As previously stated our society puts so much emphasis on fidelity and it seems no matter the starting point of belief, everyone is subject to it from the porn stars to the evangelists.
Lately there have been more than a few posts about the promises made, trust broken, etc. and made by the unlikeliest people.
I would remind you all of the promises made, as in all of life, there are two who make it. The promise of fidelity is rarely broken unilaterally. That promise is to each other, and if one partner strays, there seems to be little interest in self examination on the offended partners side. Why is it that one partners libido can fall off to a point of not wanting to care for the other, but the expectation of fidelity is still there?
I can already hear the moans of me making excuses! I am not. This goes both ways, but everyone should learn to seek fault in themselves first, before blaming anyone else. Better yet, before there becomes an infidelity problem, decide if you won't take care of your partner, to expect the infidelity, and even take responsibility for being a cause of it. The selfish, possessive nature of relationships, has only to do with self love, not caring for the other partner.
Lastly, the partner who decides to practice infidelity, should certainly examine themselves also. Is your partner so unreasonable that you "have" to lie to them? If they have lied to you, Why? Are you so unreasonable? If you treated them like they treat you, would you sanction them "cheating" and be all understanding?
It all boils down to this. Love has become "self love", and that isn't all bad. That's what drives us to excel. That's why we want to get ahead and then also provide for others we love. It is the basic survival instinct that make us selfish. And makes us seek out others to mate with.

self control on a fk board....what was your first clue? Did I name call or say she was deluded to think and feel the way she does? Nope...what I said was assuming others feel that way as well is ludicrous, and it is.

Guys who fk around on their wives assume every guy does it...not the case. Same with women who do it, or anything else for that matter. Projection is a bitch. I don't assume because I am a hooker that every girl I run into is also one. I don't assume that because I am not cut out for LTRs, that every woman and man must be programmed the same way, nor do I believe every person can be faithful. I do believe we all have the power to do just as we please, and some have more control than others.




-- Modified on 10/15/2012 12:20:56 PM

For a car salesperson to constantly deride people who drive cars! I hope you get the metaphor.

But I bet the Cheetos are in serious danger....LOL..............

END OF MESSAGE

I am just stating a fact. I guarantee that more couples have a partner that cheats, or wants to cheat (which can be as damaging to a relationship as actually cheating), than not. And we could have loads of debate about what constitutes cheating, but the reality is that it is more likely to happen than not. Your faith in that fairytale romance where you live happily ever after is really endearing, and I really hope you find it if that is what you want, but I just think most people are up for a rude awakening to believe that this is the "norm". It is not.

Age and experience teach one a lot about such things.

Still, there is really no proof of that without many variables to consider in such surveys. According to the stats, you're wrong so saying it's a fact, is bs. I can't speak for what is really in another human's heart or mind and neither can you,  so I don't project that shit onto others.

Many people cheat, and many don't. "Wanting" to cheat and acting on it are also two different things, and where self love and self control usually come into play for a rational person. I "choose" to act based on decision, vs. emotion more times than not...I clearly see how others are not capable of that. That is what "age and experience" have taught me...be a responsible person capable of living by decision vs. acting on every impulse you get in your head/libido that day.

I just don't believe in excuses and rationalization...I own what I do. I don't pretend that me being a hooker has anything to do with biology, how I was raised, or that I am somehow saving marriages lol. If I cheat on my mate, I own it and don't blame it on a "natural desire." I chose to lie, cheat, whatever because I did not control my OWN bs. It is no one's issue but MINE, that I had to go out and fk another person. If Biology was the real reason, I would probably have no control over it just like I have no control over my heart beating.

You don't believe in God and think we came from Apes, so really nothing I say is going to make any sense to you. That is not an insult, but reality. I would never decide to marry an Atheist, because that's a war not a marriage. We both believe in two different things, and they affect how we make decisions, manage emotions, and view sex and love in general.

If the only people you surround yourself with are swingers, hobbyists, and the like, I guess it would appear that more cheat than do not lol. If I based my faith in men just from what I see guys here doing, I would never date again...fortunately, that's not reality. Not all men and women are like what we see on a fk board day after day...THAT is a fact.





