"when you go see your dentist, attorney, or psychiatrist, at the end of the appointment do you open your wallet, remove a few hundreds and toss them on their lap?"

No but I have handed the the money in form of a check many times. The cash thing is so there is no paper trail for LE to follow. I get handed cash quite often for my services and don't find it disrespectful. I always follow the ladies instructions on paying her to the letter out of respect but if I am not given any instructions I will just put it out in the open or sometimes just hand it to her to avoid misunderstandings. Sometimes in an envelope sometimes not. I don't see it as being disrespectful or degrading, in fact I find being upfront is being very respectful to both parties.

If you find it disrespectful to be handed money or to have plainly left out please respect the gent by letting him know your preference and not making him guess. I find silly games degrading.

Please don't take this post as an attack on you or how you handle your business as I do respect you and your opinion. I do find your post generally well thought out and insightful but sometimes you post things that plain make no sense to me. I guess it comes from the fact I have a totally different point of view. I could never see myself allowing anyone to be completely submissive to me nor can I see myself being completely submissive to anyone. I also like things very plain and in the open. But everyone is different and that is what makes the world great.

do most of you guys use an envelope when leaving the donation for the provider?  i was just wondering that cause i have been reading some reviews and most all of them mention "the envelope", but i can't remember the last time i used one.

I honestly don't remember ever having used an envelope in my entire life, and I have been doing this for well over thirty years.

From the responses below, it appears I am no longer in the minority. We had this very conversation here about a year ago, and White Knight tried to have me publicly flogged for not kowtowing to the ladies. Maybe the hobbyists here have finally found their ccllective nut sacks? lol

Envelopes are fucking waste of time, and I haven't had a single provdider out of literally thousands that I have seen, ever refuse my money just because it wasn't in an envelope.

don't know where and who you been with but the envelop is way normal and used in almost every case I've read or heard of. Haven't heard anyone say they're not using one. It's kinda the hobbyist 101, duh.
It's the standard way to provide the consideration without being rude and dropping money down.

it's much more discreet than laying the cash some where or worse handing it over.

Most providers prefer it and ask for it on their site.  I know some don't care but I've only seen one who actually asked clients NOT to use one (she had been ripped-off with an envelope stuffed with paper)

In addition to being preferred by many ladies, It's just simple common courtesy. A bit of discretion in a business that is built on that sort of thing.

You don't mention how you're handling the money exchange.  The envelope is standard operating procedure unless you're picking up streetwalkers.  A "call girl" is typically in a different socio-economic class than your average streetwalker.  I promise you some providers will be offended if you pull out your wallet and start counting out twenties in front of her.  

Perhaps you should read/review the TER FAQ because it sounds like you're winging it.  You're probably doing other unorthodox things that may cause unnecessary trouble for you and your providers.  --z

and no, despite all the protestations to the contrary, I have never been refused, or even heard a harsh word about not using an envelope in my life.

I am not a cynic, I just have a low tolerance for meaningless bullshit. If I were ever asked "nicely" by a lady to bring an envelope, I would probably acquiesce to her request, but women that make a big deal about it being degrading to be paid any other way should really make an honest assessment about their career choices. lol

If it's the money that makes them feel degraded, they could simply stop charging, I'd be ok with that. lol

Using an envelope will no more keep you out of jail than claiming you are only paying for her "time". if you find yourself in the room with LE, you are goig to jail, envelope or no.

and guys aren't angry about the envelope itself, some of us just find it ridiculous that some providers insist that we buy into their fantasies about what will keep them, and us safe.

If you want to sprinkle fairy dust around the room to keep out the bad spirits, you are more than free to do so, just don't insist that the rest of us do the same.

I DO check & double check my donation before embarking on my latest adventure.  I secure it in my key pocket.  Most often I use a paper clip to keep it together.  
A Fav lady is careful of what trash she leaves in the room (no C wrappers) that might draw attention of staff.  I'd think a waste basket of ripped open white envolupes would be a give away.  
skb

If my doctor, Attorney, or any other professional that I was paying several hundred dollars an hour to started insisting that I pay them in a certain way or they would feel degraded, you can bet your last dollar that I would be finding a new one.

I am respectful, but I expect to be respected in return. To insist that you be paid "only" via cash in an envelope lest you be "disrespected" is disrespectful to me.

There is a huge difference between throwing money on the nightstand or in your lap and the other dozen or so respectful ways to leave the money discretely without using an envelope.

