would you use your ATF who gives you extra loving and care and OTC time as a reference to see another provider in the same city that you don't visit that often??or do you think it makes more sense to use some other providers who had cold-cut business transaction and nothing more?

Of course it's about the fresh meat for him, and it should be just about the money for you. All of that extra otc time and tlc is time you could be spending figuring how to attract clients that don't need all of that to see you consistently and to pay you well.

point taken

Would you want your favorite client to recommend you to other potential clients via the back channel?

Octavia,  

....sure friendships (and occasionally love) can form, especially from long term arrangements. We are all only human, after all. But in the long run it has to stay business. Having a thick skin and trying not to take things personally is the only way to survive.  

...my lady friends for references. That's why I belong to Date-check.  

Men and by this I mean  ALL MEN  love strange pussy.  They don't like pain in the ass pussy blockers though.  So I  concur with the alias.  Be a good girl and give him a reference.  

Please, take care of yourself and your business.  From this side of the country, it appears that you are young, eager, gorgeous, and delight in a broad range of activities.  And you are underpriced.  Look at Boston's top ten; you are underpriced.  Look at the Los Angeles top ten, their donations are at least double what yours are.  You can make more money in less time and enjoy life more.  Btw, I would ask my ATF for a reference.  Hey, I didn't meet her while fondling a rosary and taking vows of chastity and I will be back to see her.  She hasn't lost my business.  She has sex with other people and I have sex with other women; that's the hobby.  Be safe and consider a tour to sunny, warm San Diego.  Sign me up for an extended date with you.  I can't get anything done in 1 hour.  Yum!

I understand that you want to get closer to your clients, but at the end of the day they move on and see whoever they want. We may have regulars, but yes, the ugly truth is they see us as fresh meat they want to experience.  
Please, value your time more. Giving away OTC time doesn't make them stay forever, and only disadvantages you. Whoever tells you to do anything for them for free is manipulating you.  
Being a companion is a profession, you don't have to be cold and "business-like" to properly run a business. Good clients know these boundaries; if a man wants affection for free, there's always Tinder and OkCupid.

I use my regular as a reference. It's business and everything is above board, which is why he's doing that. It sounds like you are going beyond the usual client/provider relationship and you need to speak up. As clients we are so bombarded with rules that we will never speak up first even if we really like a provider so you have to. I have met providers who were ok with their BF's seeing other providers, but I've also met providers who were not ok with it at all. Speak up if it bothers you. I'm sure he's just trying to be a good client and isn't trying to upset you. Good luck.

Few like to admit that something from this industry has caused pain (even to ourselves), but it's far better than being delusional.  We all know it's a business arrangement and we say it constantly, yet contradict that daily with things like OTC, GFE, steamy/flirty/friendly emails, image obsession, jealousy, vindictiveness, and talking in this GD board. We may not act on impulses, but anyone claiming they've never had any emotional investment in the hobby is full of shit.  

a great relationship with someone who claims to have feelings for you and expects you to walk away from the hobby because of the feelings (mutual regard aside) then they decide they won't see you anymore because you won't leave.  
I've had a great many genuine friendships and romances form in this hobby. Occasionally the ones who left on good terms keep in touch, but the freebie guilters, to the left, to the left.  

There is no place for jealously in this endeavor - on either end. That being said, just because a client wants to see another provider does not devalue the experience you and he had. Anyone who goes comparing each experience to the last just isn't doing this right, and, whether you are a client or provider, comparing is only going to limit your pleasure and feel good in the moment.

What are you looking for?  

Octavia It is your business and your life run it and live it the way it makes you happy. If you like this guy as a friend, and you like being with him then do it. If you ever feel that he is taking advantage of you on the otc time then kick him to the side.

If you want to treat him royally and give him OTC, what the fuck is wrong with that?  He might absolutely adore you and believe you are the best playtime he is ever going to get but since you see multiple guys per week what's wrong with him seeing others and using you as a reference.    Particularly, since he knows you will give him an A+.  Don't listen to Humpty-Dumpty and others who tell everyone how to act and feel.

octavia you know i luvs you darlin, but atf only means the chemistry between you 2 is extra extra special and hot, it doesn't mean monogamy.

are you really disheartened when your clients see other providers?  gosh i don't know what to say to make that any easier for you.  i can't let myself get all bent out of shape by thinking about my favorite ladies bumping uglies with some of the guys on ter i know, cuz those guys are just old and ugly, lol, just like me!  

