Sorry for starting another thread but that other thread has so many replies that I needed to buy another screen to see the replies on the far right side.    Beyond that, I replied last night but it never made it onto the thread because I used a lady's name.   Funny, others have mentioned the name repeatedly and their posts have made it through moderation with no problem.  Anyway, I think this is a meaningful topic.

For example: she advertises no greek, but has a great time with one guy and decides "for him, why not?" He can't help but brag and all of sudden all of the greed studs are lining up for appointments. Same with discounts and negotiated rates - word gets out and all the misers and bargain-hunters start a-drooling.  

If I offer, and the girl takes $1500 when her website states $2000 for that amount of time, you, as well as many of the ladies who publicly offer their displeasure see that as a $500 loss, or as you put it, "cutting into their margins."

I have stated many times I don't think newbs should negotiate and I personally don't think its wise to negotiate a one or two hour gig, but that's me.

If it's in a review..that's something that gals can dispute (using your Greek example) assuming it's NOT on their profile page.  If the dude is going on his local board saying that he did Greek with HighEndHilda...easy enough for Hilda to have her lap dogs attack the moron for bloviating bullshit, whether it is or not.

I like watching these gals back themselves in a corner  LOL

They are curious about differing ways to play this game.

Women that lower their rates often make more money because they see more clients.  I know if I dropped my rates I would have more business than I care to handle and that is why I keep my prices up.

I couldn't agree more.

I NEVER  negotiate unless I'm buying a cheap car or a used shack.

You're jumping the shark a bit here CockBlock.

Check.

And this also affects the perceived value.  

I have to say that you whiffed on that one.

The OP said:

Every time this comes up, a few ladies will chime in and say that they don't play the haggle game, and every single time your retort is something to the effect of them being either liars or bad businesswomen. My question to you is how can you possibly know that? There's a possibility that they're lying, sure, but isn't it equally possible that you're lying? For all we know, you've paid full price for every date you've ever done. Maybe it's you who's putting on a "dog and pony show" because you can't afford some of the ladies you'd like to see. Hell if I know, but the potential that either side of this debate is misrepresenting the way they do things is equal for both the ladies and the guys.  

I post on this subject (and notice I haven't brought this topic up to start a thread in quite some time) to counter this "I don't negotiate and other girls don't either" bullshit.

Most every small business owner has used that test.  In case you're not sure of how the mirror test works...place a mirror under your nose and if it fogs over...then one would take that person as a client (since they're breathing).

Some links to aspects of "Where are the customers' yachts?"

I didn't like the sucker feeling her screener gave me when he said her overnight rate is usually  
 $ 3500.00 but since she "really " liked me, I would only have to pay $1000.00.
  I called a civilian GF I had taken tent camping in the mountains a few  times, asked if she wanted to go to the beach for the week end,  without mentioning I was borrowing a wealthy friend's yacht to substitute for my usual company in a  tent.
  Without going into details I felt like I hit a home run with my Civilian friend that week end.
          After all is said and done, it's the feeling that counts the most to me.  

Posted By: JackDunphy

So you wouldnt negotiate a new Lexus or a home on the beach?Check.

Want to give a discount or find stomeing else low if she keep her cost down she could pass it on for example doing incall under the local bridge cost less than driving to a outcall or renting a room.

After all, if a guy is seeking a deal on a first time session he has nothing to compare it to.  So whatever the session is like...that's his experience.  Now assume that the guy has seen her a few times, I haven't seen nor heard of anything less than a similar experience pre-negotiated sessions.

Seems most guys here aren't interested in much more than BCD.

Seriously, link me to one post wherein a gal has said that and I will eat my hat because I've seen that said exactly zero times.  

That argument is pretty hard to argue with.  In a way, it's not 'negotiating' either. It's more like a Priceline approach. Here's xxx amount...you want it? It's yours. I see nothing wrong with this thinking.

But I certainly look for value, absolutely.  