I said this the last time we had this discussion, and I'll say it again. "any woman who DEMANDS she be paid via a cash filled envelope, won't be hearing from me"

It is "your business, your rules" but it's also my money, and I'll spend it on the women that make me feel good, demanding I jump through hoops does not make this guy "feel good" and I'll take my money elsewhere everytime.

Psychiatrist??? that's funny, Can you really see me going to visit a psychiatrist? rofl

There are many providers who at least claim to "insist" on it. I have not found any who objected when their "rule" was not followed. If any woman ever tells me that my cash somehow degrades her, I will be more than happy to rectify the situation by taking my money back.

and I don't get "left alone" I have to read every post, no matter how stupid. lol

Yep, always at least an envelope. Very often mine is a Thank You card in the envelope. If possible the envelope is the ladies favorite color.  

The envelope is the first thing I learned in regard how to go about all this. Even before reading reviews that leave no doubt envelops are the way to go.  Many of the ladies web sites make it clear that the envelope is standard. Don't talk about it just do it.

They would not have to go all the way with you. All they need is to prove your intent - no cash ever has to be exchanged - you don't even have to have a dollar on you to be convicted. Just another myth. You guys need to do your homework.

Yes, to all the above.  In fact, many girls make it clear that if the donation is done any other way, or even spoken about, it is grounds for immediate ending of the session.  This is also because of LE concerns, BTW, so it's more than simply a courtesy (though it is that, too).

Newbie here, but on my first, the lady told me she preferred the envelope to be plain, no names or anything on it.  The reason was some hobbyist give it up, and then when the lady leaves, they file a theft charge against them using the identifying writing on the envelope, which usually has a ficticious name on it not matching her real name.

I've never used an envelope and never had a problem.

I'll always have the donation in large bills, and always have it counted out ahead of time and folded in my pocket seperate from my other cash. The reason I use large bills is so when I lay the donation down (as soon as possible after entering), it's very easy for the lady to visually verify the total (even a mathematically challenged provider can count to 2 or 3) and move past that part of the encounter.

I'll then excuse myself to "wash my hands", which accomplishes two things... it gives the gal a chance to secure the donation if she so chooses (probably 50/50 on that one) and it gives me a chance to be sure there's no one in the bathroom that could comprimise my safety.

After my first couple of dates, I began to wonder if being one of a series of men walking through the hotel lobby holding a plain white envelope might raise suspicions, so I turned to stuffing it into a pocket instead.

-- Modified on 1/8/2011 10:16:23 AM

put down on the table or nightstand when entering her incall.

If she is coming to my hotel, I put the envelope next to the ice bucket.  What would hotel management/maintenance think, should they need to check something in your room, and they saw $$$$$ or $$$$$$ (or more) laying around? Similarly, the lotions and condoms are in the drawer, not out for eyes to see.

I can see the Thank You card.  I guess that's sort of sweet.  I think I am going to start paying for my groceries with Thank You cards too.  Maybe I will rub the envelope on my crotch so she can remember me after I leave.  I'm sure she'll save it by her bedside.

If I were a provider, I'd want to see the cash. I've done envelopes, and been gone before she even touched that envelope.  Just seems crazy to me.

Personally, I don't mind it if she checks the payment.  I'm not under any illusion that it's a date.  We're doing business.  She is welcome to see how much I paid.  I once arranged two hours, put two hours worth in the envelope, and somehow things got mixed up and her boyfriend came back after an hour.  He sat in the next room while we had an awkward half hour more.  

Or what if I had miscounted the money?  Maybe pulled some old rates off an old ad?

Business is business.  This envelope stuff is silly.

Since many of the providers specifically ask for it to be in a envelope have you ever had a provider turn you away when you didn't follow through on her instructions?

Actually I'm sure she'll throw it (the thank you card) away asap and spend the money. But I like to do it. The ladies I see regularly seem to like it. ( yeah, I know they are good actors, right?) I chose to skip the cynicism.

No, I put the envelop in the inside pocket of my jacket. I also put my  cell phone in my trouser pocket out of sight  while I'm walking thru the  lobby. And I don't bring flowers either.  If I decide to bring anything other than the donation, it all goes in my shoulder bag, so I look like any other guest walking thru the lobby. Not some hobbyist going to get layed.