-- Modified on 10/15/2012 4:09:24 PM

I subscribe to evolution, not creationism. Talk about projection.

who believes in God and Evolution, so my mistake. And, that's not projection, it's assumption. Projection is me putting what I believe on you...did not do that. I assumed.

-- Modified on 10/15/2012 6:14:36 PM

That it is justifiable is just crazy talk.

END OF MESSAGE

I mean, for God's sake, probably half the guys here are doing this and are in relationships or marriages.

And that's fine.  But the OP's attempt to justify that this is right is insane.

And I will say this:  What we are doing is illegal.  Live with it; accept it.  And move on.  And don't get caught.

A discussion about Creationism and the Theory of Evolution, and what does and doesn’t follow from either, might be enlightening, but perhaps we could give it its own thread.

The question I’d hoped to explore is why so many engage in a practice which they also tend to condemn.

As “Crazyshit” so succinctly established above, nature alone cannot account for this apparent hypocrisy. Nor does blaming a cold partner work. For one thing, some hobbyists have hot partners. For another, given a cold partner, infidelity, though arguably more tempting, need be no more inevitable than sexless fidelity.

So I return to: Perhaps those who seek extramural fulfillment truly are immoral in their own eyes. Or perhaps at some level they believe that the behavior should be deemed OK and only out of pragmatism exercise discretion (or, if you prefer, sneak around, deceive, lie, clandestinely break promises, whatever). Surely there are other possible explanations. Maybe it’s a combination of all of the above.

Why do so many continue in what they condemn? Thoughts?

I can't tell you the number of hobbyists I know who have confessed they think swingers and people in open realtionships are off somehow, and that the occasional tryst is ok as long as it does not get thrown in the wife's face.  Many men who hobby still have too much respect and adoration for their wives to ever want to see them become hookers, and I totally get that because I would never date or marry a hobbyist.

On the flip side, many women who become providers are far from proud of what we do...that is not to say one can't enjoy this job just because we don't shout it from the rooftops. Many of us are not wanton sluts who live day by day with our legs open outside of this business.  We don't engage in casual sex for free, don't believe in polyamorous relationships, don't cheat, don't even bring home women for the man we love. It is very easy to not get the work life and real life twisted for some, and all or nothing for others.

I can't tell you why another person feels what they do, but only how I feel. I have never been proud that I fk other women's husbands and I see no honor in it. Why do I do it...it's a job, nothing more. Regardless of whether or not I get pleasure on certain levels is not really the point...you can find that in any job as well as things you don't like. I don't fk married men for free, I will say that much.

How a person acts during work time does not mean that is the person they really are. Being a hooker is not my life nor what I hold most sacred, and it never will be. Some women are cut out to be nothing but whores and never will be anything else...some are only able to do it for a short time.

-- Modified on 10/15/2012 10:35:27 PM

What about lawnmower dude? Not just married, but on your street. With kids. No?

but it is important, especially where the lovely London and I disagree. She believes we are "created" to be a certain way sexually. I don't believe we were created, and I believe we can be however the heck we want sexually. That's pretty key, wouldn't you agree?

Also, the point has to be made that cheating on someone and extramarital sex are not necessarily the same thing. You can have plenty of extramarital (or extra-relationship) sex with the blessing of your spouse or SO.

I think lying is bad. I have to engage in a certain necessary mendacity in order to do my job, for reasons you've posted about. It is the worst thing about what I do. I wish I could be very public about it because I am proud of what I bring to my engagements- the pleasure and joy I can bring into someone's life.

I don't believe that it is healthy to lie to a partner and cheat on them so I don't do this in my own relationships (that is one part of this mendacity-filled world that I can control- I refuse to get involved with someone who couldn't accept what I do). Lying isn't good for either party, but I understand how sometimes it is necessary (but I would argue that if addressed early enough, this doesn't have to be an issue). The reasons for this particular type of mendacity are as varied and diverse as there are humans who do it. It is not for me to judge my clients, nor for me to babysit their partners' men. It is for me to provide my attention to those who seek it, judgment free.

