…and i have noticed two trends based in the posts and reviewing many profiles

1. fewer ladies are accepting “just references” as a method of screening. back in may of 2025 it seemed a lot wanted references and i was having trouble booking. LinkedIn, selfies, and ID with address blocked seems to be getting more commonplace.  

2. rates are climbing very fast. i get there is inflation and what not but here in the nyc region at some point it will be difficult to find a decent provider for under 1000/hour. i know many on here are quite wealthy but i, while notnin the poorhouse, only see women every few weeks.  

some women make me scratch my head as to why they charge as much as they do. clearly they are getting that much so who am i to judge, but i guess it is subjective as always assumed blond slender white girls under 25 can command the highest rates….

always assumed blond slender white girls under 25 can command the highest rates….

This is interesting and I totally disagree.  

#1 - myself personally I have never required references.

#2 - I think rates have been high because everything costs more now.  

#3 - a women's value is not set on the color of their skin, how much they weigh, or by their hair color that's very stereotypical. What about the mature white, blonde who is thick with experience is she not worth $1000 an hour in your eyes? 🤔  

I am curious what's the meaning of your post?  You are very judgmental. Expertise does not usually come at age 25. Shallow.

Rates vary by multiple factors: area, service, maintained looks, etc. No one has the right to tell us what we “should” charge. Btw men like variety so your assumption is wrong. Not to put it harshly, but if you want quality this hobby isn’t meant to be affordable.. but it’s cheaper than a wife or divorce lol.  

The reason some providers no longer accept just references:

1) We reach out and provider says she doesn’t give references at all, or doesn’t remember any info from the booking - now how is she supposed to screen you?
2) Clients abuse reference etiquette - listing a provider they never saw, or once 8yrs ago.  
3) References aren’t 100% reliable. Ive given a reference to a client who treated me well then lo and behold he No Call No Showed/acted inappropriately with her.  
4) Some providers give out references like candy and their judgment can’t be trusted.

i am personally happy if references goes away as an indistry standard because they take time and many providers charge to provide them, which i don’t blame them for because time is money

you are entitled to your opinion, but the fact of the matter is that as a rule, younger women will always be preferred and can charge a higher rate. if i was a cop and wanted to hook people in a sting, i promise you i would get more arrests with a fake ad that features a fake provider “18WF, blonde, cheerleader, trained gymnast, curves in right places, 50hh 100hh, ask about BBFS for an upcharge”

i realize that is not PC

with that being said, i personally don’t care about age or skin color, only how in shape they are

i was commenting on what i have seen on tryst in the oast year in the nyc metro area

i remind myself all the time that this is cheaper than dating and long term relationship upkeep - you are just paying the money upfront!

maybe one day i will crunch the numbers and post the analysis on here. i think i will title my analysis “Why high end escorts are the cheapest sex you will ever have…even when they are not”

i also agree that just references is a bad idea for provider safety as it also takes more time bevaise you have to get in touch with the privider and then the client has to wait anxioisly….

Not criticizing your point, as you are essentially correct, just widening its scope a bit. What you are referring to, the higher rates and more intrusive verification demands, started about 4–5 years ago and not just in thelast year.
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Yes, rising rates in P4P are attached to rising inflation rates, to be sure, but it goes well beyond that. For many segments of this lifestyle, providers fees have far outpaced ordinary, everyday inflation. The big difference is the massive change in the supply and demand sitch that happened under SESTA/FOSTA and COVID.
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When COVID vaccines became readily available in 2022, an unprecedented number of clients jumped back into the waters, with newbies who had delayed for a full year coming in as well. They all leaped back into the pool at roughly the same time, causing unprecedented pent up demand while simutaneously, there was a much lower number of providers, and voilà...dramatic price increases were born.
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The reason, in part, that some women may charge higher than the market is that they have different financial needs and may also have differing demands on their time. Supply and demand certainly has an effect in this realm, but not with everyone. Some women won't go out the door unless they get X amount of dollars to do so. Others may be in school, have full time civvie jobs, be caring for a child, a loved one, etc. the list is endless.
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They also found additional income streams through OF, camming, etc and working from home in their civie job suddenly presented them more opportunity to explore those other, at home financial avenues.  
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Many women also came to the realization that if they charge much more, and therefore go out less, they still end the month with as much, if not more, money. It was an experiement that surpised many p4p women and realy, who wouldn't sign up for LESS hours and MORE money at work? lol

As for RW info being required more often now, Brielle's points fit quite nicely into that answer, but I think she is missing the biggest one: RW info allows women to do a background check on you, something that references simply can't. It alos give sthe guy much less incentive to act like a jackass when he is in the prescence of a provider as he has the potental for being outed for any aggregious behavior he may commit.  
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Also, many women provide in areas where they grew up, and getting PII eliminates the possibility that they could run into the boy they knew from high school or their dad's best friend. lol.

