My wife and I have been married for over 10 years.  We have depth of love, but over the years, the passion seems to have dissapated.  As I am young, healthy and incredibly attracted to women, fantasies of affairs and hobbying have moved to the forefront of my mind.  In my profession, where I travel extensively, the opportunities were there, but I could not get over the hurdle to allow myself to stray.

So the joke was on me, evidently.  My beautiful wife was having an affair with an extremely young male.  The affair was about 5 months and had both an emotional and intensely physical component to it.  While she has not experienced orgasm with me in years, she had no issues with this guy.  She also had more spontaneity and passion with him, as far as I can discern.

We have been in counseling for months.  I realize my work and selfishness played a very large part in her seeking attention outside the relationship.  We also have a child.  These are two strong reasons for me to strive to make this relationship work.  We also share much in common.

The shortcoming is, many months later, the depth of passion I can evoke in her remains fairly basic.  No orgasms.  No spontaneity.  Sex only when I initiate.  I love her but do not experience emotional satisfaction from our intimacy.  It is depressing me.  I labor over leaving her or seeking attention and higher gratification outside of the relationship.  My thought is that perhaps she needs more time to rebuild the relationship that I, in many ways, destroyed.  Yes, she had the affair, but I was not an attentive, caring husband when she strayed.  I hurt her.

So the question I grapple with is whether hobbying can help me obtain the validation, heightened satisfaction and fun that I seek with my own wife but for whatever reason cannot now obtain.  Perhaps it gets better with time, and I have mentally committed to give it a year, but in the meantime I am floundering.  The easy answer is leave her.  The easy choice may be that as well.  But I believe the work may well be worth it, and wonder whether hobbying (not sure I really like that word in this context), may help me in the short-term.

Thoughts?

if you think an option may be the answer to your problem, you'll never know unless you try it. The hobby usually has less drama than an affair, or divorce.

First, I recommend the book "His needs, her needs" for BOTH of you.

I applaud your recognition that failure to meet your wife's emotional needs likely provided the impetus for the affair.

However, she is a grown woman -- and DID have the option of addressing her needs with you rather than cheating. So that much is on her.

You cannot own ALL of this. For this to work, BOTH must make a commitment to make it work!

Second, to bring some passion and spontaneity back into your sex life, *have an affair with your spouse*. You can get some quick tips on this approach here: http://ezinearticles.com/?Have-An-Affair---How-to-Have-an-Affair-with-Your-Spouse!&id=688570

There is only one book on this of which I am aware; and while it is written from an Orthodox Jewish perspective, I think the ideas and principles elucidated transcend religion: Kosher Adultery: Seduce and Sin with your Spouse.

Third, I do not recommend hobbying in this case. It can create a few unanticipated hurdles.

For one thing, if you are using the hobby to meet your needs, in that satiated state it will reduce your drive to approach and solve underlying issues at home.

OBVIOUSLY, your wife wants and enjoys passionate sex. Equally obviously, she's not getting it from you. If you don't push this forward because you are satiated elsewhere, you can definitely expect a repeat performance.

For another, in these sorts of situations, trust is paramount. Obviously, cheating diminishes trust.

Finally, hot sex is an emotional need. While you have shown a very enlightened mindset in acknowledging your failure to meet your wife's emotional needs as contributing to her decision to be unfaithful; you should expect her to apply a double standard.

That is, because she doesn't see your need for hot sex as being as important to you as her needs are to her (or at least thinks it *shouldn't* be as important to you), she will be NOWHERE NEAR as enlightened and understanding of any infidelity on your part. You can bet your ass she won't be accepting blame.

Summary:

1. Both of you read His Needs, Her Needs
2. get your hands on Kosher Adultery
3. Stay in therapy but don't be afraid to switch therapists if this one isn't really helping. (Many so-called marriage therapists are closet feminazis who will try to shove you into an impossible role that your spouse will actually find unattractive.)
4. Don't take all the blame on yourself. Your wife is an autonomous being.
5. Skip adultery so long as there is reasonable hope of a resolution to the issue.

Make a plan...stash money...and get the hell out!!!

So counseling has planted the seed that somehow YOU had something to do with her putting another dick inside her? Seriously?!? Sorry...that has more bullshit in it than some of the long-winded posts here.
Was the dick covered? Does young buck "have" something? Does she? Now, do you?

There's no salvaging a female like this (yes, I intentionally did not use the word woman..as she isn't one).

Your child will be fine. Single Dads CAN do a wonderful job if they give it the attention it deserves. Trust me. Just follow the rules and don't EVER, under ANY circumstances, speak ill of the "mother" or let the child know that she's a whore.

