All,

 
Please to excuse this long post. As I drink my coffee and plan my day, a few thoughts to share.
 
With the change in law perhaps coming, and paranoia sweeping the sites IMO it important to maybe look at this piece by piece. I think when everyone does this perhaps the paranoia can calm down a bit.
 
To begin, being Escort is not against any law that I know of. Of course in some places they may have try to make law an Escort must have a license, it is still not against law. If there are places that have simple law against being escort, there is still no law against paying for time and companionship for consulting service. As long as the buying and selling of sex is not a part of the arrangement, it is legal. Not here to debate what is or is not implied, just basic fact.
 
From provider point of view many minor and some major changes will be made. Internet companies will make personal decisions as to who or what is acceptable risk for them to be compliance of law. Many will take very little risk, some will have more liberal policy. So if a provider web site looks like a sell sex services that is bigger risk than if a provider is a sexy looking tour guide, or lifestyle companion or consultant of some type. Those internet companies that are based off shore will perhaps have a bigger tolerance for a more vanilla provider websites.  
 
Like many other providers smarter than me, I start to re-write my website to be as sexy and fun as possible without spell out the obvious. It will take a little time but it is a necessary thing. I think many of you on here will see a big shift like that to come. I will not go specifics of changes but I am in process, enough said.
 
I think many of clients will not be happy what it takes to schedule an appointment but it is going to be necessary. For instance screening going to become much more intrusive for potential clients who are not well establish or cannot prove they are. But screening will take place and there will be providers available. This "hobby" is not going to go away, it will simply adapt.
 
Correspondence of almost any type will soon require full screening before any correspondence, For may providers that is already the way it is. Those clients that like and prefer or are too lazy to make advance appointments will find short time notice to be scarce. This will slow down the "hobby" but is not going to end it.  
 
The new law does not target the provider nearly as much as it target the internet company that hosts the information or even the email and data of a suspected or obvious SW. Providers will migrate their websites, communication and data to companies that are outside US, have no Server in US, have no US owners and where such services are perfectly legal. I think it would be no different now than before. The government can already get any information with "just cause" from any US company. The new laws simply allow them broader access. The hobby is not going to go away.  
 
The new law may force providers to supply real information to have an account.......if US based. But the new law cannot force providers to supply real information to non US internet companies. If the non US company allows fees to be paid for account by anonymous payment form, then they have only that to share, and nothing else.  It has only the anonymous information the provider used to set up the account. The "hobby" is not going to go away.
 
Personally I do see some positive sides to all of this. It requires all providers to become more professional and cautious. It requires much better screening and less time wasting between provider and client. It will help weed out the less serious and time waster provider and client alike. None of us like having to work more to accomplish our goal. Does not matter if goal is that of client or that of provider. All of us will see changes, some good and perhaps some bad.  
 
Marketing and or advertising will change. But it will not go away. Probably will cost more because less places to advertise. Clients should be ready price increases to cover that costs. Trust me that I am not favor anything that makes require more time to schedule, more time advertise, more time for potential client find me, or more cost to run business. Doing business will be harder take more time, but business is never going to be just easy.  
 
I do not see the law change as killing "the hobby". I see it gets different and harder. We will all make adapt. How we adapt is yet be seen, but changes are already in process for many, and many more will start those changes soon. I may have more pragmatic view in long run than most.  
 
I am sure many will not agree what I say and will have many different view. Its ok. I have been wrong before, maybe wrong again, but IMO its the end of the hobby. Good luck all.

 

Christine

Because whatever product or service you advertise in the US Soil.... we must pay taxes. I have pay my taxes for years. Enough stress going on at this moment; to know have uncle Sam on our backs. So ladies, be smart, business savvy and protect yourself.  

Gentleman, now more than ever... you will have to adapt to our screen practices for everyone safety.  

V~

ChristineGFE = as usual well thought out ideas.  

As I have preached for decades, never connect a fee for any illegal act, just companionship, consulting etc.  But 96.8% of escorts are easy to bust by state prostitution laws since ads contain illegal acts.   In Scottsdale, a well-known companion was convicted by a jury for using GFE on website.   As many know I was one of the first to use the GFE phrase on the alt.sex.prostitution newsgroup with dial-up 300 baud packet readers and it had nothing to do with illegal or dangerous acts.  