One of the very first ladies I met in this hobby is still a regular for me, and she will be forever.   Part of the reason is due to her attitude and behavior re references and beyond.  This lady is a pro and a very smart business person.  

tung of fun is correct, octavia you are underpriced imo.  your pix are so hot and i have pm'd you letting you know how much i love to see you on a tour, so if you go to san diego let me know i'll drive down and see you.

good definition of atf

You should write a book on provider behavior.  Do this crap billow out to your therapist or do you just enchant us here with your nonsense.

but he keeps coming back to me at the end of the day. No hard feelings I sleep around I would expect nothing less from him its called the hobby after all.

OTC is the curse of all curses, especially if you really like and admire a client. As far as I'm concerned, if someone likes me THAT much to spend more time with me, he will take care of me even more, without me even having to ask. Why should you, who are "so special" to this guy, be the "cheap date"? Why not be the one he dumps the most investment into if he likes you so much? Kind of like "Want to know if a hooker really likes you? Stop paying her."  

I'm sure he asks you to recommend him so that you communicate with the provider, getting enough of a feel for who she is so you can imagine what the two of them will be doing. It's a way of stimulating you. It'll be even more exciting the next time he sees you.

It's a true bummer to not have a pile of cash for all of that OTC, which cock-blocked other opportunities, but you know.

She sounds verrrrrryy familiar   just  wink and  nod lol

I think really, before you can enforce policies with how you want to deal with extras and time, validating your gut feeling, and your feelings in general, really helps you explain it to yourself, so you can communicate it properly to others.

My friend used to see a provider about a year ago and she was new to the business.  He was one of the first guys to do a review for her and so she knew his handle and she would watch to see how many and what type of women he was seeing.  She would get upset with him when she would see knew reviews from him on TER for other providers.  I told him that it was not a good idea to share his handle with her.

Doubt it - totally different geography.  Good to hear there are others like her.

Tons of reviews say, "She looked so hot, but she wasn't into it." And if you want a transparent time with a woman who is truly into you, you have to take the "good" with the "bummers".

what your point is? or what are you trying to get to? while there's some exception like anything else in life you already said the OBVIOUS about the hobby: $ for providers and fresh meat for mongers.

well, cuz for one thing i don't think she was talking about me, so i can't take it as a compliment.

I rarely stray from my ATF, but yes I use her as a reference. Who would know me better? I know she is fucking more men than I want think about but I still crave her company. Why should she get butt hurt if I see another hooker?

thank you,girl

Posted By: erinbradford

I understand that you want to get closer to your clients, but at the end of the day they move on and see whoever they want. We may have regulars, but yes, the ugly truth is they see us as fresh meat they want to experience.  
 Please, value your time more. Giving away OTC time doesn't make them stay forever, and only disadvantages you. Whoever tells you to do anything for them for free is manipulating you.  
 Being a companion is a profession, you don't have to be cold and "business-like" to properly run a business. Good clients know these boundaries; if a man wants affection for free, there's always Tinder and OkCupid.

She could benefit if she isn't giving him OTC. Sometimes we are someone's "ATF" because we're giving them free time.  

establish a real rapport with your clients.  The difficulty lies in being able to know when that rapport is real.  Just as many providers do a rather convincing job of leading some of their clients into believing they enjoyed a session.........when in fact they might not have.........some hobbyists may be equally skillful in this area.

giving advice ... not that I disagree, but I actually do  
... but that's what this board is all about. Equal time.

many dangers on our end of getting too attached, being too trusting.  I think it's wise for us as hobbyists to be able to maintain enough emotional distance that we don't run the risk of getting rinsed.

we have girls here who are priced more than me with good rankings and comparable looks,then they post specials because they are not getting enough business at their raised prices

amazing post

Posted By: Courtney.Ova

OTC is the curse of all curses, especially if you really like and admire a client. As far as I'm concerned, if someone likes me THAT much to spend more time with me, he will take care of me even more, without me even having to ask. Why should you, who are "so special" to this guy, be the "cheap date"? Why not be the one he dumps the most investment into if he likes you so much? Kind of like "Want to know if a hooker really likes you? Stop paying her."  
   
 How about, "Want to know if a Customer really likes you? Charge him." Why be second financially when he calls you first emotionally? The emotional support is by far THE most challenging part of this business, in my opinion. WHY is that part free for so many of us?  
   