If we allowed the men to do it, we would all be making minimum wage and fucking just about anybody for off the clock time to boot!  

Only BSC hookers or johns would do that, I guess.

You have the whole flippin’ kennel and dog park combined.  

My business experience leads them to these questions and I answer their questions.  

I would be happy to explore that loan with you.  Where's the price break at?  Can we discuss LIBOR as well?

There is NO shortage of guys who would never ever in a million years think of asking for a deal.

That posters on this board aren't playing?

I understand why some might haggle, but I could never do so. I personally want both physical AND emotional intimacy from the providers I see; haggling over money would completely undermine the experience I try to achieve.  Plus haggling with a person who is going to share some of their most intimate aspects simply feels wrong to me. She is putting a price on her time, her body and her soul; if you don't like her valuation, then probably best to move on.

But you'll have to come here to collect it.

You're the guy she wants to see.

Posted By: analytic_logic

I understand why some might haggle, but I could never do so. I personally want both physical AND emotional intimacy from the providers I see; haggling over money would completely undermine the experience I try to achieve.  Plus haggling with a person who is going to share some of their most intimate aspects simply feels wrong to me. She is putting a price on her time, her body and her soul; if you don't like her valuation, then probably best to move on.  
   
 However, I have experienced that prices are extremely flexible. I repeat with women that I find interesting, intelligent and attractive, who I genuinely like as human beings, with whom I want to spend my time and from whom I feel that the sentiment is reciprocated.  I see a number of women who, when I arrange a session for 1.5 - 2.0 hours, they will fairly often stay significantly longer, sometimes 3-4 hours beyond what was arranged. I have never asked them to do so, but I take it for the gift that it is. However I certainly don't badger them on subsequent visits if they stay for less time than the previous meeting. I tell them that I have no expectations beyond what we've officially arranged.  It is their choice to stay longer and they may make a different choice each time, and that's perfectly fine with me. They also know that I will not post the specifics on public sites, beyond "not a clockwatcher", as doing so could cause them grief with those who Tobi referred to as "boundary-pushing annoyances".  
   
 But my point here is NOT to brag that I am getting free time. The hobby is so intimate and personal that a providers publicly stated price reflects the local market rate and her price to share herself with a stranger with whom she may have no rapport, find unattractive, whatever.  Some may choose to stick to a set price, based on income needs, her own self-valuation, high demand for her time or some other reason. Others will be flexible, which in my experience includes cases in which they seem to find personal value in spending time with the client. But the key is that it is up to them to decide and not to feel pressured to compromise themselves; that serves no one.    
   
 Lastly and bluntly, maybe if some of you stopped being such overbearing demanding assholes and respected women more, you might get better service.  
   
 Cheers

The providers are selling their looks and talent, but they're charging by their time. That's the case in many other professions, as it is in photography. Customers would try to chew us down on our day rates, but they had no problem paying for the cost of film. So we increased our markup on the cost of film to 800%, and that covered us when we got knocked down on rate. If they burned through thirty or forty sheets of film in a day's shoot, we'd make an extra $600 to $800.  

The difference is I try my best to back my rate up. At $250 all the way up to $500, I did the research and put in the work to make sure that I was already a good deal, no matter my price point. Therefore, I've always been busier than I wanted to be, and have never had to hem and haw over whether I needed to pay rent. I hit the ground running and ready to take my area over, and I was rewarded for it. You can ask around, I've never taken an offer, and I've never begged for business. I work HARD. I have fucked some awful people like they were the king of my friggen universe because that is MY standard to find my gems and tens, and I will be damned if someone tries to belittle my ability, dedication, or the business I have built in such a short time by claiming that I'm lying about being able to do well enough for myself that my world doesn't revolve around it.  

I couldn't help but notice some  ladies and gentlemen here believe haggling is rude.  
 
  To be fair, we should not consider haggling a slander on a man's stature, or respect him any less  for a trait he was  were born with and can't control, like a baby shitting in his diapers.  
   
