To my fellow hobbyist... can you ever go back to a civilian girl. For those that are married, are you able to go back to your wife and enjoy her in bed or is there an elephant forever hanging in the room? I'm newly single so I don't have to worry about this. But family and colleagues will wonder why I chose to stay single. I don't want them to know I've been getting my jollies off seeing providers. Its career suicide. What's a good cover story? Should I get more cats and become Crazy Cat Man? But that could put a damper on my outcalls...

I now realized this hobby has spoiled me. In the past month alone, I've seen several providers of all race, age, and shape. It's a beautiful community. There's so much variety! It's a club for carnal desires where the only entrance requirements are some discretion and an unsealed envelope placed on the nearest table within view. Some providers have talents that would make a nun in a porn video blush. Several of them are beautiful beyond my wildest dreams. I could never bed them in a million years if I tried the traditional way. Now I feel like I  just broke through a hidden barrier. A barrier that was just a construct of a "moral" society. Now that I'm free from that indoctrination, I feel like I see the truth.

I can't look at normal girls the same way again. I can't go on dates without thinking how much more fun I'd have if I spent my time with a provider instead. Civilian girls who I normally would not hesitate to call back, I now ignore. I've been ignoring a lot of girls ever since I started this hobby and it's simply because I'm now used to SO MUCH BETTER.

It's like discovering a cheat code in a video game and not knowing how to play properly, ever again.

For those who can go back to civilian dating life, how do you do it? Is there a trick? Do you ever feel like the same person you were before the hobby? And would you ever let them know about the hobby?

Maybe I should count my blessings that I found this hobby and can participate in it without remorse. Possibly pray for the best case scenario: Find a partner who's willing to hobby with me. (A lot of you ladies have couple rates for a reason!)

Anyways, I'm glad this all exists.

How fucked up would it be to only be able to fuck women you overtly paid to fuck?

I hope I never get to that point as much as I like fucking hookers.

Now if you are asking if I could lower my standards to fuck an "age appropriate" woman who was not up to my standards for appearance, well that is a completely different question, and my answer to that question is a resounding NO!!!

Yes, I am thrilled that there are young, beautiful hookers that will fuck me and make me feel great about life for an hour (or longer) at a time, but does that mean I won't ever fuck another woman that I haven't paid for the privilege? I certainly hope not.

BTW, I have been doing this a LONG time and I don't need any cover story. if anyone asks me why I go months at a time without a girl friend and seem to be quite happy about it, I find no shame in telling those people the truth. if they look down on me, fuck em. I don't need anyone's approval where it comes to how I live my life.

I do agree with your last statement. Yes, I am glad this all exists.

END OF MESSAGE

Just live in the moment and enjoy.

I do agree the thought of civie dating can be hassle as you know you are getting a piece of tail in p4p guaranteed while a civie many times will need work and patience to bed.

But I never close the door to a civie girl. If a good looking, fun girl comes into my private life, to use an expression here...

Who am I to say no? LOL  

Judge each case, and each girl, on a girl by girl basis.  

I never worry about a back story. Some guys go years and years without a civie GF so months is no big deal.

I live my life in the moment and the future will take care of itself.

Just go for the ride my man, like that fkin feather floating around in Forrest Gump. LOL  

"Life is like a box of Godiva's." :

....I still have energy left to chase the wife around the house too

Well of course I'd fuck someone if they're willing to without me paying.  But where's all the free hot girls to fuck? Let me know if you know something I don't. LOL

I hope one day I can get up to your level where I don't give a fuck what people thinks!

Unfortunately for me, there's a lot of games that has to be played first. First dates, second dates, interest sharing, meeting their family. All that boring shit. I'm not 6 ft tall. I don't have blonde hair and blue eyes. I'm not a fashionable dresser. I can't pull girls in bars that easily without some effort. I'm not ugly, but I don't have this thing they call "game". Call it software engineer syndrome. Knowing how to speak fluent computer languages can really dampen your social skills. Believe me, I've tried. For me to get laid, It takes time. For me to even get a chance on the first date, I would have to lower my standards.  My time is worth more to me at this point in my life than dating civilian girls who isn't a sure chance at fucking.  

tl;dr version:

I'd rather be fucking a hooker than dining out at a Michelin star restaurant with a girl who may or may not fuck me that night.

