For any lawyers out there, or those who play one on TV:

You should be great full you weren't left on the trail as spider food. I'd probably assist in getting medical attention for an injured friend. I would not pay for that medical attention.

How can I send you a pm? ps it will be otc

Things like this are somewhat complicated, both from a legal and practical standpoint.  Recovery could be possible but there are many hoops to jump through...  one would need to know your state of residence and some things about the person you were with.  Then there is something called assumption of risk, where you could be sol, or partially sol depending on your state.  But if you can get around that, which will be a bit of a challenge, your actual costs are one thing (and they could be more than just your medical bills and related expenses) but the costs due to the consequences of your injuries (assuming you're trying to get compensated for financial losses suffered due to an inability to engage in an illegal activity lol... ) will be what they call a novel theory... but alas, it ain't happening.  But this is a lot of inside baseball and probably best done off line.    

Im not a lawyer nor played one on TV but I do envy the kind of money they make so that makes me somewhat of a law expert (LOL)

but I did stay at a Holiday Inn. "Does she have any claim against a client for putting her in an unsafe situation?" What, did he kidnap her? Did he force her to go with him?  She put herself in the unsafe situation from what you are telling us.  

You need to have YOUR own health coverage effective 1/1/2014 under ACA.

Posted By: Skinny_Minnie

For any lawyers out there, or those who play one on TV:  
   
 You took a provider to a foreign country and the provider got injured during an activity, let's say, hiking in the rainforest.  She slips and cuts her leg on a rock.  You take her to a doctor in that country, get her stitches, crutches, and pay for her medical bills.  But what about her time off work for seeing potential clients when back to the U.S.?  Does she have any claim against the client for putting her in an unsafe situation? (The rainforest).  If not a legal claim, would you feel morally responsible to pay her living expenses while she is on crutches?  
   
 NO!  I'm not suing anyone but had a similar situation happen and changed the details of the story.  But would like to hear what you guys have to say.

In the work place, an on the job injury is looked at very closely. Was the employee intoxicated? Was the employee breaking the rules or policies of the work place? Also think about future income and word being spread that you are a liability, potentially costing the guy a fortune if you get hurt. Would another guy want to book a similar date if the risk of being demanded all of that expense should you be hurt?  

I don't think you have any grounds to sue the client, unless you could prove in court that he showed blatant disregard for your safety. In the civie world, it would be a simple workmens comp issue. Being that your an independent contractor, you don't have that. So my advice would be this. If this kind of activity is something you engage in frequently enough to warrant the expense, you should purchase some type of short-term disability insurance to cover your basic expenses while you can't "work". And not to bust your chops, but you should take more responsibility for your personal safety. I won't do anything that endangers my safety on the job, no matter how well it pays. Just my 2c.~~~~~~Rob

He told me the exact same thing!  (But a lot nicer)

If things get rambunctious and you cut your leg on the bed frame am I responsible for that? What if you slip and fall on your way to answering the door of your incall? After all, you would not have been answering the door if I hadn't show up. And like Dr. Who said, nobody forced you to go hiking in the rain forest. And who gets to decide when you're ready to work again? Is it when you're off the crutches, or when the cut heals and there is no trace of injury? There is a reason insurance policies are a hundred pages long. Fine if the guy wants to compensate you in some way, but I'd advise against pursuing it...to the extent it got around it would be quite the boner killer for anyone else thinking about taking you on a trip.

And I've had to take more seminars on this topic than I care to admit.

Posted By: Skinny_Minnie

He told me the exact same thing!  (But a lot nicer)

It's a good topic to discuss...especially for the gals to be aware of the options to them under ACA (this is also known as Obamacare).

In all seriousness, I meant the original post for humor and discussion more than anything else, but yeah I guess I really should get insurance.  I couldve been more seriously hurt in the real incident but he kinda "saved" me.

No and no. Sorry, but you are an adult and I'm guessing you were not forced or coerced into the activity so it's on you. As a responsible adult you can say "no" to "unsafe" situations. Even if you were engaging in "legal" activity you wouldn't have much of a claim. That is not to say that an attorney won't take your case (and your money) and tell you that you have a valid claim. However, remember that engaging in illegal activity while getting injured is not going to help you at all. Morally responsible? It depends on the guy and the details of the trip. Were you exercising diligence for your own safety. For example, were you wearing hiking shoes or louboutins for your hike? Negligence on your part, no matter how slight, may have contributed to your injury. I doubt most clients would be willing to pay your living expenses,  carte blanche, unless you were seriously injured and couldn't work at all. Not being "able" to work is different than it being "difficult" for you to work. That carte blanche arrangement, no matter how honest you are, could easily be abused and end badly for the both of you. Sorry to rain on your parade, but you may just have a good story to tell in the future and that is all.

