I intended to put this on the DC board; operator error on my part.
Ref: http://www.theeroticreview.com/discussion_boards/viewmsg.asp?MessageID=239333&boardID=6&page=2#239333 by Yokozuna
It’s not new, especially in DC, but it seems it was rampant this past week.
Two ladies, both very, very good and well-reviewed, came to DC (separately, not a traveling pair).
Both shelled out substantial $$$ for plane tickets and rooms. Both did so because of guys asking them to come this week and promising an overnight by them.
First lady: 3 days hotel, had 7 guys scheduled before she arrived. ONE showed, and only 2 of the others even wrote/called to CX. She left with a loss over $1500.
Second lady: 4 nights, had 5 appointments including 3 overnights. ONE showed (one of the overnight guys; picked up 2 appointments after she arrived to fill some of the CXd time. Both flaked. One guy left screaming her photos weren’t her on her website which is BS since I took those pictures less than a month ago in her home city. Left with a loss of almost $2K, largely because she let a guy talk her into coming on short notice, thus higher airfare. He was one of the NC/NSs after arranging an 18 hr date.
DC has always had a rep for this kind of stuff, and it’s getting worse.
Thanks very much to all the inconsiderate asses in DC for making it very difficult on all of us who don’t pull that crap. It’s bad enough with a local lady for an outcall, but when you are the primary instigator for a lady to travel here and you blow her off and just say “Tough luck, that’s just business”, that is pretty sick. When you ask for someone by name, it’s a special order; the guy should be responsible for a goodly chunk of the airfare at least.
If a guy wants a girl to make a specific trip out, he should guarantee her business and put a deposit down, plain and simple.
That's totally different than a guy just booking with a girl who is visiting and having to cancel because of something that came up.
Having said that, you can't really control that. All you can do is control your own actions.
for these specific reasons, yet still get a PM box full of "London, do you ever visit such and such?" Yes, I sure do....when you pay to get me there. I also require a deposit for any date over 3 hours, and that includes local dates. It is simply not worth my time to deal with people who are inconsiderate. It really makes no difference what happened, and the most common is always work related. Simple solution....don't book with a hooker if you know damn well your work issues are so unpredictable, or at the very least pay her damn costs!
I did the touring thing for 2 years and it was fun for the most part, but got old really quick. For those who say, "Just go out and do something vs. sitting in your hotel room." Um no shit, but that costs MORE MONEY and that is just plain stupid from a business standpoint. Sure, let me go spend more money on a cab to go downtown and shop, when I am already at a loss.
It is not about the boredom, because one can easily find stuff to do. It is the time we took to be away from our FAMILIES so you could bust your nut, which by the way you chose to do with your money. So for those saying, she can just make that up next month..I say a big FK YOU! If I take a week to go make money away from my child, that is ANOTHER week I have to be away again to make up for it dumb ass!
Hobbyists are not out of the same money we are in this scenario...bullshit! YOU were going to spend that 300-1000 bucks anyway! You actually saved the damn donation if a provider flakes on you minus maybe your gas and hotel bill, and most of you do incall anyway so you're not even out of that.
I agree, nothing will change unless the provider changes it herself and many are following suit. Pretty soon even a gal 5 min. away will require a damn deposit to even bother with some of you, and BP will be the only way for you to get a girl to see you.
As to the person who suggested last minute appts....yes, and how exactly do your propose we screen those guys? It can take 2 days for some providers to even respond! Last minute appts. are very common with LE and rip off guys because they know a lady might be desperate due to a bad trip already, and many will just think dollar signs vs. safety. Fk that. I would rather lose a few hundred than have to pay bail money.
Guys who always wait for another hobbyist to foot his bill so he can spend a mere hour with an out of town provider, are to be avoided...it is not someone else's job to get a provider to town for YOU! Want her there that bad? Either pay her to be there upfront, or don't bother asking.
-- Modified on 11/24/2012 2:25:56 PM
Personally, I have had a miserable week of hobbying. Considering it was my B-Day week and I decided I wanted to save up a go nuts...I have called it quits on the week after I had an outcall NCNS on me. We talked at 2, she said she was on the way and would be there in 35 min. At 4 I tried her...nothing....at 5 tried her...nothing...at 6 she finally answers the phone and says She had to stop by a friends house and got held up there at a party.
