I found a website that's a little disturbing.  It seems that most doods hate being married or are thrilled to divorced.

Other than accepting that some relationships can be good AND meant to end. Do some people stay together forever? Of course. But if people allowed themselves to have actual relationships instead of chaining themselves to someone for better or worse, then maybe everyone wouldn't end up so bitter about it in the end if it didn't. Cause it's never been likely, and it's just human nature.

I posed the question the way I did because the blog is from the man's perspective.  I just want to know why marriage has deteriorated the way it has.  I do think that women are confused about our roles in marriage because womens options have expanded so much.  Men's roles in marriage (and society in general) have remained pretty much the same over the past century.  

Never gonna happen. Maybe "traditional" marriage is dead for a good reason.

Marriages back then were stable but the woman was literally kept in a cage. If she was unhappy she had little choice. Getting divorced as a woman back then was social suicide, made you undesirable (well it still does today) and took away your livelihood since the man made all the money. If she did divorce she would have limited job options with a low wage ceiling and be almost certain to live in poverty. Back then there was very little incentive for them to choose divorce.

But the rest of us gals say "FUCK THAT".

Marriage is sort of unnatural from a biological standpoint. I think our natural, animalistic tendencies is to have a romantic period where we have great sex for the purposes of procreation and child-rearing. And after that, it becomes natural, again from a biological standpoint, to get bored with the process and thus seek out new partners ... with the idea of increasing the diversity of the gene pool. i.e. the more diverse the gene pool, the greater the chance of our species survival?

The entire discussion of why couples do or don't stay together centers on how they interact--you know, who gives in to who and who stands up to the other and which is more attractive--and doesn't look at all in how they look at other people in their world. Back in the Father Knows Best day, once married it was just accepted as a given that you were assigned to your spouse for life, and as a team you focused on how your little family fared with everyone else's family. Each pair was two selves who worked as a unit on how the interacted with the outside world.

But really, I'm not grasping at any straws- I was born in the 80s.  I just want to have some dialogue, ideas, about how/why the institution of marriage is generally so crappy now.  If society and roles have changed, maybe marriage should change too??  I just don't know how...

...and the age group most likely to divorce at any given time is the Boomer generation, I'd say that your assumption about "traditional values" is quite unfounded.  

So, maybe legal marriage (amongst intelligent, prudent people) should not be seen as the only way to be in a committed partnership or raise children.

And that men and women love differently.  Maybe women love men for what the man can do for them, and men love women a bit deeper?  Maybe that could be true.

Random musings on this subject:

I think with any love relationship, there is a period where you both are in it for the same reasons. But over time, when the initial thrill dies off, you have to sort of look for other reasons. That's why the whole thing is just so hard. Is it possible to find someone who is just that stable, sane, rational, mature enough to find other ways to love another person even after the initial romantic thrill ride is done and reality starts creeping in.

Not all, but a few of the posts, had this ring of a person discovering himself, and that what makes him happy isn't necessarily having to put up with the challenges of a relationship. It can be a liberating thing to learn that it's okay to be by yourself and your happiness doesn't have to depend solely on another.  

...that he was happily married because he loved his wife, was determined to stay married to his wife for life, had accepted that no human endeavor is perpetually perfect or good or even OK, that HIS attitude and actions toward his wife made a significant difference in his wife's attitude and actions toward him, that in the bad times of the marriage relationship he had learned to endure and work to make the marriage better/tolerable, that he did not associate his overall wellbeing with his current level of satisfaction with his wife or marriage...it was just one piece of his life...like work.

What's the purpose of needing each other when you don't even want each other? Miserable marriages aren't anything new. It's just more acceptable now, in America at least, to end them.  

forced to accept the sometimes horror of a bad marriage as in abuse and were pressured to stay. Thank the universe that things have changed and women have become more independent and can stand on their own two feet to gt away from such a thing.

..."But to be perfectly honest, most of the women I've dated have kind of killed off that part of me, little by little"...

Personally I have a theory that all relationships become friendships after 10 years.  This is just based on knowing so many people who started wanting out or wanting to cheat after 10 years (myself included).

It's a story as old as time.

and starts out with blaming all women. Then asking guys opinions here is also not a valid sample of all marriages. While I have no idea of how many guys here are happy with their marriage  but some of them are and have stated so.
However this topic should get lots of entries

I don't know if they were "allowed" but they certainly did. Been there and oggled them,

I thought after 30+ years I had avoided the problem. Nope. Wife saw how much $ she could get. Made decent income on her own. Kids were grown and we had grown spart. Boom! Married to a signed decree in 6 week

Or maybe I am just projecting, because six months of "togetherness" with the same person just seems like an eternity to me, and I bet your "expiration date" is more like 6 weeks than 6 months. Tell me I'm wrong. lol

People (or the ones that tend to be romantic idealists) expect more out of their marriage partner than ever before: best friend, confidant, shared breadwinner-homemaker, passionate lover, soul mate; basically someone to fill one's every want and need.  

