Ok, I totally understand if no one wants to comment on this one! haha


I'm just wondering though, what folks thoughts are, in regards to the contradicting messages in American society right now, regarding sex and age.

Pretty much, any sex with a female under the age of 18, will get wrath and vicious animosity and finger pointing...............

YET, somehow we all accept and condone the school-girl outfits, the "daddy's bad girl" type role play, the naughty schoolgirl role play, the babysitter role play, etc, etc, etc...........


Am I the only one who notices these contradictions, and is pretty stupified at the outrage that is shown?

I don't find a contradiction and I don't feel offended when I'm asked to wear a 'schoolgirl' type outfit.

I'm obviously a grown woman so the schoolgirl look is for fun and not believable.

I find it uncomfortable and worrying if a guy is asking a young-looking 18/19/20 year old provider to dress as a schoolgirl.

With parental consent people can still marry at age 14 in a few states. But that's not really your topic.

Though I'm not into it I look at this as just role play, a game. People dress up in some wierd things for Halloween, but it doesn't make them Freddie, Jason or whatever.

The problem comes when fantasy overtakes reality. Some folks didn't want their kids watching the Three Stooges because they couldn't trust the kids to know that it was an act. There's plenty of other examples but I think the bottom line is just that.

People fearing that things like this will incite others into doing the wrong thing.

But by dressing up as a schoolgirl or whatever, you are accepting and condoning the fact that your sexual partner is attracted to schoolgirls, right?  Trust me, when men do something in a sexual context, it is never "just for fun."  If a guy wanted you to do something "just for fun," he would ask you to dress up as a circus clown.  But if he asks you to dress up as a schoolgirl, it's because he's trying to heighten his own arousal through fantasy-play.  Which means, he fantasizes about schoolgirls.

Aug5, I strongly disagree with you comments on this.  

I believe when it’s a mature woman dressed as a schoolgirl then it’s harmless roleplay as there is no suggestion of a real child being in voled.

I have fantasies I enjoy playing out sexually but would never wish them to be played out in ‘real life’.  I imagine the schoolgirl fantasy falls into that category for the vast majority of guys.

I don't think we all accept the "daddy's bad girl" image at all.  i find it a bit creepy to tell you the truth.  i have yet to see a provider under 25 years.  everytime a provider catches my eye and i see she's 19 or 20 i feel somewhat guilty and move on. and i'm only 37.

As disturbing as it can be, if you have an illicit  fantasy that can be worked out legally with a consenting adult, then the act has no real-world consequences.

This gets very close to other forms of censorship. There is usually wrath, vicious animosity, and finger pointing over murder. They still haven't outlawed the action film, or if you want to compare "live" fantasies: "MacBeth."

It contatins the instruction manual on how to use Ter, post your website link, etc...

shaka700

thanks guys!

I'm not a newbie but possibly forgetful today.

I'm sure most who are interested enough can work out they only need to put .com at the end to find my website.

kisses....Carrie xxx

You see, guys like me are so funny.

shaka700

I think for some of us it doesn’t necessarily have to do with looking at a younger woman, an underage girl, it is more of the fantasy of that time of our lives.  I never got to be with the smoking hot cheerleader in my school, although I often thought about it.  As for the school girl which one of us guys didn’t think about doing her when we were that age?  My memory of that time is much more exciting then my present sexual life.  There was an excitement about it, kissing a girl was awesome – let alone the fantasy of having sex with her.  These days its more of “been there done that”  Sex is of course still awesome, but it doesn’t have the same excitement as it used to.  So I don’t think that the sexual excitement gained by providers (or wives or girlfriends) wearing the uniforms, typically worn by the underage girls in society, have to do so much with what that image represents with respect to age, but rather what that image embodies with respect to a time in our lives….

Fantasy and reality are two different things...

"Rape" fantasies are another perfect example.  One might enjoy a negotiated "rape" fantasy in a safe and controlled environment, but that does not mean they truly want to be raped in real life.

xoM

Personally, the whole school girl outfit/daddy's little bad girl thing does nothing for me but the sex industry exists in large part to help us explore our fantasies.  I don't judge people for what they are thinking, only by their actions.
Role playing with another consenting adult is not the same thing as having sex with a minor.

The roleplays grew out of the fact that Daddy can't touch his little girl....

Daddy..only Daddy knows the answer to why he likes young girls..virginal..I think the guys need to address this.

I do like role play..even the Daddy's Little Girl.

BUT

I wouldn't want my little girl doing a DAD

XO

Sexy Carolina

for me there's a difference between a "father-daughter" fantasy roll play and a school girl coach/teacher...neither are for me but the former creeps me out...sorry, I know it's all just fantasy but I don't want to go there.

Ok, I've read the responses so far, and most seem to be saying "there is a clear distinct difference between fantasy and reality".......


what about though, if someone suggests that these things have an influence towards reality?


FOR EXAMPLE -  in porn, you can see many series, where there is a blatant expression/exploration of the whole "minor - adult" sex thing.  Girls are looking very young, and are in rooms made out to look like a young girls room............

Surely we all can agree that teenage girls under the age of 18 can be extremely hot looking and enticing, aside from the morality factor...

It seems to me, like we're pushing for this, or dancing on the edge.


I'm sure most have seen the increasing accounts of teachers having sex with students....   or the increasing accounts of child molestation....

What about "To Catch a Predator"?   Can you believe how big the response was??  (talking about how many guys pursued the decoy)


I'm just wondering if we're sending mixed messages, and not being honest with ourselves, as a society?


Allow me to be upfront and honest -  

I DO find that girls under 18 can be extremely attractive.

The thought of it can be extremely hottt.


The other side of me though, thinks totally differently, as a mature adult, and strives to take responsibility, even when SOME teenage girls are begging for your attention and pursuit.


It's crazy to me though, that in our society these days, we are becoming so open with sexuality, and are flaunting it everywhere, yet on the other hand, we seem to want to pretend that those who are younger are not living in the same society where all this is projected, as though they are living in a bubble, or alternate universe.


