So, here's the deal, I've been seeing two SBs since Christmas  (note on ratings below: I don't give 10s, since I can't afford Kate Upton/Sasha Grey/Tori Black).  

The two SBs still in play:

SB4 : a spectacular 20 year-old brunette, (9/10 scale); also volatile & waspish.

SB5-HotLatina:  24 years old (8/10 scale), sweet & lovely, best-in-bed ever.  

Here's something I haven't mentioned before, but here it is:  these young SBs bleed. I mean they both bleed every time. I did them both (separately) in one hotel room with two beds.  Afterwards the sheets on both beds were spotted & smeared with blood.  OMG, I felt sorry for the housekeeper who had to clean my room.  I left a $10 bill on the pillow of the messiest bed when I left.  

I tried seeing the two SBs on alternate weeks, but the temptation was too great. I'd often bang them both the same week at $400 a throw.  You do the math.  I couldn't pick just one, it was impossible to afford two, and my bank account had been moving in the wrong direction since Christmas.  So I did the logical thing: I dropped them both, lol.   I sent the text below to both SB4 & SB5 last week:

Z:  Hey, I'm dropping out of the scene for a while.  I hope you find the perfect gentleman. love, --z

The two responses were totally opposite of what I expected:  

SB5-HotLatina:  Just like that?  Thanks a bunch.  

SB4: Can we still meet if it were cheaper?

Note the cold fury of SB5-HotLatina.  But SB4 wants to keep the ball in play.  My response to SB4:

Z:  We can still meet, but I can only give 300 and you'll have to come to my place.

SB4:  I can do that.  

This is a significant savings--$100 off the allowance plus no hotel room:  $100 + $70 = $170 less per week.  

And so, last week SB4 arrives on my doorstep.  She's dressed in jeans, A&F hoodie, & ball cap, like Natalie Portman avoiding the paparazzi.   She steps through my doorway, takes off her cap & her light brown hair cascades down to her shoulders.  She's breathtaking.  I take her to my bed, strip her down and fuck her.  And she bleeds on the bed, only now I'm at home.  I have an SO. so this is risky business, oh yeah.   Afterwards, I launder all the sheets & pillow cases, open all the windows to air out the bedroom, etc.    

 And that's where we are.  I'm fucking the spectacular SB4 at a P411 rate of $300 a throw with no ticking clock. I suppose there's a strategy here that I didn't plan out but rather stumbled into:  Bid high, bed the SB, maintain for a few months, then drop the allowance & see what happens.  That sounds manipulative, but I'm sure what you just read above is fairly typical:

(1) SD thinks he can afford an SB
(2) SD finds out he can't afford her.
(3)  SD lowers bid
(4) SB either bails or takes the lower allowance.  

 Good luck out there.  --z

*shakes my head*

If you can't afford to play then don't, that woman needs the money for bills or possibly to take care of a child. If you have a SO then don't take the SB or anyone else back to your place. As far as the blood goes, what do you want any of us to say? Maybe the blood is from the skin on your dick sloughing off from a disease.

I do not and will not treat my SB this way. All things considered she probably gets more than the agreement, but I'm not bitching about it because I get all that I am looking for and a hell of a lot more.

I keep hearing you and the China girl say that it's so much different, but I'm sooooooo not feeling it.

Yep, you are a manipulator,  but there are MANY 'regular' hobbyists who are manipulative.  (Last week I had a guy ask me if I do 1/2 hours.  I said no, so he went ahead booked an hour for the following day.  Two hours before the appointment time, he canceled because his brother supposedly had been in an accident.  An hour after the original scheduled appointment time he texted that he thought he could get away from the hospital for 30 minutes if I would do a half hour for him.  I said no.)

And I know plenty of "low volume by default" (to quote London - and yes, I'm stealing that line!) escorts who will negotiate, all claims to the contrary notwithstanding.  Luckily I am low volume by choice, NOT default.  

Same shit, different day.


-- Modified on 2/15/2013 8:50:56 PM

I am not in that market so don't need to deal with guys like that. I am too fucking old and tired to play those games. I prefer the old folks home reading to ancient guys or doing the "fish" and laying there moribund and letting them do their "thing" and still collecting...lol

This guy is almost as full of shit as the Udo guy.  His narcissistic (which he proudly acknowledges) bullshit on this board just screams of a guy with way too much time on his hands and too little money to blow.

If I wasn't swamped doing real work right now...I might have replied to this jackass as well.

But I figured I'd rather babble with a gal who gets this whole deal than some asswipe that is so pathetically in need of attention.

Forget the fish...I think that's even tougher to do.  Unless its with mrfish(er)  

Just for shits and giggles....what type of johnnie boy, or trick, or viper...or client is this POS?  I think maybe he's deserving of some new title?  And it sure as hell isn't a Sugar Daddy...this jackass has no clue what a real Sugar Daddy is all about.  Fucking nearly pre-pubescent girls doesn't make this moron a Sugar Daddy!  Especially with his "discount a rama" mentality.

