I went out last night with a group providers, for some drinks and great conversations. Out of the blue, T's's came up, and the majority of my friends were adamant about not seeing a client who may have seen one previously before seeing them (the provider). One provider friend was totally upset at the hobbyist after finding out  from his reviews that he had seen a T's before seeing her, that when he tried to make another appt. with the provider, she refused to see him again. She even went as far as getting tests done assuage her feelings. Personally, I never even thought about double checking reviews, or even thought about making sure he's seen only female providers, other than T's's. I feel what makes him tick and tock is fine, as long as he is practicing safe sex with them and myself, is all I care about. But, I will admit that after our ladies gathering yesterday, it had me wanting to ask both providers and hobbyists how they feel on this subject. Is it okay for providers to refuse to see clients based on who they've seen before? Providers, do you ever refuse a client based on him seeing a T's, previously before you?

I don't see the TS issue as a one involving danger, more of a psychologicalthing.

She seesm worried about STDs. If a client had seen some she knew had an STD then not seeing him is a god idea.

-- Modified on 8/1/2004 8:21:07 AM

Who a lady sees is always her decision...no discussion! Not into the TS scene but to me it seems risky.

Hetrosexual activity does not keep you from AIDS or any other STD for that matter. However, it does not appeal to me to see a T, (I like "innies" not "outties").

Safe sex is a must. Even oral sex is a risk and should be done only with the proper care. The same reason that a woman will not do a bbj is the same reason that a man should not do it as well to her.

I can understand a provider not seeing someone. It is her choice always. But do NOT think that sex between a man and a woman or a man and a T is any different when it comes to STD. This thought flies in the face of medical fact/reason.

the increased risk of a man seeing a TS provider is if he is the receiving partner for unprotected anal sex

Unfortunately, I don't think it reduces risk.  Men knowing now that women providers may be reluctant will simply hide TS contact.  So,  providers will take the risk of never knowing their risk.  

Absolutely not seeing him seems rather punishing to me, and perhaps that's her intent.  But if it isn't, why not see him and take certain things off the menu, and perhaps take more care with what's on the menu?  It's not who you see that spreads AIDS; it's what you do and how you do it once you see them. Using your intelligence is much better than throwing yourself into ignorance.

/Zin

-- Modified on 8/1/2004 9:29:50 AM

-- Modified on 8/1/2004 9:34:01 AM

Consider that you're having sex with EVERY PERSON that the  person YOU had sex with as well as all of the people that had sex with all of those people too.  It's not just a straight line, it's a BUNCH OF LINES to a bunch of people, not just "one generation" as it's called.

That's why I've always said you need to test MONTHLY, not every six months, because every contact in the context of dating that we're in is considered "high risk".  You must assume that the guy/gal that you're with, no matter how safe you're being, is a straight line to a bunch of other straight lines back to ALOT of other people.

For instance, click on a reviews of a random lady for the entire month and then click on the reviewers for that month to see who they've seen, then click on the ladies that they've seen to see how many people they've seen that month.

(You won't have to go too far back to find someone that has a TS review.  It's nearly impossible not to draw a line in most cities.)

Then imagine how many people didn't bother to write reviews and you've got an idea of how many others you were exposed to.

So, long story short, practice safe sex, and TEST TEST TEST, once a month for every time you have a "HIGH RISK CONTACT" and sorry to name it that, but that's what it is when you play here, ladies and gentleman.

My point being that we can't spread disease if we are disease free.  The only way to know for sure is to TEST OFTEN.

If you don't want to deal with your insurance, go to the county health clinic and use the name of the person you hated in high school and transpose just a couple of your Social Security numbers and do the same thing, exactly, each month.

Another lady suggested just saying that her husband/SO is cheating on her, if you're embarrassed in any way.

Just an example of my experience, It took my doctors, and I use my personal doctors through my insurance, THREE MONTHS to get the oral chlamydia testing correct.  Imagine the worst case scenario, if I actually HAD oral chlamydia (No real symptoms) and only tested once every six months.  I would have been passing that along to dozens of guys!!!!  OH MY!