Just some thoughts..

very good questions Nitescape, i've wondered and theorized about many of the same things myself.

there are gaping contradictions in western society regarding sex and age. in louisiana a 13 or 14 yr old girl can marry a 30 yr old man with the consent of her parents, but in new york they'll lock up a 19 yr old kid for having sex with his 16 yr old girlfriend. everything in our culture equates youth with sexiness...the cosmetic companies promise to erase those fine lines and wrinkles, plastic surgeons promise to lift breasts to the heavens and make your skin drum tight. yet the segment of society which has these features naturally (typically those under 18) are discouraged from being sexually active with anyone, much less with anyone significantly older. and don't even get me started on the irony of the law believing a 15 yr old is unable to consent to sex, yet if that same 15 yr old commits murder they will be tried as an adult and serve 25 to life.

the fact is that western society is grossly confused and frankly bass-ackwards in this area. laws and social mores should be more in line with human biology, imo.

think back to a time when this was actually the case...not so very long ago really, say when my grandparents were growing up. by age 12 my grandmother was raising pigs and chickens (not to mention slaughtering and cooking them), tilling fields, cleaning a house from top to bottom...which unlike the light dusting, vacuuming, running of the dishwasher and washing machine of today instead included getting on her hands and knees and scrubbing wooden floors with vinegar, homemade soap and water pumped from the well then boiled over a wood-burning stove, handwashing clothes wrung over a board in a metal basin outdoors, mending and sewing her own clothing, etc. and these were simply everyday chores. by 15 she was married (to my 21 yr old grandpa) and helping him clear the land for their own farm and would soon be pregnant with the first of many children.

now imagine the typical american 12 yr old of today...spoiled rotten with video games, a new wardrobe for every season, cell phones, etc...and in most cases no chores or responsibilities beyond washing their own bums and keeping their dirty underwear off the floor. imagine your typical 15 yr old...physically they've reached full sexual development, but because our society infantalizes young people to the point of total incompetency until age 21, they truly can't cope well with all the emotional ramifications of sex and any other adult issue. this has nothing to do with their numerical age, and everything to do with the failings of our current society. can you tell i've thought about this a bit? lol

When I role play daddy's little girl....

It is about a tight pussy, clean shaven....nice soft firm ass...soft skin...and the tabooness actually adds to the play.....
I don't for a min think my friend craves for little girls..it is the whole NAUGHTINESS..the language...dirty talk...it is all about the sweet little pussy and ass.....

We are adults and we can distinguish fantasy from reality.

The naughty school girl...the Professor who needs to talk to me about my daughter's inappropriate school attire...the new Paper Boy..the list goes on and on.

If you have an imagination and the desire you can play the role ...

I realize what I like is not what I would like for my daughters.
That is life

-- Modified on 10/8/2007 10:25:54 AM

Societal norms play an enormous role in the shaping of our feelings, and most exist for good reasons...to facilitate an ever growing human population.

Our hard wiring, from millions of years of evolution, were designed to propogate the species. The male urge to spread our seeds, and the female urge to accept as much as possible has little to do with age. The best reproductive strategy would certainly be "early & often".

Society wants an ever-increasing sophistication, to improve the odds of survival for the masses.  Prolonging reproduction allows our children extra development and allows society to reap more fruit from their labor.

The question shouldn't be about indulging our primitive urges...we already do a nice job supporting that outlet.  The question really should be, What next?
We've got the world nice & crowded.  When will society demand a different norm.  Forget underage sex...we need to eliminate sex all together.

Get ready girls...

Ok
The Reality is that it sells...the men buy into it...ask the MEN why it turns them on?

What is it about young girls...something they can't have..something they miss....I think us ladies try to understand and support the needs of you fellas...but we have no control over your unsatiable minds and cocks...You have it all...You DICKtate!!

and as stated before -  I love you! hahaha    

Let me stop, before you start thinking I'm gonna stalk you...


But for real, you stated some things that were exactly what I was trying to express.

You did a nice job of defining things, and delving into the ridiculousness of our current society.



At this point I feel more comfortable enough to say it -  

I feel much of the outrage about those under the age of 18 involved in sex (specifically those between 13-17) is largely false/phony, and based on a rehearsed/brainwashed reaction that folk feel is expected.

Again, political correctness in effect.


Don't get me wrong, if you don't want people to engage in sex before 18?  I'm fine with that....  but then address the rest of the craziness, and don't put out all these mixed messages.


For a society that puts so much emphasis and value onto looks and sex appeal, it amazes me how folk THEN have the audacity to be so "outraged" (supposedly) about sexual involvment of minors.



and yes Lill, I could tell you've dealt with this subject before, haha.

Well..............


it's not always the men who initiate things....  sometimes it's women enticing us.

In a society where currently many women aren't valuing men, nor striving to understand, respect nor love us, I think many men turn to younger women or even girls, because they feel that they are easier to deal with.


Not only that, but with all the mixed messages, and all the things that are allowed, I think many men feel that it's ok, via the fact that certain things are tolerated, and even promoted.


For example, even in the fashion industry, women are thin and young and girlish looking.

In all kinds of venues, YOUTHFUL looks and beauty are what's pushed.

Brittany Spears was pretty young looking...



and speaking from a man's point of view, OF COURSE a 16 year old girl can be hottt!!!

As Lilli mentioned, in earlier and ancient times, a girl was considered a woman as soon as she hit puberty.

Who determined that you have to be 18 to be considered an adult with your own body, yet with so many other things, it's ok to consider them an adult.


Speaking strictly about sex, as a man I am attracted to a woman who is submissive.  Let’s be real, there’s a difference between “making love”, and casual sex where you are FUCKING the person.

When you are fucking, you’re after what gets you hottt.   The morality doesn’t really enter into it.   (perhaps that’s why God/Bible says it’s not good to have sex outside marriage, but I digress…)

If a girl can be taught or manipulated or corrupted, it’s fucking hottt.   Or even if the girl is willing to let you treat her in a degrading or rough way, it’s fucking hott.  If the girl wants to get nasty period, it’s hottt.

When you are fucking, you aren’t saying “darling I love you so dearly”…………    you are saying “fuck me you bitch/slut/whore/insert your word of choice”.

So is it then, any wonder that men are attracted to what we fantasize and role-play about??

2 males 2 females 2 ARE adults 2 are HS

My youngest is 15 and very beautiful...they all are.

I see men look at her

I shop with her...make-up, clothes..she eats everything and skinny is not what we try to be..FIT..muscles, healthy..YES

I am thankful in OUR society..she is not considered a woman once she reaches puberty.

I would suggest to all men..that you look at young girls..like my 15 year old as a KID...But you don't...can't..aren't able to????
Not all men of course.

