Over the past few days there's been threads by guys wanting opinions on traveling with a provider, getting into a full time relationship with one, and other situations that go beyond what happens behind closed doors during P4P.

I have spent considerably more on my hair stylist over the years and I know darn well she is not about to take time out of her day and miss seeing PAYING client to hang with me and do lunch. Why is this so hard for some to understand? You are a client, not a friend, maybe a friendly client but a client just the same.

but it's better to find out now rather than letting your imagination run away with you thinking there was something more between the two of you.

15k is really peanuts.  Now, if I spent 50-75K on a lady during a year, which I have, and she wanted to charge me $900 for a simple lunch date I would be extremely pissed.  By the way, a porn star I saw years ago and was very generous to gave me a ride from the airport to my hotel.  Guess what:  she wanted 1K for the lift. So anyone who thinks that hookers are not a uniquely greedy bunch is being delusional.

Case in point:  A while ago, a provider/friend asked me to take her to an event in the city, and I eventually did and I also asked her if she wanted dinner afterwards and she said yes, and I did that too.  No playtime was involved, but driving her home I could tell she was irritated although she didn't say anything.  Anyway, I continued to see her and eventually she asked me to take her to NYC for an overnight.  I said OK, Ill pay for everything (e. g. hotel, tickets, good food, etc) and treat you well and you can have personal time if you want but if there is playtime I'll only pay for that and any NYC amusements we take in, and we have to agree beforehand so there's no unhappiness or misunderstanding.  She dropped her request and we're still friends, but there's never any OTC, even if it's something she wants to do and wants male companionship rather than go by herself.  In other words, she wanted to run the clock the whole weekend, and I would also pay for NYC cultural amusements, hotel, etc but would not add a bonus for her company unless there was playtime involved.  I think if the arrangement is at the lady's request, that changes the equation.  If it's my request, I would pay the entire freight, including non-playtime.  What think ye lads and ladies?

I didn't catch that Main1984 had judgment about where he stood - just enlightened. There are many different approaches - H+T you sound mostly about business, which is your prerogative.   There are plenty of providers who value the connections, the relationships, the experiences as much, or for some even more, than the money.  

What's with all these threads lately about clients wanting to marry, "date" or "be serious" with their provider?

I had been regularly seeing a lower end provider over the past year.  It came to the point that practically became her ATM.  It started with a lack of cigs,,,then toiletries....then food and then eventually rent.  Each time it was some new excuse/family emergency.  Hey, I guess it's the way I was raised...I'm a sucker for things like that.

IMO, if she is the one doing the asking and it's a "sex optional" date, I don't expect to, nor will I pay her for the "privilege" of taking her out on the town. As an old fashioned guy, I do pick up all the tabs just like I would when taking out any other woman, but don't expect to give me a bill for "your time" when the whole idea of going out was something you wanted to do in the first place.

I know exactly why she is with me, exactly what her motivation is and exactly how much it's going to set me back. That is fucking perfect, as far as I'm concerned.

Um no. I disagree.  Time is what these ladies provide. Last night I had a provider ask me if I wanted to go to local nightclub with her to see a musician she really liked. She already had her ticket and she checked to see if more were available. There were a few left, but  I politely said, "no". She persisted and offered to drive or stop by my place, and we could Uber it together." I again declined because I didn't assume it was OTC time. She didn't say it was outright. I think a provider would say, "HEY, I really like hanging out with you so the time together at the club would be OTC time." Maybe I was wrong, but I rather be wrong than have a misunderstanding. Did I get the feeling she liked me? OH YES, we had a nice session but any provider worth 350 an hr should give you that impression. The key is to remember that it's P4P and not dating.

Every lady here will admit that they expect to be compensated for their time, but I think few ladies would seriously consider your offer if you presented it to them.

Just said Hey babe you want to grab lunch with me manana ?  and let her say either
" No Main,I don't date my clients"
or
" Sure Main, my lunch package is 900 bones, when you wanna pick me up so I can get a sitter for my little dog."
or
" That would be fun, Main where do you want to meet?"

That doesn't mean your default setting should be that every hooker is into you, wants to see you for free and have your babies, but there is nothing wrong or even the least bit unusual that a provider might want to go out OTC with a client. Maybe because she likes you, maybe it's simply good customer relations, but either way what's wrong with two people going out and enjoying themselves without any money being exchanged?

Oh, no delusions that she liked me as anything more than a client. I've done favors for her (ride, lent money, etc), but I expected to pay for her time for lunch. I wasn't expecting $900 for two hours, which is more than I pay for two hours behind closed doors. Maybe she really DOESN'T like my company.

lol
I have known a maintainance technician have sex with a line worker on a pallet in a food processing plant.
I have had a boss fuck his secretary at lunch at the local knights inn.
I have known co workers hook up after a few too many at a sales conference.
Had a buddy working construction doing renovations at Kroger fuck the deli clerk on the night shift.

