FWIW, I NEVER see any vixen who wants info that could possibly damage my professional or personal life, such as biz phone, real name, real address, company name, and any references other than providers who know nicknames. Too many providers will put this in a computer and never delete it, as if deletion could remove it from the C-drive anyhow. Besides, will she give you her real name, address, DL#, SS#, etc, to track her down if she rips you off or worse?
What if her BF or SO gets the info and harasses you? Usually she is a stranger who may keep records and not tell you. Every biz keeps records, but this is different.
Personal info details can really hurt a guy in many ways, and probably fewer than 5% of providers will insist on more than a name and cell number, if that.
Fortunately I am single, w/o dependents, not a fat Senator, not a Republican activist, and not involved in any circles that would care whether I fool around or not. Everybody else I know is really offended by these phony verification and screening activities that simply will not stop LE or serial killers.
The recent Debbie Moon case in San Diego shows how useless screening can be. She had thorough screening, and was busted by an undercover cop. The top escort in DC busted last year in Virginia went to see a cop as an outcall, and was busted, after screening. Undercover cops have great ID.
In the first place, the Supreme Court says it is just peachy to lie to suspects all you want, and to create all of the phony ID you need. The few serious busts in liberal DC in the last few years were by undercover dudes with totally believable identities that passed this silly screening we keep hearing about. Screening is a pointless intrusion, and is dangerous at that.
The best screening is a 5 minute chat when the guy shows up, in the hotel bar preferably.
Send him away with any excuse at all if you are the least bit uncomfortable. That's what Gavin DeBecker's book, The Gift of Fear teaches, and he's right.
Screening unfortunately in reality creates computer files with too much information.
LE has been in the drug war biz for decades, and they have systems for producing totally authentic phony ID if they want to arrest anybody. Screening never stops LE; it only hassles guys who would prefer to have some privacy.
Serial killers and rapists and thieves often have sufficient ID  to pass screening too, so what good does that do? Pepper spray is better, and self defense training is available in every community.
-- Modified on 5/22/2002 7:21:54 AM

-- Modified on 5/22/2002 7:52:04 AM

I am a bit annoyed at your lack of sensitivity towards our safety.  LE is the leastof my worries.  I recieved a voicemail message this morning. The caller outlined in gory detail his planned anal rape of me.  He said "In your business there is no such thing as 100% security."

Guess what?  I have upped my screening method!  
Though I doubt a serious rapist would give me a warning, there is no guarantee.

I made a police report and have a trap on my phone and hope the sick SOB calls again.  Yes, the DA WILL proscecute him.

If you are not sensitive to my safety needs, then please do not call me.

ladies for being careful or for not seeing you just because you sound like a "nice guy". What we have to go by to screen may not be much, but it's all we have to give us the feeling of safety, short of someone with an ouzi in the closet.  

We've discussed screening on these threads ... ad nauseum.  Some men are okay with it some are not.  To each his own.  Some wont do it on email, but will on the  phone.  So we are all glad that you found what works for you L.S.

Btw, both LE and con men establish a rapport as a method to be able to gain confidence of their prey.  I know a lady who recently got popped on that very basis; she thought the vice officer was okay after chatting with him for awhile; she'd decided he was a "nice guy".  


Take care





-- Modified on 5/22/2002 1:42:48 AM

From The Hobbyist Point of View: Yes, Le CAN make a convincing I.D. and background to trick a provider (Hell, "I" could do it and I'm no rocket scientist)

From The Providers Point of View: Our Safety is PARAMOUNT.

I use provider references EXCLUSIVELY. This does not always work as some providers will not give references (for UNDERSTANDABLE personal reasons).

The Answer...COME UP WITH A BETTER SYSTEM! I've suggested other ways to accomplish screening that will make both the hobbyist and the provider happy...my feeble attempts get shot down. (Hey, I dont have all the answers but at least I'm trying to come up with an answer)

my .02 cents
sable
xoxo

WOW Mr Schlong, where the heck did that come from???? I can usually see these posts coming, this one hit me right outta left field!