-- Modified on 12/21/2014 12:20:27 AM

Many fun tidbits for a law school exam, including which law applies, that of the state where you live, that of the state where he lives or the country in which the incident happened, whether the rainforest visit was part of your job, whether you would be considered a contractor, assumption of liability and many others.   Going back to the choice of law issues, don't lose sight of the fact that your agreement for "time and companionship," would be deemed to be illegal in the U.S. but perhaps not in the country where it happened.    BTW, I just play a lawyer on TV, I would not have a clue about these matters but I do agree with the others that acting on this hypothetical would be a good way to be done in this business.

Because it sounded pretty smart to me!  Although I think the legal term is negligence, rather than blatant disregard for safety

I don't think we need an ambulance chaser to answer this one. I may take some pity on you, but there is no moral responsibility either. Pay your own bills too. That is also your responsibility.

-- Modified on 12/20/2014 9:11:11 PM

Very sharp, Counselor!  I didn't even think of that.

If you're an independent provider you're self employed. You are personally responsible for your own risks/liabilities, health insurance, and making your own decisions about whether you choose to go to the rainforest (or wherever) with a client.  

Posted By: Skinny_Minnie

For any lawyers out there, or those who play one on TV:  
   
 You took a provider to a foreign country and the provider got injured during an activity, let's say, hiking in the rainforest.  She slips and cuts her leg on a rock.  You take her to a doctor in that country, get her stitches, crutches, and pay for her medical bills.  But what about her time off work for seeing potential clients when back to the U.S.?  Does she have any claim against the client for putting her in an unsafe situation? (The rainforest).  If not a legal claim, would you feel morally responsible to pay her living expenses while she is on crutches?  
   
 NO!  I'm not suing anyone but had a similar situation happen and changed the details of the story.  But would like to hear what you guys have to say.

A reasonable person should understand that tripping and falling are dangers inherent to hiking in the rain forest. You voluntarily and knowingly assumed the risk when you agreed to the activity. This would likely bar any right to recovery from the tortfeasor.

You should post a new word everyday, so people like me with average vocabulary can help themselves..Maybe you can just email/pm it to me so we can avoid drama on the boards.  

Tortfeasor!  Where did I put that old law textbook?

Did you really need a lawyer to answer your question that any simpleton should be able to answer?

What if I were to invite a civie GF on the same trip, same circumstances and results. Would I be responsible for her lost income and such?

Would consider that case.

Posted By: Scarsdale

Things like this are somewhat complicated, both from a legal and practical standpoint.  Recovery could be possible but there are many hoops to jump through...  one would need to know your state of residence and some things about the person you were with.  Then there is something called assumption of risk, where you could be sol, or partially sol depending on your state.  But if you can get around that, which will be a bit of a challenge, your actual costs are one thing (and they could be more than just your medical bills and related expenses) but the costs due to the consequences of your injuries (assuming you're trying to get compensated for financial losses suffered due to an inability to engage in an illegal activity lol... ) will be what they call a novel theory... but alas, it ain't happening.  But this is a lot of inside baseball and probably best done off line.    
   
 sigh, I'd make a really bad provider wouldn't I because rather than charge my excessive hourly fee, I am just a sucker for giving it away  
   
 Oh yeah, my malpractice carrier would want me to say that none of this is to be construed as legal advice - let's call it fantasy legal stuff.  
   
   
 -- Modified on 12/20/2014 8:41:16 PM

-- Modified on 12/20/2014 8:59:08 PM

How do we know this? You don't know how to spell the word.  You edited your first attempt and still got it wrong.  Please apply to the Ravishing Rasha Law School and Bordello for remedial training.  She is very strict.

Fun thread...thanks for the laughs.

Posted By: Skinny_Minnie

Tortfeasor!  Where did I put that old law textbook?  

Why do people not take responsibility for their own actions? The first thing that comes to mind is "Can I sue somebody for this?"


-- Modified on 12/20/2014 6:56:45 PM

by OSHA (Occupational Suckoff  Happy Act).  Send me your social security number for filing purposes and I will get the balls rolling on this ASAP. We will also need a plaster impression of your depression in the event that anyone's joint was severed "in loco motion".