The one thing about life that is an absolute truth is that no matter what you're going through now...there WILL come a day when you look back and wonder how it seemed like the end of the world or why you got so twisted out of shape about it. You will survive and your child will be fine.

Move on. Take care of you...take care of your child. Let the cheating whore get a job, fend for herself, and find out what the real world is like.

Just sayin'

While most of us look at this as a "hobby" there is a real world component to it, obviously you've hit on it and you're right that calling it a "hobby" doesn't seem appropriate.

There are several ways to look at "pay 4 play"...if you are considering escorts as a way to satisfy you sexually while you work on your marriage and hope you and your SO find your passion again then it seems like a reasonable approach provided the financial commitment doesn't put a further strain on the relationship.  

On the other hand...if you are looking for validation, forget it...what kind of validation can you get from paying for sex?  Heightened satisfaction?  I suppose (see above) and fun?  Well...it is fun without question but I'm not certain that having fun 1 hour at a time is going to do anything to impact your relationship.

To the more pressing issue, salvaging your marriage, the tables were turned in a previous relationship of mine.  While there wasn't any infidelity going on my ex- was a bit like you, kept trying to find a way to work it out but surely divorce was an option low on the list.  We tried everything including therapy, date nights, romantic vacations, religious retreats, you name it.  She started to come around but by that time I was absolutely done (like you wife).  I couldn't identify one thing but I was done and ready to move on.  We divorced a short while later and in retrospect after 15 years it was the right choice.  I'm not sure how we went from happy newlyweds to a divorced couple but it happened.

No amount of escorts would have helped mend that fence....if you want to see a provider, go ahead and have fun...but don't do it under the guise of helping you save your marriage.

I don't see it as making any sense for this guy to believe he is directly responsible for his wife's behavior.

Either she is a grown woman and his moral equal, or not.

One thing that frosts my ass is the way so-called marriage counselors so often figure out a way of letting the woman have her cake and eat it too. You can basically summarize it as "Man always bad, woman always good."

Bullshit.

Look over to the left of the screen.

I would be very interested in her take on your situation.

One thing that I would like to amplify that was already mentioned:

Do not look at the hobby (I don't like the word either but until a better one comes up, that's the one for now.) to provide you with validation.  This is an aesthetic experience.  If you have lacking in your emotional or moral constitution before you hobbby, you will have same afterwards.  Hobbying is not a form of psychotherapy.

Kinda harsh calling the wife a whore.  One, that is one of my favorite kind of persons, two, he was considering stepping out himself.  

If they could have an open relationship, that could be one way out.  Otherwise, an amicable divorce, with the advantage of the settlement to him, like more custody/child support seems the best outcome.  She stepped out on him, so he's got the upper hand in divorce negotiation.  He should stay clean until the divorce is final.

That...and the entertainment factor.

....given freely by the DirtyDaego! Think a Swiss or Cayman bank account & then  file for divorce for adultery,  pain & suffering, custody of the kid, & child support. She can have ‘em weekends so you can fuck & golf!

Also, ask for your $ back for marriage counseling, sue for taking sides & blaming you for her fucking some kid!!!!

PS

You owe the Daego the best liquor of his choice!

Good points and if she did it once, it's only a matter of time before she goes back.  It gets easier to justify in her mind every time.  

Face it, chemistry IS a part of a relationship and without it, this is what you get.  You both deserve better.

If you cannot reconcile the "open marriage" that your wife is experiencing, then its time to call a halt to the marriage. Sometimes we mate with people that we don't connect with sexually. It happens! As for the hobby, looking for validation, real intimacy is fool's gold. Come here for paid sex and nothing more. If relationships are your thing, move toward that as you wind down the marriage. Even when you have so much in common with her, she values the sex she gets elsewhere. Relationships are more about having the same values, even when they appear to be superficial. Can you live with that? I don't think so.

Move on. You only live once. Time will sort things out. Take care of yourself and child and she will be soon forgotten. There are alot of nice ladies out there that are great to be with.

Never ask anyone about your marriage....esp if they are not married, not happily married, and have never dealt with a wife who stepped out.

Being in a long term relationship takes WORK. You cannot just have rings, a certificate, and share a house and think that is going to take care of itself. She cheated, and you are seriously considering cheating as a means of affirming your very bruised ego. I get that....and she is going to have to deal with a very very very crushed man. No one would be flamming you if you decided to cheat or leave her. This is not ALL your fault, it was her responsibility to come to you and tell you flat out...hey I have needs....and you needed to act on that as a clear warning that you needed to step up your game. However, you needed to maintain the fires at home. Flowers, date night, taking out the trash, cooking, and dating her may sound really stupid...but it is CRUCIAL for women to feel appreciated when it comes to the smallest dumbest shit in the world....hey it is dumb to some men...but it means more than I can tell you when we are flirted with by our LONG TERM SO'S.

