TER General Board

Re: I agree with your second point . . . .
GaGambler 2947 reads
posted
1 / 45

but there is a reason Kraft hired real lawyers and not you to defend him. As I predicted from the beginning his best defense was to have the illegal videos suppressed and that's exactly what happened today. The warrant was quashed and all "the fruit of the poisoned" tree was thrown out along with the governments case. Without the illegally obtained "sex tapes" I can't imagine the government having much of a case. As I said on the very first day, the other defendants were VERY lucky to have someone like Kraft as a co-defendant.

 
I think all of us can breathe a little easier knowing that Big Brother only has so much reach and that it's now VERY unlikely that anything like this could happen to any of us. Let's celebrate a victory for the good guys today, even if you do hate the Patriots. lol

 
Sorry I didn't include a link, but I am not sure about TER's current position about allowing them. It's very easy to Google however.

herbtcat 6 Reviews 103 reads
posted
2 / 45

With FOSTA/SETSA, I imagine (though I have no personal knowledge) that every municipality with a hard on for Vice arrests is now proposing prostitution stings as anti-trafficking programs, rather than "nuisance reduction."  
.
Flying the "Trafficking Flag" gets them funding, local politician support (because what elected official is going to say no to anti-trafficking efforts?), and when the busts roll in, national media attention.  So a huge "atta boy" to all who got in on the right side of this LE effort.  
.
But as has been pointed out earlier, virtually NONE of the charges filed ever include actual trafficking violations. They all reduce to simple prostitution, whether the defendant fights, or pleads out.  
.
And the preliminary data about the adverse impact of FOSTA/SETSA on SW's is ringing true to the predictions. SW's are much less safe in the post legislation world.

coeur-de-lion 400 Reviews 54 reads
posted
3 / 45

You managed to write an entire post without mentioning Trump.  I didn't know you still had it in you.  Lol

lester_prairie 12 Reviews 65 reads
posted
4 / 45

If rich guys expand the boundaries of freedom and beat back government overreach, yay for rich guys.

36363jensen 4 Reviews 59 reads
posted
5 / 45

So how do you explain the who bribe for college admissions story in the news these days. One would think based on your argument such charges would never even see the light of day.

lester_prairie 12 Reviews 65 reads
posted
6 / 45
JIMBOY 149 Reviews 72 reads
posted
7 / 45

First, Kraft hasn't gotten off yet, as prosecutors are appealing the trial judge's decision to suppress the video. Second, saying Kraft beat the govt (assuming he does) only because he's rich implies that the govt's case was a good one to begin with and didn't involve legal/constitutional violations. Third, implying that Kraft's money has somehow purchased favorable consideration from the judge and/or prosecutors assumes, as lawyers might say, "facts not in evidence."

coeur-de-lion 400 Reviews 69 reads
posted
8 / 45

EVERY day.  THAT would certainly explain a lot.  

coeur-de-lion 400 Reviews 69 reads
posted
9 / 45

whether prostitution is legal or not.  Cuddling is already legal.  Knock yourself out.  

GaGambler 77 reads
posted
10 / 45

I think you have just met one of those people who just can't stand the successes of others. It's so much easier to blame the system and claim victim status than it is to go out and make something of themselves.

 
Kraft had by far the most to lose, and fortunately for him, (and the rest of his co-defendants) he also had the resources to fight back. If this case/s is ultimately thrown out, as it should be, it will be a great day for justice, and not just for the "rich guy" but for all the other guys who weren't hurting a soul when they went out for a little harmless fun. I do suppose the wives of the married guys might disagree, but even then isn't it better that a cheating husband with an "itch" gets it scratched by a professional rather than starting a full blown affair?