Of course, it's rarely the worst case scenario, I personally have always been clean, which is the wonderful thing about testing, the confidence it brings on when you date.  It's not scary at all after the first round.

BTW, The oral chlamydia test needs to be a special swab put in a special tube on Ice for those of you that go in and ask for that test!

Safe Dating!!!

xoxo
Elise

there's weird thinking then there's beyond left field weird...


What's with these guys who say their straight, have girlfriends, families, do the normal man lifestyle, then sneak off on the down low, get with other guys, talk themselves into thinking they're safe to have bareback sex with other down low guys, being only part time gay or mentally straight one in a while gay, then try to flip an extra benjy at the provider to go uncovered ????????????????????????????

Spreading "the gift" ? This is INSANE!!!!!!!

With the TS's at least you have some idea what your're getting into...

The New York gay community now has a big anti crystal methadrine education program.... the story is that guys, including your standard issue buttoned down suburban whitebread come into town and bug on the meth, do irrational things they can't remember the next day, some downlow here and some downlow there, starts to add up...

You know whats worse ? We have to get good quality AFFORDABLE HIV and STD testing while we're dabating a $600,000,000 subsidy for a stadium we don't need and outwardly normal guys are playing russian roulette with their lives and the lives of their partners...

Politicians don't want to talk about it... it's seen as a "third rail" issue for afro-american politicians, they raise the subject and they get shouted down, and the Mayor wants to promote the image of New York as a drug and disease free playground when there should be a clinic for every zip code...

There are TONS of active TS in this city, they see anybody, do anybody, top, bottom, name your game, lot of upstanding gentlemen have no problem working out the corporate kinks that build up between monday and friday, a cold beer won't do it, spliff might show up on a random drug test, some ambiguous freak what you need to bend your crazy johnson back into line...

You ought to talk to some cab drivers in this upper crust burg of ours, who they take where after hours, sure enuf makes a fella think twice.

First of all I am a Post-Op TS (GOD I HATE THOSE TWO LETTERS)

Which mean yes I have undergone Sexual Reassignment Surgery (SRS). And yes I am a provider now. While I cannot speak for every one like me, let me share a little of my history with you, and maybe take some ignorance out of the mix on this thread.
Prior to my surgery I NEVER had sex with a man. In fact I was celibate for many years not having sex with anyone. I always felt that it was just wrong for me to do anything different than what I did (thanks to being raised catholic "GUILT"). I never felt an attraction to men in my life till after a few years of being on Estrogen, and even then I just kind of was like "ICK!" remember when you were growing up and about 9 years old?
So after my surgery it was still about a good 2 years before I could ever even think about wanting to have sex with a man. After a year post-op I was dancing in strip clubs at this time but it was still kind of weird for me to even think about such a thing.  In the time that had past, it was now 7 years since I had been with anyone, and the last relationship I had was with a woman and it was a monogamous one at that for many years. I have NEVER had anal sex and honestly, I never want to either! Just something that does not appeal to me.

Some thing else to consider is this. Unfortunately I am not able to produce natural lubricant in my vagina cavity like a naturally born woman. But with this comes another safety factor that uneducated people don't think of. Because my body does not secrete this lubricant the chance of me passing along any disease through my vagina through sex is diminished significantly. Incidentally though I am still very able to have orgasms (Thank God!).

