Numerous hookers over there right now admitting that not only do they partake in negotiating...BUT...dare I say it?

THEY ARE BENEFITTING FROM IT. Yep!  

Now this bit of info puts the softer johns here in a precarious spot.

Do they stick with the "negotiating is offensive and cheap" mantra they have been peddling all these years??

OR...

Do they argue with those hookers and tell then they are wrong, that negotiating is bad for them, that they are not in a position to make that decision for themselves???

Whats a soft john to do? Dilemmas. Dilemmas.  

Maybe.,,,just MAYBE...they will understand they don't have to pay rack rate every single time? Ok I'm an optimist. Maybe a unicorn rancher, in this case. lol.

And not to leave out the hookers who try and bullshit us all on the GD. You know the ones. The "we never negotiate" gals and for proof they point to the statement on their website that they don't negotiate. lol. Which is right next to the disclaimer that they don't dabble in "money for sex, just their time."  

How about this. How about we agree that negotiating DOES take place, that BOTH guys AND girls can benefit from it and stop once and for all with all this lying and general bullshit when it comes to this practice.

Will honesty kill anybody here?????????

Feel like sharing? lol.  

We can discuss privately. I get it you don't want it out there.

END OF MESSAGE

Beyond that, sure.  That's why I don't have silly names and different prices for each possible amount of time.  If you're buying a lot, make an offer.

BUT, some people have said (on the boards) that having no silly chart (with price break) makes it look like I only want 1 hour appointments.

I totally don't get it.

Tons of hookers chiming in who accept less than advertised! WOW!  

You do realize you now have every soft john in the U.S. rethinking this "no haggle policy" they instituted on themselves at birth, right? lol. Just kidding! They wouldn't dare!

Still...they pay LESS, the girl can make more! What a concept! Wish I invented it. One smart dude. Or was it a p4p gal?

And yes, haggling over an hour, or 30 minutes, isn't my cup of tea either.  

And don't knock yourself. You totally DO get it. Great job

Which of the following are NOT examples of unflattering and obnoxious hobbyist douche-baggery?  

Choose all that apply.  

A) guy contacts provider he’s never met.  Her posted rate is $400. Guy leads with: I’m a great guy can you do me for $300?

B) Guy sees provider frequently. Provider offers a special rate for regular customers, and after 6 months provider voluntarily offers this rate, with the understanding that the rate will stay in effect as long as he continues to be a ‘regular’ (frequency defined).  

C) Provider advertises a special rate for X number of pre-paid sessions. Guy happily chooses to take her up on it.  

D) Provider advertises a special rate for X number of pre-paid sessions. Guy chooses to take her up on it but wants the discounted rate without the pre-pay.  

E) guy sees a provider twice and asks her to discount her rate because, as far as he’s concerned, he’s doing her a favor. Some money is always better then none.  

F) guy has a special week long trip planned and a provider in mind that he would like to accompany him. He (respectfully) asks her if she would be open to working out—-yes—-negotiating—terms for the week.  

 

Your examples from NB are not exactly compelling proof of anything. 2 providers offer a special rate for regular clients; one with a pre-pay and one not. OK. You seem downright obsessive about proving you’re ‘right’ about this. Although I can’t quite figure why. Nobody is stopping you from negotiating all you want to—-or, taking a shot at it, anyway. Who the fuck cares? Go for it. Knock yourself out.  

And, who is being dishonest? The providers who have repeatedly said that they do not negotiate their rate? I’ve never seen any of them say that this never happens. Only that they don’t. Have you ever considered the possibility that they’re NOT lying?

I totally get the negotiating thing.  I have this thought constantly running through my head, "How can I make this BETTER? How can I parlay this into MORE?"  Some guys are wired like this and frankly, their work mind is "on" 100% of the time.  Moreover, they tend to think of sex as a basic need they need to get taken care of as efficiently as possible.  More power to you guys, P4P is a great solution and I'm not remotely offended.

Some men never have that compulsion and even more men think of sex as a time to turn that off.  Usually, they're looking for more of a relationship/taking care of each other feeling.  Negotiating when you're in that sort of mindset is a disconnect, for him not me.  Then there's the expense account mode- nobody negotiates out of town because you're working your butt off and just want everything else to be hassle free.

I negotiate with my dentist.  I respect the hell out of him, he does a great job and is pleasant enough, but it's just this stupid physical need I have.  