What Would Rod Do?

she wasn't offered accidently insurance prior to trip because of the nature of the endeavor .. umm sneaking off and fucking in the rain forest .. now is she able to sue based on the fact that she wasn't given the option of insuring herself on her journey .. hmm what say you to that counselor , and perhaps we can discuss it further over cock tails .....and if I may an out of court settlement may be accepted by my client , she doesn't want to hurt anyone if she doesn't have to.. xo  

...into the rainforest does not commit a tort simply by doing so.

If she's in a car with him and he gets into an accident, he is the tortfeasor.  If he was drunk and she knew it but rode with him anyway, she could be deemed to have assumed the risk.

I can't imagine telling a boss in the real world that you can't work because you're on crutches. It
may be (well it will be) difficult to work while you heal,  but unless you have a doctor's written note  
saying you can't work at all, - guess what? ... you are expected to come to work.

I went on a trip overseas with a client.  The boat we were on had an infestation of bugs, which I am (apparently) extremely allergic to.  The allergy pushed my histamine levels to the point I was having allergies to everything, when I've in past never had any allergy issues.  Several doctors visits, many pharmacy visits, acupuncture, new clothes, trauma and unbearable itching causing inability to sleep, and it taking a month to not look like I had the measles...

What if you have a customer at your hotel incall, and he falls out of bed and hits his head. Are you liable, or is it just his fault for being so klutzy he could fall out of a bed?

Re: Tortfeasor. I love it when Rrasha talks dirty. eom

If you’re willing to drop your suit, I’m sure I can get you off.

everythings money , someone dies / give em money .. courts / money .. it really is out of control , everything we do is about $$$$$$$$$ ..girls look for bf based on money , marriage all about money and in the end money .. funny isn't it .but the word you used im hearing more and more , I really am so the real problem is whats in the future because with an environment of entitlement how can a society sustain itself .. hmmmmmmmm

Posted By: perfectstorm

Why do people not take responsibility for their own actions? The first thing that comes to mind is "Can I sue somebody for this?"  
 

-- Modified on 12/20/2014 6:56:45 PM

The fact that an underwriter deemed the activity an uninsurable risk prior to the undertaking strengthens the assumption of risk argument.

even further.  The lady is the "pro" correct?  What if in the course of performing her professional duties she did something that caused injury to the gent (like perhaps caused him to throw his back out or something).

You are not just "any simpleton."

at this point it is sounds like all you are alleging as damages is loss of income from an illegal activity. I am the worst not-a-lawyer on the country but I think that could be a problem.  

but I say they are wasting their money.  If they really want to gamble, go to a courthouse.

In a casino you get to see a little ball bouncing around a wheel, or some machine booping and beeping, or some cards randomly displayed.

In a courthouse, you get a reality show which even beats Vegas' vaunted stage, mixed with Let's Make a Deal and The Price is Right.  (A little Jeopardy mixed in too.)

Just a little snippet from last night:

I entertained about 50 guests at my home for Hanukah, and spent about 5 hours before-hand preparing over 300 latkes (fried potato pancakes) for the ravenous but highly appreciative horde.  One of said horde (my cousin's latest heart throb) asked me for the recipe.  I warned her that the ramifications of preparing these latkes will bring about unbearable back and shoulder strain as I was then (much better now, thank you) experiencing, but she insisted.  Later, chatting with another cousin who is a real lawyer (not named Vinny!) I asked him if giving out the recipe to her would make me subject to damages should she experience the same physical ailments as I was suffering.  He laughed and said "no", but then became serious and intoned:  "I'd get a release first."

True story.

And of course:  Still not a lawyer

becise cops, thugs, pips ripoffs theres sue happys.

Her answer was too definitive, particularly in saying that there is no cause of action.  An attorney would never definitively say no, they would start off with "in my opinion," and they would then encourage you to seek a second opinion.   In a few words, fear of a malpractice laim.   Yes, this is only an "anonymous" fuck board, but habits are habits and an attorney would not come on the board to give what could be construed as legal advice and certainly not say "no way."

A lot of providers (on this board and elsewhere IRL) talk about doing this that because it's "their job." The terminology probably leads them to sometimes view their client as their boss, the one providing their "paycheck." Individuals who contract with each other as independent entities have a much different relationship to each other than employers have with their employees. So, in my way of thinking, liability seldom applies.

