For those who have had "relationships" -- i.e., a connection with a provider (or for providers, a connection w/ a hobbyist) that went beyond the limits of a client-provider relationship --
What did you/do you like best about it?

For me, there's lots, starting with the fact that I've never had such a relationship that operated on the same wavelength or set of rules as a civvie relationship -- it was rather like visiting a strange country (and sometimes living in it [lol]).

But even more than that, I think what I've liked best is the fragility, delicacy and elegance of the connection.  It can be beautiful, mesmerizing and ultimately, its beauty is rooted in its ephemeral quality.  

Others?

...relationships with providers. A relationship with a hobbyist would be, well, too gay for me... not that there's anything wrong with that.

Made a great connection with a 6 1" 26 ish woman from Latvia who was trying to stay after her visa ran out... worked for small agency and when she broke away someone dropped a dime on her and she was busted...She semi- soured on the biz, but we stayed in touch until she could no longer stay (the arrest didn't help). She spoke decent English and she had a great taste in music so we did the horizontal mambo a lot between a few dinners and talks on the phone. I dare say we'd still be friends, but the distance only brings the occasional e-mail and I lament the loss of a young, but highly sensual woman who didn't get the breaks she needed in the USA. Score 1 for the anti-immigration zealots.

I asked a question somewhat similar to yours about providers and their relationships outside the hobby....and responses were unkind to say the least.  Looking forward to what MorganEllis has to say....maybe she'll show you more respect than she showed me and my question!  BTW tell us how your story ended.

I have been surprised at the potential for meaningful relationships that exists between a provider and her customer. There is no doubt that sometimes two people meet and a "special connection" takes place(I have read about this happening often, and have experienced it to a degree).

Hobbyists have proven themselves time and again to be generous, thoughtful, respectful, helpful and demonstrate a great deal of care for their Hobby and fellow Hobbyists.

I never expected this when I began to participate!

'...beautiful, mesmerizing....beauty.... ephemeral quality' Are you serious? You're joking, right?

You mean there was nothing between us.

I'm presently in a relationship with an escort and have developed a unique connection. I'm divorced after 20 years of marriage and am experiencing feelings I've never felt. This hottie is seeing me strictly off the clock and insists on paying her way when we're out, or travel. I've given up the hobby, but she continues to work. She has serious "game" half of the time, which might be what part of the attraction is ( not knowing if she'll call tomorrow, or be gone forever at the drop of a hat, if I say or do the wrong thing...or whatever). No threats about leaving or childish games like that. Just plays hard to get (but ultimately gives in) and acts like it's no big deal if she calls every day for a week and then not at all for two. But the other half of the time she is totally defenseless, all mine, wanting to please me, giving her trust and emotions freely, and just "hold me tight" type of needy. I know with the moral standards I've grown-up with that I shouldn't have even ventured into the hobby after my divorce, and definitely should not get attached to an escort that is so very different from me and seems unwilling to attempt to enter the civvie work force. She is young, very pretty and you could look to Jessica Alba for body comparison. She has no real financial obligations other than her own survival, and guys would line up to take on that responsibility if she could give up the hobby. I'm sick to my stomach every minute I'm not with her (and it's not just the sex, it's the "connection" we somehow fulfill a need for each other. She has actually suggested we enjoy each other for three months and then cut it off for both of our sakes. I can't bear the thought of it ending now..... or in three months....but can't see myself having a future with her. This should be a dream come true situation for a guy on the rebound and not looking to get married again any time soon, but can't deal with the feelings which effect my sleep, work, and general decision making and drive. Going to see a shrink in a few days but am open to others thoughts/experiences.

Nothing is expected beyond the immediate.  You're right, it's ephemeral.  Anything else you find in it is a pleasant surprise.

See the Erotic Highway on your left.

almost..as I "never lived in it"...lol

Been there more than once...albeit ephemerally(like that word...lol)

What I liked the best?

The best sex a man and a woman could ever have!

How good?

http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/Bungalow/3283/cigaret.wav

Cheers!

I was deeply touched by seriouslyneedhelp's post.  I was in a marriage for 10 years, and it ended abruptly because my ex divorced (or more accurately traded me in) me for a younger model.  You cannot imagine what that did to my ego or my ability to think of myself as even moderately worth knowing.