Even in this business MANY hobbiests are always looking for young fresh "Young" ???
In the reviews they say she is SHY and inexperienced...With a HOT bod..BUT with some coaching she can become???

I would rather play Daddy's little Girl with my friends than play with a Daddy who likes his girl to be "18".....In fact if I have seen reviews from guys that cater to young girls...I do not want to PLAY with them. We wouldn't have much in common IMHO.





-- Modified on 10/8/2007 12:12:46 PM

actually I prefer nude... period.

I've never understood the fascination for underage gals... and kinda prefer ladies that I date either civie or hobby above the 21 age....  and more and more I have noticed that for the type of service I like, and the interaction that I like, above 35 or so is also better (there are exceptions but then again that too is ok).  

Ideally my fantasy is a random meeting while on a business trip - to a city far away, and I meet a fellow business traveler who is randy and ready for some hot, sweaty fun....  

Age?  well - did she go to Wharton or Harvard business school.... Harvard tends to have older grads than Wharton....   (has to do with the requirements to get in...)

Not judging you, but you just admitted that you shop with your "kid" to buy make-up.  

Why are you buying her make-up if you want her looked at as a kid???


and I'll BET, that some of the clothes you buy her, are a little sexy...



Women love to entice, but then love to make the MEN out to be "the big bad wolf".

Classic Adam and Eve ish...

Who loves make-up and clothes, loves to style hair....loves fashion...and she is also an athlete and an honor roll student.
In no way do I suggest to her how to be Sexy. But I did teach her the words Vagina and penis..rather than than....you can name a few I am sure.

My daughter does spend time on her appearance. She told me the other day that she wanted to go to Cosmetology school. As long as she loves what she does I am content. Of course, I would never want her to be an 18 year old Sexy Carolina and I would find it awfully hard to believe she would enjoy that vocation.

I stand, or sit here and argue that because my daughter wears make-up and shops in dept stores for her clothes...she wears what is sold...that does not make her Daddy's Little Girl"...that is absurd. Sexy comes from within..IMHO..not from clothes, make-up and looks.

The MEN are looking at kids..teenagers...my daughter....She is not interested in making EYE contact with you....She is not YOUR eye candy...she is 15. She is interested in school, her friends....not Old Men!!

To blaming your horniness for teenage girls on the girls themselves.  Since you find them attractive and others here, including myself, don't it seems pretty clear that the obsession is in the eyes of the beholder. Many of us, obviously not all, have an internal filter-a sense of what is right and what is wrong, that tells us who we can have and who we can't.
Trying to blame society for your horniness is just a cop-out plain and simple. No one can stop you from feeling whatever it is that you feel when you drive past the High School girl's field hockey practice but please don't try and blame it on the girls.

Makeup is intended to make girls look sexy.  Period.  And many parents simply will not allow their daughters to wear it for that reason.  As for why men find young girls attractive?  It's as I've always said: you can't reform biology.  You may just as well ask yourself why you are attracted to... well, whomever you are attracted to.  Is attraction a conscious choice?  No.  At least not for men.  I sincerely doubt that women make conscious choices about who to be attracted to either, right?  I wrote a well-thought-out post about this recently.  Read it and tell me what you think:

Is for HER..not for you.

If she wants to cover a blemish..make her eyes pop or bronze her cheeks..it is not to be confused with her trying to be Sexy..It's about her feeling good...
Here is a story ...true..One day I was out with my 2 daughters...A fella I know..not in this biz..BTW..Says to me..I saw your daughter...She was gorgeous...I said which one? Both of them were together..he said The Blonde...She was 14...Believe me..I was just a little weirded out. My other daughter is gorgeous too..27 years old....


Don't blame young girls for looking cute..Here is another story...My friend tells me he saw the cutest little blonde...must have been 2 years old..with a pretty pink bow! There's nothing cuter he said.

Men will always look at cute little blondes...2 years, 14 years...17 years...So be it.

Just don't think that the cute little blondes want horny old men to be looking at them.

What about the cute natural blonde who is 15 years old...no make-up...but she is too hot to not glance at. Is my cute little blonde that wears make-up asking for your glance anymore than the other?

Sexycarolina,

I don't mean to put you on the defensive, and I don't want you to think I'm trying to offend or upset you, so please don't take it that way.....


but in one breath you're trying to talk to/about men like they are molesters, and then the next breath you talk about how she loves make-up, clothes and fashion.


Instead of trying to put the onus on men that you don't know, perhaps you should take control of your daughter and stop her from being such a little "attention whore"?

What is going on these days, where parents like yourself want to condone their daughters doing their selves up, but then on the other hand you talk like you are outraged?

That is a COMPLETE contradiction.

I'm not mad at you, nor am I trying to judge you, but your attitude makes ZERO sense.



By the way, when you said that she is a "normal teenage girl", you just made my point.

Don't try to make it seem like all men are "horny old men" as you put it.....


All you're doing, is trying to talk down to men, so you can justify your parenting and your daughter's actions.


My ex used to claim the same thing -  "I just want to look good for myself"

uh, yeah right.

She LOVES attention.

So does your daughter.

So do MOST women.

Please with the bullshit already.

Whom do you think you're fooling with that?

Your SELF maybe?



Sweety, you might think your daughter is just a little innocent angel who "never is looking for eye contact from men", but what she does and how she acts when you're not around, you do not know.

I've seen PLENTY of young hoe-ish teenage girls, and just about ALL of them have family/parents who think that they are just the most innocent little angels.....


You standing there trying to brow-beat men for looking at pretty girls, is like some man brow-beating women for being self-absorbed narcissists, or compulsive shoppers, etc....  lol

You can try to vilify others if you want, but it sounds to me as if you're doing that because you don't want to put the responsibility on yourself or your daughter.

Old fella, give yourself a break today.


Don't try to give me any moral lecture, on a board for prostitution. lmao


A filter for a sense of right and wrong?

You have GOT to be kidding me...



Who made YOU judge of what is right and wrong?

and since when do you speak for anyone but yourself??



Question, how would you like it if a christian walked up to you, and gave you the same speech, and told you that most of the folk of the church didn't have the same horniness for prostitutes.....................  

oh forget it, this is just too ridiculous -  ROFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Seriously old fella, give yourself a break today, and get off deez nutts.

Everytime I make a post somewhere, you show up to try to criticize, and it's not just me that you do that to.