Of course you need to be enrolled in that to make a claim.

but I probably ought to do the barter first, don't you think ,...

Posted By: Dr Who revived

Would consider that case.  
   
 But you better plan on bartering. LOL  
   

Posted By: Scarsdale

Things like this are somewhat complicated, both from a legal and practical standpoint.  Recovery could be possible but there are many hoops to jump through...  one would need to know your state of residence and some things about the person you were with.  Then there is something called assumption of risk, where you could be sol, or partially sol depending on your state.  But if you can get around that, which will be a bit of a challenge, your actual costs are one thing (and they could be more than just your medical bills and related expenses) but the costs due to the consequences of your injuries (assuming you're trying to get compensated for financial losses suffered due to an inability to engage in an illegal activity lol... ) will be what they call a novel theory... but alas, it ain't happening.  But this is a lot of inside baseball and probably best done off line.      
     
  sigh, I'd make a really bad provider wouldn't I because rather than charge my excessive hourly fee, I am just a sucker for giving it away  
     
  Oh yeah, my malpractice carrier would want me to say that none of this is to be construed as legal advice - let's call it fantasy legal stuff.  
     
     
  -- Modified on 12/20/2014 8:41:16 PM  
   
 -- Modified on 12/20/2014 8:59:08 PM

eom

Never worry, lawyers can always  trump up er, find damages -- it's called creative lawyering; it's why lawyers are so lovable LOL
 

I am sure you're right.  In fact, I have definitive proof Rasha is actually a novelist

That just gets you through and MD or Demurrer and multiple SJ motions and Motions In Limine...  

All good points, but hell, any lawyer worth his or her salt would figure out a convoluted alternative reading of the loss of consortium cause of action, sue the shoe manufacturer, and try to get a LOC recovery for both Minnie and her john.  Now that's creativity.

-- Modified on 12/21/2014 10:47:08 AM

no claim can be upheld for an illegal activity
my guess

You are responsible for Workers comp insurance.  

Posted By: Skinny_Minnie

For any lawyers out there, or those who play one on TV:  
   
 You took a provider to a foreign country and the provider got injured during an activity, let's say, hiking in the rainforest.  She slips and cuts her leg on a rock.  You take her to a doctor in that country, get her stitches, crutches, and pay for her medical bills.  But what about her time off work for seeing potential clients when back to the U.S.?  Does she have any claim against the client for putting her in an unsafe situation? (The rainforest).  If not a legal claim, would you feel morally responsible to pay her living expenses while she is on crutches?  
   
 NO!  I'm not suing anyone but had a similar situation happen and changed the details of the story.  But would like to hear what you guys have to say.

she mostly definitely isn't and im wondering since he put he at risk will his personal umbrella policy be picking up the tab.. I still think we should discuss this over cock tails and perhaps a nice breakfast the morning after . ill also be filing a  motion to have you declared sexy as hell cause quite frankly you are ..xoxo.. some things in life are just delicious and you are one of those things ..big kiss .... happy holidays sweetie  

The local delicacies would rather taste you!

It's ok.  I'm his ATF

Look at the unclean hands doctrine.  It doesn't cover all aspects of the case

She's obviously taken more law classes than most people here.  Funny, no one has admitted to being a lawyer!  But I'm sure that's not a mistake.

...she is too smart!   Since Scarsdale and Chauncey G., two posters who usually have great and thoughtful things to say happen to be attorneys - at least I think they are -  I did not want to appear to bash lawyers.  They are also not young pups so I will say this: any smart young person willing to get into law these days really ought to have their head examined.

-- Modified on 12/21/2014 5:11:15 PM

Definitely, 100% not the case.  He didn't have to pay anything.  Risk v Reward of being self-employed, and you just stumbled onto a risk.

Massive trainwreck.  

Hooking of course is not, well not in this country at least, but in every country I can think of that actually has a rain forest, prostitution is legal.

None of this really matters of course, as forgetting about everything else wrong with this "case" suing for lost hooker income in the United States where it is most definitely illegal is ridiculous on the face of it.

Now it might be interesting to see what the laws regarding this are in the country in where the incident happened. I wouldn't be quite so quick to laugh, some countries have some very strange laws. of course ours included. lol

NOTE TO SELF: The next time I am in NYC, I must arrange a date with the lovely and seemingly legally-talented Rrasha!  

I thought you were the tart-feasor.