It may seem like a plausible solution to an already complicated situation....however....it's not going to fix anything except that bulge you have in your shorts.....and you will be out of a few hundred bucks.

You can certainly file for divorce, and that may take care of your ego, but it will mean a serious financial hit for the both of you. You can also become a world class well established hobbyist...again you will be broke messing around with providers...and heaven help you if your wife finds out.....yup she cheated...but you would be caught running around with whores....or you can do the hardest thing you have ever done in your life....which is embrace "divorce is not an option".....

I am sure if she caught you cheating you would be in a whole other mind set right now....and that is fine....

I hope this helped some.......

Even though I am married.

I would also like to add...........

I have never and will never believe in monogamy. It it total hogwash and is unattainable. I don't think anyone is supposed to only have sex with one person for the rest of their lives. Everyone and I mean EVERYONE CHEATS. Some never get caught...BUT EVERYONE CHEATS.

I am all for happily married swingers!!!!!!

What you are missing is that he is not her cup of tea, sexually speaking. You cannot piss up a rope dear. Sometimes, we don't connect in the ways that floats the other's boat. This is the case here. Whether he does it or not, she values that she's getting fucked in a way that he wasn't able to do. That does not make him a lesser man; it makes his situation more common that many people think. People often live lives of quiet sexual desperation. Did he contribute to her seeking sex elsewhere because he stopped paying attention to her, likely. But he she never reached orgasm with him and found it with a lover. She's hooked on phonics now. He could fuck her everyday of the week and she's still thinking about Mr. X.

For the fifteen plus glorious years after my blessed divorce, I manage not to put myself into situations where there is anyone that could call my polyamorous ways "cheating" lol

....the fuck'n trash!!!!  You gotta be kidding me!
That is really stupid.....move on, quickly, set up  those off shore accounts tomorrow befor the holiday weekend, & don't look back!

I think you're right Radcow. He does not do it for her. I wonder if he ever did and why did she marry him if that was the case? Or did she "pretend" he did and then got sick of it? Either way...look what has happened.

I cannot get over how many people marry when the sex is mediocre, the wife or husband don't do this or that and then either party steps out to get what is truly needed or sit there and bitch about what the wife or husband don't/won't do sexually. Odds on if they don't do it before marriage, they probably won't start after.

What pisses me off the most is the women who are "x" before marriage and turn into "y" after...and "y" is not good. But I digress...

Bottom line, she has found a man who gives it to her good. If she is not that attracted or there was never the sort of passion she was responding to with her lover, I doubt you can't manufacture that...at least I don't think so.

Good luck with your situation. Maybe hobbying ( I don't like that term either), might help your ego and place a band-aid over a large, gaping wound, but you have bigger problems than what appear immediate.

And this amount of venom coming from a guy who hangs on a board where 80% of the males (can't use men...blah blah blah)cheat on their wives. How come you're not railing on every dude here who uses "I don't get a blowjob at home so I have to hobby" line?

They have wives with children who are probably lacking from the money spent on pussy? How do you justify that? Oh yeah, I am playing the devils advocate because I don't really care but you came out ready to tar and feather a lady who from the tone of this post is doing what most men on here do...get better sex than at home.

And if she had any sense she would be getting payed for it and then the moniker "whore" would be justified. Any woman in my mind who does not get payed is stupid...

Actually Radcow I agree with you....and I think you misunderstood what I said....but I cannot fault you for that...

Imma woman you are a man we think differently....its not a debate to change gender thinking...that is mission IMPOSSIBLE....I can't really explain it in man terms bc Im not a man....I hope you can kinda sorta understand my woman talk?

I can say all day long: Hey take the garbage out, give her a massage, buy her flowers, and give her a break by taking the kiddies out for a few hours every week...but men may not be able to look at those options and add them up to: stronger intimate connection...that may NEVER ADD UP IN SOME GUYS BRAINS....y'all probably think we are all insane and hormonal.

To us those little things count....when they are not there any longer....we nag....then we give up and either cheat or completely shut down.

HOWEVER.....you are right......for MOST women great LOVE MAKING is all mental...and he may not be able to give her a mind fuck anymore....years of marriage can do that....

But come onnnnnn don't you think he can RE-THINK his A Game...she can spruce up herself and get to the root of the problem...?? and they can patch this up and move on?

She may not have Mr. X on her mind all the time.

and I'm not saying she is right....she is dead wrong.....but I think this is fixable.