Its like a hobbyist ritual.  It should be white too.  I use the licking kind.  I figure considering where all our tongues have been, the extra cost of self adhesive is a waste of money.

most of the gents who see me leave their donation in an envelope, and sometimes in a card as well (which i love). of those who use no envelope the cash is always discreetly "hidden," somewhere in the apartment where it will be easy for me to find but not highlighted and blinking "you're a whore, he's some cash for your whore services!!" for me it's nothing to do with LE concerns or anything of the sort, i just find the idea of a man handing me cash to be unbelievably crass and degrading to us both.

envelope can dampen the mood and set the stage for a bad visit. Before I leave home, I make sure it is in a safe place and is never out of my sight. One of my hardest decisions before leaving is "does the lady want a letter-size envelope, or is she a 'legal envelope' type of person? Her website doesn't say!" Once, I had to borrow an envelope from the hotel front desk. Talk about going into the session red-faced! I'm surprised she agreed to see me again.

If no instructions are given I will put it in plain site sometimes in an envelope sometimes gut left out plain to see. One time I folded the cash in a jewelry box that had a silver necklace with a frog pennant in it because I knew she collected frogs. I kind of like the envelope as it makes it less likely for simple errors like one bill getting separated from the rest. But for politeness sake if the lady has instructions I always follow them to the letter.

I used to do the envelope, until I started asking the women about this whole envelope thing, and discovered they had no good reason for it either, except 'that's just how it's done'.  A while ago a provider said the usual 'bring an envelope...' and I was 'OK no problem but I don't have any envelopes...' (I was traveling and not about to go buy a box of envelopes for some stupid envelope tradition).  And she says 'But the agency says this is how we're supposed to do it...'  (she was sort of new to the biz)  And I say 'The agency doesn't care as long as you hand over their share.  You want the money or not?'  And she says 'fine...'  We ended up good (OTC) friends.

I haven't handed over an envelope in a long time.  I just lay the money on the table or whatever as I go in.  Crass?  Sure, whatever.  Call it any way you like.  I don't care.  I'm otherwise very respectful, decent-looking, and in very good physical shape.  I hobby because I like discrete variety and something occasionally sort of weird without the emotional drama or hassle of real dating.  I think being clean and not gross is way more important than some stupid envelope.  And I've never met a good service-oriented woman (and should we be paying anyone who is not anyway?) who has ever had a problem with meaningless stuff like envelopes.  Smart talented women know what they want, and I'm pretty sure envelopes are low on the list.

Seriously -- envelopes?  Reminds me of a corny movie I saw the other day where these two groups of criminal guys approach and then stop 20 feet apart in a parking structure and one *slides* the briefcase full of money to the other with his foot.  WTF?  No one does this shit in real life.  Should the envelope be sealed?  Won't there be DNA evidence on it then?  Maybe it should be handled with gloves and sealed with nontraceable bottled water.  Man, you guys crack me up...

Who would've thought this question woul get so much board action.  With so much emotion behind it?  The origin of the envelope is obviously for LE.  Lay the envelope on the table, lay the provider on the bed, no crime was committed.  What's withe the guys who are angry about it?

If obtaining an envelope required me to sail to the other side of the world and slay armed guards in order to purloin one from a locked vault, I might say fuck that and just drop the money openly on her table. To date, I've spent roughly $1 total and two seconds of wasted time per visit to follow the protocol.

You guys get it who don't do the envelope.one, how can it be degrading our crass, we both know what we are there for. Two, just cause its in an envelope means nothing to le, your ass is geting a free ride.three,i use to give an envelope when I first started, now not at all, but I don't go out of my way to hand it to a girl.i find a discrete time to place it somewhere they will see it, and i  9 out 10 times leave it at the end.the only real safe time to give up the cash is at the end though (and really not much safer) cause if its le, theyre gonna have to go all the way with me now that would be dedication to the job and i'd have an awesome story to tel!

Yep, it is getting a bit ridiculous at this point.  Look, I do the envelope because every gal I've seen since my return two months ago makes it clear they want it that way.  Why would I potentially fuck up a session from the get-go by flouting such a simple request?  But as for the "degradation" of the gal being presented with cash, well, gag me with a spoon.  I buy the illusion of GFE but, c'mon!  We're adults here (mostly).  How does putting the $$$ in an envelope change anything?  I thought GFE was for the guy?  You know, the guy paying the money for the service.  Now it's to salve the delicate feelings of the provider?  Please.  If taking money for this service makes you feel degraded then maybe you're in the wrong business.  As for me, I don't feel it's degrading to you at all.   I like P4P.  I like all the ladies I've met who do it.  I really do actually respect them.  The whole thing is a simple and honest transaction between two people (or more!) and is much more honest than dating and, sadly too often, marriage itself.  Thus endeth the rant...