So with my Bday week utterly fucking destroyed, I have decided to go with Asian Outcall services only from now on. Yeah, the pics are fake...and finding a GFE is impossible...but at least you know that going in, and they show up in 30 min or less. I can't even get the local pizza place to do that.
Forgive me for being a miserable fuck right now...but it's only because I am a miserable fuck right now. 3 appointments with new to me reviewed girls...only one worth reviewing makes for a bad week. Thank God it started out with a regular...otherwise I would probably be going postal right now.0
Perhaps I should have flown to DC.
-- Modified on 11/23/2012 4:42:20 PM
Granted the guys showed no class in NCNS, but prudent business practice would dictate a deposit of some sort for extended visits, especially if outside your home turf.
It’s not new, especially in DC, but it seems it was rampant this past week.
Two ladies, both very, very good and well-reviewed, came to DC (separately, not a traveling pair).
Both shelled out substantial $$$ for plane tickets and rooms. Both did so because of guys asking them to come this week and promising an overnight by them.
First lady: 3 days hotel, had 7 guys scheduled before she arrived. ONE showed, and only 2 of the others even wrote/called to CX. She left with a loss over $1500.
Second lady: 4 nights, had 5 appointments including 3 overnights. ONE showed (one of the overnight guys; picked up 2 appointments after she arrived to fill some of the CXd time. Both flaked. One guy left screaming her photos weren’t her on her website which is BS since I took those pictures less than a month ago in her home city. Left with a loss of almost $2K, largely because she let a guy talk her into coming on short notice, thus higher airfare. He was one of the NC/NSs after arranging an 18 hr date.
DC has always had a rep for this kind of stuff, and it’s getting worse.
Thanks very much to all the inconsiderate asses in DC for making it very difficult on all of us who don’t pull that crap. It’s bad enough with a local lady for an outcall, but when you are the primary instigator for a lady to travel here and you blow her off and just say “Tough luck, that’s just business”, that is pretty sick. When you ask for someone by name, it’s a special order; the guy should be responsible for a goodly chunk of the airfare at least.
They had been trusting, but I suspect they have been cured of that.
The girls who listen to the hobbyists who preach..."don't ever give a deposit", that's who.
Yoko didn't get into details of the incidents on the boards..
Old Traveler - Thanks for sharing this, but I just don't feel that bad for the ladies.. They are in business for themselves, and some days they will make profit, some day they will lose money. That's what free enterprise is all about...
Your posts just makes my convictions stronger that the ladies are poor businesswomen.. They should have asked for some sort of cash advance through Paypal or such before agreeing to fly out. They should have covered their bases. When you buy a house, doesn't the realtor ask your earnest check? Apply the same principle here..
It is not DC residents' fault. Some people in general are unprofessional. Too bad it happened, but lessons learned...At least I hope they learned the lesson.. We need to stop being such a cry baby society and learn from our failures..
I sincerely hope that they use the experience to empower themselves..
-- Modified on 11/23/2012 5:32:03 PM
... both ways in this type of business.
I've lost a lot of money due to "cash and dash" situations. Did I give up the hobbying?
Nope!
I just got a bit wiser and started using resources such as TER to weed out the flakes. Thankfully, TER has "bailed" me out on a few occasions.
I bet those 2 ladies make thousands per month, so losing a grand for a trip that is not guaranteed (in terms of deposits) is always a financial risk.
Do you think that those ladies will quit the business now? I doubt it. They will learn from it and move on.
Serpius
Old Traveler - Thanks for sharing this, but I just don't feel that bad for the ladies.. They are in business for themselves, and some days they will make profit, some day they will lose money. That's what free enterprise is all about...
Your posts just makes my convictions stronger that the ladies are poor businesswomen.. They should have asked for some sort of cash advance through Paypal or such before agreeing to fly out. They should have covered their bases. When you buy a house, doesn't the realtor ask your earnest check? Apply the same principle here..
It is not DC residents' fault. Some people in general are unprofessional. Too bad it happened, but lessons learned...At least I hope they learned the lesson.. We need to stop being such a cry baby society and learn from our failures..
I sincerely hope that they use the experience to empower themselves..
-- Modified on 11/23/2012 5:32:03 PM
I’m sorry, but you don’t have much of a clue about the economics of most ladies.
No, they don’t make “thousands a month”. And most the guys are TER members (not all from what they said).
Yes, I suspect they will indeed learn. And many of the guys they ask for a deposit from now on will gripe and complain.
in from out of town, he should be willing to shell out cash upfront...Fair and simple..
and I can be a big fucking mangina, too 
But the truth is, you are 100% right on this.