Do me a favor and go look in the mirror (for once), and worry about that dude that you see right there.   *WINK!!!!!!!!!!!*

Your opinions are what they are. Stop attacking people who refuse to tell you that it's OK. You don't know the lady or her children so what on earth gives you the right to judge them? Accept responsibility for your own urges and beliefs.

What on earth are you talking about? I never claim to speak for anyone but myself. Accept the fact that I and others here don't agree with your stance and move on. Personal attacks and insults are uncalled for and do nothing to advance your POV.

I know exactly what this board is about pal. I see lots of providers and every last one of them is above the age of consent.

If you don't like my opinions thats fine but I'm a member here same as you. If you want a board where everyone agrees with you your best bet is to start your own and limit the membership to yourself.

Just for the record, 1) I'm a fairly young guy, and 2) I'm usually attracted to OLDER women, so don't talk to me like I'm some drooling perverted old man, okay?  And by the way, I agree that wearing makeup is about making HER feel good.  That's because women and girls feel good about themselves when they think they look sexy.  She's just trying to immitate the older girls who get attention from the boys.

I'm sure it's in there somewhere....



and if you don't have one?



DEFINITELY go out and buy one.

-- Modified on 10/8/2007 9:11:51 PM

What I'm talking about, is that YOU speak for just you.

Don't try to speak for others.

What's so hard to understand?



I have no problems with someone disagreeing with my opinion, but if you're gonna grant yourself moral authority, I'm gonna hold up a mirror.  Plain and simple.

Who are you, to act as moral authority, or judge and jury of lil ole me?


Like I said, give yourself a break today, and get off my nutsack.




By the way, if you're sensitive, don't try to get personal with others, placing yourself as their judge, and then perhaps you won't be so offended and hurt.

Who asked for your opinion of me?

My post has a topic, and the topic is not me.

Perhaps you might want to think about that, and then give some thought to why you're so intent on trying to address someone whom you do not know, and never will.




-- Modified on 10/8/2007 9:19:52 PM

It's important I first point out that society at large does not accept pornography very much more than sex beneath age of consent. I realize that porn is getting some acceptance now, but it's still disdained enough.

The acceptance of sex appears to be turning more and more on whether its consensual. That's definitely the plurality opinion on this board (the so called "elite" opinion you which you refer). The notion is similar to a "contract." A cornerstone of consensual sex is age of consent. Age of majority is in it somewhere, but statutory and case law is an incredible mess right now. I think it will get more orderly when there's more tolerance of sex, but being in flux about it, of course there are plenty of "mixed messages."

What you said about fantasy effecting reality. That has been argued a lot about many other things. About violent video games, about violence in movies, and yes, apparently about sex, too.  Whether the messages are mixed or not, what would the alternative be?  Can you think of another one besides the Orwellian theory of "thought-crime?"  

The other thing is, as tempting as it might be, you shouldn't take individual choice out of the matter.  For me, I've looked at pornography for over 30 years.  The only thing it has added to my sexual repertoire is Russian and Greek. If the hobby is the question, I could never see why prostitution, per se, was wrong.  Even as a grade-schooler. Mary Magdalen's story was really incomprehensible to me.

For individual choice, if I watch porn and the woman looks too young, I turn it off. The only "teenage" girls I have fantasies about are the ones who were teenagers when I was that age.

However, I consider that attraction to teenage women is just something in males. I don't consider it to be on the same scale of wrong as child molestation-- or teenage prostitution. It still turns on the theory of consent (and also that the guy serving time is probably better than making him marry the girl, or worse, having the parents shoot him). I'm shocked at the number of hebephiles (guys turned on by teenage girls) and pedophiles being uncovered, but the difference now is probably that we're catching the guys.

However, when you bring up teachers having sex with their students I have to say I think the difference is people are more alert to it. When I was growing up, it was going on. I know a teacher who married one of his students a year after she graduated.  People probably just weren't looking for it. She just happened to be the most spectacular looking girl in the school    

Last point about fantasy effecting reality, I'm not a psychologist, but IMHO, fantasy probably has a paradoxical role in human behavior. I think there are perhaps two different kinds of fantasies: deliberate and compulsive. Sometimes you have deliberate fantasies which you can have while knowing that you won't commit the acts. It's done willfully to more or less to act them out harmlessly.

The compulsive ones, though, come to you whether you want them or not and guide behavior and make you compulsively watch things incite that replay the fantasy. Suicide ideation is one type of compulsive fantasy, and in the same way, it can soon drive behavior. Those are the ones that need to be detected.    

So, as with any other part of our media, for some people, yes, porn can cascade into behavior. Again, people have to be alert to the effects in themselves, use their wills, get help if necessary and watch for these types of things in other people.

For almost all teenage girls, they're skins would crawl at the thought of looking pretty for older men. It's something their mothers understand very well.

I do know of a few cases where teenage girls have seduced older guys. It's pretty easy for them, because generally guys are well pre-disposed to sex with a teenager.

When this happens, IMO, it's either because she is very rebellious and she wants to see if she could do it, or, more likely, her life is terrifying and unstable so she's desperate to have an authority figure.

You can have rules that put some restraint on it or guide it. I had my post on biology to describe why the tendency to poach teenage girls is so widespread. Biology is not the arbiter of morality or law. Men can't help having the thoughts, but if you justify behavior on biology, then all kinds of terrible things are justified.  

Unfortunately, due to the fact that sexual mores are in flux right now, the laws regarding ages of majority and consent are a total mess.  

But it's still an improvement over what it was before. If you ask me, though, bringing a guy up on charges and threatening him with prison time are far better than what used to happen. Which was he either married her or his family would "avenge her honor," that is to say, shot him. Meanwhile, she married him or got thrown out of the house.

A teenage girl very very rarely puts on make-up to look good for older guys. Maybe for the guys in college she'd feel flattered, but much older than that, and her skin would crawl.

I disagree with you. For the simple reason that the guy is older. He should know better. I really find the analogy with hunting to be good here. If you need or want to hunt, go ahead, but don't poach.

If you're wondering why she seems contradictory, emotions over ones children usually are. A woman loves them so much that she is a little insane about them.

How could you call my daughter that you have never met..A LITTLE ATTENTION WHORE?

You really did miss the point!!

I know
You think I made her up to be a cock tease for you!
Well you are wrong.


And I will be honest with you.