So I know I might be a little different than lets just say the garden variety TSs on the boards. But please, just because someone has that TS designation to their name it does not mean they are a walking Petri dish.  My god some of the providers here that have page after page of reviews, I mean…………. Please lets be real! Do you girls not think for a minute that at least a few of the men you have seen over the years, might just be BI? Or even in my case, I have seen quite a few guys from TER that will never post a review on me; just because of the very reason this person started the thread. It is pure ignorance to think you are safe from anything, just because you wont see a guy who has seen TS. Think about this for a moment as well. Every city on Eros guide, and other malls, has a TS section. But with so many of these providers working who is seeing them? Not the guys that hang out on the floats in the gay pride parades. It is Joe Smith, with the wife and kids, and the same Joe Smith that see’s regular providers. We are all at a higher risk being in this business/hobby, and if you are a high volume provider, or a hobbyist that see’s providers on a regular basis, let me tell you are kidding your self thinking anything different. Yes we all have the right to see whom ever we want, but don’t think for a minute you are any safer not seeing a guy that has seen a TS provider. That is pure Bullocks! Just play safe and use your brains.

Cheers!
Kylie


-- Modified on 8/1/2004 2:48:02 PM

There is enough stupid behavior to go around in the sex-for-hire world and some play safe and some do not....in both reg and TS.  You have got to be kidding yourself if you think that you are lots safer for not dating the guys who see TS's.  But more to the point, you don't even know if you've been with a guy who has.  So perhaps your friends are in the wrong biz if they think that they are all that safe by this foolish screening.

I was only relating what was said to me over drinks. I thought the question was very interesting and please note that my point of view is is that I don't care as long as the client is playing safe even with other providers. I will admit that I was astonished by certain point of views and I was curious to find out more on this. Don't blame the messenger here.

There is just a lot of myopic thinking going around on this subject and I don't think this thread will do much to change it.  

Of course everyone has the right to not see anyone based upon their own preferences and prejudices.

In addition to providers not wanting to see some clients who have seen a TS some clients don't want to see a provider who has been seen by someone who has reviewed a TS.  Some providers will not see guys who have reviewed what the provider considers to be a high volume provider because of safety concerns.  Some guys will not see high volume providers because of what they perceive as safety concerns.

But consider the following:

As a client you do not know what the provider is doing in her personal life.  Maybe she has a boyfriend that she engages in bareback FS or anal and you know nothing about how safe he is.  Maybe she likes to go to wild swing parties where protection is sometimes forgotten.  Maybe she enjoys going to the local bar and getting half loaded and picking up gawd knows what in the bar and taking them home and doing who knows what.

As a client you may think that the lady you are seeing is low volume and only sees  the more exclusive($$$$$$$$) clientele  but how do you really know.  If she is seeing 6 guys a day I doubt that she will admit it to you.  Also she may be running advertisements under two or more different names.  If you call and ask for Jane it is $400 per hour with a two hour minimum and if you call for Lois it is $150 per hour with a one hour minimum.  

From the provider side of the equation most of the above applies in reverse.  You don't know what your client is doing when he is not seeing you.  Maybe he is bisexual and his SO is another guy.

If you don't want to see someone because of your own sexual preferences then that is your right.  However it would be a mistake to avoid them based upon some false feeling of security which does not exist.

Hi ... so does this mean you can do bareback safely since you feel you are safe as you don't secret vaginal fluids .. just curious and it's not a flame. Thanks.

It just happened to be the same lady that already posted in this thread...San Diego's lovely Kylie. I just haven't had time to do a review yet.

I am hazarding a guess, Miss Anon, that you and your friends real aversion was to pre-op TS's who are providers.  While I can't speak from experience in that respect, I have wondered if some providers will have a problem seeing me once my review of Kylie goes up.

Aside from the fact that Kylie is truly one of the most amazing ladies that I have ever met in my life, is intelligent and charming and sophisticated beyond almost any woman I have known in my life, and is one of the most fulfilling providers that I have ever been with, Kylie is just as if not more safe and sanitary than any other provider I have seen.  She takes the same precautions that other providers I have seen do...and more than some...and I had 100% confidence in her.  For Kylie, who is more woman than many "females" I have known, the letters TS truly do not exist in my mind, and I wish TER had a separate designation for TS Pre-Op and TS Post-Op, because to me, Post-Op is just like seeing a female provider for the most part.  Some of the female providers I have been with could learn something about femininity from being around Kylie.