Well I will say that I understand your concerns, but sometimes life is just not as simple as we would like it to be.  I've said this before and I will keep saying it... the risks to the hobbyist are NOT equal to the risks of the provider... we will NEVER, no matter WHAT screening methods we impose, be on equal ground.  For purely biological reasons, I will tell you that altho I would do my best and fight and scream like a banshee, even a curvy girl like me is easily overpowered by most men.  The concern of getting beaten up, raped, or killed, is just NOT something that you guys have to deal with at all.

I required work information for a looooooong time, and only recently started preferring references over work info, for reasons of my own. Ironically, I still mostly receive work information!  There are just too many gentlemen who are brand new to turn them all away... besides, I like the newbies

There are a few pieces of advice that I give to gentlemen new to the hobby... the first is that the vast majority of reputable ladies are NOT going to see a new client without SOME form of screening, whatever it may be. The second is that the important important thing is to make that first experience be with someone who is as trustworthy as possible... research your lady of choice as far back on the boards as you possibly can, see what her personality is like, see what posts have been made about her and what her reviews are like, etc. The third is that if you have a high concern for safety with your screening info, do NOT give it to an agency, because it is far more likely that their records will be seized and pored thru with a fine tooth comb. It just makes logical sense that their numbers are higher, thus the potential for a "big bust" is higher. (IMO anyways. I work out of hotels, NEVER out of my home where my home computer is, so it would be at least a little more hassle for anyone to snag my computer.)  And finally if you are really that concerned about a computer trail, you may want to provide any screening info requested, over the phone... thus it's written on a piece of paper which is easily torn up and thrown away. We are not all out to get you, yanno. Honest!

My last piece of advice is that if some psycho woman does try to blackmail someone with their info... I honestly think it would be INCREDIBLY easy to wiggle out of it in this day and age of stalkers everywhere. "Honey she was some woman who flirted with me at the gas station... she must have written my tag number down when I rejected her! Let's go get a restraining order on this psycho!"  Deny deny deny.

So those are my thoughts. New gentlemen do need to have some way to get in... and I am happy to serve as a reference once I've seen someone one time.  I'm sorry you feel the way you do, and I do understand, but the bottom line is that this 'biz DOES carry risks for both client and provider. Which is silly considering that we are not doing anything illegal, and simply providing companionship to so many wonderful gentlemen who need it!  The only thing we can do is to minimize our risks and we all have to find our ways of doing that, that make the most sense to us.  

If you do not like our screening process, it definitely makes sense to move on and choose someone else... but please don't beat us up for making choices to protect ourselves as best we can.

Hugs*
Nicole

Invading a hobbyist's private life and getting ID information does not necessarily protect you from crazies at all.
Training in self defense, and pepperspray, work wonders, as does that initial meeting in a semi-public place with your intuitive antennae all in place and powered up. I suppose that crazies spend a lot of time trying to figure out how to get around your screening, but I wouldn't know. There are too many crazies in the US who scheme against the safety of all of us. I once took a long course in Law & Psychiatry at NYU, taught at Bellevue, and all it did was scare me because of the imagination of the criminally insane. Women are the principal victims of course, but my point was that this so-called screening is illusory, unless it is by other provider references, and providers do not cooperate well in that regard.
Your safety is of paramount concern, but calling my office threatens my safety and security too.

Jesus that pisses me off.  I tell what; if you find out who this rapist is, send me the information, I am very willing to irreparably snap his arms and legs for you free of charge.  

The only guy I hate more than a weak-ass rapist is a fucking child molester.  If I ever get my hands on a child molester... well, him they will just never hear from again.  

Sorry to hear about the bullshit you have to put up with from some sick asshole getting his rocks off at the expense of your comfort.