I do believe that it is a natural thing for a human, minus all socialization, to desire more than one sexual partner. I believe most would, given a different set of social circumstances. (Not all, mind you- London seemingly being case in point.) I don't believe lying is necessarily justifiable, but I understand why people do it. We will always lie when we are unwittingly* forced into a box that doesn't, by nature, fit most of us (London would disagree with my use of the word "most", but give me some time and I will find links to the studies I have read that imply that "most" is an appropriate estimate).

* I say unwittingly because I believe people are not encouraged to think outside of this box. We are encouraged to do what our people before us did: go to school--> get married--> have children--> retire--> die. It was the most dreadful of all possible options I could possibly think of when I had an opportunity to stop and truly question this trajectory. I guarantee you most people here have never truly stopped to analyze why they do what they do in life. (That's why we make such easy "marks" for predatory capitalism.) And that's why the concept of marriage in general hasn't been challenged widely until very recently.

END OF MESSAGE

he has to really "pay" when we do hook up lol. He pays for all of my utilities, all my RX drugs (look up how much celebrex and nexium alone cost) trips, dinners, and does 'whatever' I need taken care of around my house, and at the 3 incalls. If you think that's free, you're deluded. It is more like a SD/SB type deal, but there is still a trade going on.

I barter with many people including my Dermatologist, Mechanic, and Dentist....these are all things that would normally cost me money, that I don't have to pay for by bartering. I am a business woman, first and foremost, and cash in an envelope by the bedside is not the only way to accept payment here.

Add to that, he has to deal with the 'crazy' part of me, because we do spend a lot of time together...he sees the real me, not just London Rayne. That in itself should give him sex credits for the next 10 years. Once again, I do not fk for free or just for kicks. I am a hooker, not some wanton slut who can't keep her legs closed during my off time.

I also don't believe everyone is/was created with the same sexual make up....that is what you said you believed...that we are all animals void of a conscience, and reason. What I said is that we were not created to just fk anything and everything any time we got the urge, and nature proves me right. People are in jail today for doing such things, unwanted pregnancy, stds which you claim were from men fkin goats lol...again proving my point, that we are not made to act on every wacked out sexual urge.

You seem to claim one thing then contradict it in the next breath. How can you say you have a conscience and the ability of rationalization, and then also say you are created from an Ape? Animals do not have the ability to reason, so I guess you proved my point lol. Rapists and people who fk their own brothers and sisters, also claim it was 'natural impulse they could not control' lol.


I don't think every human being is made to be with only one person...no, but I also don't blame that bs on Biology. It's not a Biology issue, it's a mind and self control issue. If it were truly an impulse that cannot be controlled, tell me why can some people do it and others cannot? Weak mind, that's why.

Some people have the ability to live by decision and not act on every impulse that falls in their mind, and others don't. This is why some people are in jail for the rest of their lives, and others would never do such things to end up there....SELF CONTROL.

You think freedom is being able to do whatever you want at any time with no regard for others, how they feel, or what your actions are doing to another person? I think very differently and don't justify shit. I own what I do, and realize that no one, no thing, including Biology, has control over my thought life, my actions, or my mind...that's insanity. When and if I ever do reach a point that I cannot make rational decisions because 'natural urges' take over, I will admit myself into the psych ward with all the other wackos who can't think for themselves and blame outside forces for their own stupidity, and actions.









-- Modified on 10/16/2012 1:12:26 PM

Feel free to ask but I assure you it's not free. We click and get along real well, however I know real well what she does for a living

END OF MESSAGE

The fact that you've made so many assumptions about me is very interesting- and the nature of those assumptions even more so. You're "projecting" a lot of stuff onto me, dear London, and extrapolating any number of crazy things from what I've posted.

We certainly disagree on quite a few things, but ultimately I believe we do agree on a lot too. And that's what I will focus on.

I took what you posted and commented only on that...nothing more. If me explaining myself about how I conduct my life upsets you, I am sorry but that's not going to change. I did not put words in your mouth or type anything, you did not say in a post above.

