TWO WORDS: search button

the part where he's supposed to admit he is a cop if you ask. That's true, right? LOL!  

All they have to do is prove intent. You don't have to exchange money, fuck, touch, get undressed, nothing. Depending on what the nature of your communication was prior to meeting, or even just what may be insuniated by the girl in her ad and/or website, just showing up/ answering the door can get you cuffed.

Remember this - "intent" is descibed by law as the state of one's mind at the time one carries out an action, or the purpose with which one does an act.  
 
NOW - explain to me how grabbing a cock or tit is going to do anything to help you. Think about it. Doing so is actually counter to the intended purpose; a sexual touch can be construed as intent.    

You all like to think there is some trick to being above the law, but there isn't.

Well...except for having a good lawyer on retainer - in my experience, having a good lawyer trumps having a badge.  

Does the law enforcement grope test really protect hobbyist or provider in the case of a sting?  That is, the quick groping of each other's genitals is supposedly not allowed by a real cop, so wouldn't be allowed by one posing as one.

What's the consensus?  Any attorneys out there?

the grope test means NOTHING!  

They can go through with the whole act and still arrest you or have a CI go through with it and still arrest you.  

Nothing is guaranteed, but Stick with well reviewed ladies who screen

Vice will always lie in their reports about what happened behind closed doors so this test is not at all reliable. Sometimes they even have sex with a provider (usually a bbbj) before they make the arrest and that never gets entered into the report.

VERIFY!

As stated LE would lie in a report, and if it were a female UC vs a john scenario you would probably catch an assault on an officer charge. If they wanted to be real dicks, ever see where the cops bust some one up and they catch an assault on an officer charge. You no plead guilty to the first charge we will drop the second and the first charge is usually a lesser one.

...a well-known house in NYC where clients are greeted at the door by whoever's on duty and she unzips their fly and gives their cock a quick suck.  Does that make it better?  No doubt.  Does that make it an effective LE test.  NOT!

What other protection is there when you want to TOFTT on an unrated provider??
Another thing I wonder about is this idea of putting the $$ in an envelope labeled "Gift".  Supposedly, this implies no quid pro quo for illicit sex, but I don't know.  One thing it also could do is give a scamming provider a perfect license to take the money and run.  After all, that's what's written on the envelop!

I am an attorney and I can tell you cops lie all the time.  the grope test proves nothing

Don't mark the envelope I never mention price or say a word about the envelope. once thought of saying found this in front of the door must be yours, sounded dumb so I said best left un mentioned. If they are out to arest someone they will shit you could be a registerd hotel guest and walk by the room. Thats enough for probable cause some where, this makes TOFFT something I can't afford.

There is no protection against TOFTT regarding unreviewed ladies.That is why some of the above replies specify go with a well-reviewed ladies that screen and you will not have a issue.As far an envelope or no envelope if the lady is LE you are going with them.

is to see of the unrated provider tries to interject any conversation with references to sexual activity and/or money.  If so, that is often a give-away.

Also, avoid incall locations at cheap motels where the door faces out into a parking lot.  LE likes those kinds of set-ups for the visability they provide.

It is our favorite activity besides coffee and donuts.  

It is the do nuts special.

toftt requires good communication skills. I've tofft a number of times. I usually spend a fair amount of time exchanging emails in this scenario. And most importantly I don't find the escorts on BP.

That's the first question an attorney would ask.

Just wondering, because there are frequent threads about arrests and LE, but no one ever says they have first hand knowledge of what they are stating.  Not that simply saying that would make it true, but usually its a "friend" that this has happened to, or they read a news report somewhere and they believe that.  I find most of the stories floating around actually involve drugs or violence or public nuisance or something in addition to the hobby, that triggers a compliant that involves LE.

and the bottom line is this.
If they walk int here with intent to arrest you, you are going to get arrested. Period. End of story game over.
They do not need "proof", they don't need contact, and you don't need to take the money.When you do the right things, like not touching the money, being NICE to the cops but not coming across as if you have any valuable info, and not verbally or texting or emailing sex in exchange for money....what it WILL do for you is allow you to fight it in court and not get convicted. You may then have the arrest expunged later.
But if you are trying to avoid an arrest you have to make sure they don't WANT you to be begin with.
The police can and make it easier for you NOT to get convicted if you aren't a pain in the ass.
But make no mistake, if you see someones name in the paper because the got arrested, its because they DIDNT roll. If they did, you would never know abbot the arrest at all.