-- Modified on 5/22/2002 3:46:52 AM

There is just no fool proof method of safety or LE screening, especially not the latter. DeBecker's books on safety and human intuition are incisive even brilliant. You can learn about conning from Miami Vice re-runs. How that applies to the next hobbyist encounter is a whole different matter. Ladies have a different perspective obviously that I as a male hobbyist cannot pretend to be able to understand from the inside.
Think about it: How do you protect yourself from a clever Ted Bundy? He had real jobs and references and charm and experience at seductive schemes.
Calling a guy's office or home, or demanding a listed telephone number are no answer, and just create new problems.
Unlisted numbers and layers of privacy protection are a part of protecting your privacy nowadays, whether you are a hobbyist, or vixen, or a dangerous predator.
I recall the Toronto busts a few months ago of a so-called ultra-discreet agency group. The owner had records back into the 1980s, hidden in a barn owned by a cousin or something, so it took an extra day for LE to find it. I do not trust any stranger to destroy records. It's not worth the risk. At least three large Florida interstate operations were busted in the last year by feds and state. The computers had tons of info in them.
Hobbyists do not need to take that risk. Providers get illusory protection from making such intrusive demands.
In my experience, maybe one out of 25 providers engages in intrusive screening. Most do very well with intuitive means. The others I simply avoid. One in one hundred is truly annoying.
Maybe three in my experience have been totally anal bitches about it. I've missed seeing a few women who were very appealing, but such is life.

As to the WOW, a pal told me how his office and home numbers were in the computers of providers recently busted, and his worries about his career and personal life if the inquiries continued. You know what happens: LE calls every number in the private John phone book or sends a fax saying: "Your FAX number is in records seized by a federal search today. You must call ****." LE loves sending out faxes like that or making calls to your office or wife. LE gets off on that!
My point is that the screening used by a few providers is totally illusory and unnecessarily intrusive. It provides no real protection. Most providers keep the info somewhere that LE can find it.
As an earlier post indicates, it is the rare provider who asks me much of anything, one in twenty if that. A work phone number could be a total disaster in the lives of many guys, as could a home phone number. Those records create nightmares in the rare case when LE goes snooping, when Ashcroft decides to Stamp Out BlowJobs in America for the Sake of Christian Insanity! SOBJIAFSOCI. LOL
My prepaid cell phone leads to a vacant lot in another area code, which is what we all should do for privacy's sake. I use provider references, but have no idea whether prior providers cooperate or return calls, or even what name I used when seeing the previous lady.
Those numbers provide no safety for you at all when a major nut case comes along, which I hope is never, or really rare.
Your safety is best provided by intuition, self defense skills, and pepperspray, not a gun in the closet. That is as useless as a tank in the garage.
Endangering a regular guy who has a job, wife, and mortgage, provides no safety protection from a potential wacko.
I've known of many cases of guys who got those scary calls.
Safety is a different issue.

My intuition seems to be pretty good.  This comes from experience (including some very hard lessons), much introspection, and from learning to trust my intuition.  But, I prefer not to have to rely on it entirely, because I get very nervous meeting a complete stranger of a client.  Once I'm scared, it's very difficult for me to shake off my fear and have a great session, and I can't be relaxed unless I'm fairly confident that the person I'm about to meet is not out to hurt me.  Most girls who have felt the cold, hard steel of handcuffs around their wrists or have been assaulted, hit or robbed by a client know what I'm talking about.  I'm sure there are girls who are cool and confident while relying completely on their intuition, but I'm not one of them.

I don't blame you for not wanting to take the risk of giving your personal information to a careless or indiscreet provider.  Doing so puts the onus on you to research the provider's reputation and to use YOUR intuition to decide if she's trustworthy.

Well said, If you need some help just let me know..

There is, of course, a foolproof way to determine the bona fides of any prospective client. Hire a detective agency and follow the guy for a week. Totally impractical, as you would probably need a team of three (8 hour shifts) and would cost thousands of dollars.

With the new evidence on the SD board that San Diego LE is now joining Orange County in using the internet ads to setup hobbyists, both providers and hobbyists must each do what they think is necessary to "make it safe." Failing setting up a 24-hour tail, though, it will never be totally safe, to answer the question of Laurence Olivier's character in Marathon Man. The most you can do is reduce your risks.

