John Gray (the Mars/Venus books guy) says yes, but his ideas are way too simplistic.

A lot of woman will say "I've tried the man route, and it just isn't worth it.  I've learned I can be perfectly happy without a man".

Others are still looking for their knight in shining armor.

Maybe some woman who think they can't be happy without a man feel that way because they never had a real father, so they are looking for a father substitute.  What would TruthSpeaker say about that one, LOL.

Some men in answering will go into self-flagellation mode, saying "I'm amazed that women can stand us at all - we're such jerks".  

You have to love yourself before you can love someone else - is this a barrier for some women in having good relationships with men?

I'm WonderingAboutThis...





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when you get older, having a companion is important.  In the pet shop, birds in pair tend to outlive those that are alone in the cage.

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your training is complete!

  It is time for you to go and spread your Cynicism through-out the world.

    Cm.

and right up my alley..
hhhh..where do I begin?
For the most part, women do not need men, but men DO need women. Before you get all macho or bitchy, just listen. Anyone who understands and believes how God ordained it, he provided MAN with WOMAN as a helpmeet. He knew that Man without Woman would always be incomplete; something missing. That is NOT so for Woman. But, this isn't a bad thing. Really. The importance is in understanding WHAT and WHY. Todays man, in understanding how much HARDER it seems to find not only THE woman, but a QUALITY woman, realizes just that fact: that women don't NEED men. This will help him understand, therefore, how to WIN a woman. Afterall, in the '50's, a woman was still somewhat new to voting, could not own practically anything without a man, couldn't have a house, car or credit cards without a man; and could barely gain employment. Therefore, her very EXISTENCE RELIED (key word, relied) upon a man. Not so today: the US boasts more businesses owned solely by women than men, and more university enrollees and applicants are female versus male. Women has become self-sufficient, and barring the still unequal pay scale, in the business world as well as the personal world, women don't need men. Again, don't fret that this a bad thing as we, as well as all things evolve. Men are having to hone areas they haven't been primed for in prior years such as 'working on themselves" in more Renaissance areas such as social skills, sensitivity and relational, sexual and parental areas versus perhaps being a great breadwinner (solely). Men realize that to 'score' the modern woman, he must become that which she is lacking and only can supply. She must NEED him.
Wow. How simple is that? Why do we then overcomplicate things?
I dunno...past? fear?
As far as the Knight in Shining Armor? No...what people want is merely to 'continue to believe' and to not feel that what we all dream, hope and cherish is somehow lost..that 'it' (whatever 'it' may be to the person) is somehow attainable whether by good choices, or by Divine Intervention..

It isn't so much that someone wants a mate as it is to feel that they are loved; it isn't so much that someone is jealous as it is in they have lost trust; it isn't so much than one is insecure as it is in that they've been betrayed..

Hmm..how did you know what my next thread is going to be about? I'm still 'working' on it..

Night..

I suppose in such a large group, you will find both a woman who needs a man, and a woman who doesn't.  So which could you rule "typical?"  

Because humans are the genes' way to replicate themselves, the sexes are engineered to "need" each other so as to replicate genes.  That having been said, the genes are not all powerful, and there is plenty that could go wrong for them in that endeavor.

My experience tells me that the sexes need each other, though each see the need in different ways, and the need will vary, or even vary to absence, among individuals.

/Zin

...a friend, company, a lover, a sex-toy, someone to argue with, ah the list goes on.

Men are like...
  Men are like.....Laxatives.
  They irritate the shit out of you.

  Men are like......Bananas.
  The older they get, the less firm they are.

  Men are like.....Vacations.
  They never seem to be long enough.

  Men are like.....Bank Machines.
  Once they withdraw they lose interest.

  Men are like.....Weather.
  Nothing can be done to change either one of them.

  Men are like.....Blenders.
  You need one, but you're not quite sure why.

  Men are like.....Cement.
  After getting laid, they take a long time to get hard.

  Men are like.....Chocolate Bars.
  Sweet, smooth, and they usually head right for  your hips.

  Men are like.....Coffee
  The best ones are rich, warm, and can keep  you up all
    nightlong.

  Men are like.....Commercials.
  You can't believe a word they say.

  Men are like.....Department Stores.
  Their clothes should always be half off.

  Men are like.....Government bonds.
  They take so long to mature.

  Men are like.....Horoscopes.
  They always tell you what to do and are usually wrong.

  Men are like.....Lawn Mowers.
  If you're not pushing one around, then you're  riding it.

  Men are like.....Mascara.
  They usually run at the first sign of emotion.

