The latest poll is falling out right about 17 years old for the norm in this community to have lost virginity. I don't dispute that answer, but I'm surprised. I personally lost it a lot later -- well into my 20s, after holding at least one advanced degree (in a romantic subject no less!).

And certainly not for lack of trying did it finally happen for me so late. I have had reasonably believable feedback that I'm attractive enough and shouldn't have "had to" wait that long, except for the handicaps I put onto myself, in terms of lack of social skills or the ability to navigate the subtle signals people send.

I had always guessed that the hobbying community would have included a larger percentage of "socially stunted" people like myself, who didn't understand how to hook up. I certainly feel that the only reason *I* hobby is that I'm "forced to," because I can't consistently get laid by beautiful women (probably not by any women at all; but I'm only trying to land the beautiful ones, so that's the only group I know about) in any other manner than to order out from the web.

But now I'm coming to understand that my position among this community is less representative of the group as a whole. Plenty of you -- a majority, generally speaking -- have had much earlier losses of virginity. I presume, as well, y'all have had more "normal" socializations that go along with that -- dates in High School, making out under the bleachers, some crushes that were unrequited and some that were most definitely requited. Although the statistics from the most recent poll don't prove anything -- much too limited a question, thus far -- I think it's fair to say I misunderstood this community, and therefore my position within it. And therefore, again, by extension, just how much I misunderstood my own poor socialization in childhood.

I'm wondering if other guys feel similarly "left out" as I do? Or if maybe you're wondering if the answers aren't a bit of swagger and bluster and really misleading, or even untrue? I was surprised to see that the options were so sub-divided among the younger teen years, and so one-click among the twenties. I'd have assumed "pre-19" would have been about 8%, and then an even 10% or so for each of 20-21, 21-22, 22-23 etc. Evidently not ... makes me feel like even more of a loozer. I'm not even well-laid relative to people who, like myself, pay women for gratification. King of the nerds, even among nerds ... ...

Might see different results.

and we 'mature' faster than guys.

At 12, I was already busting out of a C cup, and could pass for 18. My parents kept a tight leash on me, otherwise, even though I didn't even fully understand 'intercourse' until age 17, I still had raging hormones at age 11 and knew there was 'something' I wanted badly. (My first time was right before I turned 18)

Also, most of us ladies started our menses early. I was 11.
Some as early as 9.

Fifteen years ago, the national average age for having sex was age 11. It still is. Now that I find very sad.

-- Modified on 2/26/2004 5:30:35 PM

Doesn't seem likely to me.

-- Modified on 2/26/2004 5:30:46 PM

at that time, and I became close friends. She was married, no kids. She suddenly became Legal Guardian to her two cousins who had a terrible life. They were young teenagers, both of whom lost their virginity at astonishing ages - 9, and 11.

She was very much into gathering information about anything, and she was working extensively with the Social workers, parenting classes, everything she could do to be a good guardian. The Social worker as well as her other sources, showed that fact.

Then, a few years ago, while I was at the hairdressers, I was reading a magazine about the frightening sexual habits of America's children. It pointed out the same statistic EXACTLY, and even the earliest years of this fact. The dates concurred with my neighbors fact finding.

Losing your virginity is really a matter of luck and circumstance more than anything else. I was 17 when I lost mine, but I happened to run into a girl from another high school who had an older boyfriend, and sex just came very easy for her.

I have always wondered about the breakdown.  Between guys for whom hobbying is their ONLY nookie and guys like me who like a little variety/skills.

Give me insite into the tension eveident is some posts.  My SO is all over me.  We have a great relationship especially in carnal issues.  I am looking for little speicalties I can't get at home or massages which the SO stoppped doing about when the ring went on- engaement that is.

But I really have to wonder at the guys who only see providers.  One might lose touch with the realities of regular sex easily.  Like thinking greek is a right, or that facials are enjoyed by all women.  It's like porn- you have to remember that entertainment is about taking possible situations and sending them off into fantasy land.

Never confuse this world with reality.  But enjoy it for what it is - a fantasy playground.

BTW there is a parralel with software development (my present field)-  the easier a program/ app is for you to use, the harder people have to work to make it so.  I think most of the time, unless there is real clicking going on, the ladies here have to really work to make us have  our little fantasy fulfilled...

I for one appreciate it.

