to actually date.  As in serious relationships.

There are very few exceptions to every rule, and same applies here.  It is hypothetically possible that a girl working as escort can meet a man worth dating outside of this world and that he will be OK with her job.  Just like it is hypothetically possible to win NY Lotto.

Chances of successful serious relationship with someone an escort meets as a client are even more remote.

The "dorky, middle-age accountant or lawyer" trying to date his ATF is either married or simply in it for some free pussy.  Something a lot of girls here found the hard way.

There is third possibility - he is so in love with fantasy that as soon as he gets the real woman he is disillusioned and runs back to hobby.

Like I said, there are exceptions, but in most cases escorting and dating a man worth dating are mutually exclusive.

Are you speaking from experience? Sure sounds like it.

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has a damn thing to do with escorts, per se. I think it is just as likely in the "civvie" world. I kind of get that from what DDD says, as well.

I'd rather not dwell on it.. I'll just be myself and be open in my approach to others, let the cards fall where they may. How can you truly enjoy the richness of life if you shut out your own or others' feelings? A closed mind, a closed heart is a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Part of the enjoyment of this hobby (for me) is a willingness to be "at risk" with a woman.. no pretense and no agenda, open to my own shortcomings and hers, finding things we have in common and using that as a stepping stone to learn about and appreciate our differences.  

Mastering our emotions and denying them are two totally different things. I'll choose mastering them every single time

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I respect the power of their libido.

I may not fall in love with a "john", but under different circumstance, i will genuinely care and offer my body and companionship in the absolute manner desired; flirtatious, loving, sensual... etc

But why do WE still fall in love, knowing very well that before you, somebody was right there and vise versa, before me, somebody was right there..  
 

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Took the words right out of my mouth.

I don't belive that you have to be a bodybuilder to have a beautiful woman's love.
The guys I work with look like cartoon characters! Their wives are beautiful!

Just because you look like Mr. Magoo doesn't mean you can't marry a Jessica Rabbit.

Why wince tho? I don't understand, this is the business of companionship despite everyone caught up on ya know that 'other' thing LOL. This business is just as emotional as any other business out there, just no one likes to talk about it...it's "taboooooooo".  

I've stated before numerously, everyone is human here, business or no business....and quite honestly there is no other business on the planet that gets more intimate, more quickly. How could it not warrant emotions for any man or woman involved if something could be there......that's a ridiculous statement to say that it couldn't. Ridiculous. And scary if it really didn't. Come on Blue, you're more in tune than that.  

Everyone wants to feel needed, loved, cared for, wanted, desired, appreciated, respected blah blah blah.....that's human nature and what makes most of us tick, does it not?  

I just don't understand why it's such a big deal for guys to fall for 'women' of the hobby. We are not just escorts, we are not 'things', we are living and breathing beautiful women with minds, with hearts, just with a different approach to life and love perhaps and unattainable in a way that some of you would like...and so you fall, perhaps it's either because she is great at her business or she's just being herself. No matter what the case, guys have a hard time wrapping their brain around the fact that she is and met you here in the business, and it will always, always have to remain just that...business.

In my short existence here, that's been the problem...guys don't want it to be business if it gets to that point nor understand it to be...but it HAS to be. So just have fun whether you fall or not and go for the ride...if it makes you feel good inside and out then who really cares. Life should be lived day by day anyway, not 10 years down the road IMHO.

You are most likely correct, but that's not always the case. I am not a young, good looking, biker type, yet I have had many "real" LTR's with ladies in this business. What I do have that most guys here seem to be lacking though, is a spine.

So many guys try to "buy love" and while sex is easy to buy, love is a different story. Being a doormat and an ATM to a woman is not going to make her fall in love with you. Women only fall in love with a "man" not a doormat. That holds true for hookers as well as women in other professions.

In my experience, the only way to find out if a provider's feelings are genuine is to take the money out of the equation.  Otherwise you will never know if she cares for you, or just your money.

because first and foremost, at our very core, we are human beings. We are all capable of love, and when it is real, we are able to accept one another without judgement. Love is deeper than sex, intimacy is not simply a physical act.

emotionally intellectually and physically AND you are everything they want in a mate emotionally intellectually and physically.

How often that happens?

Jess loves Mr Magoo because he's hung like a horse has a ton of cash from sellin all those animal pelts and he's blind to all her flaws !!!!

and I am not sure if the trade off is really worth it, in my case at least.

I've also had relationships with active providers and was able to compartmentalize the sex she had with clients, and what we had together, but at least in the case of the last provider I dated, she was very good at making sure I ALWAYS knew that I was the center of her world and that the sex with clients was simply work. FWIW I met her as a client, but after about our third time together she refused to take a single penny from me, other that the usual BF/GF buying things for each other of course.

I will confess that as I get older instead of wanting to find that "special" person as one would expect, I do find myself thinking "could I really only fuck one person for the rest of my life???"  I really can't imagine that to be perfectly honest.

Yeah yeah yeah, you all think we only date losers who beat us and live on our couch.