  Men are like.....Popcorn.
  They satisfy you, but only for a little while.

  Men are like.....Snowstorms.
  You never know when he's coming, how many inches you'll get    or howlong he will last

Sometimes you feel like a nut...sometimes you don't

In a nutshell...you can't live with us or without us
but on the whole,there is no better way to live.

Cheers!

You stated it perfectly.

...  I think the urge for intimacy is a deep part of almost everyone:  this is the real question here.   People can certainly be happy without being in a committed relationship.  However, there are lots of studies in social sciences that suggest people in committed relationships are more likely to consider themselves happy then people who are not in committed relationships.  

I'm using the term committed relationship deliberatly.  Gay and bisexual women shouldn't be expected to feel they need a man.  However, they may feel a need for an intimate relationship with a woman.  

Many people have WAY to little intimacy in their lives.  Ask yourself the following questions:  

-- if you were to die today, how many people in the world would be so upset they would not be able to eat for one meal?  Call that your intimacy number.  My personal number  is 3-6.  

-- How many people in your life are so important to you that their death would cause you to be upset enough to miss one meal?  Call that your intimacy capacity index.  My estimate of my own number is about 10.

Do we overestimate other's capacity to care for us?  Do we underestimate our own capacity to care for others?  Why do I, like most people, see one index as siginificantly different from the other?

Reoes a woman need a man to be happy?

In my opinion, no.  I think happiness is something each individual person has the power to choose.  Ultimately, one cannot place control or responsibility for how one feels on another person.  If a woman or man is already happy, their happiness may be enhanced by the companionship of another happy person.  If one has a negative view of the world and refuses to take responsibility for what happens to oneself, the greatest companion in the world may not be able to change that.  I agree with the last statement in your post.  Love yourself first.  Be happy with yourself first, and then perhaps you'll be able to enjoy the company of someone else.

Expand on this and you'll have a winner.

Talking about what "God has ordained" will not resonate with the large number of us who do not believe in God, or even those who do believe in God and yet do not feel that God provided man with woman as a helpmate.

Your points about the economic independence of today's women from men are good ones, but there seems to be an element of wishful thinking in your insistence that men will be forced to become more like what women want in order to be able to score women.  Many, many men are doing just fine without developing those skills.  You may argue that the women they are getting are not quality women, but they would disagree, and seem perfectly happy.

The continued desire for a knight in shining armor has more to do with all that father-daughter stuff than anything else.  Got to figure out the relationship with the father before you can let go of the fantasy.

But keep working on expanding that third-to-last paragraph.  That's the real deal.

Women are different individuals, some say they cannot live without a man in their life. While others are very self-sufficient and feel they could be happy even without a man. I feel that it's great to have a partner if the chemistry is right between both partners and their personalities are right for each other. A girlfriend once told me "there is a man for every women". I totally agree with, if you are lucky enough to find that special person.

and i say that with no cynicism whatsoever!

Great post Sedona,
I understand what you are saying, and maybe I'm thinking to deep into the question, but I think that at it's most basic level it's not man needs woman, woman needs man, man needs man, woman needs woman...
We all need to feel loved, safe, that someone cares about us as a person.
It's the nature of the human animal in all of us. We are a communal species, we need to be around others of our kind, whether male or female.

Women don't "need" men, anymore than men "need" women, but we sure do want them around.

Just my opinion...
B

With such a clear understanding of "us" I only wish I could come home to you every night Sedona.

   FR.

You eloquently lay out why a woman does not "need" a man "anymore" due to the opening of socio-ecomonic barriers.  However, by that definition, men never would have "needed" women, ever.  I also have never needed a woman as a "helpmeet" more than I would anticipate she needed me as one, and I am currently agnostic, so I don't have an overriding belief in God's "purpose" for the genders.  

Past that, the obvious areas for "need" would be biological, and sexual, as all other needs conceptually could be met from a partner of the same gender.

Biological...hmmm, well, with modern fertility clinics and progressive adoption laws, neither of the genders "needs" each other anymore, if you have money.  So that is out, and it just leaves sex.

It is well documented that, on average, men desire sex more frequently than women.  As such, that could easily imply that men "need" women more than women "need" men.  However, we are talking concept here, not quantity.  So the question is, would either gender be satisfied with not getting sex at all (I am only speaking about heterosexual sex)?  I am not talking about who can "hold out" the longest...I am talking about what we "need" as beings in a higher sense, not a statistical sense.