On the other hand, I tip my hairdresser outrageously.  Also somewhat of a physical need, but he gives me this huge smile, hands me a glass of wine, tells me I'm pretty, we talk about boys, and when he's done I feel amazing.  A few hundred bucks and I'm the extra-special queen of his day.

So that.  Feeling either way about an escort is perfectly reasonable

END OF MESSAGE

I think I have had one haggler in years and I renegotiated his offer. He didn't like it so we both won.  

Now I know that tricks haggle for longer dates, I won't offer them or add the "haggler" rates.

To the ladies, since this will likely become a standard, that is haggling for multi hour, I suggest you raise those rates to deal with the hagglers if you want a certain amount. The johns will think they are getting a deal and you still make what you want

But C and D blow me away.  I can't recall seeing discounts offered for "X number of pre-paid sessions," and can't imagine who'd be crazy enough to pay weeks or months up front.  Given the fairly large "flake factor" in this biz it seems like such a discount would leave the monger holding the bag a fair amount of the time.
I've only paid up front once and it was a special circumstance for a friend of a friend.  The situation was such that it was highly unlikely she wouldn't deliver.  And it all worked out.

I must be one of the crazies of whom you speak...lol... I have pre-paid for X # of sessions (with someone I have every reason to trust) many times over, for a number of years now

If you can get poon tang for less than sticker price, great. If a lady is cool with negotiating, cool. Do your thing. But I have two issues with your stance on this topic:

1. You mention that you won't negotiate when it comes to shorter dates or infrequent ones, but haven't you also said many times that you won't pay to watch a chick eat/sleep/pick her nose? Correct me if I'm wrong, but if you don't book dinner dates, overnights, etc, then you are in fact negotiating short dates since that's all that's left, right?  

2. Here's my biggest issue with you on this: you brag about negotiating ad nauseum (to the point that it appears almost obsessive), but not in an "I just saved 15% on my car insurance" kind of way. It's more of a "getting a leg up on the power dynamic makes my dick harder than a diamond" kind of way. I mean, you've mentioned things like playing the negotiation card at the end of the month when bills are due (I'm paraphrasing here but you get the idea), as though that's when we're most likely to be desperate. That just seems a little exploitative to me. Nobody here seems particularly cool with ROGM and his "$50/diapers and milk for BBFSCIP because her business has been slow" shit, but if you're coming in with the negotiation stuff when you think the probability for her to be strapped for cash is the highest, aren't you essentially doing the same thing in principle?  

It's just that, if your budget is say $500 and you want 3hrs, why not just book with someone who charges $500 or less for 3hrs? By asking someone who charges more to do the same work in the same amount of time for less $ than she typically charges, it's like you're essentially telling her "you're not worth that much, I deserve it for less, and you'll accept it because you need the money." Again, I could be misunderstanding your past posts, but it just seems a little icky to me. I'm curious to know why you would go that route when there are alternative options (like seeing someone more affordable or just paying the posted rate). Is it honestly because it makes you feel like you have more power in the situation? Is it because you don't believe that any hooker is worth more than $x? Is it because you feel as though you're entitled to more for less? Or is it something else? These aren't rhetorical questions, either. I'm genuinely curious.  

And since I'm asking you for honesty, I'll give you my own honest perspective: I offer kickass discounts and what not to regulars. That's no problem. But my labia immediately shrivels when someone asks for a discount. Have I accepted a lower rate before? Yep. Back when I first started, I sucked at managing my money and the emails weren't coming in as fast as I would have liked so when bills were due, I'd be scrambling. These days, I've learned to be more financially savvy, and I've managed to generate enough business to keep a steady revenue flow, so it's neither necessary nor smart business sense for me to do that anymore. Yeah, something is better than nothing, but in the long run, there would be no benefit to me.  

 
Sorry for the novella, I had one too many energy drinks today.

What two consenting adults agree to sexually or monetarily works for me. All of the examples you cite can be beneficial to the girl and the guy, so I don't see your point there.

The NB proves to the many non believers here, that negotitating can be a win/win, not a win/lose.  

Your are delusional if you think girls don't say one thing in public, and one thing in private. There are girls who post here that say they would never negotiate and have megotitated with me.

But I'd say that's the exception that proves the rule.  I'd also never do it because I need a lot of variety, so even my "regulars" aren't seen more often than once every few months, if that.

1 hour is the perfect amount of time.