Many providers do have social rates, and even if she doesn't, she could have extended some type of concession to you...or, if it was really not worth her time, she could have explained what exigencies made her unable to meet 'just to chat' for a discounted rate. For example: kids need babysitter, other job is very busy, there's a lot of travel involved, she's refusing other appts, etc.  

It's the old "I don't mind fucking him, but are you telling me that I have to talk to him as well? Fuck That, that costs double" lol

I've been participating on the board since 2013 or so and its a reoccurring topic, love struck Johns.

Just because one gal is one way  doesn't mean everyone is the same.  I do hang out with people off the clock.  I do not charge people $75,000.00 to go on a trip.  I am low volume and I just need to cover my daily income.  Probably peanuts in comparison to many. Someone recently offered me $25,000.00 to go on a 4 day trip. Imo that kind of money is ridiculous for me to go on an all inclusive get  away.  I told him what I just told you all...just cover my 4 day income. A trip for two with all expenses paid plus my fees per day is a lot of money. However,  everyone is free to ask for whatever they damn well please.  If you agree to it then,  that's on you. $900.00 for lunch and conversation is pretty insane.  $450.00 per hour to eat steak and shoot the shit?!?!?  Maybe I need to rethink my M. O. lol  God bless her!  I do that for free lmao   maybe I'm the asshole here?  Wow 9 bills to have a free lunch....I'd just go for lunch every day!  Fuck shaving my legs and having lingerie imported...let's go have lunc

I ain't love struck, and I wasn't expecting anything for free. The way I phrased it was, "what would you charge to meet me for lunch sometime next week?"

I agree, however, I think the provider should make it very clear that the time is NOT on the clock when the time is not on the clock.  That way there are no assumptions. I may be wrong, but I'm not a mind reader ... since I got divorced, and a professional knows that most guys are going to assume that if the clothes are on that its OTC. Its not fair to the girl for guys to make assumptions other than she gets paid for her time. I'll get off the WK box. Fat boy  will want it back when he gets finished getting fucked up the ass.  

I don't think that most of the escorts are like that.  She obviously doesn't like the business and should find something else to do that she likes.

Posted By: Main1984

Over the past few days there's been threads by guys wanting opinions on traveling with a provider, getting into a full time relationship with one, and other situations that go beyond what happens behind closed doors during P4P.  
   
 In every thread, the general advice seemed to be that the guy should look objectively at his situation. Good advice.  
   
 There's a provider I've seen many times over the last 12 or so months. I've spent about $15,000 with her. I've never asked for anything OTC, and she's never offered. Right now I'm not able to have any sex because of a recent operation. It's out of the question. I enjoy her company, and would like to see her. I asked her what her rate would be just to have lunch and talk. She said she has a two hour lunch date package for $900.  
   
 I now know where I stand with her. I'll be taking a trip out of the country in a few months, and was considering taking a provider, as was another poster on the forum. I now know how to do the first step of screening for such an idea.

I find it simple to ask what she means without sounding crass. If a woman asks you to go out with her like this, simply ask "is this a date" "as friends" or "an appointment"??? Pretty simple and leaves no chance for hurt feelings or misunderstandings

Just like she complains about some of the posters here.

Maybe you should have prepped the Jebster for the debate last nite.  You surely have your hooker talking points in order.

I felt that my ATF and I were becoming real friends, however, I was perfectly aware that the illusion of a relationship is what a good performer does.  

AP  - I haven't read any posts that expect or presume a provider should do anything but charge for all of her time...if that's what she wants to do. And certainly no implications they should feel bad about doing that, or have to prove anything to anybody. Hopefully my post didn't express that and regret if it did.

Agree that providers are different and shouldn't be pigeonholed one way or another.

Of course, most providers aren't heartless bitches or overly greedy.  What I do find amazing is this guy who appears to be really a good client, is recovering my surgery and can't have sex wanting to have a friendly dinner (which I am sure would have lifted his spirits) and being told, in so many words- fuck you, that will cost you $900.  

I feel that this part of the situation is really odd. It's hard to imagine charging more to go eat dinner with someone vs an intimate appointment; it's certainly easier to show up at a restaurant for dinner with no expectations of play afterward. I wonder if there is a communication error or some other aspect we are missing out on (and I'm not implying OP has left something out - maybe he doesn't know), so I would hate to start judging until I heard the other side.

Would it be fine with a john if she was "on" for the time paid for...that can be worked out, and the rest of the time she can totally be herself, just like when she is working at home?  

I genuinely like them as people.  But you are right, I am all about the money and do not like working or free.

Besides chatting a little bit after time is up...that doesn't count. I usually only have one appointment scheduled per day/evening, so it's not like I need them out, or to be out, by X o'clock. A bit of extra chat often progresses naturally, and then ends naturally, within a reasonable time frame (say a half hour or so). But OTC dinners? Vacations? Hell no.