-- Modified on 2/15/2013 5:26:15 PM

she's a pro.

My experience was a monthly allowance &  dinner, shopping, sex or whatever happened thru out the month. there was no, "are u ok w/ $300/hr?"

Sorry I stressed you so much w/ my comment. It's just a discussion board.

Sure, SB4 is a pro. So is SB5.  And so are you--even during your 'SB phase'.   Who's kidding who?
It's sex for money, with very few exceptions.  And those exceptions are a Queen-Takes-Pawn arrangement.  I don't do those arrangements, sorry.  --z  

It means she just took her pill.
Do you know many latin people?  Latin women have a short fuse..And they don't take shit from men.
Especially Cuban women.

Cullin, you may be right.  And a young SB/provider is more likely to bleed.  But I think just the mention of blood has the sharks circling.  regards.  --z

there was no sex for pay arrangement. There was a monthly allowance arrangement.

I didn't have sex (meaning no blow jobs too) w/ my first SD for 3yrs. I was still his SB. 2nd SD, we didn't have sex for 3 months. 3rd one, we had sex after the first week, but I controlled it and could go w/out it for months, but Still I was their arm trophies, sugar.

When u start to discuss how much $x for sex, it's not Sugar World. When u discuss allowance for whatever might happen (not necessarily sex) it's Sugar World. but maybe it's just different, from my experience. that doesn't mean I speak for everyone, but what u describe to me is straight money for sex. cut & dry. & I know pros who use sugar daddy sites b/c they need extra money & pretend to go the sugar route.

whatevr works for u, enjoy.


-- Modified on 2/15/2013 5:51:32 PM

you have way too much time on your hands.

But please continue to regale us with your bullshit stories as we all in turn tell you what a POS you are. Hell I might actually hire a 'tool' so you can be right about something.

I hope you had a wonderful Valentine's Day with your hands for company.

Aria

My only qualm with the sugar bowl is the pseudo NSA clause. Everyone in it gets attached and they know it. EVERYONE gets hurt when it's terminated. Unless you stay friends after. I have never had an SD send me a "break-up" text, out of the blue. Such things are done over tea/coffee/lunch, and done with respect.

What Zangari refuses to see is that his mongering at a cheap price, is not the sugar bowl.

I would be appalled if I had an SD treat me the way he treats these SB's. I would also probably alert everyone to his malignant presence as well.

SB's do not do "appointments". Is the thing. SB's do NOT use fake names.

SB's do NOT screen. Everything is generally more on the up and up. You don't invent a personal to play in the sugar bowl. My SD's know everything about me.

I totally understand where you are coming from. If you haven't been an SB, there isn't a difference.
Also, I am not "the China girl". I am not Chinese. You can refer to me as China Rose, or China. Everyone else seems to.

cars for the week, whatever.
Shopping and more, not $300 for a sex arrangement or appointment.

& no I didn't screen. I met them like any other real life boyfriend in person, not over the internet, waiting for their references to get back to me for them. lol

-- Modified on 2/15/2013 6:54:42 PM

*wipes your chin* You're frothing at the mouth, dear.

I am on TER because I like to read the drivel. Notice I have no reviews.

I have never said I was not a prostitute. Neither did WOTW.

I don't need to pretend to be a prostitute, because I am one. I don't need to pretend to be a sugar baby, because I am one also.

You're the only one pretending, boo. You like to play SD, when you're really just P4P. Your style of sugar lacks all the depth, and beauty of the sugar world. You also sound like you wouldn't make a good client, either.

There is nothing pretentious about say that what you are doing isn't sugar.

They must be out on the hunt.

What you can't understand is that I:

a) Act differently with an SD vs a client (you do not)
b) do not treat my SD's like clients (you treat your sugars like pros)
c) I make claims about real sugar because it is different from what you are doing.

You can't seem to get over the fact that I am an SB and an escort. But you are not an SD.

Why does it bother you that you aren't a Sugar Daddy?

Yes, I'm on a fuck board now because I sell sex for money aka I'm what you would call a hooker. Likewise, you'd be called a trick, not Sugar /daddy. I'm not pretending to be something else, but I once was a Sugar Baby so I can speak from experience when saying you're not a SD. Otherwise, you'd be a BS one when attempting to see a lady for $300 for a sex arrangement. lol That has nothing to do w/ pretension. That has to do w/ standards. My sugar daddies were $5k at minimum/month.

-- Modified on 2/15/2013 7:20:18 PM

The girls hold the book.
If you want to open it. Be nice.

Nobody is putting sugar babes on a pedestal.