I feel bad for the ladies, and I hate to see a trusting nature get slapped out of a person.
But, as we are reminded at every turn, this is a business; in business, if you take a risk you
have to be prepared to take a loss, and you can't cry about it - it's part of the deal. And if
you want to minimize your risk in this instance, you get a deposit. This is not a tragedy, it's
a learning experience.
That doesn't negate the fact that the guys who flaked are losers, or that there may be
more of a problem in DC, and it IS a problem for anybody who wants to hobby in DC
if more and more quality providers take notice and stop traveling there.
A traveling lady is a traveling lady. Everything she does is on speck unless she is booked by specific and KNOWN client up front. I'm not unsympathetic to the issue. I know a couple of gals who have had similar experiences but it's part of the job. If a guy wants to book exclusively and is willing to pay the air fair and hotel that sort of thing needs to be negotiated up front and, if it's a new customer, a deposit should be secured.
No shows suck regardless of if they are local or long distance but it goes with the territory.
Many providers, myself included, use an absorption rate formula against the break even point to book a tour. Pre-bookings minus anticipated no shows divided by expenses needs to be at least 80% of costs. The remaining expense and net profit come from on-tour bookings. This has always proved to be a reliable forecasting model for the overall success of the trip, and is especially critical for short tours. My last two trips to DC were a net loss because the pre-book no shows and cancelations far exceeded what had always been a very predictable number for other cities. As a result, I no longer risk touring DC. I believe that was the OP's point.
That was indeed part of the point. Yes, things happen. Things seem to be happening a lot more often in DC than most other places.
That being said, a post on the general board is going to draw responses from all of us, not just the poor bastards who have to hobby in DC. I don't know if the OP put this on the DC board as well or not but it seems like he should have...
I intended to put this on the DC board; operator error on my part.
....how much prior to their visit do these visiting ladies start pre-booking?
If it's too early, that may be it.
If you ask me what I'll be doing in a month oon a Tuesday, I may be able to predict that I'll be free, but I won't know for sure. Things always come up at the last minute
That blows!!! BUT if I too an Overnight I will get a deposit. Many times when people want overnights they flake out. It really is 50/50. I am from DC and provided for years in Dc and northern Virgiinia and it has treated me very well. It does go with the territory though. Hate o say it but it is true. I have gone on trips that bombed. Yes I was past and not happy at all but the I went on other trips and I made bank.
Don't rule DC out!!
Well, I think some form of advance payment is a good idea if a lady has to travel by plane to get to another city.
it the lady is
A) blocking a large time slot like overnight
B) incurring expenses like travel costs
Just as I would not overnight with someone I'd not met at all... the reciprocal might not be a bad idea.
Never the less, I would feel responsible for the booking... It's an oral contract. It might not be enforceable but it's not right.
HV
.....happens to touring providers all over the place.... coming here and leaving.
I was booked up nice or so I thought for MPLS until all but 2 multi-hr appts canceled (very last minute at that without shit more than an a sorry lol....that was fun). And the "filler" requests were all last minute "jewels" who didn't want to be screened. WOOHOO. I'd have to take a small deposit (25%) for every appt non-frickin' refundable to even bother (yes bother) to attempt there again. I thought it was a joke like are they in cahoots to get me here and cancel to teach some strange lesson. Boy it felt like it lol. 4 out of 5 of my day there were a waste of time and money well I broke even plus a smidge extra but not even close to what I should've earned.
So *coughs* it's not just DC. Burlington VT was crap too. Maybe they do figure the next guy will pick up for his slack....dunno.
"Tough luck, cost/risk of business" can kiss my big pretty ass. lol
NC/NS and ridiculously last minute cancellations cost money too (esp if they know it's not true/excuse is BS and knowing I can't exactly call them a liar).
It’s not new, especially in DC, but it seems it was rampant this past week.
Two ladies, both very, very good and well-reviewed, came to DC (separately, not a traveling pair).
Both shelled out substantial $$$ for plane tickets and rooms. Both did so because of guys asking them to come this week and promising an overnight by them.
First lady: 3 days hotel, had 7 guys scheduled before she arrived. ONE showed, and only 2 of the others even wrote/called to CX. She left with a loss over $1500.