First off, he stated upfront that a lot of him perspective was drawn from posting trends he’s seen over the last year.

As to young, white providers being able to command the highest rates? That’s just not the OP saying that.  It’s very easy to find non-white providers on social media complaining about how much harder it is for them to make money in the business than it is for the white girls.  The OP picking up on that observation doesn’t make him shallow.

I don't mind giving the pii for verification.  I have severely curtailed my activities after having a few encounters with $800-$1K per hour providers that were absolutely nothing special.  The providers had good reviews but their performance with me was nothing like what was described in their reviews.  When doing an advanced search in my area I will come up with one or two providers that have a recent review after that the reviews are literally from years ago.  I think there are a lot of "dead" provider accounts on TER.

Whatever decision you make, DO NOT EVER send personal info to a provider! Use references or p411 oks! You might get  burned!!

Why do so many providers think a wife and a divorce always costs the man? I hate to say, but this statement is just as much falling into stereotypes as the young hot white blonde statement. Both are more common, but neither the rule.

 
As a sex worker, I know you’re well aware of women working and bringing money to the bank. And, they get into relationships and marry men that make leas than them. The man can just as easily cost them more to be with, and more in divorce. Not all men are rich and have a lot of money that can be taken. For men who are not rich, an escort can absolutely cost them more than a relationship. And as rates have skyrocketed, this has become more true.

 
Back to the young hot blonde. He’s not wrong. But he is perpetuating the stereotype. But she has a privilege that older and/or providers of different races, body shapes, etc… don’t have. This doesn’t mean they can’t break the barriers. It just means it’s harder and less common.

 
FWIW, he’s just saying what many others are thinking.

This is total horse shit 💩....

but the fact of the matter is that as a rule, younger women will always be preferred and can charge a higher rate

💭 this is not a rule, nor is it a fact.  

Not everyone prefers young & inexperienced providers at a higher rate. 🤥  

Please don't believe everything posted by people who have not been around for decades. If I believed that I would not be successful, nor would I be getting booked & paid in full at the time of booking. It's funny to me because I recall back in 2010 when I required a 50% deposit to book everyone discouraged 🫤 and now look the majority of providers require deposits to book.

When I first started it was you shouldn't charge $500 an hour because you're not white with blonde hair and look at me now. Don't believe the hype. Do you. I have a different mindset. No one has my unique set of expertise. You can never tell any provider what they should charge for their time. You can not compare apples to oranges.  We're all very different.  

Yes it is very shallow to state young, white, blondes can charge higher rates that's bullshit. These are the same people who complain when they pay higher rates with little to no performance 🎭 you're literally paying for looks. If your goal is sleep with barely legal your are not my clientele. My friends don't want to have sex with anyone who is their daughter's age.

We're not the same. No harm no foul, but you're spreading false information because anyone is capable of charging higher rates it doesn't matter if you think they're worth it, or not. There is no substitute for experience.  

I love seeing women of all shapes, hues & sizes charge higher rates!

-- Modified on 6/10/2026 7:45:02 AM

My second marriage was -- by far -- the most expensive sex I have ever had.

I despise using references, and will readily offer my personal info to avoid them. It's a heavily flawed system, and I prefer keeping whom I've seen and plan on seeing private.  

 
As for rates, I'm never surprised when an escort who falls outside the white/blonde/young/thin criteria can command high rates, but I am flummoxed by how often providers with lousy personality traits (the very behaviors ppl complain about on these boards frequently) get rewarded while the cool ones (of equivalent beauty) are often overlooked or even punished for their kindness and generosity.

-- Modified on 6/10/2026 12:46:47 PM

So much happening in this thread.  

