And I know someone's going to get their boxers in a knot about what I'm about to ask, but hey, why not play social anthropologist from time to time...Please understand that what I'm about to ask is intended and worded in the most impersonal, non accusatory light.

The question:

Do you feel that, due to the Hobby, you have a better understanding (however you want to interpret that word), of women, or is your perception about the same as it was before you started hobbying? Or, just for the sake of covering all of the spectrum, are you more jaded due to hobbying? (Interpret 'jaded' as you will)

Discuss:

No boxers in a knot here. Interesting questions.

My sexual experiences prior to the hobby were limited in their diversity. So even in just a few encounters, I've learned a lot. I am starting to learn the wide variation in what women like and dislike. I am finding that the spectrum of sexual appetite is greater than I anticipated (although this could completely be an atypical, self-selected group). Physiology is also marvelously diverse and there is an art to responding to each individual's body and cues.

Aside from the things I am learning about women, I'm also learning about myself. From doing things I hadn't considered before, to the (requested) feedback from a lady or two whose opinions and integrity I trust, there is a whole realm of exploration underway.

Even from a relatively newbie hobbyist, things are most definitely different than before. I wouldn't say jaded, but beginning to be educated. How that education and change in perspectives impacts me is yet to be seen.

here's my take.

note: other than a brief marriage 31 years ago the hobby, interspersed with and sometimes coterminous with quite a few SOs, has been my lifestyle....

Ok -

Having had the opportunity to enjoy the company of a wide variety of women has:

improved my sexual skills and my ability to read and respond to a lady's cues. I remain open to learning something new - as every lady is to an extent unique.

improved my communication skills and confidence with women (or, maybe it was maturity / aging...)
The ladies that know me today find me to be confident and knowing and relaxed.

taught me to be very flexible and open sexually

OTOH

I do not claim to "understand" women at all - I still wind mystified from time to time. And I still try to discuss things "man style" with women sometimes, which often does not work. But I'm content to enjoy women and not psychologize them

Yep, I'm jaded. But in may ways this is a good thing. It takes an awful lot to surprise me, to really turn me on like I used to be when I was younger (maybe some of this is age too...). But I find something to enjoy with every woman that I date. And sex is still very enjoyable. I do feel like I've seen it all before, been there, done that, got the T-shirt, at least with respect to sex acts per se....

But I still enjoy meeting new ladies. I enjoy maintaining LTRs with  a very select few..... my focus has become more on the connection with the lady in question than running through the positions. I have become more process oriented than goal oriented.

Understanding women is not one of my goals. I prefer to try to understand human beings. The hobby has no effect except to help me explore my fantasies with women.

I too have been around the hobby virtually my entire life. I lost my virginity at 14, my first "hobby" experience was at 15. With the exception of a five year marriage I have been single virtually all of my adult life. The hobby just seems natural to me.

I don't know if I am "jaded". I love sex, I am single, sex is not taboo to me. I know the difference between love and sex, and enjoy both.

Like you I make no claims to being able to "understand women", but there is very little in the sex area that I have not experienced, except for those areas that I have no interest in.(compared to many around here I am probably a prude)

My perception has definitely changed but it is as much the maturation process as it is being involved with sex workers.  

My involvement with women in the sex industry-Escorts, street walkers many years ago, strippers and even an occasional web cam lady-have all aided in my understanding not only of a woman's sexuality but also in understanding what motivates them to work in this industry and what helps them to stay sane in the process.  It has also taught me a lot about how to be honest and realistic with myself when dealing with both play four pay and civvie girls.

I don't know to interpret any of those words, understanding or being jaded (whatever that is,an idea or whatever)
I don't care. I have always been confused and I just don't care. But maybe I'm jaded if I knew what that was. Will go look it up and come back.
I don't see why anybody get their boxers in a know over this.
Ok let me go look up jaded...

made dull, apathetic, or cynical by experience or by surfeit

No

I don't want to understand women. I want to do them and there are plenty of them by the hobby or not to do. So, just do it.

All I know now, is that women have the ultimate trump card on men.  You have what we want, and those skilled enough make us pay to get it.  Some of the women I've met through the hobby, are enjoying a lifestyle most of us only fantasize about.

but the learning experiences have been, and still are amazing. As I've said before, until I started in the hobby, my sex life was both amazingly average, and incrediibly ordinary. The ladies I have been fortunate enough to meet over the past three years, are not only different from anything I ever experienced, but so much different from each other. Has my perception changed? Absolutely, and for the better. I loved women before, but now, well, I get to touch them, and I mean that beyond touching them physically. I have met some wonderful ladies, and wouldn't change anything.