Tobi your post made my dick as hard as a diamond. I fuckin love you! I  

He says he looks like Brad Pitt....ergo...he believes the discount is owed to him because he is doing the providers a favor by gracing them with an above average John experience...

my theory

Why would you think there is only dinner dates and overnights?  A 2pm to 6 pm is not a dinner date, but I'll gladly go out with the girl after for dinner OTC. 9am to 1pm? Same thing. 7pm to 11? Yep. Consider yourself corrected. Lol.

As to point # 2, I never said I megotiate more or less at the end of the month. Not sure where you got that from but in any case, I don't see how putting wads of cash in someone's packet is "exploiting" anyone. That's victim speak nonsense. I have faith that girls here make decisions in their best interests. Would you rather have a girl be short for the month than me "exploit her?" Easy for you to speak for other people's financial obligations.

And no, it's not a power thing at all. My customers negotiate all day and night with me. Virtually every business does. Just a part of running any business. That's all it is Tobi, business, with regard to money.

Here's the deal. If you have read my posts on this, I have said numerous times I believe negotiating is a win/win thing. Nobody has ever tanked a session with me (another myth here) that I was ever aware and no girl has ever told me they wouldn't see me again.  

There is built in assumption here that negotiating a girl means she is getting less. But if she would have stayed home that night and got, say $1200 from me, instead of the $1500 she has posted, she wouldn't be losing $300, she would have lost $1200.

I guess when you are around negotiations every single day IRL biz, like I am, I just don't have the negative connotations in my mind about it. A client that negotiates me, helps my business, because I got an order my competition didn't get and it helps pay my bills.

So maybe it is a mindset? So many people here don't know what they are talking about or actually lie about it, I just thought I'd educate a few people.

You may still disagree, but maybe you see this from my perspective a little clearer? You and HP asked serious questions and I'd thought I'd give you a serious and honest reply.

Peace.

When that fkker has gasped his last breath!

-- Modified on 10/30/2014 9:10:27 PM

I doubt that you really are...and are just posting some nonsense.

Everything in life is negotiable....you know this to be true.  Why make such a fuss out of nothing?

One hour blow 'n go's....you're a riot today  

you brag about negotiating ad nauseum (to the point that it appears almost obsessive), but not in an "I just saved 15% on my car insurance" kind of way. It's more of a "getting a leg up on the power dynamic makes my dick harder than a diamond" kind of way"

 
If we combined the energy expended by Jack and Dr who on this topic we could probably spit an atom.  

Almost obsessive

Glad that you're pre-payments have worked out.  So do you trust all strangers you meet as well?

How about pre-paying for consulting services?  I'm good with that.

Would you like my Pay-Pal account info and we can get started?

What could possibly go wrong here?

I kept this short as you and Tobi used too much bandwidth on this topic to post your positions on this today.  Sorry  

END OF MESSAGE

That's just a bizarre reply hp....if you don't really care why in the hell are you so concerned about what Jack thinks?

Ugh...haven't heard from you yet on this pre-payment thing either.  Are you in?  I can be trusted...seriously  

I do still disagree with you on the merits, but I appreciate the response.  

P.S. I meant "dinner date" as an umbrella term for dates that are 4+ hours. Personally, if I get booked for a 4hr date, there's no way I'm going to spend the entire 4 hours with a dick in one of my orifices (I can't be getting TMJ or a callused vagina). So however you wanna fill the rest of the time ("lunch date," "Scrabble date," "sitting around twiddling our thumbs date") can be substituted as the preferred euphemism.

See, who says a PC queen and a hardcore dick poster can't agree to disagree. Lol.  

Maybe we can watch "Orifice Space" together sometime? I'll bring the DVD and popcorn and you bring that hot ass of yours. Deal?

In fairness, while the drumbeat tends to be ongoing, and the characterization of people with a different sense of doing business as 'softer' could probably be done without in my opinion, Jack's business approach seems reasonable and his comments do not seem selfish as he uniformly directs them toward getting other mongers to realize they may get a better price for a provider's service if they care to try.   I truly believe from his POV that he is trying to passionately (some might say a bit too passionately) lead by example in this regard.  

As for payments in advance, there is a business model that I am quite familiar with that is based on retainers and it works quite well.  Are we talking about the same thing within the hobby for providers who take advance payments - well, no, not exactly.  Technically a retainer is an escrow rather than a payment; it's  drawn upon when services are provided, and those who get retainers tend to on the average have a longer more stable shelf life than certain providers, but the model is close enough to not be totally absurd should a provider want to take a discounted retainer type of advance payment over a short duration (eg the first of the month for 4 weekly sessions - and I have seen this model advertised by some women).  I would have no trouble with this.