Second lady: 4 nights, had 5 appointments including 3 overnights. ONE showed (one of the overnight guys; picked up 2 appointments after she arrived to fill some of the CXd time. Both flaked. One guy left screaming her photos weren’t her on her website which is BS since I took those pictures less than a month ago in her home city. Left with a loss of almost $2K, largely because she let a guy talk her into coming on short notice, thus higher airfare. He was one of the NC/NSs after arranging an 18 hr date.
DC has always had a rep for this kind of stuff, and it’s getting worse.
Thanks very much to all the inconsiderate asses in DC for making it very difficult on all of us who don’t pull that crap. It’s bad enough with a local lady for an outcall, but when you are the primary instigator for a lady to travel here and you blow her off and just say “Tough luck, that’s just business”, that is pretty sick. When you ask for someone by name, it’s a special order; the guy should be responsible for a goodly chunk of the airfare at least.
Wow, just wow..
I tell you what, I read some of the responses to this post and am infuriated by the "it always ends up being the providers fault" mentality..
Its like we are damned if we do and damned if we dont with some of you guys.
This is not going to be a friendly, sweet, politically correct response.
And more than likely will get some bashing in return,,
Yes, we all could take deposits, but we have all seen THOSE threads havent we?
The " Who does she think she is and how dare she ask for money upfront" posts,,
And then avid and long term hobbyists claiming from mount high that they would never pay any kind of deposit up front and suggest that no one else does the same..
We have half of you bitching about paying a deposit and then we have the other half bitching that we should have charged a deposit...
We have half of you bitching about "Our stringent Cancellation policies" and the other half bitching about not having a clear "stringent Cancellation policy"
Seriously reading alot of these threads ,, you guys make it "DAMNED IF YOU DO, DAMNED IF YOU DONT" position for providers.
And then we have the guy who makes the comment about " The ladies poor business practices"
And then we have the guy who had a bad week in the hobby ,, boohoo ladies canceled on you and it ruined your birthday week?? And the whole "it happens both ways"?!?! UGH
Sorry, but when you have a bad week in the hobby it means you didnt call enough girls ,, for every provider that cancels on you there are a ton willing to step in and take their place.
On the flip side of that, because of the market and how saturated it is with providers, you can find every dish for every appetite, but we have to compete for your dollars. And there is alot of competition out there.
Its not the same,, a provider cancels on you or NCNS, you can jerk off ,, a client cancels on a provider we are out MONEY.. and lets just go with a base average of $250 an hour for the sake of the argument.
Is there some misconception out there that if you dont show we have someone right behind you to make up for that?
Is there some misconception floating out there that we just have cash flowing out of our ears and our job is as easy as just laying on our backs ?
And please dont get me wrong, I love being a provider, I love the clients that I meet and I have alot of fun,, but im not going to sugar coat a damn thing to smooth over ruffled feathers of future potential clients who think I have to play nice to make money...
Factor in Flight, Hotel, Food Costs,,, but its more than that.. There is advertising costs , time spent screening and verifying, paying our assistants if we have one.. and upkeep..
Yeah upkeep,, you know because we dont fucking wake up looking like super models, there is maintenance to keep ourselves looking good to please you. Costs that you guys seem to take for granted. For the most part we dont walk into an appointment looking like we just woke up.
Most of us go out of our way to look hot. Hair, makeup, lingerie, clothing etc..
Then ofcourse for us safety girls, we like to make sure our vagina's are in tip top shape as well , so there are medical costs that should be factored in. Our monthly trips to our Dr. to make sure we are not STD carriers, because, lets be honest shall we , condoms are NOT 100% safe.
So you factor in all these costs before we even book the trip.
And there is a difference in NCNS on an hour appointment,, but if you NCNS on anything over a 4 hour date to an overnight, then I think you deserve to be paraded in front of the community as an asshat.
And for multiple hour and extended dates to overnights we are talking about 1000-5000 depending on the girl.
I work as a provider and a personal assistant, so I am aware of all things that are factored into costs and recovery of those costs. And it floors me everytime I see a hobbyist take some pretentious attitude about ladies lacking in good business practices.
When do hobbyists get to be held accountable?
We have bills just like you, we have homes, cars, loans and some of us have kids ,,
This is our job, for some its their livlihood and only source of income.. for you its a "hobby" ...