Hmmmmm....What a lot of hobbyists fail to recognize is that when a lady does thourghly screen then she is protecting you as well. The chances are much less that when you show up(especially at and incall location) you will not be greeted by some phsycho stalker or LE. I am talking about through screening. A paycheck stub, ID or you simply giving a work number does not suffice for me. I have my own method and try to make things as painless and non-invasive as possible. Heck, I would be the first one to stop screening all together if it where not absolutely necessary for our saftey. I didn't write the rules I just follow them.
I have also had a number of hobbyists tell me that they wouldn't even consider seeing a lady who doesn't screen for the same reasons stated above.
As most others said here of course it is your choice but, don't knock a girl for doing her best to protect the both of you.

Kisses,

Tiffany

Me too. I don't give up personal info. I even introduce myself with a wrong first name, and try to park my car where the license plate is inconspicuous (that's my Achilles heel, the car ID).

Some providers are sticklers for client ID. I just don't patronize them. Live and let live.

But some providers and agencies TALK like they're sticklers for client ID, but actually don't send you through the ringer much at all. It's always worth giving 'em a call and trying to set something up, even if they do talk the strict talk; often you'll find that they want the business bad enough to stretch their own rules.

Example. One woman who claims on her website to require 48 hour notice and to have very limited time slots available, and who wants all your personal info for verification, including a work phone number and the name of your supervisor (LOL, rIIIIIIIIIIIIIIght) turned out, when I contacted her, to be willing to cut her rate almost in half (from the posted $375 down to $200), to be willing to meet me immediately (30 minutes after I called), and to be willing to entirely disregard the clock (she stayed for 3 hours after the 1-hour appointment!). She's still heavily reviewed, here and on other boards, as a "stringent" woman with "limited" opportunities.

How about an offshore member/provider
registry where it is not govern by US law ?

Maybe you could set up a training site for hobbyists...  seems to me that if you're _that_ good, you'd be turning this sellers' market into a buyers' market...

I agree with most of what you are saying Mr. Schlong.  Most of the providers will keep whatever information they have regarding you in a little black book or a computer database and if they are busted LE will have that information.  I have heard some providers claim not to keep that information.  They certainly are in the minority.  Just take a survey and find out how many guys received unsolicited calls from providers they have previously seen.  Obviously to be called back after having seen a provider means the information is kept somewhere.  In addition several of the ladies who are defending their screening policies have admitted in other threads to posting reviews of hobbyists containing there personal information on the TBD Provider Review Board.  I am not talking about physically threatening hobbyists but just plain ordinary hobbyists.  So much for keeping your information in confidence.

LOL it's a trade secret

It's a trade secret. >:-]

No, seriously, some people who stretch their rules don't meet me until after they've stretched them (obviously) so I don't really think it's anything *I'M* doing. It's more likely, that the presentation on the web of being a "discriminating" provider is geared more toward turning off scuzzbag and last-minute and under-age and fraternity clients, and once I've passed those few tests (I'm articulate; I live in my own house; I have a brain larger than a small rodent's) the providers are put at ease.

I still find the hypocrisy a bit hard to take. "Extensive screening necessary" instantly, and at almost no prompting, shifts to "be there in five minutes"? Nah, that bugs me.


-- Modified on 5/22/2002 8:02:11 PM

and I've found a bonus to doing screening - it cuts down on the cancellations and no-shows.

In the beginning, I didn't screen at all and I got a lot of no-shows which are extremely inconvenient for me. Now I get the occasional cancellation but no one ever stands me up.

I thought screening would cut down on business but on the contrary I'm turning people away as I don't have time to see them all. Luckily most men don't feel like you do.

Help the boy understand a phone "trap". Does this trap on your phone track all of your callers, for the benefit of the police?

You might already know that, Dr., but I want the other readers to know that I am not one of the ladies you are referring to.  Even though I'm posting under an alias, some people have probably figured out who I am.  But, then again, if they know who I am, then they know my feelings on the subject.

Never mind.  