 
First... on the "blonde slender white girl under 25" making more comment. The reason this observation exists and gets made constantly, including by providers of color who are living it is because on the surface 1/2 of it is real. It really should just say "slender white women".  This industry is absolutely a microcosm of unchecked beauty standard capitalism. And yes, the closer you are to conventional beauty norms: young, white, and thin, then the wider your potential client pool is. Pretending otherwise doesn't help anyone. BUT, and this is so important, a wider client pool DOES NOT guarantee success, client retention, or that the provider is building something sustainable. I know providers in their late 30s and early 40s, some are white, some not, charging $2,500 to $4,000 for the first hour and completely booked out. And I know conventionally gorgeous 22-year old women who are struggling because they started at the top of their rate range with nothing behind it and have nowhere to go from there except to lower their rate to get clients.  

 
Oh and on the sting operation point, I'm going to push back a little there. The reason that hypothetical ad would get clicks isn't necessarily because of the age or the race. It's because of the low rate and the BBFS offer. Those are the actual conversion drivers for reckless clients and for law enforcement operations alike. And in some places, sting ads use Latina or Asian women (hello, Minnesota). So using that as proof that young white blondes are the most wanted is really just proof that low rates and bareback offers attract the most desperate and least discerning clients regardless of who's in the ad. Those are different things.

 
With respect to age, there's something that happens around 30 to 35 that nobody brought up. Older clients feel like they can actually be seen in public with you without it feeling like they're out with their daughter. And younger clients can't stop thinking, "Mommy".  The audience widens in both directions simultaneously. I've helped mentor younger women and seen the numbers behind the scenes and I promise you the narrative doesn't always hold up the way people think it does. A 21 year old white woman charging $1,200 for the 1st hour getting 250 inquiries a month at a 7% conversion rate is not doing better than a 37 year old charging $1,200 for the 1st hour with a 30% conversion rate with 112 inquiries. The men reaching out to the latter are serious. The volume of inquiries is not the same thing as quality of inquiries.

 
The smartest move, and I will die on this hill, is to start accessible, build your client base, then raise. Every time you raise you're probably going to lose about 25% of your clients and that's okay. You build again. You raise again. You lose another 25%. You build again. Rinse and repeat. It feels counterintuitive but the clients who stay through the raises are the ones worth having and the ones who leave usually come back but the runway is longer and less frequent. The people I know who are charging the most and working the least did not start at $3000/hr. They started at $400/hr and built up to there. And therein lies the difference. So much growth as a provider happens in the middle.  

 
And about the references... same! I've noticed the same shift but I think the reason is more structural. Over the last 18 months I have watched a significant number of providers retire, go inactive, or just disappear. The reference system was never perfect but it's becoming genuinely unreliable in a way that has nothing to do with client behavior and everything to do with natural industry turnover. P411 has the same problem... inactive provider accounts that haven't been cleaned up.

 
I offer five different ways to screen and what I've actually noticed, surprisingly, is that TER users and P411 users will often volunteer real world information without me even asking for it. I think part of that is that I have enough review history and longevity that the profile of someone trying to run a long con for minimal deposits just doesn't hold up. It would be an extraordinary amount of effort for a very small return. That trust gets built over time and I think clients can feel when it's real.

 
Finally, on rates in general... RespectfulRobert laid it out well. For some, this is not their primary income and when that's the case the rate can honestly be whatever makes it worth leaving the house. The rate has to make sense for your actual life and situation, not for someone else's idea of what the market should bear.

-- Modified on 6/10/2026 2:54:04 PM

Here’s some personal thoughts  

1. I don’t accept references, just because one provider says your safe in her eyes doesn’t actually mean that you are  
 1a. I’ve heard lots of times that LE has taken over some provider accounts and doing stings  
 1b. I honestly can’t be bothered to look through emails or texts to find a client so please do not do me for references  
 1c. I honestly now days prefer not have guys IDs on my emails and texts for safety reasons. I prefer guys do have p411, TER , PD or pay for session up front.

2. Me personally my rates have flexibility , kinda based on the city. If I’m in a city that the price of rooms and travel is more I do have to charge my full donation rate. But if I’m in smaller cities I do offer discount rates. I’ve always worked like that it just works for me personally.  
How ever if the guy wants me too jump up and down and stand on my two feet doing crazy tricks I do charge the full amount maybe even more .  
I don’t mind doing all the things but it is exhausting I’m not doing everything on the book then going to see someone afterwards I need time to catch my breath 🤣🤣🤣🤣

 

 
Just my thoughts 💭

Great post Paige! Thank you for sharing your experience.  