Your attitude in this thread is fucked up.
From what I read...I put 2 and 2 together..you like them young. And you blame me and my innocent 15 year old daughter who wears make-up for making your cock hard and wanting to fuck her.

Well Mr...get a handle on your brain and your cock. Little girls are for little boys. And your brain needs a rwality check.
I'm finished with this thread. And your insults. You and your buddy Ang can get together and go to the Mall and look at teenagers and get off.

Where did you get that?


I mean, I guess that has been YOUR experience or perceptions, but I just haven't had the same then.


Maybe it's different according to where you live?  I don't know, but I live in LA, and I have personally known a good number of high school teenage girls, who pursue, have boyfriends, date, have sex with, older men.

Perhaps it's the definition of "older men" that we're differing on?

I don't know, but MANY girls I've seen, known, and heard about (through their mothers, aunts, uncles....) who are teens, like older men for a variety of reasons.


I'm wondering if there is a certain element of naivete present, with some of you?




Oh and how does "looking sexy for guys your own age" work exactly?

You're saying that a 15 year old girl is ok to entice teenage guys with sex appeal?

If that is your point, are you assuming that the teenage girl who takes it upon herself to look sexy, is thinking morally?

If a girl is trying to look sexy, what do you think she's doing it for?

Call me crazy, but I'd say that it's to entice and manipulate (training her feminine wiles), or to get attention.

So do you think someone enticing or manipulating is worried about a societal standard of what is proper age to associate with?

And do you think a little "attention whore" (that's a common term by the way, in case some don't know) isn't going to crave attention from anywhere she can get it??

You're grasping at straws, and trying to find something you can throw a tantrum about, because you don't want to deal with reality.


You make the statement about "how can you call someone you've never met....", yet you just "put 2 and 2 together", and made me and Aug out to be child predators.

Again -  more contradictions (ie complete hypocrisy)


I guess I can conclude from this, that some women (and also some enabling men) refuse to take any responsiblity for their selves or their daughters,  and the deceit and manipulations are intentional.

We can agree to disagree, but as I stated above, in my experience many girls like older guys, for a number of reasons....


Also, the girl who is out to entice and/or attention, is not thinking in an honest/moral way, so to assume such is pretty naive.


I also don't get your analogy about "poaching".   If your point is to make the girls out to be unaware of what they are doing, that's just giving them a free pass to do it more.

You don't let your kids run wild, and then expect strangers to conform to your own personal moral standards.



And if a parent really loves their kids, TRULY loves them, then they should take personal responsibility, and also teach that responsibility to their kids..............

not justify their daughters running around looking like little hookers (which so many of today's teenage girls do), and sticking their heads in the sand.

What that says to me, is NOT that the parent loves their child............

but that they really don't care.

Sorry, I just had to run a reality check for a minute....



I'm sorry, but the audacity and irony of some folks here, trying to impose moral codes and make judgments of others, is pretty astounding.


My favorite is the guy who is preaching about "controlling your horniness", and then brings up "age of consent" laws.....

uh, just in case you didn't notice?

Prostitution is illegal.

It's also considered HIGHLY immoral by THE MAJORITY of our society (otherwise it wouldn't be illegal).


Why don't YOU control YOUR OWN horniness, and stop soliciting prostitutes?? ROFLMAO



I've really learned a lot from this thread though, and the contradictions from people EVERYWHERE are amazing.


One thing I've learned, is that we all tend to justify our own actions, yet SOME of us have no control over pointing fingers at others.....

even on a forum such as this, where folk highly resent being judged, those same folk judge others...

Amazing.

That's largely a matter of status. She can tolerate more that that if he looks younger. If he's wealthy, that could sweep her off her feet.  Attracting a really wealthy guy can give her a rush. (Control of resources is important to females of any species. Females have been like that long before women.)

I could think of a few other things. She might want to take her shapely body out for a test-drive and see if she could seduce an authority figure like a teacher. It takes a girl who's really bold and maybe high-status to do that. That would be very conditional. If she's raised in a violent environment and feels powerless, she will seek a very strong, and perhaps a total SOB of an older guy just for the protection.

Really, my experience of *most* teenage girls is that they are very uncomfortable if not squeamish with the idea that guys can get sexual pleasure from merely looking at them, and it's worse if we talk about older in terms of middle age. Now, there might be specific exceptions to that, but if the attention is unwanted, I've heard women say that the feeling is more like nausea.

I can think of another reason for make-up: Competition with other girls-- for status. Now it might turn guys heads, but there's definitely more status to being able to do it more often. It doesn't necessarily mean she wants any of the guys who are giving her attention, the important thing is to show that she can do it and she's in control. A small part of it might be to show that she could persuade her parents to let her wear make up.

I won't call you crazy, I'd call you cynical to the core. You don't even see that it gives you a low opinion of girls and women. You don't consider the complexity. Like men, they do things things without thinking about it, without reasoning, and which cannot explain.

It's the things that we do without thinking that make us what we are.

I don't have time to respond or comment on everything, but I will in a little while.


In the meantime, I just wanted to point out, how your story about the girl who married her teacher a year after graduation, makes my point, about teen girls who like older men.


I would agree that some/many teen girls, don't want any attention from older men............

but there are many others, whom do.


A young friend of mine, JUST turned 19, and she LIVES with a man whom is 38.

(and no I'm not talking about me, lol)

Teenage girls almost always haven't connected the dots about their sexuality yet. But you've done it for them, and you fucked it up, confusing results (and some very biased ones) with motivation. The only results you see: the girl being more attractive to guys. You haven't connected the dots with the motivations of the teenager and the mother, which are usually far different. And they will be offended by the results you're assigning them, to mother and daughter, those results are usually a mere side-effects.

I could think of another reason for make-up: status among other girls. I could think of a good reason that a mother would allow make-up: keep her girl from losing status to the point where she grows despondent. Also, for the mother, there's pride.

Actions will lead to sexual attraction and sex despite what we think. It's simply because our sex drives always compel us to reproduce, often in our unconscious, often against our wills, often through actions we don't think about, and often sneaking it in through things we ignore.

The motivations are an important part of this, and it's simply an error to discard them, or worse, ignore them.

-- Modified on 10/9/2007 10:28:32 AM

but I find them highly subjective and narrow perspective.


Sounds like you're trying to sum up all teenage girls, and what their wants and desires are.....

it also sounds like you're making things up, or making excuses...........   anything but putting any responsibility on them or their parents.

You almost sound like their lawyer.