Sully
I normally agree with your posts but this time I sharply disagree.  I am a single guy whose ONLY nookie is through hobbying.  I am that way by choice.  I always have plenty chances to hook up with civilians and choose not to, the reason is simply, like you, I need variety.  But, with all respect to you, I choose to get my variety without having a SO involved.  I do not consider myself to be a looser, on the contrary, I view myself as having made and continue to make a principled choice that is in line with my values.

With all due respect, I'm not sure I would trust the reliablity of a magazine I found at the beauty shop or the barber shop. I'm with What the Heck---average age of 11 does not seem right.

Responders should include their current age. I'm 55 and lost mine at 21. Unless you were in the service or married things were different then.  Things were not as depicted on Animal House which if I recall was supposed to be circa 1963 or so.  I remember when my city was getting a Playboy Bunny Club.  That's quaint now, but an erotic topic for discussion among 14 year old boys.  I even went to a public high school which segregated male and female homerooms.  I'm surprised the classes were co-ed.  The simpliest things turned us on then, and damn I remember being HORNY ALL THE TIME.  Guess that's still current for adolescent boys.  The hottest mags then were Playboy (with calendar poses) and a few 'Real Detective' mags.  I Dream of Genie was hot for teenage boys.  Barbara Eden was a dream.  I remember the car wash scene in Cool Hand Luke.  That was the hottest thing we boys had ever scene at the 'movies.'  Yep, things have changed.

you are not so out of step as you may want to make yourself believe. From my perspective, I do find the majority of this community to be significantly "socially stunted". There are far more people that come across as being tremendously immature, than not. It is quite sad actually. In addition, I also find most of the reviewers and posters to be pathetically uneducated, in as much that I rarely see more than two sentences put together without some misspelling or grammatical error. If these individuals have problems communicating in writing, most probably a similar handicap exits with their verbal skills as well.  They way in which you articulated your post, in how you described your social situation, did not come across like some one with limited communication skills. You really need to cut yourself some slack as you appear to be head and shoulders above the majority.

You should also realize that many of the people on this board sole social outlet, or at least their primary outlet, is with those involved somehow in adult entertainment. Some are so entrenched in this fantasy world; I do believe that they have a difficult time separating what is actual reality. From your message you appear to have a firm grasp of the difference between those who are commercial companions and those who are not. I don't think the majority on this board have the mental and/or social skills to make that a totally separate and distinct differentiation. I think many messages to these boards reflect this state of mind. I would also be somewhat hesitant and suspect to accept what everyone says at face value. Many times what one posts in one message is somewhat contradicted by themselves in another message. As it has been said many times, on the internet you can be whoever you want to be and have whatever history about yourself that you want to make up. As much as I think you may be more normal than the majority, I believe you may be more naive than the rest, that is, if you truly believe everything people state about themselves.

Let me state clearly that I do not make an all-inclusive claim, as I do think there are a scattering of individuals that seem to be adjusted and articulate. With that being said, I do agree with you, bookguy, that you have misunderstood this community and your position in it. You do not appear to be among the majority, which based on my observations, is not an entirely bad thing. And lastly, due to your candor and the manner in which you convey your thoughts, I do not think of you as a loser.

you need to check your own posts prior to passing judgement on anyone else' grammar skills or lack of. just shows to go ya, the more one says, the less it matters.

I waited, by choice, to be with someone I loved.  Unfortunately I was not in love with the woman I did have sex with for your first time.  In fact, the sex was awful.  I think that is fairly typical of first times though.

Variety is an important factor for me with the hobby.  I am single and in my mid 30s and largely have professional companions as dates.  I haven't dated a civilian in about 8 months (execept very recently).  

I find that there is nothing like making love to an incredibly beautiful, interesting and INTELLIGENT woman.  The fantasy of an amazing woman spending time with and "being into" me is terrific!  It is an important factor.

A friend of mine has this great saying...WHEN ASKED IF SHE IS ATTRACTIVE OR NOT HE REPLIES, I DON'T KNOW I HAVEN'T TALKED WITH HER YET.  Intelligence is a great aphrodisiac (sic?).

From my own perspective, I think looks do hold me back.  I think I am an average looking guy (I have been told that I am cute, though).  I have much to offer though, well educated, traveled, good career with many interests (that sounds like a personal ad, LOL).  Realistically, I don't believe I would have a real chance to date someone as beautiful in the inside and out as some of the ladies I have met through the hobby.