If someone refused to see me for having seen someone as rare and amazing and SAFE as Kylie is, I would consider it on the same level as someone not seeing me because I saw a Hispanic provider, or an Asian one, or an African American one, and I would be happy to know that they are not at a level of enightenment for a provider who I wanted to see in the first place.

...safe sex is safe sex.

MS Anon is right. She is just the messanger here, well kinda? She was just saying that she had this conversation with a few of her eehhhm GFs, and it was her GFs that had such an adversion to this type of provider, and client who see's them.
But with all that said. anyone who is somewhat educated, would understand that like Elise pointed out, none of us are totaly safe from anything. And to test regularly. I do find it rather curious that I have actually responded to so many threads of this nature here in the past year and a half of me being a TER member, and that most of them were actually started by women?
But like I said I think Ms Anon(alias) was just asking us what our thoughts were on this. The one thing I guess I would have to ask you Ms Anon is........ What did you say to your ignorant friends? Or did any of you ever stop to think, about your own actions?
By the way, I actually have a link to AIM's website, on my own website. They have drawing stations all over the Socal area, and are a bevy of information, and help. Get Tested! Stay safe!

Cheers!
Kylie

Sorry for the juvenile wording, but the whole idea of a man being bi, being TS, dressing in women's clothes, or having a foot fetish is way up there on the "strange meter" for me.

I once had a session with a guy who was into a lot of metaphysical stuff--astrology, crystal power, etc. It was an odd session--if I'd known ahead I never would have seen him.

Everyone has their "strange list." TS, bi men and astrology fanatics are on mine.

There is much to be gleaned from all types of people if they are intelligent, and some of the best people in the world I have met in my life are gay/bi/TS, into astrology/feng shui/mysticism, or, for that matter, espouse standard Christian theological doctrine.  As long as they are open hearted and communicate well, I am happy to hear as many sides of the coin that we call the human experience as possible.  If I would have avoided people because of their unpopular or aberrant beliefs, I would have missed out on some of the most rewarding experiences and friendships of my life.

"Quick to judge, quick to anger...slow to understand
Ignorance and prejudice...and fear walk hand in hand"

-Rush, "Witch Hunt", from the 1980 CD "Moving Pictures"

-- Modified on 8/2/2004 11:18:23 AM

Yes  Kylie  is  more  woman  then  most  women I  know. She  is  sweet  and  caring, This  is a  Smart  cookie  with a  kooky  side  to  her. And  if   any  man  refused to see  me  because I  know  HER love  HER, and have  no  problem seeing  men  who feel  the  same, then  they are  not  worth  my  time.

I  do  have a  provider  friend  that  refuses  to  see  guys  that see  me  because  I  have seen  other  men  that  have  seen  TS's, though  she  is a  friend and we  argue  a lot  about  that. I accept  I  will  not  change  her  mind, nor  will  she  change  mine, but  we  respect  each other.

This  would  of  Provider/ hobbyist  should  all  be  about  respect, what  is  strange  to  some  is  not to  others, we are a  would  of  different  people, once  we  all  understand  that, everything  else  will  just  fall  into  place. Why  care  so  much, Play safe  yourself and  that  lessons  any  risk.

let  us  all  just Love  and  make  love....  even  if  just  for  an  hour  at a  time....  

Kisses,
Karrie

After finally getting a TER membership I was shocked to find out I had seen a Hobbyists that had also seen a T, I regularly get tested every three months but I confided in my Dr. (he knows my occupation from the get go) and he told me to relax, I still get tested evry three months for my own personal peace of mind and for my clients.
My Dr. is great because he made me feel comfortable telling him my occupation (not all do!) and he takes the appropriate test from hepititis, herpes, clamydia,etc...down to bacterial infections. I recommend finding a good Dr. that you can be honest with and feel comfortable with asking him questions about everything.
If any providers wants his info. pm me at pin_upDee I'll pass it along gladly.
Don't freak-out over seeing a hobbyist that has seen T's they are into safety too, and it's about having good clean fun!