I fully expect that there may be costs for certain extras. But when I see an Incall Rate, I assume that rate is inclusive of a location, be it your place, a hotel, or other residence a provider has procured. Occasionally, it’s more than an Outcall rate because the provider has the extra expense of booking a hotel. No issue. But why do some providers list an amount and separately list an additional expense for the hotel? I feel this is misleading. Just increase your incall rate.

All you need to do is add up two numbers how is it that misleading.

How is it misleading if she spells it out clearly beforehand?

Can you give an example of the additional hotel expense? When I tour I obviously stay in a hotel which is added already to my tour rates, so I am not sure what you would mean additional expenses at the hotel? Do you mean a parking fee? I am not sure what other fee that would be charged.

It's listed elsewhere, as opposed in the Incall fee. Most incall fees don't have a fee I need to scroll down to find. I have seen a few that have an asterick or parenthesis to explain the fee is higher due to the hotel cost. That's fine. But the only benefit to not including it in the fee upfront is it now will show up in filtered searches for the lower amount that is not the actual amount. I'm mainly referring to ad sites, not personal websites, since there is no search terms or filtering on personal websites.

On ad sites, there is filtering. Just like on TER. Imagine you search on TER for a certain price range, and the prices are based on her Incall fee. But you then go to her ad or website, and somewhere else it shows an additional fee for booking a hotel. We all know incall means her place, be it her apartment, hotel, or whatnot. It's not like I have a choice to not pay for the additional fee if I want incall. Now imagine in doing your homework, this happens 25 times, and you spent an hour or more doing the research for these 25 pages, only to find they are all outside of your budget. Wouldn't you appreciate it more if the search filter was for the amount you knew you had to pay?

(for a large surface lot away from any kind of retail area!) they wanted to charge me for an early check-in (2 hours).   Late check-out I can sort of see, but early check-in when they are not nearly packed and have plenty of rooms ready?

This has come up before, not too long ago.  

On ad sites, for example Tryst, you have Incall and Outcall rates. So, it would look like this:

weed out the marginal hobbyists.  A guy complaining about extra costs to be passed on that are fully disclosed in the beginning is probably not much of a tipper, either.    

I can see that now and glad you both pointed that out. That has happened to me as well. I am certain some women play games in that area, but I can also see that not many girls know all that much about the filters and how they work. In my experience, newer girls know virtually nothing about them, as they are tools primarily for clients.  
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My guess is that most women are not deliberately being deceptive, but may not know how this issue comes off to clients. Good points, both of you.

I see what you’re saying, I rarely do incall so never ran into this.

I acknowledged some women probably play loose and fast with these things in my post. I guess you missed that.  
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And if you think all the women know all about filters, I give you exhibit A below, with my reply to Scarlett re: the Tryst filters that she didn't know about. Scarlett has an excellent reputation, but being a provider, she would have less reason to know about all the filters than the clients, as she, again, is a provider and I doubt she is looking on ad malls to pay SWs for sex but she will tell us all if I am wrong. lol.  
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I know you must have been burned on many occasions by women as you come off as quite jaded, and maybe I would feel as you do if I had your lived experiences. I just tend to think most women, as I believe most men, are decent and honest. It's the exceptions that make the "news" and stick in our minds. The "man bites dog" thing.

OK, I see what you are saying. This is kind of like in the same vein of the Las Vegas gals that only charge $150, but that is just for them to show up to your room and then everything else is a la carte. Misleading  but I do not think it is against tryst rules. Technically for a tryst ad we post a "base" rate, but what exactly that is or entails is really up to that individual provider.

You’re missing the point. This has zero to do with the money. It has everything to do with that it is not CLEARLY communicated. And 95% of providers don’t do this, so you’re really stretching it if you think the intention is to weed out cheapos.

You make it seem like it's some kind of accidental ignorance.

Touring Providers may have a different rate for each city (NYC, Boston, SF cost more than Tinytown), based on hotel cost and availability. They might even have access to an apartment so their touring fee could have a low option. Even local Providers might offer to host out of their home or a hotel, depending on whether she knows you or not.
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Incall 350 (apartment; her own or borrowed from a friend, IF you've met before)
Incall 500 (hotel 4-star, assuming she has two or more appointments that day to split the room cost)
Incall 600 (hotel 4-star if you are her only appointment that day)  
or
Incall 300 + hotel (to be discussed of determined before the meeting)
You want to meet on the East Side where the hotels are more expensive and she agrees = 300 + 300 = 600.
She mentions that hotels on the West Side are cheaper and suggests 300 + 200 = 500 and you can agree or not.
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I think I do understand your "filter" issue, but I think I also see the Provider's side: she's trying to emphasize that the cost of her services are reasonable and apart from the greedy, expensive hotel fees.