"But he she never reached orgasm with him...." He said: "While she has not experienced orgasm with me in years."

Any physiological state once obtained can be revisited, with the right coaching. And, even if not obtained, can be. A good sex therapist can do wonders with a couple.

It is all good.

Now you tell me?!? Sheesh!

they aren't going to care what becomes of your marriage. Nor do i. you simply have to decide whether your wife is worth fighting for. stop blaming yourself for her infidelity. women for ages have bitched about men not being motivated for material purposes. then when we do find the balls to GO FOR IT they continue to bitch about something else. don't blame yourself for a dis-connected wife. the hobby WILL NOT do anything other than cloud over,moreso,the need for further work at home.

Get the hell out of here with this issue. these people will leave you emotionally spent and morally bankrupt.

this here is an enabler cursing at a man who feeds her. tell me i'm fucking dead already. this shit is so jerry springer.

Hey Jackie boy, how are you after our last tryst? You were fabulous...you even took a shower.  Let me break it down for you darlin', I was not cursing the OP...just the hypocritical verbiage from DD.

Dudes on here, not unlike yourself, telling him to leave his cheating wife...yet sweet-pea, cheating husbands are filling my bank account....i guess it's alright if the guys step out for some great sex but not if the lady does it? That was my point but I guess you missed it...never mind....your talents lay elsewhere.

At the risk of sounding all fucking sensitive and mangina like, the OP did accept his share of responsibility for his wife's straying on him. Whether he can fix his marriage or not (I vote the marriage is dead) is not really the point.

We make excuses all day long around here for guys stepping out on their wives, this just kind of reminds me of the little adage about geese and ganders. lol

Her story I bet is not much different than the male version. "I wasn't getting any at home", I mean WTF? If we can endorse guys fucking around because of a lack of sex at home, what the fuck is the difference?

-- Modified on 7/1/2010 4:14:44 PM

you must be aware of his board opinions to call him a hypocrit in this case. he has in the past shared his disdain of cheaters. his only fault here would be to go get some before an edict of divorce. SYK i have never cheated on anyone before. i also do not condone it. save your sanctimony for a worthy contestant.

i'm still trying to get the dragging labia out of my head.i reserve my talents for civie relationships. pro's get angry sex.

I agree. It was overstated, but "in years" is like saying never to a woman or have you no experience in this realm? For as much as I endorse couples looking for help to seek it, I think this train has been gone awhile. While I am generally optimistic about such matters, his wife continues to get it on with her boy toy. This can't help matters when she has confessed to her misdeeds. Had she stopped and took a timeout to seek help maybe your position would be tenable? As I understand it, she continues. This bodes well for them? I think not.

Yes, nurturing is vital to a healthy sexual relationship. We are on the same page there. I am sorry to say, when a woman in a marriage strays, its more likely that she has psychologically "checked out." Few marriages make it back from that.

You're WAY off base...more than you know....but it's ok. It's not your fault. You probably just haven't been here long enough.

My views on cheating...by anyone...are very well known by some here. They're probably the ones who follow me around and post all sorts of loving things under an alias.
Feel free (if you have the time) to search my posts. If you do...you'll apologize for your characterization of my "hypocritical verbiage"...or at least know how wrong you are.
Fact is that I'm single. Cheated on one girlfriend, one time, and that was over 20 years ago. If I'm dating in the civvie world...I stop the "hobby" completely. I live my life by my rules and other people live by theirs. Doesn't mean that I have to like theirs...or they have to like mine.

Everyone has to make their own choices and everyone has their own opinions...no one more valid than the next.
A guy posed a situation...I responded...just like many others.

And just because she's not getting paid doesn't mean she's not a "whore" (my definition) LOL

I do think marital counseling can be of great help, if done properly, not only for saving marriages, but helping each person really come to grips as to the real reason the marriage is no longer working for one or both of them; thus making the separation, often, more amicable. So I don't think we're really in disagreement about the state of their relationship.

who not only couldn't make time for his wife, but when you did, you SUCKED at it!  Now she decides to step out and find someone who gives a shit about making time for her, and give her a good fucking!  So then like some mammby pammby milque toast you go spend a fortune on counselling.  Foe what?  So the counsellor can tell you he shit you already know?   Meanwhile, right after te counselling session, she goes out and gets laid again!  Don't sit and agonize that it is a younger guy. It doesn't matter.  Older or younger she was looking to replace what you were to damn busy for, and bad at!
Now, everyone told you to get out of this relationship, so DO IT!  But not because she cheated, but because YOU are a complete waste of oxygen, which is evidenced by the fact that you bring a problem like this to this board! You are not fit to take up any woman's time!  You'll probably have a bunch of ONE TIME dates in the hobby when the providers see what a dud you are!