The best of both worlds and money tree.LUCKY Man

I love my independence and my freedom and everything that comes with it,there is not better feeling in life than wake up and do whatever you want to do and chose who you want to be with every day.

For two reasons:

1) she digs hot, young,  fit chicks

2) she doesn't whoremonger with gals that use super high tech photoshopping methods like taking a nail and scratching off their face in her pics.

...with a woman who lives 1500 miles away from me...she knows about my "hobby" and enjoys hearing me recount my adventures...we have agreed to meet up in March for a long weekend of sex and friendship...and maybe see if there's a future for us...

In deference to her I plan on knocking off my P4P time at the end of February and get a full screening...

As far as covering my ass I don't give a shit who knows what I do...I'm single, no kids, and I work in an industry that doesn't care what I do when I'm not at work...even my family knows what I do and just remind me to keep it safe...

and thank God in Heaven for these amazing women...

...you were married to a male and simply bisexual...my apologies for an unenlightened assumption...

But family and colleagues will wonder why I chose to stay single.      Smile, and the whole world will think you're up to something. But seriously, who cares what they think? I tell some family and close friends who I trust that, "I'm not attracted to the women who I can attract". They tell me that I may have to adjust my sights, in other words "settle". Hell no, I've done that, and that didn't work out so well.  

Something that has been very liberating for me, I no longer give a fuck what other people think about me. In the end, does it really matter? Professionally yes, but I don't mix personal and professional life, never have never will.  

Can you ever go back to a civilian girl?      Hell no, why would I want to? What is the upside?

You "get it" man, it's a wonderful life. Have fun.

Nail scratching works to not show face. My device not high end one for adult business. I'm not paying for high end device for adult business.When Im done with adult business smashing and destroying device.....

-- Modified on 1/3/2016 4:58:38 PM

-- Modified on 1/3/2016 5:01:10 PM

END OF MESSAGE

END OF MESSAGE

Your first mistake is telling yourself you can't bed them in a million years in the real world. They are normal people. I honestly believe I could date any of the top 10 in NY Boston or Philly. I might lack a few things that could make me even more successful but I have never been short on confidence.  

I love finding a civilian in the real world who I am compatible with. I don't think there is a purer and better feeling. When I find the multi orgasmic girl who has a heart of gold who gets along with my mother I am done. I came very close once. As great as this world is I am the guy who enjoys playing the dating game on Match and OK Cupid. For every 10 No's I get on those sites I am doing one date with someone on this site which is one of my New Year's resolution more traditional dates less fantasy world. I'm getting a lot of no's because I am aiming for the stars with limited resources. Yes I can lower my standards but I want the best. I'm looking for the best because that is what everyone tells me that I should strive for and that's what I deserve.  

To answer the question am i the same guy in this world and in the real world. My answer is.  

I am the same guy nothing is different with the exception I don't expect to have sex on the first date on a real date. I like to think I am funny good looking and sweet.

That's my thoughts

Acclimation happens on our end, too.  Some of us providers don't wind up having much civvie sex because invoiced banging becomes our way.  Dates in or out of the hobby can result in lackluster sex, but the cash seems to make it more of a hedge bet. The lack of donation in civvie sex means I need the other person to make up for it in sack talent. And, even then, it's hard not to think of the clients who were just as skilled. Or the two-girl session where you got to pick the girl, have fun with her, and get paid for it. (Two-girl sessions rarely mirror the sequences of my actual fantasies, but are far better than winding up with the civvie pillow princess, anti-scissorer, or hottie who won't put her 3 dogs in another room for a damn hour :-0.)

I wouldn't fret too much.  If you are reliant on providers, the industry seems here to stay. If you do wind up falling for a civvie, you'll make it work.

once i realized how much more appreciated i am by men in the hobby,  i cannot go back to dating civie guys

since i am attracted to older guys, it is silly to try to date an older guy when i can have fun with so many and get compensated for my time...
even when i dated a civie recently who was super generous and took good care of me, when he jilted me  it was way too painful and was not worth the fancy Puerto Rico trip he took me on.  

 
yes, discovering the hobby is in a way knowing a cheat code to the game

However, even after playing with all cute older guys i can find...i still want some constant..somebody who i can rely on, somebody to cuddle with every night and take selfies with lol

Why do you consider the women you've dated as normal?  Are you suggesting that the women that you see for P4P aren't normal?