 
I do find it amusing and more than a little ironic that included in his list of "rich guys" who beat the system due to their wealth was a black guy who by virtue of his race,  the very same poster has claimed can NEVER get a fair hearing no matter how much money they have.

coeur-de-lion 400 Reviews 62 reads
posted
11 / 45

For rich guys, even if you're seeing a $1000/hr girl, its cheaper in the long run than the typical affair where you set her up in an apartment and pay her living expenses.  Sometimes the price of exclusivity is just too high to justify, even for the rich.  At least Kraft knows how to get value for his money and kudos to him for accepting the same risks as the rest of us. Years ago, when I was starting out in the 80's, some of my co-workers in NYC would spend $150,000 a year on a mistress (that's close to HALF A MILLION in today's dollars), including her rent, living expenses, and allowance to spend as she pleased.  That's way too much to spend on just ONE girl, IMO.  

impposter 49 Reviews 62 reads
posted
12 / 45

Assuming that Kraft prevails in court and doesn't get too badly beaten up by the NFL or MLS, he will be able to afford to combine business and pleasure by hopping a plane to friendlier foreign shores when the urge arises. He can scout the talent at each destination for their football skills, soccer skills, and other skills ... and take a business deduction for the football and soccer portion of his expenses.

Posted By: coeur-de-lion
Re: I  agree with your second point . . . .
For rich guys, even if you're seeing a $1000/hr girl, its cheaper in the long run than the typical affair where you set her up in an apartment and pay her living expenses.  Sometimes the price of exclusivity is just too high to justify, even for the rich.  At least Kraft knows how to get value for his money and kudos to him for accepting the same risks as the rest of us. Years ago, when I was starting out in the 80's, some of my co-workers in NYC would spend $150,000 a year on a mistress (that's close to HALF A MILLION in today's dollars), including her rent, living expenses, and allowance to spend as she pleased.  That's way too much to spend on just ONE girl, IMO.  

GaGambler 75 reads
posted
13 / 45

but I kind of doubt he would have mentioned Epstein if it weren't for his connection to Trump.

coeur-de-lion 400 Reviews 62 reads
posted
14 / 45

any problem at all with rich guys TOFTT.  

GaGambler 84 reads
posted
15 / 45

But the end result is going to be HUGELY beneficial for the entire TER community. So I am with you GO RICH GUY!!! lol

 
and I bet if Kraft were on trial for "snuggling" our resident rich guy hater would be more than happy to reap the benefits of what the rich guy sowed. lol

coeur-de-lion 400 Reviews 59 reads
posted
16 / 45

ask the court for a trial date, so it appears that the videos were their whole case and now they have no chance of getting a conviction.  If I were Kraft, I would demand a speedy trial (constitutional right) and get a 90-day trial date, so the prosecutors have to formally dismiss the case.  Otherwise, he will be in a kind of limbo until the judge dismisses it sua sponte a year from now for lack of prosecution.  There is also a chance the prosecutors will find some other kind of evidence to try him on if they are given enough time. A swift counter-attack is the best option.  

mrfisher 115 Reviews 75 reads
posted
17 / 45

so that the prosecution can appeal the finding that their video is tossed out.

So, this thing is not over yet.

impposter 49 Reviews 70 reads
posted
18 / 45

Based on the news and commentaries I've read so far, I don't think the videos will be allowed back in. If they are, Kraft might have to consider MY suggestion and fight this thing by challenging the prostitution laws themselves ... all the way to SCOTUS, if necessary.

Posted By: mrfisher
Re: Latest news is that the judge will consider extending the trial date....
so that the prosecution can appeal the finding that their video is tossed out.  
   
 So, this thing is not over yet.

coeur-de-lion 400 Reviews 54 reads
posted
19 / 45

should bring a motion on his own to shorten the time for hearing.  Federal appeals typically take at least 6 months from the time of filing until the hearing to allow time for both sides to complete their written briefings after the appellant has designated the record on appeal, but that can be shortened on a successful motion by either side.  

mrfisher 115 Reviews 63 reads
posted
20 / 45

Remember, this is a misdemeanor case, not even a felony, of a state law in Florida.

I think the DA is going for one level up, a sort of local district court, and Kraft's lawyers want to expedite it by going to a court that is one level behind the supreme court level.

This thing looks like it could be kicked around for a while at the state level, and then it could go to a federal court if the issues involve constitutional ones.

If I had to bet, this will be going on for many months, if not years.

GaGambler 75 reads
posted
21 / 45

Krafts lawyers do NOT want it going anywhere, they want it quashed exactly where it is, and that is what they will get unless the video is admitted into evidence. Without the video and with the other "evidence" like the bogus traffic stop already thrown out, the prosecution will have no case to move forward with, and most likely Kraft's attorneys will move that the case be dismissed "with prejudice" and that will be the end of it.