Guess what guys? So does everyone else in the world. Stop stereotyping us as a group for something ALL people can fall for.  

From my experience, more girls date normal guys than huge jerks, just like everyone else does. Not only are you wrong in telling people to compare themselves to this creep before asking if an escort would fall for them, but it's incredibly insulting as well.

Do you honestly think we would put up with the stuff that we do at the office, and then turn around and actively look for an asshole? Helllllll no. Besides all the bullshit at work, we get shit on by ex-friends, family, society, and our clients. The LAST thing that the majority of us wants is some useless asshole to come home to.  

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and sees a speck moving on the sidewalk below and he'll think:  "She's CUTE."  That pretty much sums it up.  

Background (beating a dead horse; don't read this it will bore you):

Humans crave sex.

Human crave affection.

Sometimes one or both partners give or receive affection along with sex, or imagine that affection was involved.

Hobbyists hobby for a spectrum of reasons ranging from highly focused on sex at one pole to highly focused on need for affection at the other pole.

Providers (reportedly) provide overwhelmingly for income.  Being human and all, and female to boot, they may add some degree of affection instinctively, or because they are touched by a particular soul, or because to maintain their own self esteem and sanity in the context of our larger society they feel a need to combine a bit of affection with the sex in order to rationalize their job.

Providers also might have the ability to reify themselves while working, i.e. become just an object that is performing certain actions divorced from any conscious emotions.  Might be an excellent way to get through the day, or might overlap into civvie life and become a destructive trait.  AhdunnoAhaintashrink.

Any hobbyist who falls in love with a provider has lost perspective, dangerously so, and is a threat to himself, to the provider, and to the rest of us

I assume we all want to feel special to someone, and hope that the same doesn't apply to the masses, especially in this hobby. As humans are we capable of pure monogamy?
 

is that they become less like a provider and more like your ex.

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And any guy that believes any different is completely delusional. My ATF made me feel like I was her friend, and to a certain extent I was. But after the allotted time that fantasy was over. The true skill of a good provider isa lady that can make a middle aged guy like me feel like she's my girlfriend for 2-3 hours, being nasty and nice in the same time frame. And then it's over until next time. I saw a provider in the lobby of a hotel once, I didn't go bother her, when we have a date and she's with me I have her attention, any other time I'm just another guy. Why can't more hobbyists separate fantasy and reality?

No doubt we are, Zoe. I think monogamy breaks down when we are monogamous and yet, feel alone. IMO, being "alone" is a genetic need, whereas "monogamy" is a cultural one. Alone is a more powerful drive. I think monogamy can help us to not be alone, but relying upon one person exclusively to fulfill all of our needs and to not be alone simply puts too much pressure on the other, and perhaps dooms an otherwise good relationship.

…all the time because I treat them like brothers. They either keep looking at their phones and say "gotcha'" at my jokes, or fall in love and stalk. I just want to laugh and shoot the shit. If I REALLY like someone, I get all shy and can't talk straight, lol.

Just so you guys know.

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Before my first trip to Bkk the final advice from a friend who had been there was "dude, do not fall in love" my answer was "yeah, yeah , yeah, I understand" well I guess I didnt. Got there was fucking my brains out with many different girls, no problem until I saw her, Nicky. I fell head over heels, she stayed with me for 2wks, toured Thailand together, very romantic very sexual. I was in fucking  love. The time came when I had to leave, tears flowed the good byes were hard. She was the fucking one I knew it. Got home couldnt get her off my mind, constant thoughts of her 24/7. So after a month I decieded that I had to go back and see the love of my life, remember "she was the one" Surprise trip back' I was going to surprise her, sweep her off her feet and continue our relationship, didnt want to live without her. Landed in Bkk got to my hotel cleaned up got a taxi told the driver to take me to the place I knew she would be. Got out of taxi walked up the steps and met one of her friends and asked "wheres Nicky?" she pointed to the back near the dance floor and I walked back, remember she was going to see me and everything we shared before was going to be rekindled and we were going to live happily ever after, I knew she was just as crazy for me as I was for her. Walked across the floor heading to the back looking at all the tables for her. There she was just as beautiful or more than when I left her only problem she had her tongue down some russians throat and the russian had his hands all up her dress and legs. She saw me standing there like a deer in head lights came over to me and said, "I with customer now" Dont worry when I got my composure back I grabbed 2 of her friends out of the bar and took them back to my hotel for the best grudge fucking I ever had! lol. moral of story (2) dont fall in love in Thailand and you can take the woman out of the bar (or business) but you cant take the business out of the woman. I've been back many times and one time I was walking down the street with a new girl, more beautiful then Nicky and came upon Nicky and she seen me with the new girl, and Nicky said "I go with you" and I said to Nicky "sorry, I with new customer now"

running a business. If she had ANY decency, she would have been nasty & cold when you hired her those two weeks so you wouldn't have to fly back to Thailand for a surprise.  Her lack of professionalism is appalling and unfortunately so common.

It describes football as both a game to be loved and a business. In the end Its a business, numbers on the board...money in the pocket ......