Just because you are not an SD, doesn't mean sugar babies are better than escorts. You're the only one thinking that way.

Just like the hobby world has it's rules and norms, so does the sugar bowl. To be clear, the rules and expectations are different. But one is NOT better than the other.

I just don't understand why Zangari insists on playing the sugar bowl with hobbyist rules?

They are on a prostitution board to talk about prostitutes, courtesans, escorts, and streetwalkers.

They don't need your pseudo sugar drivel. Then men on this board also seem to feel you should keep your cheap exploits to yourself.

Try pulling your tricks in the real sugar community. I welcome you. You may have my SA blog handle if you'd like. Just email me, boo.

You're creating a phony standard on what 'Sugar' means.  Here's something you should think about: not every SB is like you.  They have different expectations than you.  That doesn't make them 'wrong' or 'fake'.  I have yet to see one SB I've bedded on P411 or TER or Backpage or any other provider site.  

Yet here you are, a hooker who pretends to 'know' what the "Sugar" standard should be for everyone.  You presume too much.  I don't presume to know what kind of arrangement will make a TER brother happy. I can only tell him what has worked for me.   --z

You are one tiresome fool

and the one where you suggested I dig up the corpse of my mother and fuck her removed. You are a little baby, and I will be looking for every post of yours. You can be assured that I will be commenting and highlighting what an ass you are. You should have been man enough to leave the post up and stand behind what you said, but instead you had them removed and just look like a pussy.

Let's see if you have any thing further to say about my mother on this one.

MM

Pointing out what an asshat he is, is exactly what I did. He couldn't handle the fact I didn't "sugar"coat how I felt about him or his BS rant on being a SD so he had my reply removed. He is no SD and he is a no man, just another pathetic loser trying to get attention. I would never and have never treated a provider, SB, or Civie girl without the respect they deserve.

MM

If you do, than why do you continue to post? If you don't, see the link. BTW, why don't you give it a rest.

Hilarious.  

Thanks for the lesson in negotiating.

Guys like me have known that everything is negotiable.  Especially in a soft economic climate like we are in.

If you know how to phrase it, you can basically say anything.  If you lack the finesse to do that...well, that's your own shortcoming.

I have seen many providers at a discounted rate, but that's not something that is advertised by them or by me.  For example, I have seen a $500+/hour girl for $200 for years now, and she continues to raise her rates and get them.  It's not hard to get a lower rate if you know what you can offer them and if you are a gentleman.

But I do enjoy and chuckle reading your self-promoting SB posts.  You are such a narcissist that it is humorous.

You have anything else to say about my dead mom, you pussy.

MM

If there is no sugar you can't be a daddy. In all of your BS post on this subject has anyone ever said to you it was good information?
A SD/SB agreement is also a long term arrangement not a weekly deal. That is just paying a hooker, call it what it is otherwise you are trying to claim you are something that you are not.

MM

did nothing but ooze respect, and now the tone has changed? Here is the thing..you can BARTER better with a SB than you can with a provider. Why? Because they claim not to be hookers, and have no 'base rate." You pretty much set yourself up for that when making the jump from hooker to SB, and I've done this many times. I would never discount my minimum rate as an escort, but I WILL negotiate a monthly/weekly fee as a SB. The SB/SD relationship is actually based on negotiating, and not just at the beginning. I don't see anything so out of the ordinary about this. These women are no different than any other woman trying to get money from a guy...they are just not as smart about it.

A true SB would be totally offended at being paid by the hour...it's simply a provider concept to do it that way, as many have noted (including Z) in the past here. My SD has NEVER paid me by the hour, or even by the day...never dropped an envelope. He knows my real name, where I live, who my child is, where I went to school, and my bank account number for easy deposits.

We know EVERYTHING about each other, and have a mutual respect. He rarely ever hands me cash, unless it's to "Go get your hair, nails, shopping" done on me today, type thing. Most of the time, my bills are paid without me even knowing it. I go to pay say the cable or electric, and there is a 0 balance.  I also know his family, where they live, where he works (taking him and his partner lunch today in fact), so it is a relationship, not a pay by play thing.

-- Modified on 2/16/2013 10:27:06 AM

is it's an allowance, not a "here's $300 for sex for the hour" appointment.

You're talking straight p4p, $ for sex, not an allowance just to be your sugar, trophy, companion, and sex will happen when it does, not an hourly bases.

Correct. I don't know why it is so shocking that providers also play in the sugar world. Most of us do in fact have at least one, if not two primary SDs, that allow us to keep raising our rates, and not have to work that much. When I used to tour, it was obvious I did not have a SD, or at least not one that paid me enough to be able to stay home like I can now. It's rather simple....when a provider is working A LOT, she generally won't have a SD. When she is not working much, it is probably because she picked up an extra 2 or 3k from a SD for a few months....it comes in spurts. Though many of the SBs won't cross over to our world, we certainly take advantage of theirs whenever possible.