Not a single one of the ads I have seen with hotel fees makes it that complex. I have seen some that have a slightly higher fee in certain cities, like NYC, LA, SF, etc… Those ones never have a separate hotel fee. And they make complete sense.

I have already stated that I am sure some women game the system. But yes, it is obviously in many cases that some women don't know about the filters and how that can appear deceptive even though that is not her intent.  
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If you look at my first post in this thread you can gleam from that that I am against any hidden fees but I am not talking about those as they are clearly deceptive.  
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Some women have a rate chart but clearly state that incall is, say, $200 more for her to get the room. That is not deceptive at all and is in fact explicit. She may show up in the filter as being $500/hr but the added $200 puts her at $700.  
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That is my point about women not fully knowing how the filters work bc they are on the selling side and not the buyers side so they would have no reason to know all things filter or ever have a need to use them. As they gain experience, and maybe as a few close clients will tell them, then they become more experienced with the filters.  
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Stop trying to think that I back bad behavior by women. I never, ever do.

Sheesh....you make it sound like an area car dealership:  "the price posted is what you pay".

You know more about the filters on tryst than I do, but I did comment on this below. For our tryst ad we post a "base" rate, but really up to the provider as to what all is included in that rate. You really can put any amount there so you show up in the basic search but then below we can list our incall, outcall, tour, and online rates, so they can all be different technically. My base rate is my incall rate for one hour which I am assuming most gals do, but technically with tryst it does not have to be.

Wow imposter! Thanks for getting it! We certainly don’t want to charge extra all the time if we can borrow an apt because that is not right. But we don’t want to get screwed either if the hotel costs $300 and we are only charging 300. That means we either hope for another appt and we make nothing . And often times another appt does not manifest no matter hard we try. For me though I like to just book a place for 4-5 days. Some days I’ll make money like yesterday I had 2 that did 1500 sessions. They even wanted more but I had to say no but Sunday I had one for $425 only . Usually by the end of the week it averages out though but I know many ladies are afraid to take that leap and spend the money upfront because even regulars are a toss up these days.

... it's a little suspect in my eyes.  Private business will always push for a larger margin just like many properties will add the "resort" fee simply because everyone else is doing it and you can add another 10-15% on top of the sale while doing nothing to justify it.  Just like the 3% CC fee businesses now add on at the point of sale.  This isn't caused by any new burden to the business or post covid survival, it's just something retailers always wanted to do but previously not allowed too.  Now "everyone is doing it" and again, an additional revenue source w/o additional costs.

What is even your point, that some providers are intentionally deceptive but most of them do it on accident? Either way my point stands, it doesn't matter. Hidden fees are hidden fees regardless of the "intent." Sure most people are decent and honest but when I see something fishy I don't see any reason to give anyone the benefit of the doubt. You can call me jaded all you want and make whatever assumptions you want. I don't really care because at the end of the day it isn't like your words match your actions. You talk a lot about being trustworthy but you are incredibly selective and thorough with your screening. Why are you only seeing reviewed providers or highly reputable ones that are vetted by other reviewers? Why are you messaging other reviewers on here to ask additional questions about providers? Can't you just take the providers word and trust that they would be honest in their ad? GFE means GFE, right? When it comes to deposits, why do you use prepaid debit cards purchased with cash? Is there anything wrong with venmo, zelle, cashapp or paypal? I know prepaid debit cards are more anonymous, do you not trust providers with some personal information? Despite all your talk you seem just as jaded and trusting as the rest of us.

If you are seeing 25 pages like this then it just shows how expensive it gotten to be in this business and if they are booking a hotel ahead of time  then that means they are not getting enough business to do so. So they are back to the you pay for the hotel way of doing things and giving you a choice of where that hotel can be. Just be glad there are still ladies offering services because many are retiring because it’s just not worth it and online services are more lucrative with less overhead.