We base our time traveling on the bookings we get in advance. How long we are going to stay somewhere how much we are going to pay for a hotel , all based on pre-bookings and taking a MAN FOR HIS WORD.. Yet on one hand we are not supposed to trust a verified client? WE are supposed to take a deposit ? And we have it drilled into our heads about screening and provider references and how great TER, p411, date-check clients are blah blah blah..
Only for you guys to turn around and bitch about our STRICT BUSINESS PRACTICES..
RRRRAAAAAWWWWWWRRRRRRRRR
You go through screening and provide all that information, and then book an extended date and NCNS?!?! No, that is totally unacceptable and should be called out.
There is a HUGE difference between a provider NCNS on you and a provider ripping you off because of a cash and dash.
If a provider NCNS she is out money and shes a bad mark for it. Ive seen several posts where hobbyists warn of NCNS on a provider who failed to show for an hour appointment. And there are several hobbyists who dont mind hurting her business because of it. So why not use the blacklists to report clients that NCNS on extended dates or overnights?
I'll be honest, if I got through the process of screening and verification and its a 4 hour or more date, and ive set aside that time and the guy NCNS, ill use those lists .
And frankly if I lose potential clients because I utilize the tools that are available at my disposal for identifying problematic clients that NCNS on $1000 or more, then im ok with that.
I know shocking right ?
Hobbyists use the review boards to identify problematic providers, so its only fair that the shoe is on the other foot for problematic clients.
Thank god there are posters like the OP who doesnt have problem standing up in his community and calling a spade a spade,, versus playing the "blame the provider" game...
Its time for that to stop, and its time to start showing common fucking courtesy..
This is a business, and when you have a business meeting in your little world the same rules apply.
If you had a meeting with a client, or you had a meeting with your boss in your job, you wouldnt just not show up and not call,, So that should not be acceptable practice in this industry either.
But if you are going to call providers out on their unacceptable practices,, be prepared to have your unacceptable hobbyists practices called out as well...
Love and Light,
Catrina ... meow meow
And I completely agree with everything you said. I don't care if it is a business arrangement. I still demand of myself that I behave as a gentleman. When it is all said and done, I have to be able to sleep with myself and my conscience. I haven't had to cancel yet at all but I have been significantly late twice. Both times, I still paid for the full time and left at the previously scheduled time. They were more than willing to adjust with no immediately following clients but my mindset is why should she have to adjust her day on the fly because I am directionally challenged.
I commend you for your post. Yeah, you will probably catch some flack for it. I imagine you don't want them as clients anyway!
The crap you ladies put up with from these guys is monumental. They have it so no matter which way you turn, you're going to cop it. With the very few exceptions, this board is pretty indicative of how they function. To them it is all part of the deal to keep the hookers in line and off balance. That's why you see half of them say one thing and the other half say another. So, you get shit from at least half of them no matter what you do. That was taught at the HDHA in year 2, semester 3.
Now Catrina, watch what happens when a hooker disagrees ....that's taught in semester 1 day 2...how to deal with a hooker who goes against the hooker 101 rules.
-- Modified on 11/24/2012 5:55:53 AM
Thank freaking goodness, or we would have all hung up our hooker heels long ago.
-- Modified on 11/24/2012 3:30:47 PM
In my civie life, while I was in sales, there were many, many trips booked with flights, hotels, etc., hoping to make or close a deal. It was my risk and not all trips were successful. I've flown across the country on numerous occasions to come home with nothing but a pile of expenses but there were many times I had very successful trips. It's a roll of the dice. I never got compensated for the dead ends but if the successful trips didn't make up for it I'd have found a new line of work.
Yes, this is a different "industry" but the parameters are somewhat similar in that one takes a certain amount of risk and this is true for both hobbyists who travel and get NCNS and providers who do the same. One of the ladies posted that the lady is out of money while the hobbyist can simply jerk off. Not necessarily true as I've traveled to see providers on several occasions and had NCNS's. As a result, I chose not to travel soley for the reason of hobbying as I've gotten tired of being burned, but that's my preference. And, BTW, I'm too old to jerk off.
Yes, it's unfortunate for any NCNS or last minute cancellation but it happens and will continue to happen. It's not a perfect world for any of us and sad to say, it's simply one of the risks we all take by partaking of this activity.
Now with all of that said, in the business world I was taught to never miss an appointment, be on time and be prepared. My business training and attitude carried over to my personal life but the real world is what it is and sometimes we have to cope with unreliable people who have little respect for someone else's time, efforts, and money. It's just a fact of life.