 
I noticed you didn't add your usual disclaimer "still not a lawyer"

mrfisher 115 Reviews 61 reads
posted
22 / 45

I looked for it now and couldn't find it, but if I do I'll link it here (If that is not against the rules since it obviously names a person.)

While you are correct that Kraft's lawyers would love to see the trial come to a head so that the case would collapse without the video evidence, the reality is that the prosecution is appealing the ruling that rejected the video evidence and the longer that appeal draws out they figure it helps their cause.   Kraft's lawyers are attempting to speed up the process of this appeal by insisting that it go immediately to a higher court.

And, if it makes anyone feel better (But it's soooo, 2000-ish)

Still not a lawyer.

mrfisher 115 Reviews 55 reads
posted
23 / 45

This is the only one of about 12 articles on the subject in the last 2-3 days that talks about the complexities of the court system involving the case, for those of you who care about such things.

GaGambler 62 reads
posted
24 / 45

Ok, you were more right than me. Ok, fuck you, I was wrong, but only a little. lol

 
That said, I am no more a lawyer than you, but I am a bit surprised that Kraft's lawyers would want to kick it up the chain so quickly. I suppose their motivation is that they believe, (and I completely concede they know MUCH better than me) that kicking it up to the appellate court will short circuit any potential secondary appeal by the prosecutors if the Judicial Court were to agree with Judge Hanser and end the case once and for all.

 
A side benefit to all the rest of us "if" the appellate court confirms the lower court ruling is that it's highly unlikely that any other LE agency will try to trample our rights by launching similar "stings" any time in the forseeable future.

JIMBOY 149 Reviews 71 reads
posted
25 / 45

Right now, as I understand things, the appellate court has kind of a mishmash of procedural and (potentially) constitutional issues on its plate. If they uphold the trial judge and throw out the warrant and/or video on purely procedural grounds (e.g., lack of proper minimization, etc.), then other LE agencies might still see a path to use the same or similar tactics as long as they avoid the mistakes made by Jupiter PD. OTOH, if the appeals court makes a clear statement of constitutional violations, that would go a long way toward quashing such tactics in the future, and not just in Florida. Fingers crossed for the appeals court to be bold and have the cojones to do the right thing!

GaGambler 44 reads
posted
26 / 45

A city bus. lol

 
I know "my people" are known for their patience, but I don't have anywhere near the patience to explain to this "person" just how damaging a video of him getting a blow job for pay would be for Robert Kraft.  The "old" GaGambler would go on and on about how incredibly fucking stupid that statement and that poster are, but the "new" GaGambler is trying to be "kinder and gentler" lmao

impposter 49 Reviews 78 reads
posted
27 / 45

Aaron Hernandez worked for Kraft as a NE Patriot receiver.  
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aaron_Hernandez
He also "allegedly" murdered some people in cold blood.  He was known to be prone to violence and angry outbursts.  His conviction for the murder of Odin Lloyd was under appeal when he committed suicide in jail. "His conviction for Lloyd's murder was initially vacated under the doctrine of abatement ab initio because Hernandez died during its appeal."
.
Abatement ab initio: a common law legal doctrine that states that the death of a defendant who is appealing a criminal conviction vacates the conviction.
.
Kraft is 77 yo. I wonder if they would seek to extend the application of abatement ab initio to MISDEMEANOR convictions and appeals. Just keep appealing and pushing back the "final" legal determination until Kraft no longer has a need to appeal anything at all.  Any conviction will always be under appeal and Kraft will never be guilty.  
.
Kraft appears to be a healthy guy for 77 yo so that might require planning on 20+ years of long, draw out appeals ... as long as abatement can apply to misdemeanors.

Posted By: mrfisher
Re: I don't think that this is in federal court yet. . .  
Remember, this is a misdemeanor case, not even a felony, of a state law in Florida.  
   
 I think the DA is going for one level up, a sort of local district court, and Kraft's lawyers want to expedite it by going to a court that is one level behind the supreme court level.  
   
 This thing looks like it could be kicked around for a while at the state level, and then it could go to a federal court if the issues involve constitutional ones.  
   
 If I had to bet, this will be going on for many months, if not years.

GaGambler 70 reads
posted
28 / 45

One other thing to keep in mind though. At the least it should confine this type of warrant to "human trafficking" only and since real human trafficking is almost non existent at these store front locations, I can't imagine any such warrants standing up to scrutiny.