Let's face it, most women are nuts.  Just stick to the P4P women and you know what you're getting.  The ones that don't charge are looking for other stuff.  Come to think of it, so do some of the providers.

This game has been around since the beginning of time.  

just let me know....i have a beautiful all white adult american curl with dog-like personality that I am rehoming and also a couple of curl and highlander kittens  

help you with your cover-up story lo

Yes, that is exactly right.  Excellent post. The hobby just makes sex easy.  

For me, it has changed civvie sex dramatically. In particular, I now look at civvie sex -- perhaps, by the way, the way one is always supposed to look at -- as a loving, intimate encounter, but a give-and-take situation.  It is not unadulterated pleasure, it is an encounter with an equal.  

Hobby sex is just a total relief, fun, getting your needs met.  

So, they can co-exist, but I try not to expect true intimacy from the hobby, just as I try not to expect that "you take care of all of my needs" attitude in the civvie world

And it's a fascinating world---it seems to me a much freer, less constrained place where we can indulge our fantasies creatively without judgement!!

 One provider I've really come to enjoy---(have seen her several times and like her as much for her intelligence and conversation as the great sex) said to me "If it weren't for sexual repression we'd be out of business!!" I laughed like hell at that because she is SO right---if we truly had no inhibitions and hang-ups we wouldn't NEED the "hobby." But social conventions and dogma are slow to change and put up heavy resistance---so I'm just thankful we have this world where we can enjoy so many different kinds of erotic experiences with these sexy women!!  

 Let's face it---the average guy (which includes me) does not have access to this kind of pleasure in the civvie world!! That's the reality!!

Octavia This is not an attack. I'm looking for some honest feedback from you on this.  

Put Pam Anderson in today's world She would have a hell of a lot more fun being with a Mark Cuban who she could relate to who is a very generous guy than an old man dying? I just don't understand the logic behind the older man.

Girl's in general like guys who are old enough to be the father let's use a a 25 year old girl for example is going to have much more in common with someone who is 34 than 48. He is still older whats the attraction to the older man and don't say money I know a few guys in there young 30's who have major bank. There is more to it than just money.  

I can handle rejection what I can't handle is being told that I only date someone old enough to be in a rocker or someone old enough to be the father.  

Octavia has the thought that an older guy isn't going to take you seriously because you are much younger than them ever come into play? I'm not telling you what to date but I think and I have been wrong many times that dating someone closer in age usually brings the most happiness and success.

Blast away.

 

 

it's a good thing I hadn't just sipped my Bourbon, one shouldn't waste good Bourbon.

And I'm below average in looks, so all I'd get is a member of the OTHFB club, or a gold digger, if it weren't for this life.

I am sort of the same way with guys...after being paid well to do this I can't seem to give it away for  free.  

I mean I will actually tally up the price of diners etc till I get my hourly rate and then have sex and I don't feel bad if the guy sucks in bed...I at least got compensated for dealing with it. Now if he is fine, it is a bonus.! Yep,  am ruined and I like it!

END OF MESSAGE

I do prefer to date older men.

When I think of what the things I value in a man (or anybody)...I tend to come up with a list of characteristics that are completely independent of age...

Kindness, positivity, curiosity, intelligence, patience, creativity....

And then some NOT so independent of age....

Maturity, tolerance, acceptance, experience, worldliness, sophistication, learnedness, dependability, rationality...

When I think of what characteristics I'd value in a potential partner...the above come to mind. Things in common? Like what? What do I care if we both like "Star Wars" (I don't, just an example) if he isn't excited about life and learning? Why do I care if we both play the same sport, or graduated college the same year from the same place? Do we really need to have the same core group of friends?  

Sure, we (hopefully) have some common interests, so that we can enjoy things together. Hiking, a type of cuisine, whatever. However, differences can be very exciting, too.

I actually love meeting people who are very different from me, or who are in completely different stages of their lives. It's exhilarating. The older men I've met have lived fascinating lives and have unique perspectives... And, often, they have learned how to treat people - not just women, but people in general - much better.  

Older guys have just...lived longer. They've matured. They've done stuff. They know stuff. Really cool stuff, sometimes. In other words...they're interesting, they're smart. And - if they are good people, their maturity and experience informs the way they treat people. They have become more HUMBLE, respectful, patient, kind. HUMILITY and understanding/compassion are two qualities that, all too often, get hammered into us by life...  