-- Modified on 5/23/2002 2:22:14 AM

For the lassssssst time, the ONLY info posted on the providers board is an email addy... unless your email contains your first and last name (I think all hobbyists should have an anonymous email, don't you?), in which case something like JohnD**@hotmail.com will be used... and a first name. If that is tooooooo much info for other providers to know about you maybe you're in the wrong hobby????

I'm tired of defending this GOOD LORD, you guys DO have a valid point about providers saving your info at home... but that client database is harmless.  I'm done now so if you want to come back and say... "No it's not no it's not!" I won't argue, just stating the facts.

Hugs*
Nicole

You are right, NO method is completely foolproof... and wearing a seat belt doesn't mean it's impossible for you to die in a car crash... but are you going to stop wearing a seat belt????

Screening is about REDUCING THE ODDS that someone will be a psycho, or LE trying to entrap us into doing something illegal (or ready to lie about it, as we all know they are).  

I would NEVER trust "intuition" alone... I always trust my intuition BUT, just like I'd never trust an intuitive sense that says "You won't get into a car accident today, no need for that seat belt," I wouldn't trust intuition alone for something this dangerous either.  I think Holly makes a great point by pointing out that she uses her intuition IN ADDITION to her screening process.

I find it.. sad and scary that so many women don't screen at all if that's what you're saying. Are you saying they don't even ask for references??? And if so, how do you feel about someone who really cares so LITTLE about their own safety that they could care less who walks through their door???? Personally I, and most of the women I have spoken to, have come to the conclusion that it is NOT worth your $250 to risk getting beaten up or raped or killed without taking any precautions whatsoever. That's just insane! YOU wouldn't do that, why do you expect us to do it????

I am here to have FUN, not get harmed in any way, and frankly my way of having fun is working very, very well for me. I accept references if they are available but many many gentlemen do not have a reference, and until someone comes up with some other brilliant way of verifying their identity, I'll continue doing what I'm doing. I'm very open to suggestions that make sense and have as few holes as possible, I simply haven't found them yet.

This topic is cyclic... it comes up every month or so and people just keep on beating it to death... it's just silly to keep arguing about it. Those of us who do screen, do so for reasons that are so strongly ingrained in us, we would NEVER skip our screening.. you cannot convince us to do so... so why bother fighting about it???? We will never be equal here, the interests of client and provider will always clash in some ways, it is unavoidable... so simply move on.

BTW the big scary case you are speaking of in Toronto was, as you pointed out, an agency. Frankly I would need a damned secretary to keep all of the information I receive in any organized way and I do not have time for that nonsense. Agencies DO keep information (in general... exceptions to every rule), in my opinion, AND are a higher target for LE, thus in general, they are more risky.

Sincerely,
Nicole

I'll second... or third That!!!!

Hugs*
Nicole

I firmly believe that screening reduces our odds of coming to harm... I dunno why you can't understand that... Someone who is a mysoginist and who is planning to come in and harm you is going to be less likely to do so if he thinks there is a chance that he could be held accountable for his actions... that is a fact!

The bottom line is that if someone cannot trust me to make a simple phone call (who does not have a reference from a lady I know and trust), then he doesn't need to try to see me... it's that simple... you go your way and I will go mine, and thus... everyone is happy

Nicole

I had called a local provider, given her some of my home information-the usual stuff.

She came otu, we had our fun and I didn't think anything about it.............until.............

About a week later, I had a phone call on my answering machine at home.

Some guy had called, claimed she had AIDS and made some veiled threats about seeing her.

I learned later (through another lady I've known for a long time in the biz) that the provider's ex-boyfriend had taken her notebook with all her contact info.

Now I know many of you claim that you destroy the information after you've verified, but from a guys perspective, I can't help but remember Heidi Fleiss and Sidney Biddle-Barrow (Mayflower Madame), etc. Upper scale ladies, but they kept names & numbers.