 Then there's security vs dollars. If someone is supporting me on a monthly basis with XXX amount, guaranteed ($5 grand at the first of the month, where I can take the month off if I really wanted to) I'd still even put a cap on the amount of time. After all, I'm still building my future.  
   
 I have a few clients that I just drool over. But that boundary I call the "green fence" (Financial support, and not seeing me as a cheap date) - this is your rate for this long or that long - and that's our agreement for this allotted amount of time. Rates I choose that I will be happy with when they go back home to their wives, kids, or ask for references from other women in the industry, while I'm preparing my heart to not see them for a while, and re-focusing/compartmentalizing to guard my heart.  
   
 Hell, if he's supporting my future, fuck it - I'll handle the pain while I live my comfortable life, and have a safety net, partially provided by him.  
   
 OTC with this guy is money lost with other opportunities. Arrangements are security, (def don't do arrangements cheap - I've done that - ouch. Very bad idea.) Money is him investing in you, your business, and your future, and it's his contribution or his inheritance that he is giving to you, so when he ups and leaves, he left you something.  
   
 And that's why I hate OTC. God I was miserable when I did that shit all the time back in the day. Felt so used, it sucked.  
   
   
 **edited**  I forgot to mention, the girl has nothing to do with it obviously, and I'd definitely be happy to give her a good referral. I'm glad other ladies support me in that, and feel good doing the same. But I can see where that would kind of jab you a bit. I never tell guys not to see other girls. In fact, I encourage it.  
   
 Been there, done that sister. If you didn't have feelings, you wouldn't be as great at what you do. And that's one huge reason I don't give out OTC.  

-- Modified on 2/11/2016 7:43:07 PM

Heck, my ATF came down with the flu once, so called a friends, recommended me, and set up the date as our date just wasn't going to happen.  She chose well by the way.

....and I am one of them.
Many of us have careers that require us to be cognizant of our working issues long after we leave the building. Yes it is very stressful at times but also necessary. Would I ever consider quitting? Never. What I do is too important to too many people, and I decided long ago that the stress of after hours carry-over far outweigh the need of my services

Point being, if that's some dude's answer to a girl having feelings in a line where she is putting her mouth on his most private regions, where his insides go into her mouth and she swallows them, all while he is also putting his mouth on her nether regions... and she has feelings about it? God forbid a sex worker have any feelings, right?

Maybe I'm the exception to the rule, but I don't view the providers I see as a piece of meat or a cum receptacle.  I understand very well that in this business, the providers are going to develop a certain emotional attachment to at least some of their clients, and I don't take that lightly.  Also, because I am recently divorced, and have no girlfriends IRL at the moment, my ATF and the other providers I see are my girlfriends...and I don't care if you're an ATF, a FWB, a girlfriend, or a wife; I treat the women in my life like princesses.  I tell my ATF that I love her all the time, and she says the same...and proves it with my grandfathered rates and OTC time.  It's very minimal OTC, mostly running an hour and a half on one-hour dates and the occasional lovey-dovey phone call, but it's there.  She knows that I don't have a lot of money, and she also knows that if I did have a lot of money, I'd spend a hell of a lot on her.  So she does what she can for me, without screwing herself in the process.

I resent the fact that you equate wealth with class.  I know you will defend yourself by pointing out that you said "maybe".  I'd say maybe not.
---later

Octavia, I think you should listen to the ladies and protect yourself, but I also think you’re right that it’s not unreasonable to expect a guy to understand that once you reach a certain level it’s not business as usual.

I do not understand why you think OTC means that a client has to stay committed.  If I asked for a reference and and I found out the person did not give one or gave a bad one in order to keep me going back to her I would not see her again.  If you want to attach strings to the OTC you should communicate it to the client; however, I would find it hypocritical for you to want him to commit when you clearly do not.  If you want to do extra for repeat clients or clients you really like to try tp get them to repeat more, by all means go ahead, but if you get controlling and possessive it would drive me away.  

Obviously, I can't speak for her (I caught your edit), but maybe it’s more about discretion than commitment. Or consideration. Any of the ladies I, um, progressed with knew I was still screwing half the Western world unless I told them otherwise. And if I’d asked any of the ladies for a reference, I think one or two might have been like, “Ooo, tell me about her,” but I think the more common reaction would have been “Are you serious.”

For Olivia's San Diego visit, let's invite the SD phenom for a "fourYum"