   I  don't believe haggling is anymore a personal choice than sexual preference.
   Haggling is a way of life  we were born with or not.  

Nice story...I'm sure some of it is true.

Posted By: OhCharlie

The difference is I try my best to back my rate up. At $250 all the way up to $500, I did the research and put in the work to make sure that I was already a good deal, no matter my price point. Therefore, I've always been busier than I wanted to be, and have never had to hem and haw over whether I needed to pay rent. I hit the ground running and ready to take my area over, and I was rewarded for it. You can ask around, I've never taken an offer, and I've never begged for business. I work HARD. I have fucked some awful people like they were the king of my friggen universe because that is MY standard to find my gems and tens, and I will be damned if someone tries to belittle my ability, dedication, or the business I have built in such a short time by claiming that I'm lying about being able to do well enough for myself that my world doesn't revolve around it.  
   
 Because I DO look at this as a business, one that will only thrive if I take care of myself first, I've never had to be one of those girls that gives out OTC time like candy, or takes every Tom, Dick, or Harry that comes my way before begging them to stick around. Because I actually DO take care of my business, I don't have to sweat the "advice" bandied about on this board. I can relax, take care of the people who have taken care of me, and still have time to live a pretty darn fulfilling personal life. Might I make more money if I took every $300 offer that came my way? Sure. But what would that actually do to my business? There's an awful lot of short sightedness being spewed and relied upon on these threads, but I play the long game sweetie, and I don't do anything half assed. That's probably why I rarely get requests for an hour anymore, let alone a $300 one.  
   
 I'm also very frugal. Do you want to know the last time I needed money? The last time I was like "mmm, maybe I'll buy/pay that tomorrow"? My very first day. I pay bills, I reinvest, and I put it away so that I can laugh when these exact threads and arguments about the first of the month come up. What can I say? It gets me off not to be the stereotype, and there are plenty of haters here if I ever need some extra motivation  
   
 I reached the point long ago where I can do this for fun more than the money, and all I can hope is that everyone else can experience the same. Just because you haven't yet doesn't mean no one else can or hasn't at all. Just because I'm not the type of person you surround yourself with doesn't mean I don't exist.  
   
 No need to call me a liar. I know my own life cause I'm the only one living it  
   
 ((Kisses to those that get it))

-- Modified on 1/16/2015 3:37:07 PM

... but I believe every businessperson should have the right to set what she thinks is a fair price for her services.  And if she wants to adopt a "no negotiations" policy, so be it.

Remember how I thought I was gonna puke? Now.... Hahahahaha!

Her exact words: "I know that I am not alone. Many ladies specifically state that rates are non-negotiable"

This is a very easy arrangement. Why do some people try to fuck it up????

But the sad fact is this game attracts way more than its fair share of wack jobs on both sides of the transaction.  Always has, always will.  That tends to make simple things complicated.

Do they have hospitals in Mayberry where you live?

Posted By: quadseasonal

 
 I couldn't help but notice some  ladies and gentlemen here believe haggling is rude.  
   
   To be fair, we should not consider haggling a slander on a man's stature, or respect him any less  for a trait he was  were born with and can't control, like a baby shitting in his diapers.  
     
    I  don't believe haggling is anymore a personal choice than sexual preference.  
    Haggling is a way of life  we were born with or not.  
   
    Perhaps some men learn to haggle from their Bro's, though I haven't read any legitimate scientific studies or seen proof to convince me.    
   We see many Bro's  quite vocal with their opinion on haggling, like they are trying to convince others of different opinion, similar to men constantly vocalizing  their belief, their own sexual preference is the normal one.  
     
  To each their own I like to say, either you are born to haggle or you are satisfied with the posted price.    
   
    In my case I look for the sale price, though  I'm most pleased when finding two for one advertised, to maximize my shopping dollars.  
   .  
 I'm sure many of you  realized long before I posted my thoughts on haggling, there are many men with  DNA impregnated in their brain, reinforcing  their belief, without haggling there is no life.  
   