You don’t know the difference between protecting oneself and being jaded? Honestly? Lol. I have been called a number of names here but never “jaded.” That’s a new one. Lol

If most people, and providers, are good natured, why do you feel the need to protect yourself? The police aren't usually a problem in NYC (prosecutorial discretion). Who or What are you protecting yourself from? You don't see the dissonance here? When you post you act like guys are paranoid or jaded when they question a provider's motive. When you see a provider you do more rigorous background checks than some fortune 500 companies. It seems like you say one thing but do another.

I just don’t think a provider is necessarily and intentionally being deceptive bc she chooses an actual rate she offers for the filter. That rate may be the lowest rate she has but as long as her differing rates are spelled out clearly on her site or ad, it’s a non issue for most of us. We either accept it and further our research into that girl or we bail at that point.  
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Yes it can be frustrating sometimes but I don’t find that in and if itself false advertising. It’s also impossible to get into a woman’s mind as she is doing it as there are so many factors that could enter, as I mentioned previously, like experience in the biz, experience specifically with Tryst, her overall rep etc etc

The obvious answer is that “most” isn’t “all.” When playing in an illegal activity, one would be short sighted not to do any due diligence. I think 95% of women in this line of work are mostly decent and honest.  
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That still leaves 5% who may be dishonest, mentally ill, etc. I do my research to protect myself from the 5%. This is bizarre I have to explain this to you. Shocking, actually.

My point here is simple. You saw filters and built your whole defense around them, arguing that providers have no culpability if they don't know about them..

I NEVER said providers have “no culpability.” Yet again, look at my first post in this thread. What I have said is that some providers don’t know about, or don’t know the ramifications of how the filters affect the guys.  
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You want to believe that anything that even gives the appearance of deception, is proof the girl is acting unprofessionally, and I know for a fact that is not the case in many instances.  
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Yet again, your want is to paint with a very broad brush but any fair person knows that is never fair or accurate.

Once again you're ignoring the point here.

you will understand that when you are going to a hotel she is using for an incall, there is often a surcharge for the room whether it's disclosed up front or not.  If you go to meet a provider with only the exact amount of her donation in your pocket, you (speaking to all here, not you specifically, so no need to overreact) become the cheapo of which you speak.  Experienced hobbyists know that when they are hosting the provider, they pay for the room, but when the provider has set up her incall for a few days in a four- or five-star hotel, we all know to be prepared to pay some portion, if not all, of the room.  If they volunteer the info, great, but if they don't, we should go there being prepared anyway.  Asking in advance how much your share of the room is seems a little tacky to me.  I go prepared with enough cash for whatever contingency might reasonably come up, so there are NO awkward moments that could cast a shadow over the ensuing session.

Um, yeah?

Yeah, that's not it. First of all, I do extensive research into ladies all over the world, though mostly US since not as many outside of the US are reviewed on TER. 25 is just a small fraction of the profiles I review. I do this because finding ladies I'm interested in has become harder. A fair amount of them are ones I am hoping may tour through my area some day.

....at 5% being in the crazy category.  I'd like to think that the higher fee providers are in the safe zone but if you look at anyone who might advertise on Tryst as the pool, you might push that % 2 or 3 times higher.  That said, I do think the majority of providers like to operate on a fair playing field but when stressed or faced with crisis in their lives, things can get a little crazy.    

Obviously I know this lol. Its only shocking because you refuse to see the obvious point. You're kind of a hypocrite. You're making excuses and suggesting we should be giving providers the benefit of the doubt. However when you decide to hire a provider you don't really seem to be giving anyone much benefit of the doubt. You trust them about as much as the rest of us. Either way it doesn't matter what a person says or what is in their head and heart, actions matter. In my experience providers that have a lot of add-ons, hidden fees and deceptive rate structures tend to be poor investments regardless of their intentions.

I have been with over 100 independent providers, so not counting agency repeats, since agencies tend to operate the same way for all of their escorts. I think that qualifies me as experienced..

Despite what he says, Robert acts like that percentage is way higher than 5%. He is very picky, his screening methods are extensive and he sees the best luxury escorts. He isn't screening out 5% of crazies, he is screening out 99% of all providers.  When it comes to hiring providers he leaves no stones unturned looking for potential red flags. When a guy comes to the board and asks about a potential red flag, Robert is dismissive and defensive on behalf of the provider. Meanwhile he is unlikely to actually book any of the providers he defends. Robert wants to be viewed as a kind, respectful client by providers. That is more important to him than giving any sort of useful, practical advice. That is whole point of his white-knight schtick. Robert uses TER for screening. He shares his TER handle to avoid more intensive PI based screening methods. He knows who is reading his posts. I don't blame him, it is smart. You just have to realize who his intended audience is.