You said and I quote "We are animals..yes that's what we are." You said you subscribe to Evolution yet still believe in God...just not my God I am guessing because he did not make humans from animals.

You did NOT say that in all of us lie certain animal instincts, but yes one can certainly see that might be what you "meant" to say. Nevertheless, you did not. You said that people either do cheat or want to cheat, and the rest of earth is somehow deluding themselves to believe otherwise. You also said, "sexual urges are natural and that we can act on them however we want." I am only quoting you. You then 'accused' me of having sex with a guy for free, when that's not and never was the case.

If anyone is projecting what they think and feel on others, it's you. You are the one who assumes we should all feel the same way you do about sex, love, and marriages. You even introduced the word "outsourcing" as a solution lol. Talk about cold and clinical.

I know full well more people feel the way you do about sex and marriage than how I do, but I never said otherwise. I simply said, not all people cheat or feel the same way as people in open relationships and those we interact with on a fk board. This is NOT REALITY! You even went as far as to justify all sexual urges as 'natural." Again, your words not mine.

So, if you think I am assuming crazy things from your posts, go back and reread what you posted, and you'll figure out why that is. You say one thing, then something totally in opposition of it. Sorry, I guess I just can't keep up.

I will end on that note....




-- Modified on 10/17/2012 12:26:19 AM

I will drive you there in the ambulance. I will tie you up in wrist restraints  and tell whomever is driving to take the long way. I'll ask you what seem to be the problem as you are strapped to my stretcher in the ever so nice hospital gown. I can start my full exam, starting at the head. I need to check your mouth London, now your chest, and so on. I will use my stethoscope to listen to your heart, moving dowm to your chest and lungs, my left hand touching your belly and slidding down to touch your....

Fuck I'll be back to finish

putting words in my mouth. You're right- I am using that word in the wrong way.

I presume you're referring to this:I did not say we are *only* animals, which I believe is how you took that (otherwise why the rant?). But if we are not animals, London, are we plants? Protozoa? Fungi? We fall into some kingdom. I think you'll agree that out of the six kingdoms of living things on the planet, we belong to the animal kingdom (the others here: http://www.ric.edu/faculty/ptiskus/six_kingdoms/index.htm ). As such, we cannot deny that certain things are not negotiable, such as the fact that we must ingest food to survive and procreate sexually to continue the species. Those are basic, unavoidable truths and urges.

Yes, as humans, we have evolved enough to develop the option to say no to impulses and other urges- some people starve themselves to death via hunger strikes, and some people vow to remain celibate (interestingly, many non-human animals can and have also committed suicide by starving themselves and refused sex with others long term). It's not the norm. And as animals who procreate sexually, I argue that this urge is so ingrained that *most* people give in to it. You don't disagree: Homo Sapiens is what we animals are called, and we've been on the planet for about 195 thousand years (give or take a few thou: http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2005-02/uou-toh021105.php). Love and marriage have only come together in the 18th century (http://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/200505/marriage-history). That means that for 193,300 years, give or take, sex has been pretty much all about "some lustful, meaningless act" (in addition to procreation once we cottoned on to that correlation). Even with the expectation of love in marriage, the expectation of both partners' fidelity is pretty modern. "1840, England: Virgin lace—Queen Victoria starts a trend by wearing virginal white, instead of the traditional jeweled wedding gown. Historically thought of as the lustier sex, women are now considered chaste and pure. As a result, many men find it easier to have sex with prostitutes than with their virtuous wives."

Previous to the 1800s, (i.e., Greek, Roman, and biblical times) when adultery was considered a "sin" or a "crime" it was usually only when one of the involved parties was a woman. This was primarily due to the fact that men wanted to be sure they were the ones who fathered a child before being expected to feed and raise it. If a married man was discovered to have cheated with an unmarried woman, you'll have a difficult time finding any evidence that he was punished (except by his wife, that is. lol!). I said:Once again, you agree:I said: Here is a break-down of that sentence: people in relationships cheat on their partners. Many times they are not caught. If this happens, the cheating partner can give the faithful partner a disease.