A lot of times women will give off the vibe that they want a romantic guy to sweep them off their feet ... write them pretty love songs, buy they flowers and basically give them the world.  

The problem being that passion and desire require a certain amount of distance and mystery, some space to nurture and explore fantasy. The couples that have the most sexual problems are probably the ones who are around each other all the time and only see their partner as that slob on the couch.

1. Communication was no problem before getting married. I said as much sex as I want whenever I wanted it. She said ok! Her libido changed after 15 years. Who thinks to ask about that? Can you predict such a thing 15 years out?

How so?

The fairer sex will always gravitate towards tribal leaders. This has been true since the days of cave men. Those who hunted and came back alive with food got the women of their choice.  

Marriages were plenty unhappy back in the day, the difference being that women were extremely limited in their choices and men could seek extramarital adventure with impunity. Take off the rose-tinted glasses.

But that's for another day.  

on a very very very simplistic note, marriage is an institution created by women for women...

Women love an unpredictable guy sometimes.  A guy who you're not sure is going to bring you flowers or punch you in the face.  Lol.  I kid, I kid.  But men like bitches sometimes too.  If a girl is 80/20, sweet/bitch, he's in heaven because shes usually great but will go BSC on his ass the second he fcks up.  No one likes a doormat.

I don't want a doormat for an SO, and neither do any women I know. Some guys mistake being a doormat for being a "nice guy" and mistake having a spine with being a "bad boy"  

Unfortunately.

Mangina was so overused I felt it was time for a new term. Plus as a contest it's every bit as hotly contented as the SPOTY's were the first couple of years.

My stepmother has walked all over my dad since the day they married.

I guess you must be older than Methuselah since YOU know that marriage has ALWAYS been craptastic.

Of roses......th ladt 24 years has been a hell of a ride....and i wouldnr change it for anything.......my wife has always been the ONE....even when i had my mid life crisis and strayed she was always right there by my side......some days are harder than others...you just have to decide whats important to you....and to me that is the love and trust of the greatest petson in my life........divorce was never an option for me.....but i say if you are miserable (i wasnt) in your marriage then get out.....dont cause someone you claim to love unnecessary pain....i strive everyday to make it up to my wife because she didnt deserve what i did to her......some people are miserable no mate what and cant be happy....tjose people should never get married. ....both male and female.

You make some good points. I will never understand the attraction an asshole has...all I want to do to them is well...it's not very nice.  

I am not the typical female as far as that goes.

What many miss is marriage is work if you want it to work. I read all those guys complain about the long hours they spent at work, but how many hours did they spend working on their marriages. How many of them still dated their wives after they said "I do"? How many dressed up to impress like they did when they were dating when going on these date? How many made sure their was both set aside family time and couple time? And I am not talking about just sex but time to set goals, share dreams, celebrate each others victories and morn defeats. To talk about what is real in the relationship. Most people don't. They take each other for granted or worse become competitive.

Fuckin Starbucks. Raising their rates faster than hookers.

Nice guys can and do come out on top all the time. Sure, some women gravitate towards jerks, and the jerks are welcome to those women. The kind of women I'm attracted to appreciate "nice" guys. Not pushovers, mind you. And not always predictable. But not aloof, or selfish.  

One of the very few social situations where I can be as nice as I want ... and the nicer I am, the more ass I get!  

Dear Hbyist+Truth:
Now I see what Maggie Mcneill was going through in her recent marriage.  I also appreciate from Eric's lyrics what would be transpiring with you when your in a session with a client and an old SO is trying to get your attention.  " If your wondering why your knocking and I ain't opening up,it's because I loving your best friend". First you don't want to be a best friend and because of the lack of attention you begin to seek your need elsewhere with a slight bonus.

Real in the fact that if you are nice you will be welcomed back and NOT just tolerated for the money (I don't care to do that but some do). In this business IMO, a nice guys goes a long way and gets more. Assholes tend to get black listed or never seen again...info from chatting with other hookers.

hat I'm talking about is the illusion that being nice and gentlemanly will result in getting laid more.

And if she does, she deserves all she gets and will get no sympathy from me.  

I am convinced that the two of you would just cancel each other out.

Finally!

You are correct in answering c.  Timing is everything.   I know men who let their ego lead and file for divorce too quickly without understanding the financial blows they can take in the family court.   In my mind, why divorce when you can hobby until the time is right for you.  It is a man's world.  No woman can make you unhappy.