 'no deposit' agenda.

In every profession there are wild cards.  She is one of them.  I agree that what she did sucks big time and is unaccaptable.

Twitter / boards / everywhere would be flooded with rip-off reports if what you said is true.  Deposits happen all the time and for incredibly good reasons.  Stop acting like there is some huge industry problem.  You know there is not.

Look, I get it. You don't want to screen and you don't want to pay deposits.  Do neither but don't be out there spreading false info because you have seen a bunch of providers and live on the TER general board keyboard warrioring and weirdly domming other guys by calling them simps.

And don't you mainly see K-girls?  Thats a whole different scene totally and you know it.  Two entirely different worlds than independent providers or even other agencies.  You know this.

The way you feel about providers certainly does smack of a guy who wants to see k-girls who don't speak much english.

Therapy is the place to work out your anger issues with women, not TER.

-- Modified on 3/1/2024 9:39:13 PM

Deposit may not be your thing  but for providers  it's  a virtue. If you cancel  your agreed date on short notice or is a 'no call no show', she get  some compensation given the fact that she could have scheduled someone else in your time slot .
If you re a guy who don't make arrangements ahead of time then yout no deposit is justified.  
 Don't be so cold hearted though ,be mindful of  good providers. They are an asset to us.

Life happens ,don't be so rigid. You don't hate wormed do you ?
Don't  treat all providers the same,some good ones out there.
Yes some is all about their  money and won't cut you a slack and will complain about ..for eg. 5 minutes over the time.  
So all am saying is we allare human (hopefully) and things happen,so  all we have to do is  work thing out .

against women who have been wormed.  If they needed it, then it's for their own good.  

 
My practice is to treat everyone the same.  I give everyone the benefit of any doubts until they prove that they don't deserve it by word or deed.  

we agree on quite a bit - always have; however, I don't necessarily agree here. To me, asking a regular to provide a deposit is not a trust issue, it's a respect issue. In addition, I love stats and analytics and per my own analytics, every time I have relaxed the rules of engagement for regulars when it comes to my deposit and cancellation policy, that's when they start to push boundaries, cancel last minute, refuse to pay cancellation fees, etc.. Therefore, I have found it best to have everyone, even if you are a regular I absolutely adore, to just play by the rules.

could be eliminated for good if providers would just tell the truth and put in their website that the deposit is either 1) refundable on request up to a certain time before the session (similar to cancelling a hotel room, usually 24-48 hours), 2) non-refundable (as soon as you pay it, it's hers), or 3) will be held pending rescheduling and applied to a future session.  (This allows mongers to make an informed decision on what they are getting themselves into if they choose to comply with a deposit request.)

I've alway avoided providers with deposits, because it's a zelle, paypal, vemmo, credit cards are all trackable.  Also, not interested in buying a bunch of gift cards in advanced.  

...and I can easily agree.