The other potential problem is reviews.  I have seen them used as probable cause statemates for indictments,, even though would be almost impossible to lay a foundation to use at trial.  But they have been the starting point to get a search warrant to size phone and ISP records etc.  

Being outside the U.S. is not a solution since the law makes a foreign host liable if the ad is directed to the U.S. It is only an exemption of the ad is directed to someone where prostitution is legal.  

Sidenote to Christine. Wow, I say some recent videos of Bangkok, the airport, the overhead trains, Nana Plaza etc... I was amazed how modern it has become vs when I was there when the overhead system was just starting construction, the airport was far less modern and all the signage etc at Nana was just plain and simple.

"So if a provider web site looks like a sell sex services that is bigger risk than if a provider is a sexy looking tour guide, or lifestyle companion or consultant of some type."

This is how it used to be anyway. Escorts were considered companions and there was a nod and a wink that you would get a happy ending. We always tell newbies to never say anything in an E mail, or a text that references any p4p, yet the ads escorts have been posting these past years have been getting more and more open about what they are offering attached to a list of dollar amounts. GFE $400, PSE $500, greek $100 extra. In some cases, TER has removed images posted to an add with a whoops! because it crossed the line. Considering this has always been illegal, why did everyone get so comfortable ignoring their own advice for so long? Escorts tell johns they will end correspondents if the guy discusses sexual activity, yet their own public escort ad openly illustrated sexual activity for payment. WTF? Guys were getting so lazy that they would just post in a regional board that they were going to be in town and said exactly what he was looking for in his post. Why not just put a sign on your head that says Im a john and Ill be in town between x and x looking to pay a young asian girl for sex LOL. WTF?! Why not just do a search quietly and read the reviews, and contact the women you're interested in privately? Like it should be! LOL  

"Those clients that like and prefer or are too lazy to make advance appointments will find short time notice to be scarce. This will slow down the "hobby" but is not going to end it"

This has also been something experienced mongers have been telling newbies for years over and over and over. Don't send out multiple requests, tying up women screening you, to simply take the first one to respond. There have been many threads started over this stuff from both sides over the years to vent frustration with it. The issue with mens laziness, not doing their research, trying to force dates to happen, or posting their shopping list on a local board is all careless and openly announces activities that is supposed to be discreet. Short notice hookups will not be scarce when you contact a local girl you saw before. It may make it harder for travelling girls, or new clients to meet new girls, but I always allow the process to happen when meeting someone new? My advice to anyone having trouble getting dates is to allow 2-3 days for initial contact of a new provider and screening. As far as pre screening prior to contact, I have used P411 for so long, I can't remember the last time I messaged a provider who didn't have access to my reference list and profile. Almost 10 years now. I always book a week out or more when I see a travelling provider is coming to town. It isn't like her calendar hides her schedule. (If she actually uses the feature).  

"Personally I do see some positive sides to all of this. It requires all providers to become more professional and cautious"

Correct, like it used to be before the careless, brazen actions that had become normal these past few years LOL. No one in my generation posted their illicit activities on social media. That is a new phenomenon brought about after facebook came into existence. The funny thing about not having as many places to advertise...think of it this way...not a lot of us guys ever trusted those fringe sites anyway! I used to laugh at the local board posts when a guy would post a link to BP asking if the girl is legit. The answers were always the same for the most part. Use P411 and TER. If she doesn't exist there, it's at your risk. Cityvibe often stole womens pictures and created accounts without their knowledge. I have read numerous posts by providers telling Johns to look at their webpage for the most recent photos and information. I have only ever used P411 and TER, because I don't trust the other sites anyway. Just because you post an ad on a free site, doesn't mean anyone is finding it without the link from your TER page anyway, or that they even trust it, so nothing has changed about that for me at all. P411 still looks the same and the visiting profiles are there with the list of cities including dates. The woman I wanted to see has a website and the rates were listed.  

It isn't the end of anything accept stupid, careless behavior. People were getting waaaay to comfortable openly posting illegal shit for all to see. This brings us all back down to earth and back to being discreet like it should have stayed all along. When something is illegal, its a good idea not to broadcast it openly on the internet without discretion.  

Just sayin'

In total agreement but could not spell check and grammar check enough to say that as well as you do.  

ChristineGFE

Everyone should note:
In the budget bill - Feds can pay award for turning in foreign violators of U.S. prostitution law.
I just posted details on the legal forum. Seems all foreign websites at risk.