    There's a word for it............. brain freeze........  

Heeee was such a cutie!

Well, when you get more experience and can put some merit behind your story, then you'll have a more entertaining retort.

Hopefully you are also encouraging her to save a few bucks to get out of this game ASAP.

Go on. We know you will.

I can't believe you even posted on this nonsensical OP.  Damn girl...we beat this topic to death last night already.

What's it like giving advice you clearly haven't followed, using your own logic?  

But I understand the comfort of a narrative. I love a good role play ;-

I respect money...as do most of the people in my world.

Just because you have not personally experienced intimacy in this context, doesn't mean that it's not possible.  The exchange of funds complicates matters and it can be hard to find the ones in whom I am interested and who are themselves interested in engaging with me, but in my experience it is possible. Intimacy does not require a relationship or romance or expectations, just two people willing to share themselves mentally as well as physically.  If you instead choose to emphasize the purely mechanical side of the hobby in your dealings with providers, that's an entirely different path from mine.  

What if some dude offers to pay you for it?

Posted By: OhCharlie

But I understand the comfort of a narrative. I love a good role play  
 

Plants accused me of the same nonsense.

I've got Charlie reduced to posting gifs as retorts.

You know why I like you though? You remind me of that Rihanna quote: "your pussy is way too dry to be riding my dick like this".  

Ok, they have gotten crushed on this worn out topic every night. Happy?

Then my work here is finished  LOL

I know you insist on some sad little guessing game, but unlike you, IDGAF what your personal problems are.  

You won't let her finish that "dick sized thread" post she is prepping for the S&P. LOL

So unless there were no other marital assets...you may have indeed gotten the short(er) end of the stick.  

But have been very upfront about it.
Half the time it's worked out, half the time it hasn't.
But I've never asked a lady about this if she's clearly stated on her site that she doesn't negotiate.

I've already presented your claims to you and asked you to explain them, but I guess it's not happening.  

I've been perfectly logical and have only asked you to defend some of the claims that you've made. That's not "making shit up." Come on meow.  

However I can't see how someone can believe that there is intimacy when you are paying someone for that exact situation.  

I don't believe it has to be ALL OR NOTHING like you said. Afterall you sounds intelligent enough but then again if you don't want to publicly admit it I understand perfectly.  

Quote something I said verbatim and I'll defend it. This can't be THAT difficult. LOL

-- Modified on 1/16/2015 11:03:42 PM

Wait a minute there. So are you saying if she had said "Sorry yacht or canoe or dingy my rate is still as posted $3,500" you would take her up because she's such a principled woman and unbowed by materialistic luxury? Seriously? and so you were offended and butt-hurt that like 99% of the normal human being she dreams and loves to be on a luxury yacht and NOT because you look like Bratt Pitt or George Clooney?

Here is the post that set you off.

Or so I've heard.  

To have to pull the sheets out of my ass when you're done sucking me off. I'll give you an honest kiss and hug on my way out the door.

There's no place like home.

Hey that's me too! I don't haggle either but I do make one offer and on rare occasion would come back with a second (and last) counter-offer if my first one was countered. Like you said it really is a win-win situation if both parties are willing to meet halfway.

Doc, please send me a Green Dot card stat. You can trust me.  You know this.

you keep using the words "circular logic",  you clearly don't understand nuanced rational argumentation if you feel that applies, but perhaps that reflects the black and white world you live in.

-- Modified on 1/17/2015 5:15:46 AM

Any time I've spent more than what I thought something was worth, I ended up regretting it. I've found that if I have to negotiate for my price, I don't need what ever the person is selling.

Please!!!!!!! IMO  George Clooney is the slumped  version of a wimpy Hollywood  sad sack , not a look I would ever hope to trade for, although George has managed to muster a few forced  smiles since he found a lift with stylish  elevator shoes and a gorgeous bride.
  On the other hand,  Brad Pitt looks like a happy, smiling, dashing  man, with a sparkle of ruggedness, in your defense we met half way on our versions of desirable men. .  