And ladies, the sex is out of this world!!!

In the bedroom, I know more about what women like, and what they do not like.   My experience previous to "hobbying" consisted of a single woman, so I had a very limited view on women.

OTOH, since I have been hobbying, I look at every women and wonder what it would take to get them into bed.  Since I have never had a "Civie" experience except with the same one woman, I have never experienced the "thrill of the chase", and the seducing of a woman.   Since it is either my SO, or an escort, I know what I am going to get.

It saddens me that I have never had a woman outside of the hobby show any interest in me in the least bit.  Just once I would love to have a woman want me, but alas that will never happen.  I am simply not someone that women think about in terms of sexual needs or wants.  OTOH if they want someone to fix their computer, then I am who they think about.   I wish I could just interface with them.

I got married to my first real girlfriend at the age of 21, and we have been married for 44 years.  I have really had very little understanding of women (except perhaps my wife), and hobbying has given me an understanding I would never had had.,  I have dealt with lots of different women, and have gotten close to several of them.   I have not been jaded at all; on the contrary, I have learned that while no one is perfect, you can have real friendships with the other sex.

If anything, hobbying has taught me to be much more open in the bedroom. Prior to it, I was quiet as a church mouse and had no ability to vocalize what turned me on with a partner. I would basically mold my behavior to the likes/dislikes of my SO at the time. I'm much more vocal now, and have learned to suggest things that I like in a way that doesn't make me look like a dirty pervert. There are specific providers that helped me along on that path, but I don't want to name any names - being relatively new to the boards. That being said, I thank you, ladies! Great question/topic, Charlotte!

Seeing a provider(women)and being married to a (women)...we all know it's a whole different ballgame!....I'm still pretty wounded,after being married to a total bitch for 30 yrs....I know not all women are like her....I'm just hoping to find a good one,,,,before my time on earth is up!...To answer your ?....I love women,
the ones that don't Bitch,Nag,Gossip,etc,etc,etc!
The Proper Care and Feeding Of Husbands...a book by Dr Laura...pretty much sums it all up of for me!...Her books for Men and Women....should be required reading for all who are in a relationship or are getting married!....I'm sure a lot of people would have to swallow their pride,to be able to read her books with an open mind!

and very interesting questions. I like to think that I at least have a broader, if not better, understanding of women since becoming a hobbyist.

My upbringing definitely laid the foundation for my views/understanding of women and I have tried to stick to what I know during my hobby relationships. I have learned a great deal from some of the great women I have seen but I am not sure I will ever fully understand any of them.

I also enjoy sex more (and am probably better at it) because of the hobby.

For me I think I am more confused about women now that I've enjoyed the hobby. But, I do appreciate the women that provide in a differnt light as before. I've found they are just like anyone else where before hobbying I think I thought of them as being less caring. I now think for the most part, most of the providers are very careing people....just my .02

I don't know how well I understand women,but I do know that my contact with providers has given me a greater respect for women and their skill and power..

When I am with a civvie lover, I try to be a skilled and patient lover, I try to understand and play on her sexuality to please her.

I have been privileged to meet some truly exceptional women who are/were  providers. When I have been with the best of them, I know they are playing my sexuality the way I play the sexuality of my civvie friends.    

I can't speak for the guys, I know I have a better understanding of men since starting in this here entertainment field.  I have learned a great deal about the men I see and also about myself as well.  It's all good.

Wonderful question.

Hobbying has taught me many things but the biggest:

Sex does not equal intimacy or love.

Sure, you can have sex and intimacy. Or, sex and love.  Or sex and love and intimacy.  Or, just sex.

However, these are all mutually exclusive things.

Women are women whether providers or not; and I have gotten to know many fine women fairly well in my thirty-something years of loving them.

I think it is easier to have an escort open up about themselves than a woman in a civie situation as the later is concerned with trying to hook the man in.  Of course, the ultimate way to learn about a woman is to go through divorce, but I won't dwell on that.

Sometimes the process of learning, is becoming aware of what you thought was true but now find  isn't.  In that regard, women are like the cosmos:  mysterious and forever presenting new frontiers to master.

Great topic Charlotte.

probably have come to understand more about the failure of my marriage, and some of the many lesser experiences with women...   insight?  yea to some extent.... also, what has become clear to me, is that for a large portion of my life, I acted a bit inappropriate - too strong when I should have been more approachable... and too weak when strength would have been more appropriate....  

perception - not the same... never will be.