I didnt show anybody anything except myself, again "dont fall in love in Thailand and dont fall in love with a whore" Sorry I had to repeat it, I understand some people have learning disabilities and are slow. But thats ok, just let me know if you need me to repeat anything again or write slower

I dated two clients back in the 2008-2010 period (when I was new). Then a 'civvie' guy 2011-2012. The first was a complete bastard but def not abusive. NONE were beefy. None were uneducated.

I don't identify with your generalizations...I don't even think they ARE generalizations. You may not mean to be doing this, but you are really just espousing some very un-inspired and unprofound (or maybe profound? depends on your usage of the word) class snobbery...you're just basically echoing the stereotypes of providers as uneducated and trashy (because like attracts like).

The FIRST guy I dated was a 'bad boy', but he was more of a preppy little trust fund kid/40-year-old degenerate cokehead. He was shorter than me and looked like a toad. He only got into my pants because he was romantic, charming, and manipulative...and I was young enough and stupid enough to be taken by the BS. Although I was smitten, his treatment of me quickly surpassed my level of tolerance...I'm really not one to be abused. I'd leave in a second.

The second client...former athlete, but of the preppy variety. Think crew. Went to Yale, then Harvard. Also shorter than me and all of his 'bulk' came from Peter Luger-pudginess rather than being a MEATHEAD. Except if you count brains as 'bulk'.  

Third...just an average Joe, but had a good education and was more computer nerd than BEEEEFY dood. OK, he was a broke-ass dude (true to stereotype). But I was attracted to him because he was a genuinely kind person and a gentleman.

The import of your post (in your mind) - Like Attracts Like. Since we're all basically semi-literate former strippers - we'll only want do date musle-bound bouncers.  

Move on

I don't quite agree that "good" providers i.e. with so many strong qualities that they are wife material have that limited a  pool of men. They meet far more men , probably above average in success than they would just being a civvie.  

I know I'm one of those guys the OP is referring to. But you know what, I've moved on with my life. But I'm never going to believe my ex-ATF was not what I wanted in a dream wife. I do realize she probably did not like my personality.  
More than half of the time she was laughing at me, or reminding me I was probably too "dorky" for her or whatever qualities that are not attractive to a powerful provider (yes there are powerful providers who know how to leverage their beauty with their brains among other things). I've seen her at her worst. yelling at me on bad days and other nonsense and I still forgave her because I had already fallen in love from my first sight of her on first meet, and eventually realized it after 7 years. I had guessed a lot of her interests and personality and ambitions.  

So I knew. Of course, the better guy won out with her even though he had also been a client. And this kind of thing happens far far often with providers who have retired or left the hobby then people for some reason resist letting on. A movie/book example: "The Poseidon Adventure" in Borgnine's character's relationship with his wife, an ex-prostitute.  I knew of another ATF who left 3 years ago also happy in a relationship with another "ex-client". It sucks, I will miss her every day long as I live and know I fell far short of the competition in her eyes. But I'm still not going to believe  the "it would have been fake; it wouldn't have worked anyways;" kind of mantra any longer.  

When the client also agrees to be an "ex-client" then you know the relationship is built far more than just the hobby/bedroom related stuff espoused on threads like these. Where for some reason some are trying to repeatedly come up with these threads to say relationships with a powerful stable provider and a client who leaves the hobby for her (as they leave together simultaneously from the hobby(elope)) , can't get it together in a civvie relationship.

It is possible, but for the average single client, it's seems to be a lot like winning the CA mega lottery to win the provider they've fallen for,  like ddd mentioned. The chances for a powerful provider wishing to retire and find and pick a client to be her chosen SO is far better as they know many more "fans" and clients who dream about being one of her suitors. With that much experience one would think the provider can do reasonable filtering of their own as they know every regular or semi-regular client they've been with on a very close level.  

It's also logical. The provider has a one to many connection and experiences to hundreds if not thousands of clients and has pretty much the pick of her pool. While the interested client usually only knows the provider and has little or no idea what competition he is up against for the provider's post provider-career relationship plans.  

 

-- Modified on 11/25/2013 4:15:07 PM

There's a lot of women who, for a variety of reasons, are drawn to dirtballs. My ex and I were dating other people for about a year and a half in the early 70's. She saw some real gems: a pool hustler, pot dealer, even a heroin pusher. Her sister is the same way. Both married nice guys. Sister's marriage didn't last. Mine did, but I suspect it's because I put up with the abuse I probably would not have gotten if I were an abusive scumbag.

My ex was a slut, and so is her sister.  Their home life was far from normal, with a drunken, cheating, abusive father.  

I've gotten to know a bit about the provider I've been seeing lately, and I get a sense from her that she had similar circumstances growing up.

The question isn't whether providers are drawn to scumbags. That's too general a statement to even consider. What would be interesting to know is whether the percentage is higher for providers than the average female population.

With that in mind, I would propose the government issue a grant for me to have sessions with providers and, after the sex (of course), I ask questions about their childhood and their SO's. Strictly for science. ;

How often that happens?