No one is pretending to be shit...it is what it is. It's not about anyone being "a nice girl" either...all of my SDs except for one, know I am also London Rayne. They had no problem with knowing I was also a hooker, because they know I am not banging 5 guys a week as one.

-- Modified on 2/16/2013 12:24:07 PM

LOTS of escorts are also SB - sometimes they hide it, and sometimes they don't.

And LOTS of hobbyists are on the SD sites -- in screening I uncover them ALL the time.  Literally daily.

In the end it is the same difference:  sex for pay.  They may involve different ways of getting there, and one MAY involve more non-sex time (although there are a few hobbyists that I spend lots of non-sex time with, so...), but it doesn't mean that they are very different from each other.  The two relationships are more similar than they are different.

I actually don't have a problem with Z or his posts -- I just want everyone to acknowledge that it is not like we're dealing with two different worlds here.  Not even close.

-- Modified on 2/16/2013 11:40:27 AM

-- Modified on 2/16/2013 11:43:17 AM

I am fully in agreement with the end result...sex for pay, regardless of the context. All I am saying is that when I deal with a SD, I am not offended by negotiations...as a hooker, it pisses me off to no end lol.

But, most REAL sugar daddies, very well DO treat SBs, this way...on a pedestal I mean. My escort clients treat me like a fk and dinner break, then don't call me again til they want more sex...I speak to my SD every DAY, about anything and everything. There is a huge difference in how the two treat provider and SB. Now, if you are an escort client and a SD, I can see how the two would get mixed up, but most SDs that I have seen are NOT escort clients. They don't post on review boards or see mainstream hookers at all, or not what they know of. Most would cut off the relationship if they found out their SB was advertising as a provider.

You go girl, lol. Yes, anyone who has to take less money than their quoted rate, is not getting it from anywhere else. When you see me dropping my rates or running specials every other week, you'll know I am not making the money I once claimed to be making from a SD. Wait for that shit lol.

ZZZZZZZ ...RIP

Seriously...that shit is uncalled for.

and whatever happens, happens.

But keep on believing your a real SD if that makes you feel good. One day you'll wake and realize that you're nothing more than a man who pays for sex by the hour. no need to feel ashamed, own it instead of falsely labeling yourself as a SD!!!!

Like I said, this is a massive revelation for you.

I'm not surprised.

Read my other post.  I'm not advocating beating you up, but I am saying that with this machismo you exude behind your computer monitor and your internet muscles...well, one day you might get an ass-beating from someone.

Remember, at some point, some girl found out some information about you in order to schedule with you.  How do you know the sugar baby who you pissed off, or the person who you insulted on the other side, isn't a little off-kilter and might just make your life a little more difficult?

Conflict is just fine by me, but keep it to the issues and argue those things as opposed to resorting to personal attacks.

Like I said, the rest of us have figured out that everything is negotiable.  You just learned that.  Great...there's always room on the short bus for one more.

And certainly in this world of P4P, almost everything is.  Of course you can go to the most extreme case and talk about taking another life for money, but even history has shown that there are many that will do that for a price, too.

In the world of P4P, nearly everything is negotiable.  Maybe you can't get a $500 girl down to $300, but you can negotiate more time, more services, a volume discount, etc.  It's certainly not revolutionary, and not worthy of a "hey, guys, this is how you do this" post.  I mean, if you think that this is something groundbreaking, you are a total idiot.

You just lack the skill set to be able to negotiate.  That's what I do for a living, buddy.  That's what pays the bills.  Maybe you deliver mail or something.  In my line of work, there is always negotiating, and you can nearly always get some kinda wiggle room.  Guys like you who think it's revolutionary just don't know how to play the game.

Which, of course, doesn't surprise me.  Especially when you have to put up such a simple-minded post about, "This is how I got one SB to lower her rate to me," and when you retort and go for the lowest possible blow by insulting a responder by telling him you will fuck his dead mom.

Nearly everything is negotiable.  Don't hate the game because you can't play it.

Here is exactly what it said:

Remember that you have been screened by providers on this site, so chances are good that someone knows your real name and info.

Not that I encourage violence in any way.  Or outing you, either.

I'm just saying that you oughta think twice, because while guys like MM seem to be rational and cool people, one day you might offend the wrong person, and the consequences might be more dire.

Let this be clear:  I am not threatening you or suggesting that anyone out you, beat you up, etc.  But that shit is completely uncalled for.

I'm betting you wouldn't have the stupidity to say that to someone's face in real life.

And I'm pretty sure that your precious SBs would leave your ass if they knew that you were a sociopath.

I can admit when I'm wrong.  You should try it sometime.