 
That said. Your point is well taken and I share your hope that the appellate court will show some balls and "do the right thing"

mrfisher 115 Reviews 80 reads
posted
29 / 45

that a higher court may refuse to hear it because it is beneath their dignity.  On the other hand, the case is very high profile, so for that reason they may decide to get involved.

Judges can be very snobbish about cases.   I knew a lawyer way back in the 1970s who wanted to bring a case* concerning an odometer roll-back charge against a used car dealer as Congress had just past federal legislation specifically outlawing the (then) very common practice.   But the judge tossed the case out brazenly stating that his court had many more important matters to attend to than a case that ought to be in small claims court.

*It would have been the very first such case ever brought to a federal court.

Still not a lawyer, but who knows someday?

coeur-de-lion 400 Reviews 78 reads
posted
30 / 45

Small claims court would encompass the value lost in an odometer rollback.  The maximum amount the small claims court will hear varies from state to state, but mostly falls between $5-10,000.  Unless it was some kind of vintage exotic car worth hundreds of thousands, the rollback awards I have read about usually fall between $500-2500.

lester_prairie 12 Reviews 72 reads
posted
31 / 45

Anti-prostitution laws would prevail at the SCOTUS.  I don't agree with the law, but that is just how it is.  Basically it is accepted as constitutional that the states and feds can regulate commerce.  You can fuck all the girls you want for free (if you can find them) but if you hand them money for sex it becomes commerce.  (This excludes mistress/sugar babes, because the money exchange involves "relationships" and the government would have a hopeless case trying to assert what constitutes a "proper" relationship.)

lester_prairie 12 Reviews 40 reads
posted
32 / 45

Avoiding politics, the Trump "grab em by the pussy" comment was not about assault.  It was a statement that celebrities get extra special treatment from the ladies.  The popularity among women of the 50 Shades of Gray phenomena (the guy was a rich guy in the story) shows the hunger a lot of women have for the fantasy of some high status male demonstrating his desire for her by selecting her out of the crowd and unambiguously signaling sexual intent (in the 50 Shades case, rather rough intent, which the female reading public got all wet about.)

Men initiating sex are always at risk of being accused of assault.    That's why we struggle to interpret signals and hope we got 'em right.  But too much caution and we never get laid.  Being masculine requires taking a bit of risk.

impposter 49 Reviews 48 reads
posted
33 / 45

I disagree with this part:

Posted By: lester_prairie
It was a statement that celebrities get extra special treatment from the ladies. ... a lot of women have for the fantasy of some high status male demonstrating his desire for her ...
When a celeb "grabs 'em by the pussy", it can very much be a matter of fear or despondency that a woman feels about bringing charges against someone much more rich and powerful than she is.  Some people have a reputation for going after anyone who sues them or files charges against them, not just 1x but 10x worse. That's a tactic made into a hard and fast rule by Roy Cohn and his proteges.

lester_prairie 12 Reviews 45 reads
posted
34 / 45

That's why I say there is always risk ... a celebrity gets a lot more positive responses from bold actions than a non-celeb, but not every response is positive.  

If the allegations against Trump are true, he kissed and fondled some.  Whether they were flattered at the time, we will never know.  The allegations came out during a political campaign in which these women could re-evaluate their experiences in terms of political weaponry.  

The reason this isn't political, of course, is that we have a recent spat of liberal icons being accused as well, such as Harvey Weinstein.  And he didn't merely kiss or fondle them, he was shoving his cock down their gullets.  And only today there are reports that there are recordings of MLK jr laughing as a pastor raped someone.

coeur-de-lion 400 Reviews 37 reads
posted
35 / 45

"grabbing them by the pussy" if its a woman you're already having sex with.  Its a two-way street.  (I can't tell you how many times I got grabbed by the dick this weekend.)  Its a tip from Trump that I would be hesitant to try on a girl I just met.  Same with Clinton tip for us males.  Who knew how much more enjoyable a good cigar soaked in pussy juice would taste?  But again, I would never try it on a girl I just met.  