 
I agree with you about the age thing and I’ll go you one better. I’m not looking for providers 20+ years younger than me and I’m not even trying to take them out in public lol. For me it’s not about people thinking she looks like my daughter, it’s just who I can relate to, who I’m comfortable with, who I’m attracted to. Basically, ever since girls “stopped having cooties” I’ve been attracted to women approximately my own age. That hasn’t changed much as I’ve aged. So right now that’s 10-15 years younger than me and 5-10 years older. Say 30 to 50-55. I agree with you that women 30-50 or so have a wider audience in general.  

 
I just wish more of them knew it! It seems like a lot of providers in that age range think they’ll only get work if they’re younger, so they lie about their age or just hide it. Makes them hard to find in a search. That’s actually why I love those old-ass sugar nights ads. I can say alright she was claiming 28 years old back in ‘17 and she’s still in the game, she’s probably perfect. lol  

 
Can I ask you to expand on your thoughts regarding references going the way of the dodo? I agree using references was never perfect and that it’s become less reliable and more unstable recently. You said that’s about industry turnover. Is high turnover in this industry anything new though? Do you see it as being significantly higher than a few years ago?

 
My personal experience is that a number of providers have gotten weird about it. Forget about the providers who don’t accept references as screening, that’s not what I’m talking about and I’m not trying to change their minds. I’m talking about scores of providers openly saying they refuse to give them. A lot of others just get weird when asked to be a reference, like they’re jealous or something. Providers have told me stories about a guy reaching out to them and dropping another gal’s name as a reference; she contacts that provider and never gets a response. Meanwhile, the provider in question is telling the guy “oh yeah, I told her you’re great, I don’t know what her problem is.” Obviously she wants him to give up and just keep seeing her.  

 
That’s all very anecdotal, obviously. I’m not saying it explains the industry wide slow collapse of the reference system. I do think it’s a small piece of it. I’m just wondering if you could dive a bit deeper into your comment that it’s related to natural industry turnover? I’m definitely not an expert, but I don’t think of turnover as a new thing in all of this?

As usual, you speak wisdom.

I've had the pleasure of a few ladies who did the rate growth spiral in the time I knew them. I (mostly) stuck with those that went from 500/600 to 700/800. I even followed one up to 900. I hit the silks when a couple of them went to the 1k. Never complained, never asked to be grandfathered; not my thing. Good for them if they can achieve higher ROI.

 
The reference issue is an additional challenge for me. My small handful of regulars are all UTR, I won't give out PII, and I'm unsure of the alternatives.  

 
If this train moves on without me, I'll miss it, but it has been a great ride.

Do you know how hard it is to even get reviews? Maybe 1-5% of people I see review. And then the reviews are not even accurate as I have a basic service and ultra service. I wish I could record the people I see and post or post what they say after. I would have a line out the door and around the block! The ones who do review They complain about the basic because well it’s basic. I won’t please everyone because I don’t offer bare sex and cum in mouth etc or any other dangerous things. If I go to a car wash and select the basic car wash why the heck would I think they are going to throw in extras especially premium ones!  

Prices going up! Have you seen the price of hotels and even places to rent?

Okay, I'll take this one point at a time. But first, Sugar Nights? Completely forgot about them! And that hack made me laugh out loud. "She was claiming 28 in 2017 and she's still in the game" is quite funny.  

 
With respect to people hiding their age, I see both sides of it. Part of it is a safety/security thing. Part of it is marketing. But I'll be honest, even when I was 26 I was marketing as a bit older because the 24-27 bracket actually can see a dip in revenue and then an uptick as they start approaching 30. Once I hit 35, I'm just going to claim it. And as you age, there is fear that you are losing clients for being too old but you are right. Hiding your age makes you harder to find by the exact clients who would most want to see you. It's self defeating. But again, I understand the fear.  

 
I know you said you don't take providers out, but FWIW we both agree that the age factor allows there to be a level of relatability. FWIW, the vast majority of my dates are three hours or longer which means we are going out. And there is something real about being in that age bracket where you can talk about Led Zeppelin, Reaganomics, the Challenger explosion, The Gulf War (didn't live any of this but I was a history major lol), 80s-2000s pop culture, and how things have shifted because you both have lived BEFORE cell phones, the internet, and social media and now with it all. And then pivot to current real estate markets and investment strategy, etc. That range of conversation can exist at 18 to 22 but it's potentially rare.  Y'all will correct me if I'm wrong.