For one thing, every second I spend with a client is geared toward HIS enjoyment. To the point where I can't even say 'I'm tired'. To say 'I'm tired' suggests a wish to be away from a client, or that I am fatigued of his company. Instead, I'll say 'I'm sleepy,' which doesn't have the same connotation to me...it refers to a biological response to being awake for a long time, rather than an emotional response to a situation. But anyway, the point is, feeling under the microscope to that extent is exhausting.  

I have never expected anyone to spend time off the clock with me, but I have received many offers. Usually its just for drinks/lunch/...etc. Sadly it was always from someone I had little interest in seeing again.

Believe me this would still put you heads and shoulders over many of your peers. I have been in situations where I am extremely accommodating and yet she still makes everything about 'her' instead of being about me.

I think it should be a new "Hobbyist Code," rule, edict, or what have you. Etch it in stone somewhere.

Each of these instances are of people having sex with co-workers or colleagues. Which isn't the same as, say, a clerk hooking up with a regular customer of the store.

-- Modified on 10/30/2015 9:04:52 AM

If she is not genuinely having a good time, or if she really doesn't like my company and has to fake it, why in the world would I want to spend extended time with her in the first place?

I mean it's only your worst clients that feel entitled to OTC time in the first place. Your good and great clients may enjoy it if you offer it to them, but none of those clients are going to demand it in the first place. So, if you don't really enjoy the company of your clients DON'T DO IT!!!

I will agree that the workplace analogy falls flat and hooker/john relationships are not "workplace dating" so much as customer/service provider, but I think at least most of us have picked up a bartender or cocktail waitress at least once in our lives, and that's not a huge difference between "dating your hooker".

I will confess. GaGambler, the famous misogynist and TER board asshole is a "cuddler" lol

It's more of a boundary issue. I have very few clients with whom it would be a chore to have a nice steak dinner...I mean, REALLY But, like I said, most will misinterpret the OTC as more than it is...whether that is a willingness on my part to date, or just do more OTC...and more, and more...and more.

Just the hundreds of "I've fallen for a hooker and cant' get up" posts I suppose are proof of that.

I met at a time when I'd just moved to NYC, had no career (not even an appreciable escort career), no obligations, no classes, tons of free time, and no friends. So yea, I guess I was happy to have the company. Also, the second guy was planning to move away when we met...so, he knew that he'd be rid of me in a few months' time. LOL. Never thought of it that way.

Completely agree...I don't think many, if any, hobbyists on an extended trip or even an overnight would expect their companion to be on 24/7, to be all about the client every waking minute.  Longer engagements  are fun because they're more "real"...unrushed with fewer timelines  and  agendas.  Real includes the woman having fun, off-duty, and doing her own thing at times. Like any good time between 2  people it requires some effort and attention as well.

I can only speak for myself, but I only look for relationships that I know can't go anywhere. Most often I get into relationships with women who either live far away,  a different state or even a different country works perfectly. This puts the issue of fidelity way on the back burner as I don't really care what she does when I am not there to see, and the same thing in reverse.  

I see much younger (30+ years) providers for the same reason. No matter how "smitten" I might become, which hasn't happened, there's no chance I'd mistake it for something more than what it is: a business transaction.

I guess what I am saying is that its a point of interaction.  The appointment gives a familiarity
and if the chemistry is there then something may happen beyond the business.  Not saying anyone
should take p4p as a way to date just saying stuff just happens sometimes.

You said it. "At least once in our lifetimes" = not very good odds.

I mean ... if I were to count the number of girls I've hit on in my lifetime, and the rate of successes I've had ... holy crap. I'd have to say the total number of girls I've hit to be in the thousands. And the number of successes I've had landing a girl while she was working? That would be exactly TWICe.  Once with a girl (okay, she was a provider) working at an AMP, and before that a K-mart employee when I was in my 20's.

Much more sophistication, wisdom, life experience, patience, and so much else.

and I suppose maybe someday you will figure out that paying double doesn't get you twice the service, it just means most hookers will lose what little respect they had for you to begin with.

Not all of us have hookers tripping over themselves to give us full refunds on service.

I know a lot of women who wouldn't dream of dating a guy anywhere near their own age, and no these women are not "broken" its just a personal preference.  

Why is it that I do so well with hookers and you OTOH hand, even when you offer double the rate, still seem to get the women here to hate you?

We will have to have a 'weird' contest. And, a workout

I was glad to take a time out for the sake of standing up for myself and adhering to my principles.

a ha! I've tried "dating" millenials and the constant need to text drives me nuts.

I hate it when women try to please me, or put on some fake front. I find it patronizing; and it feels like nails on a chalk board.

Say a guy wants to watch the Billings, Montana football game (if there even is such a thing). Not my thing. But, I have my whole entire life to do *my thing*. It's always nice to do something different, and who knows, I might learn something, or discover something new. If it ends up being the most boring, insipid thing in the universe, I just keep in mind...this is how I make money to pay rent and do [insert activity I'm passionate about here]. Not a bad deal.

Say 'Well, I'm older than you.' To end every argument. WAY too much.  

Even my 78 year old mother and I have text or email conversations that might last a day or two.