The hobby has given me experiences beyond belief.  I got married right out of college with little experience with women prior to marriage.  

Many of the ladies I have had the pleasure of sharing time with have been nurturing and caring beyond belief.  I think I have improved my skills and understanding of women and their needs as well.

Do I understand women any better?--yes.  Do I really understand women?--probably not.  But, I'm willing to continue learning.

but had not really defined it in that way. I can 't say that I've got it figured out at all. The ladies who know me tend to get annoyed with me  for not being approachable when they want me to be.....  I guess it's a matter of really paying attention to the lady - I do not have that problem in hobby relationships - because I'm there to pay attention to the lady. Hmmm. Well, I have always preferred my relationships a few hours at a time, and there's no way that I could provide that level of attention to my SO considering the amount of time we spend together -

-- Modified on 11/18/2008 3:38:00 PM

Whether I understand women anymore by being in the hobby, I'm not real sure it's not something I've ever really thought about.  

But, the jaded question is a little more clear to me and it's something I have thought about and I do feel being in the hobby has jaded me to an extent.  When a women in the civie world is kind of ignoring me off or doesn't want to go out with me for whatever reason, I tend to not work that hard to try and reel her in because I know I can see an escort thats exponentially hotter than the civie girl.  So my standards in the civie world are a lot higher than they probably should be.  I have a philosophy that the hobby is entertainment, not romance or making love and as long as I can keep the 2 separate, I'll keep hobbying until I find the civie girl for romance.

we have a bit in common. The hobby is my lifestyle - and my social life as well. A couple of my SOs have been providers. I find that it all just feels natural to me.

As far as love, *real* love (if that exists - I'll take your word for it), I've never been there. Infatuation, when I was younger, certainly. A delight in companionship. Even being smitten by someone new now and then. But this is just a combination of delight in discovering something different combined with the newness - arousal. But nothing like the gooey whatever-it-is that people generally call love. Perhaps to a degree this is because I am commitment averse.

Understand women? A myth. We're not evolutionarily equipped to understand 'em. That would ruin the whole deal I imagine.

And there is an awful lot of stuff that people call sex that I find totally uninteresting.

well - when it comes to this topic we seem to be on the same page.

Cheers

Gregory

Just to mention a few here, I have tried many things that I've learned from providers on my wife, and my wife loved them for the most part.  One thing was asking for a BJ from wife-- I did not know it until I asked -- women don't mind doing that.  Also, all women like men being courteous and treating women well.

"jaded"? you mean feeling dull about sex? no, I always search out for the next pretty one.  Life is short, being able to enjoy as many women is a blessing.

Be they a girlfriend, wife or Pro; sex comes only Quid-Pro-Quo.

Pleasure, like respect and civility, are divine!

Do I have a better understanding of women? I will say yes by the mere fact that I have come to understand that one cannot understand women at all.

Is that the same view I held before I started hobbying? Basically, yes.

Am I more jaded (using what I think jaded means in this context)? Reading this I feel that jaded means do I have a lower opinion of women in general because of participation in the hobby. That would be no. In fact quite the opposite. The provider I go see is not only young and beautiful but smart, playful, thoughtful, and considerate.

b-

I had known from age 16 on what I now know about women and sex,  I certainly would have had more fun for more years!

Jack has learned at last that money makes women horney!

" Nothing dries out a womans pussy faster than having to open her own wallet "

Totally agree with your comment: "Understand women? A myth ... we're not equipped ... that would ruin the whole deal ..." Right on, G!

I've had the fortune of great relationships with many different women (SO's, Mistresses, GF's, Providers, Friends, Family, etc) because I simply accept them for who they are and I appreciate them for what makes them unique. I love the nurturers as much as the psycho's, the divas as much as the girls-next-door, the MILF as much as the College Hottie, the classy as much as the naughty, the secure as much as the insecure - it's a "yin and yang" thing for me.

Understand women better? No. Understand myself better? Yes. One must really understand him/herself first ... before they can really understand and appreciate someone else.

Over the years, I've evolved from judging myself based on my proximity or variance to societal norms and standards ... well, to just stop judging. Period. It's my standard now. It's my life. And there is no one that I need to justify myself to.

As Keith Richards said, "It's not about living forever, it's about being able to live with yourself forever."

The coolest thing about the hobby for me is that it takes judgment out of the equation.