 
I agree there is a certain helplessness women feel when groped by a celebrity like Joe Biden or Donald Trump. On the other hand, I think a lot of men who have been in power positions (either politically as in the case of Biden, or from their wealth in the case of Trump) most of their lives take a little too much for grantee, when it comes to women.  A lot of this is brought on by gold-diggers fawning over them because of their wealth and/or power and so it skews their ability to determine what is proper behavior and what  isn't.

coeur-de-lion 400 Reviews 36 reads
posted
36 / 45

You are not meeting the right kind of women.  Zero percent of the ones I have had sex with before would have a problem with it.  They only get a second date with me if they prove themselves to be playful, sexy, and horny.  These are not nerdy girls, or feminist activists like YOUR wet-dream, AOC, so you probably don't know what I'm talking about.   Someday you'll become a man and maybe understand a little better.  

 
I don't know if your statement about Trump is true, but if it is, maybe that's why she's an ex-wife.  I would not stay with a woman in ANY kind of relationship that didn't have a healthy sex drive of her own, and did not want me sexually as much as I wanted her.  If that was her attitude, then she was just a gold-digger who couldn't keep fooling him for the long term.

coeur-de-lion 400 Reviews 71 reads
posted
37 / 45

the post Jensen called you out on.  

GaGambler 33 reads
posted
38 / 45

Guys who haven't been with a lot of women typically don't understand that a LOT of women can be every bit as sexually aggressive as any man. I remember one girl friend who would sneak up on me while I was cooking, pants me and start sucking my dick while I was juggling three hot pans on the stove. I can remember a dozen times where she'd grab my dick and claim "My dick" so I would feel obligated to grab her pussy and claim "My pussy" I assume there are people even here who would somehow think I did something wrong.

 
Remember though, there are a few different kinds of guys who find their way onto these boards, and one kind of guy is the one who has ZERO sexual experience outside of P4P, these guys don't pay for sex because they "want to" they do it because they "have to" and they simply don't understand that a lot of women LIKE sex and don't want to be treated like some kind of fragile flower. But come on, what do you really expect from someone who has more experience snuggling than fucking? lmao

coeur-de-lion 400 Reviews 32 reads
posted
39 / 45

I enjoy a good cuddle as much as he does, but mine are AFTER the fuck, not instead of.  Lol

lester_prairie 12 Reviews 35 reads
posted
40 / 45

I like nerdy girls ... if they are DTF.

mrfisher 115 Reviews 67 reads
posted
41 / 45

Today's Boston Globe has an update on everyone's favorite NFL team owner:

The case will be heard by a Florida appeals court.   The lower court judge has asked the appeals court to consider 3 questions:

1.  Does Kraft 4th Amendment issues here to argue.   I assume the judge is referring to the claim that the evidence presented to get the "sneak peek" video cameras installed was flawed and fatally so as no due diligence was applied to learn if there was probable cause for the warrant.   (I maintain that this will be the vehicle that gets this before the SCOTUS.)

2.  Did LE apply correct standards to when they would roll the film to the events they viewed in the massage parlor?  The "dropped his boxers" was the standard used, but was that the least invasive?   (I could see a court deciding that that was a reasonable standard.)

3.Did the lower court get it all wrong entirely such that the warrant was OK to begin with?  (This one is very odd.  Why would a judge, once having made a ruling decide to ask if he was right?)

 
To see the article you need a Boston Globe subscription, so you may not find this, but perhaps a wire service will pick it up.

The Globe reporter, John R Ellement seems to actually have a brain.   So refreshing these days.

impposter 49 Reviews 74 reads
posted
42 / 45

Posted By: mrfisher
Re: Meanwhile, back on the ranch...
Or maybe ranch on the back?

-- Modified on 5/30/2019 6:29:09 AM

mrfisher 115 Reviews 67 reads
posted
43 / 45

Now that would be raunch on the back.

If she flips over, I'd use Russian.

GaGambler 44 reads
posted
44 / 45

And I am amazed at the number of guys that according to many providers I know both here and in person that book providers without having any intention of having sex with them, not just the "snugglers" but guys who actually pay women "just to talk" I just find that so fucking funny, because most married men I know would pay for a woman just to STFU. ROFLMFAO

impposter 49 Reviews 79 reads
posted
45 / 45

Posted By: mrfisher
Re: I'd prefer thousand island...
Now that would be raunch on the back.  
If she flips over, I'd use Russian.
Kraft Russian?

Register Now!