Christ Tobi, I even said "just a hunch" and "maybe" and "it's been my "experience" to even further prove I didn't know fact certain what every girl does. Never claimed to either. That was you and plants twisting and distorting what I said.

“I’m an arrogant ass who believes I KNOW that every provider who says she doesn’t negotiate is lying and/or doesn’t understand how the world works” And yet, anyone who can read understands what you mean.

Yes siree you definitely made your point clear as mud... just kiddin'

Woo Hoo  , I had a suspicion  behind your mask you're a  Dear  Abby ultra sensitive guy.
       I do  enjoy your cover up never ending roughshod advice column, "The Disgruntled Man &  ABC's of Women's Business"    
   
   No, we didn't have hospitals in Mayberry when I was born.
  It worked out well for me , I had both a Mom and mid wife I looked up to on day one.
  Was Nurse  Ratched  the duty nurse on your birthday ?  She spank you too hard?  
       
    I'll give you credit, you're  a fun big little man when you're faced with truth.
          I'm  happy to be your huckleberry.
   
    I had internet twenty five  ago, when it was slow dial up and  hard to make connections, similar to  your misogynist attitude causing your constant failures with women.

Posted By: Dr Who revived

Do they have hospitals in Mayberry where you live?  
   
 When did you finally get internet?    
   
 I doubt you've ever left the Mayberry city limits...for if you had you might know that haggling, err negotiation goes on in every city, village and shithole in every country and continent.  
   
 Even in Mayberry    
   
 Hey...take a nice trip to Mexico City...I don't think many of those residents were born in the Middle East.  How about Panama?  Perhaps Moscow?  Try Stockholm.  London and Paris are nice in the summer as well.  Mumbai is heavenly...aside from all those open air markets where all those misguided people work their magic.  The list in nearly endless.  Oh..I can't forget my friends in Viet Nam...sheesh  LOL  
   
 Now didn't the Grand Master ask you to pick up some hoods for tonight?  Better get going.  
   

Posted By: quadseasonal

 
  I couldn't help but notice some  ladies and gentlemen here believe haggling is rude.    
     
    To be fair, we should not consider haggling a slander on a man's stature, or respect him any less  for a trait he was  were born with and can't control, like a baby shitting in his diapers.    
       
     I  don't believe haggling is anymore a personal choice than sexual preference.  
     Haggling is a way of life  we were born with or not.    
     
     Perhaps some men learn to haggle from their Bro's, though I haven't read any legitimate scientific studies or seen proof to convince me.    
    We see many Bro's  quite vocal with their opinion on haggling, like they are trying to convince others of different opinion, similar to men constantly vocalizing  their belief, their own sexual preference is the normal one.    
       
   To each their own I like to say, either you are born to haggle or you are satisfied with the posted price.    
     
     In my case I look for the sale price, though  I'm most pleased when finding two for one advertised, to maximize my shopping dollars.  
    .    
  I'm sure many of you  realized long before I posted my thoughts on haggling, there are many men with  DNA impregnated in their brain, reinforcing  their belief, without haggling there is no life.    
     
     There's a word for it............. brain freeze........  

Everything I've said within this exchange has been completely devoid of emotion.  

Posted By: JackDunphy

Christ Tobi, I even said "just a hunch" and "maybe" and "it's been my "experience" to even further prove I didn't know fact certain what every girl does. Never claimed to either. That was you and plants twisting and distorting what I said.  
   
 Look I can't blame you for trying. I knew what I said and I baited you into finding posts to prove MY point for me and you did so.  
   
 You, plants and a few others here hate this topic and thus you don't argue from a logical position but from a highly emotional one. Never a good thing.  
   
 Normally I wouldn't have even responded to something so obviously factually false but I actually respect you as I have stated before and you and I have had good debates on topics where we at least saw each other's points.  
   
 Enjoy your weekend.