On a related note, I went out on a 2nd date with a civilian tonight.  She is smart, funny, attractive (think Renee Zelwegger).  Wish me luck....

That is cured with a simple and relatively painless procedure!

j/k

Seriously . . . what biological function does an intact hymen provide?


TET

was that all the way at 10?
wow!
you were precocious.
lucky 11yo.

My next was at 17, I don't really even consider that because my first orgasms in intercourse wasn't till 20 y.o., which is what it is all about.

Did I diss the SP only guys-- I thought not apologise if I sounded like that.  But I think some of them can get a slanted view of sexual activity if that is the only sex they are getting.

Hey most poeple are going to be pretty rational/normal about it- it why we call it normal.  I just think that a few of the guys can lose touch with regular reality and start trying to live in a porn style world.  It can happen to anybody- witness some of the craziness the ladies are occasionally subjected to by Married guys.  But I still think that some mixture of civvy sex and SP sex is better- giving more "grounding".

If you don't think what I say has least a grain of truth to it, try doing the PSE prgression of oral to vaginal to anal with a girl you pick up in a bar.  You might get lucky-  but I she's gonna flip about the moment you go greek- maybe when you mention it!  Hell, sometimes oral is hard to get!

Although the information is six years old+ by now, according to this article:

Medical Post : American teens lose virginity earlier than Canadians

TORONTO -- Let's talk about sex--and Canada's youth. According to the results of the third annual 1998 Durex Global Sex Survey, Canadian youth lose their virginity at a younger age than most other nationalities. Canadian teens are having sex for the first time at 16.6 years of age, a full year earlier than the global average of 17.6. The United States continues to have the youngest sexually active population. The average age at loss of virginity there is 16.3. The survey was conducted in 14 countries including Canada, the United States, Mexico, South Africa and Hong Kong. A total of nearly 10,000 men and women over age 16 were surveyed in order to study sexual behaviours and attitudes. Age, gender, nationality, marital status and parenthood status were taken into consideration.

keeps the flys out.

Meeting and dating civilian women is, for some us, an extraordinally difficult and awkward process.  It can be tough when you're average looking, have little money, or just really shy (for me, it's a little bit of all three).  What may seem like an effortltess thing for some to do can be a torturous thing for someone else who is not as skilled or lucky.  

This hobby allows me to live out things in my life that, for many many reasons, cannot be duplicated in my own civilian life.  It's easier, less nerve racking, and really helps me and many others "forget" our own insecurities, even if only temporary.

I did several searches after posting my post and came up with several answers 14,15,16.

However, most of those are for intercourse only.

To include oral sex, the average age in America is 11, as it was 15 years ago.

Of course, you never know you're going to need to validate something, so it's not like you saved the document or source for three years later when someone questions you.

The remark about doubting a magazine that one would find in a hair salon is pretty silly. So, if it was the same Time or USA Today magazine, but I found at the doctor's office, it has more credibility???

The magazine was a national magazine. The MAIN article of the magazine, even listed on the front cover, was about the sexuality of our children in America, and how early of an age.
It went into great detail about oral sex and how kids at a very young age are learning to perform oral sex because at least they can't get pregnant or get STDs (their understanding). It also talked about the absolute pressure the girls are under and their self esteem, based on how well they perform. It mentioned how many girls were pressured to get their tongues pierced because 'the guys like it'.

That's my final answer and I'm sticking to it. Besides, I'd stick with the figures social workers have over some 'surveys'.
There will be kids who say they have sex (and don't) to be cool, and kids who have had sex since very young but won't say so.

Just like the percentages of females who've been sexually assaulted in some way - stats have shown it to be one of out three females. The men usually are shocked and find it staggering. Notice I didn't say 'women' - I said 'females'.
While the men are shocked, the women zip their lips and say nothing..because they know. And most don't report it.
Often times a female may be molested, raped or assaulted more than once in their life.
Anyway, that's another story, and not one we like to talk about.

But, that's how numbers get skewed. I'm sticking with mine because I've seen the articles in the magazines, I've worked closely with kids; and I believe social workers would have more accurate numbers on this. I also get regular newsletters from Planned Parenthood and have been a supporter of them for years.