Fortunately (or not) there was a strip club near work... and as the divorce proceeded, I would go there to grab a beer before going home.  One specific dancer started talking to me, just talking.  At one point, she said, "Hey, you look different!" to which I responded - I received my final divorce decree today.  her response? "Gee, maybe now you will ask me out."  thus began a friendship, that salvaged some of my self esteem.... I should add that we are friends and not lovers... she will call if her car breaks down for a ride home - and I provide... or if I need a date for a function, she will go.... yea, kinda like that.... other guys drool when I am with her, but I really value what she did for me!

I can understand his need for the kindness of human (read female) companionship.  I can also appreciate that many ladies in this profession give of themselves to the extent that one would nominate them for sainthood.

But I also realize the transitory aspects of the fantasy, and it sounds as if seriouslyneedhelp does as well.  

Mr. Fisher, you are fortunate... wish that we were all so fortunate.

to seriouslyneedhelp, I would suggest that you adopt the mindset that you can enjoy what is there and what is freely offered.  beyond that, well, it is a dream.  be well, and know that at least one other on this board, read your post, and sympathizes....  

be well.

It is not enjoyable.... too many games, too much "here is my list of perfection" can you measure up... too much "what are YOU going to do for ME!?" and way too much, "you must change, because I do everything the right way, and you are dirt"

Providers?  even those that hint at a possible otc arrangement, know that if they demand changes, changes, in a fair world, will be demanded of them.  They are refreshingly candid about their emotions and feelings.  While also not afraid of sexual expression.

Civies are the exact opposite.  no, comparing the two?  sadly I cannot - so I agree - the two things operate differently - have a different baseline and are not composed of the same elements - so - no comparison is possible.

A provider I know met her boyfriend doing this. Then when it got a little too real for him (that she was occasionally still working per their previous arrangement that this was fine) he hit the road and left her a mess. This was a few months ago and she still wonders if she screwed up because the possibility was there for forever, she said. Don't know if I'd be able to handle the same, so I resist the urge to ask my ATF to be my woman.

Men leave women.  For a host of reasons.  I left one of the kindest, sweetest ladies that I ever dated while I was a mere kid.  I was so dumb.  All the bad stuff that happened to me in life, I trace back to dumping her.  Evelynn, whereever you are, I am truly sorry.  So you see, we guys can be a fickle lot.  Believe it or not, this guy may have left her for "this reason" or not.  

A dear friend of mine while in her early 20s lost her mom to breast cancer.  She, just a few months later, was diagnosed with breast cancer.  Her comment to me was that she was grateful to have a boyfriend who would stand by her.  He was there as she went under the knife, but when she awoke, all she found was a note saying that he could not live with her after the surgery....

Assholes can be found everywhere, and they use every excuse to justify the use of the oxygen that they breathe.  She should get down on her knees and thank god that he left her.  There are guys out there who can handle it.  There are guys out there who are stronger than that.  There are guys out there who are stand-up kinda joes....   they are not asswipes, and they are decent.  some of them hobby.

But in this "hobby" provider and hobbiest, tend to grow a thicker skin, it takes more effort to get in, and it takes more effort to convey sincerity.  but more than anything else, it takes more effort to move through it and find the people inside the tough outer shell....

Have I done that? no. but have I opened up?  not really.  I am just being honest.... Tell your provider friend - she is lucky, she was not my friend with breast cancer.... after all being a provider is only a job, having to survive cancer is a life or death situation....

I am so sorry that a shallow one found her.

Reear Mr. Fisher,

Superdude, thanks for the support. Thanks to Fisher also. Actually, I expected much harsher feedback. And what I really need is to hear a thousand times and a thousand different ways that I'm crazy to be playing with fire. Superdude thank you for also sharing part of your story. We have some similarities....I was dumped by SO, and was shocked and too damaged to enter the regular dating world, hence my stint in the hobby. Also, my new special friend made the first move.
I willingly gave up tons of $ for the important things...the kids, but some could argue my behavior of recent could potentially have a negative impact on my future custody. My needs and priorities are very confused and I am looking in many different directions for help.

-- Modified on 6/7/2006 4:05:38 PM

in the short time that she has graced these pages, I have found her advice to be solid, just the thing that SNH should need.