When relationship issues get broken into discussions of "need", whether it be sexual, financial, emotional, or whatever, the basis of a relationship can become uncomfortably tangled in power dynamics that can cause shame, resentment, and loss of love.  

I am speaking conceptually here, so pardon me, y'all, if it seems serious.  However, I am serious about the people I love, and about gender relationships in general, and I am uncomfortable when "need", and especially comparisons of "need" are introduced into the equation.  As such, pardon my preaching.








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Do you really need someone to tell us that men and women are different? Who didn't know that.. What is the title of his next book, "The sky is blue and grass is green"?LOL

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First of all, thank you for your post, and comments. The paragraph you mention was actually an afterthought! I'm glad it ended up (almost) being a winner! LOL

It's hard to really say all that one might want to say in just one post, and in one thread. It would be nice to be at a cocktail party and just have an engaging conversation where we could elaborate more, but often I just post and have to lump things together and hope people see the generalities.

I have a problem with the word 'need' for openers and think it's causing some negative connotation as in 'neediness', 'co-dependency' or even rejection, as if one is not needed, and that's not what I mean. I mean need as in one complimenting another (me & my doubles partner), and, darn, I'm stuck here on what I'm trying to explain..
..Ok..My GF and her husband insisted I go up and spend the weekend with them. Didn't want to, too busy, but I went and I didn't realize how much I DID NEED to 'get away'..to have peace and quiet, to see for miles and miles and not a person in sight; to find solitude in Nature. I felt wonderfully rejuvenated and calm and 'needed'it.
In my family we are mostly Matriarchal - and mostly single women, and for a few generations. When people have asked me or my sisters why we didn't have a man in our lives, the answer was the same: "I haven't needed one".
Statistics show that men who are divorced or widowered (?) usually remarry within three years while women remain single for 7-15 years (many factors play in). That suggests a different need between men and women.
I'm sorry if my post infers that men will be forced to become something for women because that's not how I meant it. In fact, I being in my 40's, have really enjoyed seeing how men have 'evolved' over the years and the Renaissance man is much more the norm today. Becoming something she needs is up to interpretation, and a few of the posts below state some of those things perfectly. Just as we all have our ecclectic circle of friends and we think 'why do I hang out with this guy?' and we recognize what that person 'provides' for us, do we see how that person supplies a 'need'.

Sometimes you don't even know you HAD a need until you recognize that you wouldn't want to be without it. And that could be a smile, a laugh, the way he makes you laugh, the way he cares...
..and that's the best need I was referring to most of all when I say become something she needs - YOU.

I guess, in regards to quality, I was thinking more along the lines of being careful in selection. So many people I think just 'settle' rather than waiting for someone that really, really fits, instead of 'this will do'.

In regards to the Knight in Shining Armor - so many of you here have already been my Knights and that is all I need. No Fairy Tale; very real - offering to help me financially when I was recovering, offering to help me set up my incall, offering to pay for a weekend incall location so I can have business, picking me up at the airport, so many things I can name that touch my heart so much (thank you).

Thanks again, for keeping me on track.

And lastly, "it isn't so much that she felt something lacking, but suddenly he came and filled it".

I don't think  "need" is the right expression in this case. I don't believe anyone needs someone else, and if they do.. they have problems. I think everyone wants someone to love, and wants that someone to love them in return. Everything you experiance in life is that mach sweeter when you have someone who is your best friend/lover/mate to share it with. The hardships thrown out by life are less harsh, and the joys are that much sweeter. My opinion.

maybe not all. C'mon Cynicalman..!

your last sentence left my mind wandering.

"It isn't so much that someone wants a mate as it is to feel that they are loved; it isn't so much that someone is jealous as it is in they have lost trust; it isn't so much than one is insecure as it is in that they've been betrayed.."

Thats what I miss the most, the ability to trust. One of God's great gifts.

God, Sedona this is so on the mark.

Don't know if woman needs man or man needs woman but eventually, we all need someone in one form or another.

Plus , mostly we "want what we want".  
And like a dear friend told me, "it's always better to be wanted than needed"

someone who is "my perfect man".

I've had love,
I've been in love
but
I've never been in love!!

because then all the cigar smokin' pigs like me will worship her!

I think women do fine on their own.  

"The woman is smarter that's right"

Although I don't mind being politically ERECT! I still like big fake boobs!

Hugs and Kisses,
Megan
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I like women with their natural body hair (yes, everywhere it grows naturally)...you think that is PC?  

Thankfully, TER is Wonderland for both of us...enhanced ladies and lovely natural beauties both abound.  Happy hunting...and stick that stinky cigar where da sun don't shine! :P