when you go see your dentist, attorney, or psychiatrist, at the end of the appointment do you open your wallet, remove a few hundreds and toss them on their lap? surely it doesn't require much brain power to comprehend the fact that some acts are degrading and others are not. i have NO shame in what i do as a provider...in fact i take quite a bit of pride in it and know that in my elderly age i shall look back upon these days with fondness. there is nothing degrading in anything i do for my clients, and nothing dirty or low-class about the relationships i share with them. but to toss some bills on the dresser and and mosey on out as if you just had the car washed? yeah, that is degrading. for him, for feeling himself deserving of nothing better, and for me, for accepting to spend any time in the company of such a person in the first place.

and to be clear, i make no demands about how i should be treated, i have no list of Rules to follow to the letter. but i do expect to be treated as a human being one likes, respects, and appreciates...because if i am not (liked, respected, appreciated), then why on earth is he with ME?

so yes i prefer an envelope, but i find placing the cash discreetly out of sight acceptable as well. at bottom it just comes down to respect...some have it, some don't.

it doesn't seem as though anybody is insisting anything.  it's an envelope.  are you going to be okay if youre left alone today?

lmao!

Dang if you have to read all of my posts I feel sorry for you as some of them are beyond dumb. But I don't feel sorry enough to stop.

as i've stated several times now, i make no such demands (or any other demands) of my clients. i also stated that there are quite natural and respectful ways to leave cash without an envelope. but you seemed to find it somehow funny or ridiculous that any woman would find a man tossing cash to her as one would leave a tip to the pizza guy degrading and disrespectful. i simply wished to illuminate for you just how and why such act would be degrading. that's all.

as for your seeing a psychiatrist, i'm sure there are a few out there who would welcome the challenge.

but i've never had this conversation with any of my clients. i've never actually experienced someone NOT paying me in a respectful manner, and have never had to say a word about it. that would be silly anyway, as at least with the relationships i develop with clients, every facet of the dynamic needs to be genuine and natural. games and fantasies are for children, imo. i don't believe it's a coincidence that i've never met a man who found it natural to put cash in my face.

It's bad enough that he refuses to listen, but I have to spend 45 minutes preening before he shows up.  Then he pays me in $20's and I have to shower when he leaves.  I wish that I had more clients so that I could refer him out, but I need the money.

i haven't been doing this long enough to know why this envelope thing is getting so much play the way it is, so i can only look at it as funny or crazy.  I guess another way of looking at it is that it breaks "the suspension of disbelief" for GFE enactment, to throw a wad of bills at the girl on the way out.  "Thanks, baby, don't spend it all in one place!"

I was not talking about paying in such a rude fashion but simply setting the money down in front of her or maybe handing it to her like I pay for most goods and services. It is my default way of paying as it is the way I would prefer to be paid if I was a provider. I have great deal of respect for the honest providers who do this job.

Yes, there are those who enjoy the challenge.  There are also those interested in working in correctional settings. A friend works at a prison for violent offenders, where the inmates' name for her is "Doctor Bitch".  She finds the challenge interesting.

Why the fuck is this even an issue, fellow hobbyists? Are you such contrarians and control freaks that you have to do everything your way? A lot of life is about presenting the banal truth in more attractive ways. Social grace may not be everyone's thing but forgoing an envelope (when requested) because it's "stupid" is like not shaking another's outstretched hand. Sure you have the right, but it still makes you a dick.

I always put the donation in an envelope  with a nice thank you card. No one has ever commented  to me but I am glad to hear in a few of  these posts that others do the same and that  the gesture is appreciated.

I have been hobbying for almost 10 years and have never used an envelope. Not once has a provider not seen me because the donation was not in an envelope.   I use large bills and discreetly lay the donation on the desk next to the the TV or ice bucket.  I never say anything about it and excuse myself to the bathroom to freshen up.  I think the envelope is just a formality that some  younger ladies feel more comfortable.

.

During the many years in this biz, the only time I have been shorted is by guys who place it in an envelope.  So if anyone using them now, I take it out and count it before he leaves.  I hate doing that because it ruins the moment.  But I have to in order to make sure it is all there.

I can see the sense of what your saying. I admit I thought of that as a draw back when I read the instruction to use one. But what do you say about the fact that every agency I have used and indie I have seen specifically states to use one? Some are rather emphatic about it. I use them as I said because it was requested. I see it as appropriate to comply.

I'm not trying to argue just interested in finding out all I can from every point of view.