You can call me "cynical to the core" if you wish, it doesn't really sway me though, without illustrating how or why.


As for "not considering the complexity", it sounds to me like you are a lawyer, trying to let your clients off the hook by any means possible.

It's really not all that complex.


I'm not judging either way, but either you -

a)  let these girls have freedom, and grow up faster

or

b)  do NOT let these girls have as much freedom, and stop them from growing up so fast



With option A, you can't grant them freedom, and not ask them to have any responsibility.  It's a dis-service to them.


Any amount of judging me, or other total strangers, is not going to change the effects on THEM, and their own life experiences in the future.

All that's doing, is making excuses, in place of personal responsibility.

Funny, but it seems like you're trying to connect the dots as to what my opinion is -  and you're all mixed up.


Teenage girls wearing make-up and dressing sexy is either appropriate in your view, or not.

IF you decide it's appropriate, then take the responsibility that goes with it.

It's just that simple.



You're sitting there trying to come up with all these possible reasons for a young girl looking sexy..................

WHATEVER the reason or motivation, you need to take responsibility.



You'd make a good lawyer, but at the end of the day, this is what it comes down to.

I agree with Zin, that most teenage girls dress to impress their peers, not us dirty old men,but depsite their protestations to the contrary, they, like all "women" want the attention, even from us dirty old men. That goes for all females from puberty, till way past menopause.

I also admit to liking younger women, and there are many teenaged women that will turn my head. I can't imagine having sex with a child, but once a girl/women develops a womans's body, my lower parts consider her a woman. the pious amongst us just need to get over it, I won't have sex with an underage girl/woman, mainly because of the consequences, but I also believe eighteen is a very arbitrary number.

"I won't have sex with an underage girl/woman, mainly because of the consequences, but I also believe eighteen is a very arbitrary number."



and therein lies the rub.



I love it when folks attempt to push their own personal moral code, such as the age of consent 18............   ESPECIALLY those who engage in this hobby. lmao


After all, if a girl is 18, does that automatically mean she is "fair game"?

Ridiculous!



Again and again you will see it, that in TODAY'S society, we make men out to be the villain, and expect them to take the blame/responsibility for everything, and women are just innocent victims.


It ain't nuthin but Adam and Eve, with the devil pullin the strings.

Wake the fuck up people.

Stop giving women a free pass, and stop vilifying men.

Otherwise, it's a never-ending war.

Look, like I said, I like OLDER women, NOT teenagers.  In fact, in my entire life, I've only been with ONE girl who was younger than I was at the time, and she was a provider.  And, BTW, I've been with providers who were in their 30s and 40s since I was 17 years old.  I wonder if you consider them to be "perverts" for subverting an "innocent" teenage boy.

I would consider a provider that services a 17 year old male to be a pedophile.

Just because you paid for it dosen't make it not TABOO!

To be honest, I don't think they're pedophiles.  They never would have so much as looked at me if I hadn't paid.  I'm sure they took no pleasure in the act.

I saw my first provider at fifteen, well over thirty years ago. I hasn't seemed to harm me in any way. Sheesh, a seventeen year old male is nothing but a walking erection anyhow.

I was going to stay out of this, but who the hell came up with the number 18 anyhow, hell at seventeen I was in the service learning how to hopefully not get killed. No wonder we're turning into a country of pussies.

And we are all quite aware that escorting is against the law. What does that have to do with the topic that you have raised here? Nothing. You have been doing a fine job of accusing others of clutching at straws while you insist on falling back on reminding us all of something we know full well.
There is a huge difference with what goes on between two consenting adults, yes, legal or not, and what you are talking about here.  There is a huge difference between sharing a fantasy, any fantasy, with another consenting adult and wondering if a teenager who wears makeup is trying to seduce you. She isn't. If it turns you on try looking in that mirror that you keep talking about.

I have a mirror in just about every room in my house and I can look at my reflection in any of them with no regrets.

"No wonder we're turning into a country of pussies."


Amen to that.



Metro-sexualized, from pandering to the sensitivities of women.  Instead of men being men, and being leaders, many of us are too busy licking their boots, and worshiping them like idols, and then we wonder why they don't respect us. lol

Does a pimp respect a ho?

Hell no!!



Anyways, it was refreshing to hear that GA.

Glad you shared.

just how RIDICULOUS you sound, trying to preach/push/brow-beat your standard of morals, when you are engaging/soliciting prostitution.


Just like the MAJORITY of this society doesn't agree with YOU, perhaps you do not agree with me.......

doesn't make either right necessarily does it?


Who are YOU, to say who is an adult and who isn't?


and who are YOU, to judge me, and what I should or shouldn't be attracted to??


by the way, whether they have the balls to admit it here or not (you included), 95% of men are attracted to hot looking teenage girls, so you can get off your RIDICULOUS soap-box crusade, cause at this point you are losing ground, not gaining.


Go Indians!

I believe in respect, but this white knight mentality, along with the increasing infusions of estrogen into this society just makes me want to retch.
We are supposed to be men, if you can't be a man on an escort board...well that's an awfully sad state of affairs. sometimes I wonder how bad things must be for some of these guys at home, if they're that whipped here.

It's a war right now, in our society, with special interest groups (mainly feminists) trying to turn men and women against each other....


Men right now are the bad guys in everything, and we are being vilified left and right, and humiliated and broken down everywhere.


It's especially sad to see some men broken down to the point, where they're turning on you and me, simply for being real men.


I'm no "caveman" or "chauvenist".  I'm open minded, and open to anyone being anything they want....

but when folk expect you and me to become "Frasier and Niles" in order to be accepted, well then fuck it, I don't WANT to be accepted....   not by THAT group anyways.


If it seems like I'm militant, it's not like I walk around angry all the time... lol    That's why I have to laugh, to read the way these folk try to label me, and don't know the first thing about me.


Ok, I'm done my rant. hehe

It's not my moral judgment that is kicking you in the ass, it is society's.  Otherwise you wouldn't be posting a "taboo" topic. As far as who and what I am attracted to, you have no f'n clue and the fact that you are making insinuations about my likes as well as "95 % of men" merely makes you guilty of judging me and others as you claim that I am judging you.
Careful, when you point a finger, that leaves three pointing back at you...

By the way, the issue is not one of attraction, it is simply what is right or wrong in the eyes of others. Not by my standards, not morally but legally. It is not who I say is an adult, it is what the law says and what is accepted by society. Again, if your thinking wasn't considered perverse by most people you yourself wouldn't be calling this topic taboo.