One of the guys I dated had a very prestigious and well-paying job...one of the most desirable jobs in NYC. And then, very suddenly, he lost everything. He was over 40 when that happened, and had no prospects of getting re-hired in his industry. It must have been humiliating and frightening for him. So many men would have been broken, or embittered...or, would have taken their insecurities out on someone they considered lesser (such as, providers). But, he moved on, and began a different chapter late in life...one was not nearly so grand or well-paying, and one that he had never envisioned for himself. But he never complained, or said that he 'deserved' better...he just remained positive and engaged in life, and never judged me (or anybody else) for their status, social standing, wealth, education level, or moral choices...

I learned so much from him and the way he handled himself.

Why argue with Octavia (or anybody), over the rightness of her feelings? Why continually hammer your viewpoint forth (FYI: mature guys tend to grow out of this behavior. They have learned to listen; they accept that there are tons of valid viewpoints, all correct even when they conflict with each other. Mature people care more about UNDERSTANDING and ACCEPTING a different viewpoint - even if they do not agree with it - than the need to be right, look smart, feel validated, or be accepted by "the group"!!!!

it's either for love, or money...

If it's for love, the emotional component trumps the physical, for me. At least at first  

With men I've loved, I've paid for dinners and trips worth more than my hourly fee...I've spent whole days catering to their needs (taking them to see family, staying by their side at functions, etc).  

When I've been on civvie dates w/people I don't really click with, though, I do get that 'Where's my envelope?' type of feeling. Like, I sat here (probably at, like, Ruby Tuesday) for three hours and pretended to be interested while he talked about [insert subject here]. Don't I get...anything??

When I started in the hobby, it initially co-existed with my civilian dating until I figured out that the hobby was a far more cost-effective means of fulfilling my sexual needs, i.e. I can have better sex with hotter women with a lesser expenditure of time, money, and energy than I could from civilian dating. Every now and then, after a bad hobby session or when I felt like I needed something more than sex, I would dabble in civilian dating again and then remember why I had abandoned it as a waste of time (compared to the hobby) and go right back to mongering. This hobby has left me with so much free time to pursue so many other hobbies and interests that I have thus had a more fulfilling and well-rounded life overall than I would have if civilian dating or relationships had taken up the huge chunk of my time, energy, and money that they would have. So, beyond the difference in quality to which the OP alluded (and with which I agree), I would also probably have to sacrifice a lot of that freedom if I returned to civilian dating or relationships.

Great insight voo doo this was what I was looking for. This makes sense to me.  

Thank you,VOO-doo

You summed all the reasons why I also prefer older guys. Certain qualities in men that I am looking for only come with age. Zak, you have your answer.  

The only thing i would like to ad is the physical/sexual part. We all have our sexual preferences. Some guys like BBW, some guys like Asian girls, others like midgets....everybody has their own thing that turns me on the most...i guess average looking all American middle-aged guy is what turns me on the most...do you mind?may i please have a sexual preferences when it comes to looks that are not mainstream? i do not want Tom Brady, I want Tony Soprano or John Carroll Lynch

Actually, Lopaw, I can still remember being new here and getting really fucking confused by yours and Hotplant's posts.

Hookers have always been at least a small part of my life, well ever since the age of 15 at least, but where it used to be 90% non hookers to 10% hookers, or even less, it's now the opposite with over 90% of my sex life coming from hookers and less than 10% coming from non hookers.  

I further have to confess that as I get older my ability to score with non hookers will wane and like you I will either have to lower my standards (aint going to happen) or accept the fact that hookers are going to represent close to 100% of my sex life. Of course this is not an unacceptable outcome for me. I LIKE fucking hookers, I like simply paying for what makes me happy a hell of a lot more than "settling" for some age appropriate woman.

Lol sorry about that!
Too bad there isn't a way to make our genders obvious.  

Most posters just assume that the all the hobbyists here are guys, including the providers.  
Boy are some of them in for a surprise when I show up at their doorstep!  
:

especially at my age (62).  I've shared some experiences with a same age co-worker and his comment was...it must be tough to go back to the minivan once you've driven a Ferrari.  Well, he is right.  While I do enjoy sex with an age appropriate civilian lady, it's never as open and free feeling as with a provider.  I doubt I will ever have a monogamous relationship again and will enjoy the hobby and the "lifestyle" as long as I can.