His situation is complicated (What isn't?)  I was tempted to attempt an answer, but thought better of it since LG is now on board.

I do wish my good fortune upon all of us, and especially you BS.  

I feel a kindredship with you, and I don't say that lightly, ever.

I've just recently broken off with my ATF due to several differences of opinion.But the thing that I'll always remember fondly with her was being able to openly talk to each other about anything and everything.She was more than just a sex partner to me,she was a very close friend.Or so I thought.She'd give me extra time and discounts as well.Sadly,I found out that this lady,who I thought I knew as a quality person,turned out to be very cold and self-centered and was playing me for a sucker the whole time.The thing that I took from this experience is that no matter how nice,sweet and caring they appear to be to you,you are only a dollar sign to them unfortunately,and that to look at them as anything other than a business transaction is a big mistake! One which I had to find out the hard way. Believe me,I once felt as you did,but because of this recent situation,I've suddenly become very cynical towards all providers.Is it wrong to group them all together like that? Probably,and there may be some golden hearted ladies out there to be had.But I say,let someone else find them and choose your ATF wisely! Best of luck with your ATF!

I find that not only am I okay with being alone but actually enjoy it sometimes. I guess it's because I'd rather be alone than with someone who torments me. Unfortunately, there are times (still) that I remember those exciting first dates I had in my twenties. I remember when men used to bring flowers, we (women) would cook for them and they -- in return -- would do something nice for us and take us out, too. I remember that when you met someone who really floated your boat that is was common place to become boyfriend and girlfriend immediately after the first date. I miss the commitment sometimes. Now, I feel like I'm just the next flavor of the month. I think I miss getting the jitters when I kissed someone who actually wanted to be my boyfriend and not just get into my pants.

What happened to that wonderfully romantic courting era? Men do not do these things anymore, or at least haven't for me in the past 10 years. And, if you're on a first date with them, they immediately tell you how they detest their past girlfriend (or ex-wife) and comment on how they don't want to ever get involved again. Well, that may be true but what a turn-off. I guess there's no one out there that still likes romance and wants to meet their true love. I guess people assume that your first wife or husband is the only one. That's a shame! Gees, people! Now I'm depressed.

Hugs,
Ciara

-- Modified on 6/6/2006 7:31:11 PM

-- Modified on 6/6/2006 7:33:46 PM

You're right. I can think of a few chicks I dated over the course of my life where there was nothing really WRONG per se, but I left. One of them I feel badly for because I left her for her best friend, who was ultimately a raving psycho and couldn't hold a candle to her best friend, but there you go. I went where my dick told me. Even now aside from my ATF, there hasn't really been anyone that has gotten to me. I'd say that thick skin has developed that you speak of.

I wish you were a bit happier!  and that life a bit brighter for you.   and while I am a bit cynical, I do have things in my life that constantly remind me of hope, love, trust and faith in others (I hope you have those too, but just 'misplaced them' for a short while).  They remind me, that I am only an extension of the family of man and that without some human compasion we are all not much more than wild animals.

What saddens me about my civie dating, is that I do try to be romantic - only to be told - "hey - I get my own door..." or "I will pay my own way, I don't want you to think I owe you anything...."

with providers - especially some - it is "the good part of the date, the gazing into a ladies eyes, without an incriminating stare, just holding someone who at the very least acts like she wants to be held... most of all, someone who laughs at her dates silly mistakes (and not at her date) that happen because of very well meaning gestures on his part... but still silly mistakes happen...  Perhaps providers could write the perfect manual for civies and civie dating and romance.  

Would I buy my date flowers...?  Well they don't keep so well, but a nice wine, or a rememberance.... that would be nice.  am I different to civie dates?  not really.  And I appreciate the touches of kindness to me, the dress that fulfills a fantasy, a nice surprise of an unexpected call, or even a shared laugh...  all good stuff.

Perhaps it is not so much the items that fill each moment of each day, but rather finding the items that "make" each day....

Getting older certainly makes you appreciate more, that which is offered, as opposed to that which you demand.  Things are as you find them, and where you find them....  

uh oh, now Bizzaro get sad.... lol! I now look back on my subject line... and consider that I guess I am not speechless.... only get that way when something kinda dazzles me.  