Now go away, Far away!  Maybe you can fnd a lonely, wrinkled up old grandmother in Tibet, wh does not have too much energy for you, and the two of you can live out your days herding swine, and eating porrige! You deserve that much!

The biggest place where you and I disagree is with "Any woman in my mind who does not get payed is stupid..."

Some women cannot be paid with money. They can only be "paid" with merit. And these women are far from stupid.

But I think Diego has a reasonable perspective, too.

As for myself; I believe the OP should be concentrating on fixing his marriage rather than hobbying. I don't think his wife should automatically be kicked to the curb, but that the underlying causation should be addressed if at all possible.


-- Modified on 7/1/2010 7:14:24 PM

True and very good insight by the way. I do think that if we were hearing from his wife and she was at her honest best, we'd be getting a whole different point of view and one he would find very eye-opening though no doubt more painful than he feels even today. I don't think hobbying will help him even in the short term. He would not be in for play (healthiest position), but for sport or more likely a grudge fuck. I think its wrong to bring your life with you to give you motivation for a session, rather it should be the opposite. It should about meeting fantasies, getting away from the stresses of your real life, and just having fun with a willing stranger.

Wasn't accusing you of cheating...but thanks for your history anyway. I took something from your post and commented on it. Thought it was an interesting forum (hooker/john board)for you to come out swinging on cheaters.

You don't cheat...except for that one time...good for you. Just about everyone on here does...OK so what. I stand by what I said. have an enjoyable evening.

I don't care about his board rep..I was responding to a post and will stand by it. No sanctimony here...to post something like that on a board where nearly everyone cheats just seemed sanctimonious on the posters part. My opinion and perception.

Angry sex huh...you're a pussycat Shitt. You like to think you reserve the tough, rough stuff for us ladies but you're all hot air. You're quite the softee.

You got my point...DD and Schitt..well it went right over their heads.

Doesn't her side of the story, even through the understandable bias of the OP, sound just like many if not most of the married guys here?

Lets see, an uncaring spouse, to busy for sex, unable to "ring her bell", unable to move past her transgressions etc etc.

Frankly I don't think the OP will ever move past this and fix his marriage, he will constantly be reminding himself of his own inadequacies that got him in this position to begin with, and even if he can get to the point where he and his wife can have mutually satifying sex, the first time she doens't cum like a porn star, all of his insecurities are going to rise to the surface. That is, if they ever get back to that place in the first place, which I doubt.

Don't get me wrong, I am not endorsing what she did, but her story is just like the ones we hear here every day from the male perspective.

BTW I, like DD am single, I never cheated on my wife while we were married, nor do I cheat when in committed relationships. That is just my personal choice and I don't claim to be anyone else's moral compass

Be easy on the man ...

Whatever got him to the situation is past history.  Sometimes trying to fix the past is not possible.  I think only he himself would know what to do next: if he feels making some more efforts to bring back his lovely wife he used to know is worthwhile, he would do it; if not, he is here at the right place -- men should appreciate the availability of a commercially accessible market for women -- women do not even have such a choice.

Hobbying is not the same thing as relationship.  However, for someone who had gone through life this much, everything should be clear by now: whatever, life is short, live happy.  Don't cry like a teenager being dumped by the perfect girlfriend.  

I am well aware that you didn't accuse me of anything. I'm quite aware of what you said. You, however, cannot claim the same.
Fortunately, reading comprehension isn't a big part of your occupational requirements.

I was merely replying to your uninformed "comment" and appealing to the intellect I believed you to have. You have shown the light brightly on how wrong I was to cling to such false belief. As I like to think I learn from my mistakes...I won't be making that one again.


Thanks for that...and have a wonderful evening as well.

We'll go with that then

What's the name of that river in Egypt again?

I agree with everything John said. Don't start hobbying as a way of "validation", from what I've heard from others who have done this, it doesn't make them feel any better about themselves, and doesn't help the situation if you truly want to make amends with her. Two wrongs DON'T make a right.. just my .02 cents

Honey you deserve soo much better than what you have. The truth is, you thought about cheating and didn't but your wife did.  You have more character than she does. Go find yourself a better woman

Like I said..you got what I was saying and didn't take it as an affront to how you operate in said situation. Some people got all riled up and missed the bus completely.

Hobbying will do nothing toward salvaging your marriage. You'll just make things worse.

I think he should invite his wife to post here, and let's get both sides of the story. lol

Somehow the OP found his way here, I doubt he was just idly thinking about cheating on his wife, as he said himself the "joke was on him"