I think that it's going to depend on how hungry ladies get if their business significantly slows down as result of advertising difficulties.  

This going to be interesting to watch.  Perhaps it will be you that adapts?

This will not be a problem for established hobbyist who already have their "to do" list and screening credentials in place.  It will make it very difficult for newbies on both sides.

I foresee ladies using mailing list more to supplement or even replace their on-line calendar.

I'm sure this will be a goldmine for some entrepeneurs who offer replacements for the old-school ways that will drop off.  Cars replaced horses, cell phones replaced land lines, in hobbyland internet replaced street corners.  

What's next?  Just wait and see.

-- Modified on 3/25/2018 6:55:32 PM

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What's the the bet that there's going to be to be an upswing in the number of roofied johns in bars. The The fools will come out of the woodwork.

Dave,

 
Thank you very much for the nice things you say about Bangkok, however I am from Manila and really know very little about Bangkok.

 
I not trying to be negative, but I think you missing some of my point. My biggest point is that though the US laws may enable US courts to get information from a out of country companies, NO LAW requires all those off shore companies collect verified real information. Those companies can allow membership based on whatever level of authentic they desire. For instance there are many off shore hosting plans that do not require verified account information. There are so many host option that you can pay, bitcoin, cash card, anonymous prepaid ways. Even a few that you can simply send cash if you willing risk it. Point is its not difficult to build and host website off shore and its in fake name.

 
On this side of ocean simply buy burn phone, pay cash re-up cards and buy both voice and data, then use the hotspot for internet. Again it all anonymous. Finally the weak point will be screening. So providers must screen better and clients must accept what it takes to get screened. Trace IP address and ISP reporting will not matter if it is all anonymous through hot spot. Of course can trace data by ping or calls or triangulation so I have heard but thats things i don't know much about. And I think if a single non agency Independent is worth that trouble its because they are doing far more than simple escort.

 
All that said, the US can request, warrant etc all info it wants. As long as it is all set up anonymous thats fine. The real issue is cant be lazy anymore. The best tools not always the easy tools. It will require more effort, time and care to set up and maintain. The real unknown is if, when and how the US may block access to sites for whatever reason they desire. Most people here do not ever live in a country like China that regulate the internet. That is what we need worry about most.  

 
I hope we can agree disagree, and hope I did not offend.  But I would maintain that not all is lost.  

 
ChristineGFE

There will exceptions to everything. Just as there are those exceptions now. Of course I will adapt, and perhaps so will you.  
Best luck and wishes.

 
ChristineGFE

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"Guys were getting so lazy that they would just post in a regional board that they were going to be in town and said exactly what he was looking for in his post".  

Post in question:  Looking for a Natural Provider.  Dude mentions he was looking for "full bush".  Not very discreet, and he probably could have found that info searching reviews without that much trouble.  Worse yet, several ladies responded to his post on the board, rather than by PM.  

If nothing else, this FOSTA thing is a wake up call reminding us that Big Brother is watching, is looking to crack down, and that we need to be careful in order for all of us to enjoy this game, while maintaining as great a margin for safety as possible.

Point and click has become the defaut M.O on both sides  for a long time.  Those   dudes and dudettes who    operate this way want to sail down  a nice  paved  multi laned hooker highway.      

If they have their way TER will institute a GPS feature for them as they can't  even READ a map anymore.

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ChristineGFE- I don't think we really disagree with anything.   I thought you had mentioned BKK but realize from Manila (probably modernized also since I was there). I think I was thinking of a dancer I recently met that worked both in Manila,  BKK and Pattaya.  

I agree with the good ideas you discussed but wonder how many will do all that.  I predict there will be more demand for sugar sites etc. I am looking more at younger women older men sites as I enjoy more a casual relationship more than just escort sex.  

The problem, of course, is the basis prostitution law sadly affirmed by the 9th Circuit.  The weak voice of those in support of private consenting adult sexwork has been overwhelmed by the well-financed anti groups while there has been very little support due to the in the closet nature of the business for sexworkers to point out how the illegal status greatly increases risks for all.  

The propaganda that all escorting is the abuse of women, is believed since there is almost no organization other than a few to organize workers and be heard in the media.   As someone said we need a million escort march on Washington to get the positive aspects of sexwork and harm reduction when legal known.  I also believe much of sexwork is positive and therapeutic in many cases as is sex itself.

Good for you and the Information , Good Luck to all of Us. !!  💋👄