#1 Surely it is clear to everyone by now that screening does not eliminate LE because LE are experienced at fake ID and background. SexyCurves might recall that M69 in DC was busted after screening, going to see an LE client. That reasoning now is surely recognized as fallacious and illusory.
#2 Sorry, I don't trust anyone to destroy records, to call my office, to do anything to check up on me, because too often the promise of discretion is untrue, or carelessness intervenes. The post above shows how a boyfriend gets a name and number. LE seizes records and computers, even phone records. A breach of privacy causes serious damage for most guys, so intrusive screening is out of the question, and I have passed on the very few vixens who insist. There are too many hot women out there who will chat a while and meet you in a nice hotel bar to talk, instead of calling your wife for a reference.
#3 Screening also is no sure way to weed out wackos, who are probably 1 in 1000 anyhow. Normal guys should not have to suffer screening because of wackos. There is no logic to that. Wackos, like LE, can easily have verifiable details and references. All they have to do is have one local provider vouch for them. So they behave once, before going wacko. LE is not exactly responsive to claims of robbery or even rape from providers unfortunately. Cops are often insensitive. They treat lawyer victims worse. Seeing a wacko is a risk in this field, as it is in practicing law I might add, from being stalked by more than a few wackos who resented being brought to justice in years past.
#4 Guys who think it's grand that you screen might change their minds upon reflection, or if their name shows up in a raid, or after a threatening phone call from a BF, or better yet after calls from LE to their wives. I did get a FAX actually once from the DEA because they found my number in executing a search warrant in far away Phoenix where I had not been in over a year.
Just a little note, with my name & number saying "generous, likes bbbjteoku." LOL. Of course I did not respond and DEA did not follow up, but what if the provider had been local, the DEA might have bashed in my door and taken my own computer  hard drive to play with. Wine is the strongest stimulant around here, unless you count Viagra.
LE who bust a provider can then raid a few sample clients to make the point, especially with an election coming up.
The infamous Fredrick, MD, blackbook is still in limbo after all of these years. Many cities have websites with pictures of every man arrested for soliciting prostitution. I came across such a site recently and could not believe my eyes. It was a suburban Maryland city, a city adjacent to where Ms SC lives I think, in the very same county. You talk about smearing a person who is presumed innocent, or adding punishment before there is any decision that a crime occurred. In that town, and in Montgomery County Maryland generally, the religious right city attorney could do the same with a provider's computer files or black book.

On that note, I'll go over to the Erotic Humor Board, which I commend to everyone who needs a good laugh to go along with a great bbj,referably -teoku, although I would settle for -teow, but a Met-RX Power Bar is better for one's health.

-- Modified on 5/23/2002 1:27:38 PM

-- Modified on 5/23/2002 5:12:27 PM

-- Modified on 5/24/2002 4:15:23 AM

I had a trap on my phone several years ago.  You have to note the exact time of the call and then call the phone company when you receive  a call and inform them of the time.  They turn the information over to  local LE for investigation.

I'll round out the trio on that trip. I've got a carbon steel axe hilted, broad sword and a two headed flail I've been itching to try out.

Just a few inches at a time...

Might I suggest a stop gap measure? What if it were possible to put together a "white list" so to speak. Providers and agencies have for years kept "black lists" of bad clients, dangerous men, psychos...etc.

So, what if a database was assembled by providers on an offshore (inaccessible to US law enforcement), entirely secure server, behind good encryption so that only providers could access it with a unique username and password. (Even if it were hacked, which yes I understand is very possible. Any information seized would be inadmissable in court because it was illegally obtained.)

The information about the guys wouldn't have to have anything more identifying than a name and city, but could extend all the way to the amount of information that the gentlemen chose to provide, up to and including SS#, DL#, birthdate, work phone, etc. That way, girls that were considering seeing a client could very easily jump in and check to make sure he's been approved by another lady and could make their own minds up about how much screening needs to be done and how comfortable they are with the amount of screening another provider has done.

So, gentlemen who are particularly sensitive about their privacy wouldn't ever have to worry about it being compromised because only what they give is available to the providers. The ladies that are comfortable with a limited amount of info use it, those that aren't refuse him.

Problem solved.

Leaves something to be desired, I'm sorry to say...

M69 was set up by a client. A trusted regular. At least, that is what I heard.
So much for trusting regulars.