Good grief.....
You sound deranged now.

Look at this board newbie thinking he is going to take on the great CDL!!  And you thought I was a troll. LOL  
Popcorn is ready and I am just going to sit back and let the show begin.  
WOOT!!!

I'm not a newbie. I have squared off with CDL before. He doesn't scare me anymore than you do. You all just don't recognize me because I had to change my screen name. And, as much as I would like to be upfront with you all, it's not worth a second attemtp at being estorted.

I stick primarily with the higher fee providers so my sample size is certainly not representative of SWs in general. I certainly cant argue that when someone is stressed, and/or facing a crisis, they act abnormally.  
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I also might be a tad lucky. My "bad" experiences are just a handful of occasions over 15 years of p4p with women who acted unprofessionally, to one degree or another.  
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None of those instances were horrific, but sad in that I could no longer see them afterwards. I have only been threatened by one provider and she was clearly dealing with a mental health crisis at the time. I sweated that out for several days before she relented.

You were being extorted by a TER member? Wow, that's wild!! Did you enter the witness protection program? There are a few Tren de Aragua gang members that post on here, so be careful!!

this is not a screen name you are using, it's an alias with no reviews.  You're allowed to review under an alias.  Just do a search on Respectful Robert.  It's easy to SAY you have seen 100+ providers, but you have no reviews, but who is going to believe that?  The reviews I have under various aliases over the years are not included in the 400 that everyone here knows about because the TER computer considers it a different reviewer because it's not the same name.  How can a review written under an alias be "estorted?"

CDL now you’re questioning my honesty. And for what point? What are your silly arguments trying to gain? You trying to bait me into being stupid?

I'll be honest this is not my experience at all with Independent girls. I see it sometimes with cheaper providers. Maybe hotel fees are more normal with Agency/K-Girls but hotel surcharges are relatively rare and recent with mid to high end independent girls. Most of the time they have an incall rate and and outcall rate. Traditionally outcall was more expensive (risk factor and travel) and also used to have fees tacked on for travel. I have only been asked to pay the rate agreed upon, never been hit up for the cost of the hotel upon arrival. Some providers started charging more for incall and adding hotel fees during and after COVID when hotel rooms became expensive but it is not the norm. I have only paid for the hotel room when I was hosting a provider that was traveling to me or for an overnight.

Neither is it mine. I've never been subject to a hotel surcharge. I've seen ads/websites for some ladies who do specify that there is an additional charge of $xxx for an incall but never saw one of them. If I was going to though, rather than pay one or two hundred extra I'd just look into getting a Dayuse hotel room for significantly less.

Interesting you mention Dayuse. The one time I booked a lady that wanted me to cover the hotel, she used Dayuse and 100% profited from me even more. I know the hotel and typical Dayuse rate is $100-$125. She asked for $250 to cover the hotel. She was upfront about it and the fee wasn’t so hidden. I only did it because I felt she was worth the rate with hotel included. But clearly it was just a ploy to make more money.

Buddy, what kind of providers are you seeing? That is sketchy AF. Do you also get charged $5 for every rubber and $1 for every splash of lube? This is ridiculous upselling even by hooker standards.

As I said from the start, it was never about the money. It was 100% about the communication. She listed outcall only. So her price was assuming the client had a place. Also, her base rate was very reasonable. She is one I had been following and wanted to see. I asked her what it would take to see her at an Incall. I have my reasons for not wanting to book my own hotel. She said $250 extra. I did the math from her base rate and decided she was worth the total. The fact that she profited from the hotel is mute. However, just pointing it out.  

So to my way of thinking, you covered her incall for the day so she can maybe entertain other clients, on your dime?
Wondering if she did take in a a few Joes, wonder what she charged them?
She must have been a bucket list for you because this is something I would never do. But if you're down with it...then rock and roll

And again, I see no difference when someone is paying $800 or more. Which, with the hotel, was less for me. What she does with the rest of her time doesn’t concern me. But if a provider is well below the rate you would normally pay, and asks for an amount to cover the hotel that puts her at your comfortable rate, why even care?