I'm just merely pointing out that romance has gone out of the dating world. You (yourself) said, "Hey, I'll get my own door" and "I'll pay my own way." I don't know who you've dated, but perhaps they are the wrong people. Anyway, I think everyone has a defense mechanism built into themselves these days. I was just observing how the civie dating world is. And yes, it's much different than yeas ago. A lof of people tell me that. Gees! Don't make it sound like I'm going to commit suicide here dear. Believe me when I say that I'm a strong woman and not too much gets me down (at least not for long). Cheer up! You need to visit Phoenix again.

Hugs,
Ciara

You've got a friend!!!!

I know what you are saying.
While I'm not in the dating market, I see it in the friends my daughters bring home.
There isn't the "politeness", the "respect" that I grew up with.
It's hard to instill that, but I am trying very hard to teach it to my son.

I know you weren't speaking to me specifically, but I need to get to Phoenix also!
I miss you.

Just my opinion...
B

and more gets through than I would wish.  Occasionally I do get dinged.  Nothing serious, but enough to let me know that my emotions are intact and that I can and do develop emotions for various and asundry folk.  That is a good thing, I guess, although it does sting!  lol

Best movie I have seen in a while is the "break up" with J Aniston and Vince Vaughn (maybe his best 'acting' role to date).  I liked it because of the way they ended it.  and perhaps that is why the critics and public did not like it... the ending.  a bit too real!  but the movie depicts the pain that accompanies emotions gone awry.  And yea.... could I go back into time and talk to me... what would I say?  what would I not say!  

so, now I need a time machine as well as a teleporter LOL!  

-- Modified on 6/7/2006 6:26:47 AM

Anyone who does not realize that my kids are #1 to me, just does not get it.  Recently I chased a lady to just get her phone #!   she finally said yes, lets go out, here is my # - in the process I found out that she too has a kid!  I was very happy about that.... she asked why?  My response, cause people without kids, never get it.  You will understand if I say, sorry, can't make it, family emergency!  and sometimes that emergency is just sitting a talking with my daughter about something that is important to her, or talking to my son's coach about why he is not getting court time... I know, those just seem like stupid things... but to the kids, they are important.

My ex, has enough skeletons in her closet, that I am not too worried about that.... and we have over the years, calmed down to the point of actually being cordial.... once I locked the keys to my car, AND my cell phone with all my numbers in the car!  So who could I call?  you guessed it, my ex.  and yes, she came...and helped me... but I would do same for her. (I know I have bad mouthed here in here, and she deserved it, but she also deserves some kudos as well).  

Do not enter the "regular dating world" until you are good and ready.  That is soooo different from normal as to be insane.  Even people who set me up, apologize - and I don't even tell them what happened!  

But even in "Hobby World" be careful.  While not as caustic as civie, you can still get bruised!  

and yes, for the most part, I have found that honest questions in TER deserve and get honest answers.

Ciara, you put a smile on my face a few months ago and gave me memories to last a lifetime.  However, I will get to PHX again to see you.

"When you smile the world smiles back at you." Love that statement and it's true.

Hugs,
ciara

Ciara, I feel your pain dear! It all has to do with the 'age of innocence' that we all go through early on in life....the time when a date meant holding hands at most or a goodnight kiss at the door...But, there's no reason to give up on that in later life. It's up to you to delineate the limits of closeness with your date! No reason to despair, it takes finding the right guys and believe me, some are still around!

xoxo

I'm not in despair but thank you for your concern. I'm merely pointing out the difference in dating from the 70s and 80s to now. The dating scene has definitely changed. Quite honestly, I'm not too concerned in finding Mr. Right at the moment, but it is sad that it has changed so much.

Hugs,
ciara

The only relationship I had (and the best) was with that girl in FL. She was a beach-bunny. School and work were tough on her. She needed to make quick cash and turned to the obvious profession.
Somehow got hooked up with a bad service. After about 2 months she was the only girl left and I was the only client left. (Like I said, a rotten service.)But we took advantage of the situation. She got 150 from me to sit and chat for an hour. Then she would come back later and we'd boink like bunny rabbits. We did it every weekend for a year.
Learned a lot of tecnique from each other and had fun. Also learned about mutual respect in a sexual relationship.
Never had such a thing since and probably never will. Now its just a good memory.