We all open ourselves up for judgment by others simply by posting our thoughts and opinions on a board. For some reason you seem to think that you can say whatever you like here and no one is allowed to put forth an alternate opinion. Sorry but chat boards don't work that way. If you don't want to be judged then just go out trolling for teenage girls and simply don't talk about it here.

I'm done going around in circles with you on this, you can feel free to have the last word.  I only hope that someday you are not blessed with a teenage daughter to further complicate your thought process.


The Indians have a very good team but they are going down to the more experienced Red Sox...

-- Modified on 10/9/2007 7:03:21 PM

It's one of the reasons I spend so much time in Latin America, where its still OK to have a pair. It was bad enough when you had to act like a eunich in "polite society",but when that kind of attitude infects places like TER you know we're in trouble. Oh well,TER still beats the alternative. Peace out

Now, tell me, if am excusing teenage girls and their mothers, is that an admission that you've been ACCUSING them?  

We both accuse each other of being highly subjective and narrow. At least I took trouble to note examples that should be considered in line with your arguments. Such as, girls who take their sex appeal for a "test drive." Do I get any credit for that? For that you call me narrow and subjective. I thought my arguments encompassed yours and agreed it does happen. I also qualified everything I said with "most teenage girls." I think one argument is narrower and less subjective than the other, here, and it's yours, pal.

What I am arguing is: 1) it isn't as frequent as you think; 2) The motivations you infer will not match up with MOST teenage girls or their mothers; they will not see it that way, and they're not bullshitting; that's the honest way they think about it.

So, I sound like a lawyer. There's your less-elitist-than-you claptrap coming out again. I think it's an excuse for just mental laziness and irresponsibility. No, at least you don't sound like a lawyer, no you sound like somebody thrown out of the jury.

In your A and B argument, what do you consider "giving them" responsibility to be?  You should say what exactly responsibility would be, because I'm tempted to think it would be responsibility to get boffed by the older guys, who coincidentally, are made far less responsible as a result.

Just tempted to think that way, you understand.

About "making excuses" instead of giving them personal responsibility.  In a previous post you talked about a guy thinking a blond child is cute. Making oneself or one's child look cute simply cannot be equated with wanting to attract horndogs. If a guy reads that into it-- it is then HIS interpretation, HIS responsibility.

You can't escape the fact that the more responsibility you wish a woman to have for attracting a guy, the less responsibility you give the man for feeling attracted. Soon the women are in burkas and the men think that downright rape is her responsibility.

-- Modified on 10/10/2007 8:43:11 AM

My friend, nothing is "kicking me in the ass", because nothing you say or think, nor anyone else, nor any group, stops me from being a man, who thinks for his self, and stands on what he believes.

I don't run and hide according to any crowd.........


All I did was point out the hypocrisy and irony, of you trying to judge me, by the very same standards to which you yourself are guilty.

Now you're speaking about what is legal?

Uh perhaps you had a few too many tonight, but the last time I checked, this "hobby" was still illegal.  ROFL

This hobby is also taboo my friend.....

If you don't think so, try being open about it in front of a group of public strangers, or maybe in your workplace, or how about in front of your family.


So you can attempt to vilify me all you like, but like I said, once you do that, I will hold the mirror back at ya.

If you keep to the actual topic, instead of trying to judge somebody you've never even met, then you wouldn't have to worry about somebody "having the last word".

Just a little help there old timer.  *wink*



and the Red Sox ARE the favorites, but if all Boston fans are bitter like you, then I'm rooting for the Indians. lol  

and agree with the Boston Guy

It would not matter what the topic is..you are the type to agree to disagree.

Even that is okay, but when you insult other posters because they disagree...it's a problem.

I am glad you are not a Red Sox fan..I love them!! They are my team. I celebrate them.
You sound more like a NYY...never satisfied...over-rated....I know it sounds like I don't like you. If you were the last nitescape on earth I would pray for daylight.

That simple. You want less responsibility for male actions. That simple.

What I've given you is what I've always thought.

It's also not an either or question about make-up and sexy dressing. A parent can and should regulate it, and they often do. My sister with her pretty teenage daughter described a night when her daughter wasn't out as "sleeping in the peace of knowing your daughter wasn't being impregnated that night."

I'm not coming up with "possible reasons."  I've observed these reasons for a long time. These are often the reasons.

As for "connecting the dots" on your opinion wrong, please fill them in for me. I believe I've cited the error you've made, I've told you exactly what I thought was wrong with your reasoning. That you can't see why it was wrong was the reason for this argument at the very beginning.

If you're going to cut things off and just say "it's that simple" it's more like you don't want to take responsibility.

I'm not giving you a lawyer's sophistry. You simply want to believe "it's that simple." There's a lot of miserable responsibility to that. It's the lie you'll suffer by.

Latin America, "where men have a pair," has gone from one mess to another. Africa where men also have a real pair is the most war-torn, AIDS infested, backward continent on earth. There is no coincidence about this.

This men-being-men is to me simply homo-erotic. I'd say you're so turned on by men being men that you lack a certain kind of respect for women, and really have no interest in understanding them.  (Emphasis on CERTAIN KIND.)

The so-called "white knight" is a totally male role, and one that only completely hetero men can fill. Set against feminism on this point, I believe hetero women need it.

sheez, what got your panties so binged up?


Right now, you're drawing a bunch of bogus conclusions, and yes I guess I am lazy if I don't want to take time to explain every little thing to you.


I WILL explain a few though -


1)  "Now, tell me, if am excusing teenage girls and their mothers, is that an admission that you've been ACCUSING them?  "

No, it is not.

You and SC girl and BostonGuy, took it upon yourselves to judge me, and attempt to vilify me, in order to express whatever opinion you wanted to express (which I forgot, because it ceased to be about the topic, and became a slander campaign against me)............

You also attempted to generalize men in a negative way, making us all out to be a bunch of nasty old perverts.

Some of us are very morally responsible and classy and supportive of kids, but you will never know that, because y'all are too busy running around with your torches and pitchforks.


So anyways, what I expressed to you, was that IF you are so hell-bent on participating in a witch hunt, then perhaps you should look at BOTH sides, and not just demonize men.