 
With respect to references, yes,  turnover has always existed in this industry. What's different now, in my opinion, is the pace and the concentration of it. The current economic pressure over the last two years has accelerated retirement and/or moving to UTR status. Many providers are going back to school, re-entering Corporate America, have other businesses that make as much if not more with not as much legal risk, etc. Then there are the announcements on Twitter and IG. The slew of inactive provider accounts on P411 when you're checking a client's "Okays" and over 2/3 of their okays are inactive.  

 
And yes, provider jealousy/ gatekeeping references is a real thing. I don't think I'm telling anyone anything they haven't already heard and/or observed. It's one of the reasons I actually tell clients that before they list their references, have they actually spoken to their references and asked to use them. If there is hesitation, that probably tells you what your thoughts are on that whole process.

Glad I could help you laugh! I wasn’t trying to be funny though; so it’s true what they say, sometimes it’s better to be lucky…

 
Just for the record, I don’t go searching the sugar night site, just that a lot of providers have links on their profiles still 😂  

 
Thank you for all the rest of your thoughts, I agree with you. You’re absolutely correct about relatability and all the fun little avenues conversations can take when there’s some shared life experience between the two parties.  

 
Your point about living before smartphones and the internet is a good one. I think that’s a big thing. Personally, trying to carry on with the folks I know who are too young for any of that can be very difficult. I’m not talking about providers, I’m talking about anyone. And I’m not even old yet! This isn’t a fist shaking rant about “All these young whippersnappers are hopeless, the whole generation is useless, we’re all dooooomed!!” I don’t feel that way at all. I’m just saying the gap seems to be so wide, it’s difficult to relate and even understand each other. I know it is frustrating for them too.  

 
I think about this a lot when new people show up around here and comment that this place is really hard to figure out. I’m like yeah, because this is the internet. You think you grew up on the internet but actually you grew up on SM and 175k different apps. Everything you ever do, there’s an app for that. This isn’t that, it’s the actual internet lol.  

 
“Many providers are going back to school, re-entering Corporate America, have other businesses that make as much if not more with not as much legal risk, etc. Then there are the announcements on Twitter and IG.”

 
I’m sure you’re right but that really is a shame. I’ve gotten to know many providers who were in school and/or the corporate world before doing this and they say this makes them feel so much more empowered and confident and independent.  

 
As far as any “announcements” on twitter or the IG, yeah I missed the memo. I don’t have anything to do with any of those spaces, never have. No idea what you’re talking about. I’m sorry 🤷‍♂️  

 
My only other comment is that checking with a reference before giving her name to another lady is common sense! Or I guess I ought to say it should be, you’re better able than I to speak to whether or not it actually is common lol. But I mean c’mon people! I didn’t need to be told that, it’s obvious. Show some upbringing 🤦🏻‍♂️

I'd like to make another personal observation on a major point you made.

The Russian and other Eastern Europeans girls seem to follow the business model that you are suggesting. I have seen about three, all amazing, all priced under a 1000, and all VERY good at their job. Whenever I go on tryst and see an absolute knockout for under a 1000, it is almost always an Eastern European gal. The language and cultural barrier has always been an issue an issue with me but fortunately, they seem to really love fucking more than talking from my limited experience (lol). I see these women getting tons of excellent reviews on here as well. The first one I saw recently increased her rates by a 100. I am sure in another year or two, it will go up again and I know she has repeats and regular customers.  

Now that you mention it, I am slowly seeing fewer accepting P411 only. And this one might be controversial, but I read a year ago on this forum that deposits were going to become standard industry practice and EVERYONE will be asking for one, but only 3/7 women I've seen so far has asked for them, and one was a $50 Uber card which I was more than happy to provide.  For the record, I don't mind paying a deposit up to 25% on a well-reviewed provider. To me, it signals her not likely to be LE as cops will not ask for a deposit because their goal is to arrest you, not take your money, and they want to get you to the sting location as quickly as possible.

Another thing I've observed, and I made a post whining about it, was asking the client to book a hotel for the meeting, or charging a separate "incall fee" where presumably she books a separate room. I am sure you will be expected to pay for her transportation to the hotel as well (for an incall!). Not a fan because regularly using a hotel for one or two hours and then leaving without staying overnight draws unwanted attention from staff. In general, I don't like seeing providers in hotels so there is a bias there.  

I have penciled in time to do an analysis of hiring an escort vs. dating and relationships for guys who just want casual sex. I hope you will read it and provide your thoughts when it goes up. lol