I think in many ways Jack's point is correct, but at the same time it doesn't need to be the only way things are done, or even the superior what of reaching an agreement.  But I do think it is totally acceptable to at least inquire about.  In a free market people can set a price and people can choose to pay it or not, and counter offers are a well accepted part of that fabric.  At the same time I think all providers and consumers are entitled to come at this as they wish without the slings and arrows regardless of their philosophy.   '

'Never pay retail' is not an unreasonable approach and as many point out here this is a business, and this is how a lot of business is done in the world.  But it is not the only way business is done, and since what a provider is offering is uniquely personal I think I think though it is equally reasonable for a john to approach a provider with the mindset of "yes, I will pay your asking rate because I respect and appreciate the personal nature of what you are offering me in return for the more generic, albeit necessary, cash.  since the value of what you are offering is far more personal than money and I respect your right to place what you see as the appropriate monetary value on it.  But in return for paying your fee I assume you will give me your best.  I assume your age and pictures to be accurate, I assume you will arrive on time and act in a professional manner toward me, and at the same time you have the right to expect the same from me, esp. in terms of keeping my appointments and treating you with the utmost respect. If this works, great, I hope we can continue as regulars - or not - and if not, then we will just go our separate ways

I did not know. You can't conceive of the possibility of a trustworthy provider? Not even any of your gal pals?  

Shocking...lol..

If not it should be. We can cast all of you fuckers in it!  

The whole pre-payment in exchange for discounts is really to deter guys from saying "I plan to see you twice a week indefinitely," then pay for one date at the discounted rate before dropping off the face of the earth. It's kinda like buying a subscription.

I don't realize that what providers say on a public Inet board might be different than what they do in private.  

There are too many providers out there to say 'what providers do".  

That aside, why the fuck would a provider, one who *is* willing to negotiate rates, announce this publicly on TER? That would be tantamount to encouraging every cheap-ass wanker out there to start haggling with her.  

What I find puzzling is why you are so adamant about "proving", publicly, that "some" providers will negotiate rates, in private. Your incessant harping on it makes you look like an ego driven tool. If you are successful in negotiating rates with a provider, pat yourself on the back, and then keep it to yourself.  

YMMV, right?

I don't expect them to announce it publically but they don't have to deny it and lie either.

There is a middle road HP and that is to STFU about it altogether, rather than give us and the dopey johns here their bullshit story that they "never negotitate."  

It's a crock of shit. Wake up.

END OF MESSAGE

-- Modified on 10/30/2014 11:33:27 PM

Feel free to call it what ever you want to make your bitchy little point.

I have a couple of cool guys I can see for longer dates but 1. I don't have that much time to spend on my hooker job, 2. in all honesty I really can only deal with an hour and lastly, if the session is longer than 1 hour of actual appointment, for many of my guys they get more but it is GIVEN to them and not charged for as a choice of mine.  

The fuss is being made by your BFF Jacko, it is his crusade. I do negotiate or should I say renegotiate in a way to send the hagglers packing. If I give any leeway, it is upon my suggestion, the same goes with OTC lunches and other time.  

I have always said haggle away, does not mean I like it or cave into it. I can;t control what another says, only how I deal with it

END OF MESSAGE

You have a need to convince…someone, anyone….that negotiating rates is good. Real men negotiate. And anyone who would rather not negotiate is a “soft john”—-a pussy? yes?  

Since you push this agenda so hard and so often, a few providers repeatedly challenge you by saying that they don’t negotiate. They give you their reasons why. To which your response is always: they are lying! Why do they keep lying about this? They are so full of shit. Providers negotiate! they do! they do! They’ve negotiated with me!

OK.  

So, now what? And, frankly, so what?  

Then, you see comments from 2 providers on NB who say they offer a special rate for regular customers (which, BTW, is not ‘negotiating’); and, to you, this proves you have been right all along so, of course, you must announce your victory.  You have been proven right!

You can call me dumb all you like jack—-I’ve come to expect that from you. meh. But, I am not the one waging a futile crusade to prove something that doesn’t need to be proved, realistically can’t be proved, and even if it could be, nobody but you and Dr who would actually give a shit.  

I could not care less if you try to negotiate rates. You’re not trying to negotiate my rates (as I don't have one). Go for it. Negotiate all you like

I had a gal take a cast of my cock once.