I would agree that the higher fee pros provide a reasonable level of comfort in that they need to maintain there review performance and realize their customer base fully discuss our experiences.  I've had more than a few issues and also a few times where I was in a situation that I felt could have gone either way at some point but worked out.  The common denominator was trying to value shop on backpage.  Fortunately, my fun fund is more robust now so i don't have to worry too much about that.  

Lol.

I think you nailed it!

Victim blaming isn't cool.

Dear PollyAnna,

Yawn. More name calling.

claiming is possibly true, but no one but you knows it.  There is an equal possibility that you are just a lurker here and don't have any reviews anywhere.  There have always been lurkers who come here with a good story about why they have no reviews, but the fact that TER allows reviews under an alias, an alias which you can change every six months if you want, makes it pretty hard to justify having no reviews on a REVIEW SITE.  If you really think your alias is at risk here, perhaps a lower profile on the discussion board is also warranted.  It seems like a contradiction to me.  

You're right. No one but me knows what's true. That's why I said you can choose not to believe me. I'm not offerring up proof, so if that's the choice you, or anyone else makes, not a whole lot I can do to dispute it.

don't call it like you see it.  Lol      There is a very good chance you are 100% correct.  I can't say that I disagree with you, but I try to say it in a more tactful way.  

Concerning further conversation with you, I say:

Ah yes, I'm a "fool" now.

too much meaning to reviews on a site that was created specifically for reviews?  You don't seem to understand the point that having reviews that can be connected to a name (username or alias) gives you more cred on your comments here.  There is no context for your comments, some of which speak to the experiences of a low-volume or no-volume monger and that's why you get pushback even from providers on some of the things you say.   Combining this with hiding behind an alias with no reviews only reinforces that you are probably not the monger you claim to be.  

I understand that TO YOU having reviews gives creed to comments here. But you are the same guy who has claimed numerous times how the person you are here is different than the person you are irl. You have bragged many times about how providers all say you are a great client. But we all know your reputation here is not met with a room full of fist pumping support. You often are involved in combative battles where people, such as me, question you in many ways. We all don't love you, as much as you claim the providers you see do. That's, if that is even true.

This from the guy who brags about spending over a million on providers and thinks it’s actually a brag. The stupidity that falls out of your mouth is enough to make anyone laugh.

Cdl attacks people's character, giving a (false) impression that the more reviews one has the more credible someone is. This is of course bollocks. The only reason why he pushes it is because he himself has a lot of reviews (none recent though hehe) and annnoints himself some credibility authority here.

Blah blah blah  What are you going to copy and past now?   Blah blah blah Blah blah blah Blah blah blah  Don't you see the irony?  Blah blah blah  Blah blah blah  Blah blah blah I always find it amusing   Blah blah blah  Blah blah blah Blah blah blah  When you get a little more experience  Blah blah blah  Blah blah blah  Copy & Paste  Blah blah blah  Blah blah blah Blah blah blah

I'm not going to rehash some of the other points already made here, but will echo some. This sort of practice of listing fees separately happens in plenty of other industries too. How many times have you tried to book a hotel, then get to the checkout page and see a resort fee? How about renting a car and there's a location fee? Or eBay/Amazon where there is the price and then separate shipping fee?

I had a conversation about this with a girl who had her incall rate at 200. Yes usually she would make a little extra from dayuse bookings but not always. Dayuse hotels also charge separate taxes and fees that you don't see until you checkout so that 125 hotel can easily be 175 or more. Also she noted that dayuse isn't always available and when that happens she has to get an actual hotel which would be over 200, like 300 a night. Let's say this happens once every 10 times. So all that extra she had banked for the 9 other appointments would then cover the shortfall for the 10th.

engaging with you anymore?  It's because you are a one-trick pony and only want to talk about mongers looking out for each against the providers and their agencies.  That's why I find it particularly duplicitous for you to be defending an alias with no reviews.  You have touted the value of reviews on TER and if it's any consolation, I have read most of yours and even got some value out of certain ones.   Reviews are the primary source of information here that allow us all to look out for each other as far as preventing those that come after us from wasting their money on bad sessions.  

Just because they do it, doesn't mean we like it. Some you kind of expect. Things looking booking fees, shipping fees, and resort fees are somewhat common. Usually, these are posted right next to/under the price for items. Sometimes, you may need to scroll a little, and TBH the harder it is to find, the more annoying it is. No industry should hide fees.