A lady above posted that a friend of hers got popped after meeting and chatting with a very sweet vice officer. So much for THAT idea.

People die in car crashes all the time, wearing their seat belts... doesn't mean I will stop wearing mine. This is about reducing the odds. No matter what I do, a psycho could hurt me or LE could set me up and entrap me... that doesn't mean I'm going to stop taking every precaution I can... that is just unreasonable logic!  You probably would NOT catch HIV even if you have sex without a condom for your whole life... the odds are still VERY low... but will you stop wearing them???? OF COURSE NOT.  See how silly that is???

Honey you go your way, we will go ours. If you have good references I would accept them from you and you wouldn't have to worry. Other gentlemen don't, and I and other ladies will screen them as we see fit.

Hugs*
Nicole

First of all, I know you are a very bright individual, and hope that you understand that, and I respect your opinion and believe that you present it well.
The point re LE was that they have fool proof ID and can pop you when they want to. That's why it is safest to work in DC, not in Virginia or Maryland. To use LE as an excuse to snoop on private clients is illogical and unreasonable.
I heard the gossip that M69 may have been set up by a client, but that was her excuse to save face. The fact was that she went to see a cop in Virginia after her agency had screened the call. Going to Virginia itself was dumb. The prosecutor out there is a right wing Irish Catholic and runs frequent prostitution stings. They do stings in all three N VA counties. That explains the bust to me. M69 was unlucky and dumb, a bad combination. On top of that she supposedly talked her head off to the cops, so she endangered many other people, but I do not know the details of that, or whether anything became of it, or even the disposition of her case. Naturally she would not want anyone to suspect that she might have named names in any way, so she had to find a scapegoat. I vaguely remember the board exchanges on that, and ultimately M69 was so inconsistent and illogical that nobody believed her. Her story was bogus and paranoid, a coverup to hide how dumb she had been, Clairol-dumb.
If you know anything about how cops work, a private citizen in another State cannot possibly set up anybody for anything. Nobody had any motive. M69 is a total doll, not the brightest one, but a nice person I understand. I suppose the police reports would tell the story, but I have no reason to look them up.
Virginia LE has busted lots of people. Search the Journal newspaper archives to read all about the Virginia stings. They busted an adorable Finnish masseuse over a year ago who gave the best bbbjs on Earth, and she left the country. I still tear up thinking about her loss. Avia, come back! The motto "Virginia is for Lovers" ought to be "Virginia is for LE" LOL. Also, Never Hoover a Cop! LOL
The seatbelt analogy also does not justify snooping into the private lives of clients. Snooping is ineffective. Seatbelts work very well. Even meeting for a drink will not necessarily tip you off to a guy who is a wacko. I've had drinks with three DC providers whom I now consider potentially dangerous, but that was because other hobbyists warned me, not anything in their social behavior. References seem to be about the best protection, and I provide those when asked, but providers almost never check them out.
There are high tech devices you can attach to your phone that detect suspicious voice patterns if you ask the right questions. That is something worth trying. I used a voice stress analysis expert in a case way back in 1977, and that technology is interesting and not intrusive. Spy Stores, Radio Shack, and that place on lower Conn Ave may have the devices, and the price was not bad either. Maybe I'll get one for screening possible ripoffs by providers who are unreviewed or new.
I've read your reviews SC. You know I think you're hot too, but you live too far away out in Maryland. So many hot women, so little time.

-- Modified on 5/24/2002 11:37:07 AM

First of all... Being rant... every darned time I go into the DC city limits, I sit around twiddling my thumbs. Everyone wants me to go to DC, but when I do, I get zilch.  So much for that idea!  I think most people from the actual city of DC have already driven the measly 25 min (NOT *way out* LOL), to Gaithersburg or Rockville to see me.  I also do visit Columbia and BWI. I've come to DC twice, so where the heck were YOU, huh???  End rant!  LOL

As for the seat belt analogy... the point of that is that even wearing a seat belt your car *might* BLOW UP and you STILL might die in a wreck... but you reduce your odds. It is a fact that LE is going to try to set up those who are easier to set up...most LE has a limited budget to do this with... it is also a fact that if they wantcha that bad and get a jones on for you, NOTHING you can do will make a difference. Which is very annoying considering that I am not doing anything illegal to begin with!   Note that I said "most" and "reduce the odds." There are very few absolutes in life... and there are exceptions to every rule. And none of these are "rules" just things I think are either more or less LIKELY.