To assume that someone will never cheat on you is deluding yourself. You don't know what a person is capable of in the future. Heck, THEY don't even know! To hope they won't, and to plan your relationship around that hope, is more realistic. But as is evidenced in SA, many faithful wives and their children are dying of AIDS because a husband they presumed (hoped) would be faithful was not. I am sure many wives have cheated as well, but I believe men in SA have more freedom culturally to cheat than women (see the tradition of Lobola: http://www.essortment.com/marriage-tradition-africa-lobola-36599.html).Please show me where I said that. Please paste the quote rather than paraphrasing it. I think you'll find I never said such a thing in the same sentence. What I did say,would be taken out of context placed next to the former statement of sexual urges being natural. It was referring to the fact that I don't believe in some divinely predetermined purpose for our sexual intercourse, differentiating my beliefs and opinions from yours, which (I am inferring) are informed by your religious beliefs.I never said I assume all should feel the way I do. But I did say *most* people either will cheat or will want to cheat (whether or not they act on it). An urge is a desire, even if it is not consummated. If that desire is nurtured, it can become a source of tension, especially when a partner is not engaging sexually with the partner that had the initial urge (which I would argue was only nurtured in many cases because of the lack of sex).

Cold? Clinical? No- I would call it practical. Wouldn't you say that practicality might be necessary given that "more people feel the way [I] do about sex and marriage than how [you] do"?

to further this dumb ass argument?  I could have really saved you the trouble lol. I call people humans, now I see you call them animals. I don't care how many guys you open your legs to for free, for pay, or at one of your swingers' parties dear...live your life however you choose. You certainly don't have to 'justify' any of that to me.

I will continue to live my life by owning my actions and not blaming them on Biology or Evolution, so I can feel better about what and why I do things.

-- Modified on 10/17/2012 2:12:08 AM

I am sure you feel a lot better about yourself now.

dumb crap to once again backpedal. I was not going to post any more about the subject. You seem to think I care about what you do...I really don't, nor do I judge you or anyone else. I am just not one for excuses and bs. Did you not just post about how "PROUD" you were for doing what you do here? Well, there ya go...own it.

-- Modified on 10/17/2012 2:27:13 AM

own it. I just don't think of it as the evil you do. You do it and think it's evil and still do it. I do it and don't think it's evil and am proud of it. Yes, we will simply have to agree to disagree here. As I said in my very first response to you on this thread.

No- you don't care or judge, yet wrote several dissertations about the subject here. Methinks thou protesteth too much.

I don't think being a hooker is "evil" but I would not exactly brag about it at tea parties either. I can think of about 10 other things in life that are worth bragging about, but the many d*cks I have sucked would not be one of them. You mistake my caring about 'what' you do, for the bs justification you use for 'why' you do it....two different things.

I said I see no honor in fkin other women's husbands, and I don't. I am not that hooker who deludes myself into thinking OMG, I am saving marraiges one fk at a time lol. Sure. I don't get a charge because a guy pays me, or think "wow" I must be so special that he picked me lol. Nah...not that insecure.

You're not a sex therapist, you're a hooker. Guys don't go into your office fully clothed, and pay you to talk to them.  They see your tits hanging out on a hooker website, and pay to fk you. You do realize that right?  Granted, there might be some talking and there are some saps looking for love here,  but the majority of guys want to get LAID.

So no matter the packaging, or all the cute shit we put on our websites to try and appear as if we are offering something more, it's still the same premise....guys want a nut, and we are the fastest way from A to B for them to reach that objective.

Have a guy from TER pay you and don't fk him, and see what happens lol. Just saying. Now, if you would like any further exchange feel free to email me or have your 'friend' do it lol.

-- Modified on 10/17/2012 10:36:41 AM

because it is informed by the experiences you've had in this arena.

too bad it derailed from philosophical, sociological discussion to more matter of fact themes. Somehow the posts went from interesting and thought provoking to condemning. Which it ends up proving the point of the poster. We are consumed by our own moral conflicts; we condemn what we practice if not on us in the person next to us doing exactly the same.