THIS is why Aug, GA and myself, made the comments that we did, in regards to feminism, and cowed men like yourself, who all join together to pussify men, by making us all out to be more inherently evil than women.


For every man that is perverted and horny, there is a woman who is enticing and manipulative.

Go read the book of Genesis.


The rest of what you said just went in one ear and out the other, because you're trying to talk about me, but not only do you not know the first thing about me personally, but you're also enveloped by your alterior agenda.

Therefore, it amounts to a waste of my time, utterly refuting every pathetic attempt at personally characterizing me negatively, and to hold the mirror up towards you.



By the way, if you want your kid to be looked at as a kid, then don't dress them up in hoochie gear, and paint their faces in make-up.

It's a simple concept..



Have a tremendous day.

"This men-being-men is to me simply homo-erotic."


Your feeling doesn't surprise me....



not in the slightest.



By the way, a man being a man and having respect  for women aren't mutually exclusive, but again, I don't expect you to understand.



Save your psycho-babbling now, and just go listen to some Barbara Streisand, or take a bubble bath or something.


peace

and sweety, I don't get in people's azz, unless they attempt to judge me, or asses me negatively, on a personal level....


if someone sticks to the topic?   then I ain't got nothin to say about you.



or as James Brown says it -  

"don't start none, won't BE none"   *wink*



and actually, I'm a Philly fan, cause that's where I was born, but I grew up out here, so I also route for the Dodgers, and then in worse cases the Angels, but at this point I've run out of teams, so I just had to roll with the Indians, cause at least I was a big fan of the movie "Major League", and so I still at least have a tiny excuse to hop on that bandwagon.


peace, and thanks for the sexy pic....


PS  Do you have one with your hair in pigtails, wearing a little church girl Sunday dress?

"Latin America, "where men have a pair," has gone from one mess to another. Africa where men also have a real pair is the most war-torn, AIDS infested, backward continent on earth. There is no coincidence about this."

These regions are in chaos because of the lagging effects of colonialism.  Male dominance is a symptom, NOT a cause.  Men have more status in a less developed economy that relies on physical strength and manual labor.  As technology is increasingly introduced into Africa and Latin America, the playing field will level out, and women will gain more equality.

"By the way, a man being a man and having respect  for women aren't mutually exclusive, but again, I don't expect you to understand."

That's never been a mystery to me. I just thought contrasting a White Knight to a "real man" to be dumbshit. Don't we agree then?




-- Modified on 10/10/2007 9:42:09 PM

It certainly didn't lag so long in a lot of other places. I might cite it as a complication rather than a symptom. But that's all metaphorical semantics. To clarify, one step in a place like, let's say Congo, Columbia's drug jungle, or tribal Afghanistan, you have to the men to stop being warriors, stop fighting each other. BTW, South America is very much improved.

The spread of AIDS in Sub-Saharan Africa is directly related to the treatment of women.  

"Men have more status in a less developed economy that relies on physical strength and manual labor.  As technology is increasingly introduced into Africa and Latin America, the playing field will level out, and women will gain more equality."

I agree with all of it. The problem is, that men might not be ready to give up their status easily.  

I just found the idea of "men-being-men" and citing it in backward places, and then contrasting that as "not like those white knights."

BTW, you're the one who said that I'm excusing them.  That got jockey shorts bunched up.

So, now you're a victim and you feel like you're persecuted-- purportedly by a cowed guy (what does that say)?  I think you're totally deaf to what you're saying.

No, I don't generalize men in a negative way. I just find it dumb to say "can't we have real men, not these white knights who do things like-- defend women! on a hobby board!"

"For every man that is perverted and horny, there is a woman who is enticing and manipulative."

I 100% agree.

"Therefore, it amounts to a waste of my time, utterly refuting every pathetic attempt at personally characterizing me negatively, and to hold the mirror up towards you."

"Go read the book of Genesis."

I have; I'm an atheist.

Either you're not really reading what I'm saying, or you simply can't get your mind around it, because your mind isn't open.


YOU were the one trying to place blame, and bring judgment -  not me.


Start here, and read that ten times for me.



Once you've grasped that, then move on to this -

SINCE you were trying to place blame, I stated that you shouldn't just look at one side, and give women and girls a free pass (which is the norm in today's feminist/emasculated American society).


Now don't move ahead yet!   Read the above 20 times.



The above is pretty much the important part, of what you need to grasp.

The rest below, is just a quick response, to your CLUELESS commentary -

I do not feel like a victim or persecuted.  

I DO feel like folks like yourself try to put men like me on the defensive and take the blame though!



If you consider yourself a "white knight", then that says a lot.........

so basically, you feel you are "coming to the rescue" of SC girl....

Ok, that explains a lot.

I won't even waste my time commenting on that, but in general, I find it very ridiculous, for women to go around asking to be treated as equals, but yet somehow they also want to be treated "special", and then there are FOOLS like yourself running around thinking that they are "white knights".

Who are you rescuing her from?   And what??

Rescuing her from her SELF maybe?   Because I didn't address her personally, until she came at me that way.

And either way, are you saying she is not an adult, whom is capable and qualified to carry out a discussion/exchange with a man?  lol

Europe wasn't always such a great place, but today the Western World is a model of gender equality.  Is it a Utopia?  No, and no place ever will be.  Let the rest of the world develop at their own pace, without our assistance.  Third World shit-holes are awful places NOT because of male dominance.  That is the stupidest, most ignorant thing I've ever heard.  These countries remain impoverished because of American domestic agricultural subsidies that drive third-world farmers out of business; World Bank and IMF "austerity" programs that forcibly limit social services in those countries; and a constant influx of charitable donations from Western donors.  

Lest we forget, most of these nations are in the pre-industrial agricultural phase of development.  If we prevent them from farming by subsidizing our own crops and driving the world price down, they will never accumulate enough wealth to leave that stage of development.  And then, when they can't pay back international loans, the lenders impose austerity programs to cut-back on much-needed education and public-health programs.  And as a final incentive not to escape from poverty, we give them free food and other donations to assuage our guilt.  All of this should stop immediately, and I guarantee that these countries would develop stable economies on their own.  What does this have to do with "male dominance?"  It's a symptom, not a cause.  How can women compete in an economy where almost all labor is physical?

-- Modified on 10/11/2007 11:31:09 AM

Yes.  That's exactly what I've been saying for years.  Women can't be both "special" and "equal."  They want to have their cake and eat it too.  It's impossible!  Thank you.