If you ever find yourself in this situation, you can be assured that the police report will say whatever it needs to say to nail you in court.  It may or may not bear any resemblance to what actually happened behind closed doors, and you'll be shocked when you read it.

This is why it's so funny to read about all the clever little ploys people come up with (read the Legal Board) thinking they've found a way to outsmart LE.  LE does what it wants and you're always going to lose in a your word against their word scenario.

In my county, there was a vice cop that was having sex with providers before he busted them.  He was even calling them after the fact asking for more sex in exchange for cutting them some slack.  Exactly how is that legal?  But that's what you're dealing with, so don't kid yourself.

My former ATF (retired) gave a BBBJCIMNQNS to a cop before he arrested her. He claimed he had to wait until she asked to be paid. The grope test is a myth. The only protection from LE is screening and the odds.


Not a lawyer.

You can use the reference system like the ladies do but this can be time consuming as you must contact them and screen them in some fashion.

You can get friends if vice. And friends with several ladies in the business and use information from such friends. Cops often talk to much and ladies talk too.

There is anther way but I am not telling as it is wrong to screen this way and can earn you a place on one of the blacklists.

But not ever talking about sex and money is very important.

An interesting choice of words.


Thank You
2011 = 28

I'm a newbie but didn't realize cops could take it that far. Hard to imagine that they suffer no penalty /punishment or charges at all for the completion of the act. That is unbelievable.

Oops. Forgot my extra alias.

....if cops are known to lie whenever it suits them, why the big deal about openly discussing sex acts for money when calling providers?

From now on, I think I'll lead off with, "Hi, I hear you do one hell of a bareback blow job and intercourse for 300 bucks. When can you schedule me? And by the way, if I was a cop, I'd just lie and tell the judge you told me this. I wouldn't actually ruin the case by scaring you off. So you've got nothing to worry about, darling."

horny. LOL

1) do your homework - check reviews, verification sites first
2) failing (1), if trying someone without ample verification under (1), then look for longevity of ads - its not likely that a sting or RO would be able to last several months or longer without being flagged somewhere;
(3) use tineye.com to check for frauds
(4) avoid any discussion of money and sex - if a rate for companionship, massage, body rub is posted, just pay it and then you have to go with the flow and see what happens - but better to get a bad massage for $$ than to discuss and be busted.  If you read news reports of stings, there is often a mention of customers who showed up and were not arrested because they "only wanted a massage" - come on, do you really beleive that's all they wanted - they were just smart enough not to verbalize other desires.  If you go with the flow and it starts out as just a massage  - unlikely its LE - they have better things to do than spend an hour giving a massage - no talk, they'll find a way to get you out quickly.
(5) engage in a DFK up front - very few LE, particularly women, will do that with a stranger, and there is nothing illegal about DFK.

Now most of the time they don't arrest anyone for prostitution or soliciting in my area instead the give a ticket to appear and take your photo. They only arrest you in Utah if you piss off the cop or have priers on your record. Now it may be that in your state if you roll you keep your face out of the papers but here it is a sure thing if the actually arrest you.

You could be arrested for anything at any time.  It doesn't mean you are guilty and even if you are, there's a very good change you will not be convicted.  

A lot of people here talk about LE like they have spent serious time in the big house.  Me thinks they spend serious time reading detective magazines.  Which I'm not even sure they still publish those rags, now that I think about it.

Do you recommend p411?

That "gift" thing is really funny. Do you think that drug dealers and bookies are arrested because they're not smart enough to use code words? I could call it 100 clams, 100 kisses, whatever; it's still illegal. If someone buys $1000 worth of pot, would it not be illegal if the plants were labeled "oregano?"