I have no interest in the private lives of my clients... I do not want to pry... I do not care where they go when they walk out my door, it is none of my business... altho many of them do share a great deal, maybe even more than is wise sometimes. I had a gentlemen who wrote me from an email addy where the domain matched his last name. I looked up the domain, it had pics of his wife, their phone number, pics of his kids... I told him to PLEASE use me as a reference in future!!!!! I really do care about my clients and want them to be safe... but my safety is OF COURSE *my* priority, while YOUR safety has to be YOUR priority, thus a conflict.  I doubt that voice stress analysis would help me... I think I'm too blonde for that one LOL!  But like I have said before in this thread, as soon as anyone is able to offer me a BETTER alternative to work info for gents with no references... honey I will JUMP on it and I think most of us feel the same way!

As for M69, from all indications I can see she is re-established and doing just fine in terms of being a provider... I don't know the lady so I don't feel comfy discussing her more.  I've only ever heard good things about her.

And clients CAN tip off LE to things... just takes a phone call. It might not make a diff... but, it might!  Why take the chance?  Many MANY drug busts take place due to neighbors reporting suspicious activity... I've seen it happen.

And you just stated the very reason that my website says "I'm very sorry but I am not available for outcall to ANY part of Virginia."

Hugssssss*
Nicole... only a 25 minute drive away! hehe!  

Contrary to protestations by some outspoken proponents of intense screening, many Los Angeles-based providers do not, in fact, dispose of the info they demand from their prospective clients.  In fact, some of these same women have been known to actually SELL YOUR INFO to agencies and other e-marketing entities.  Nice, huh?

...and the quantum of information on that particular database has recently changed substantially.  Those changes occurred only after the furor on the L.A. Board last month.  
    However, there also exist several privately-maintained, provider-accessible datebases based in Southern California containing explicit and extensive information on numerous hobbyists -- the overwhelming majority of whom are completely unobjectionable men -- and whose only fault is a lack of good judgment in divulging that information to providers.  I've seen my own name listed, as well as those of other hobbyists of my acquaintance.  I'm one of the good guys.  I adore the ladies, and they seem to enjoy my company as well.  But the fact is, my real name, business address, e-mail address, telephone number and other relevant data is clearly and openly listed for all to see, including LE (who have undoubtedly accessed these databases).  
    It's the dirty little secret the ladies really don't want you to know.  But now you do.  Sorry, ladies.        

-- Modified on 5/25/2002 11:38:16 AM

Since you guys all made such a huge uproar and "exposed" TBD for "this", I don't understand why you haven't exposed these other lists? Whatever they are I've never heard of them, so maybe they're just a west coast thing.... but if what you say is true, then they are wrong and I agree with you.

And no, TBD's database honestly hasn't changed, altho more and more of us ladies are trying to advise new ladies how to enter useful information without violating your privacy.

Hugs*
Nicole

This is me SexyCurvesDC posting above, not SweetKelly, and I apologize for any confusion. Not trying to mislead you guys LOL! Kelly is staying with me for the summer and had logged into TER, and I didn't even notice the name was different when I logged in. You can see her pics here guys:
http://www.sexy-curves.com/kelly/
So I just wanted to say it's no big conspiracy or anything
Hugs*
Nicole

JBarth, any lady that you know is being that indiscreet with the information of her clients... I don't understand, if you KNOW someone is doing that, why that person hasn't been exposed so that other clients are aware. I feel like you gentlemen have so much power in this 'biz because you CAN let other clients know of a situation like this... but you only have that power if you use it, and can also PROVE what you are saying is true.

Hugs*
Nicole