Despite my efforts to leave no trail in this hobby my fiancé has put enough circumstantial evidence together to bust me and forced a confession - at least a partial one.  I hated lying to her anyway... so now she is taking a break from me and us but is willing to consider coming back if "none of this ever happens again" - meaning no porn, no internet sex sites or email, no escorting (duh!)- almost a mental policing.  Seems wrong.  Maybe I did this and left enough of a trail to kill the relationship.  Still thinking about that one...  She thinks I have a sex addiction - one model for looking at what I am doing.  She certainly has benefited from aspects of that addiction!  : )  I prefer other models - like the one where I make choices and take responsibility for them and try to figure out why because I need all sides of me to be "out" - the shadow sex obsessed side and the responsible loving friend, etc.  Blah, blah.  I feel it is ALL good.

Anyway, we are both hurting big time and I would love to "make her happy" by complying with her request but it seems like the wrong answer.

Just wonder how others have dealt with discovery...

One of my mottos is Fidelity with a SO, including a wife is not a given, it must be earned.  Is your fiance making every effort to satisfy you sexually (within reason)?  If so, she has a right to expect fidelity.  If not tell her what you need and try to work it out.  Obviously you are quite adventuresome regarding sex, and perhaps she is repressed.  If that's the case you should definetley move on and tell her not to let the door hit her in the ass on the way out.  Kidding!!!  I told my wife not to expect fidelity until after we walked down the isle.  That is what marriage is for.  However just prior to our wedding she wanted to make sure that I would not stray once married. I in turned asked for the following:  1) Stay in good physical shape (she has done that.  2) Provide sex lovingly and generously, in the same manner before marriage.  She in the last few years has not done this, so I found a hobby.  It is she that has broken her vows, so I hobby guilt free.

It is hightly unlikely that you two will "Live happily ever after."

Here is what I went through.  (greatly truncated):

Got caught.  Promised to stop.
Got caught again.  Went to councellig.
Refused to quit.  Wife decided to play around herself.
Bliss for a few years.
Divorce.  Savings of a lifetime gone in seconds.
Hobby as much as I can afford.
Meet Ms. Fisher.
Bliss

Upshot:

Who knows?

Every story is different and needs it's own solution.  Start with advice from people who know you best (brothers if you have them, sisters too, maybe even parents.) Look for someone who is not judgemental. (Not an easy task)
When you know what you want to do, discuss it with the SO, you never know until you try.
It sounds like she is the controlling type and I know that would never work for me.

Also, try asking the Love Goddess on the "Erotic Highway" board to the left.
She is one righteous dudette.

Everynow and then, I read a post, and think to myself, we are at the same place, but got there on different roads... this is such a case.

Here is what I wnt through (greatly truncated):

Met gal on vacation - we had very similar backgrounds...
Fell in love and got married.
Had a kid...
When kid was 1 year old, I lost job... but we were ok financially...
Wife spent more than we had... on very silly stuff...
Wife got offered better job, we moved, both kids were old enough - for me to get a job and I did.
Wife put EVERYTHING in between us in the bedroom...
No SEX!
Criticism in every aspect of my life from wife.
I was totally faithful
Wife found another dude...
Wife files for divorce...
I move out of house, divorce granted...
Savings of a lifetime... diminished considerably.
I focus on kids.
wife focuses on the fact that she is pregnant by another dude...
dude moves in, and they marry.

I hobby.  and maybe I am ready to quit... because over the past 6 months or so, some very strange things have happened to me.... zen like kinda.  

Who knows... Every story is different and needs it's own solution.  yada, yada, yada....

What I will tell you is simple. If you continue and go forward with your SO, someone will get hurt.  You will get caught.  No ifs ands or buts about it.  Why? She already distrusts you.  People have asked if I would return to my wife... my answer is no, because I would always be looking for the "next guy" - not a good way to live.  

As for you, while I see nothing wrong with the hobby, because it affords a sexual outlet without the emotional crisis that colors civie relationships and affiars, it too, carries an emotional toll.  We are all familiar with the toll on the providers, but there are also tolls on the hobbiests...

I can only tell you, that there are no simple answers, and the answer for me, may be totally wrong for you, but If I were in your SOs place, I would think very carefully about having you back, why?  because this means a lot to her.

by the way, I was very faithful during my marriage.... I had no idea that she was cheating on me, although there were signs all over the place... late night meetings, sunday AM runs, even a pair of men's boxers in my underware drawer... (that got blamed on the maid).  but once it was over, all became obvious....  

worse part... I now no longer think that she was ever faithful to me.  So I hope you can see how this works...

Sorry, did not mean to be a downer... ESPECIALLY on this board, but you need to go forward with your eyes wide open.  (see my post below about a friend - actually two friends - locked in a loveless marriage and unable to break out... it is kinda like prison)  Good luck.

Same generic plot, different local color.

As an engineer, I was sent abroad for weeks at a time to work with engineering teams around the world. These trips were not overnight sales visits. Received loving phone calls and love letters from dear wife. Remained romantically faithful.

Several years later, still getting passionate love letters, I came home to find wife had run off with a neighbor (and executive at my corporation). My neighbors volunteered information that the affair had been going on for some time.

Wife started to dress like our teenage daughter and refused counseling with me. I finished raising our kids. Later, as an empty nester, discovered the hobby. It is a life saver.

Providers, do you run across clients like this. Not guys "cheating" (no criticism intended) but instead fellows you might have fallen for years ago who would have been devotedly faithful to you?

. . . faithful husbands. . .

For the first 50 years of my life I had sex with only one woman -- my wife, now separated for 4 years, 6 if you count the non-talking 2 years. For the last year, I had sex with a several dozens of women.

Before we married she said that if I cheated -- just once -- the marriage would be over. I had no problems with that; I had no intention of cheating. After I was separated, my first born decided to move to California to finish high school and my younger son decided to go to a boarding school, both against my wishes. Suddenly I was free and started hobbying.

mightaswellfaceit, you might as well face it, your marriage will no longer be the same; you have a choice between a marriage based on mistrust or a life of freedom. For me, I need a completely open relationship; I will stop hobbying when, or if, I find an SO.

I find all your life experiences very interesting, but I have one question for all of you. Looking back now at your marriage(s) or failed marriage(no offense) were you and your spouse really "in love" or did you just get married and have children because societal norms? I know I am only hearing one side of the story, but your ex-wives seemed to abandon the children and start a family with another man like its trivial. This shock me the most.

You don't want to get married. Either not yet or not with her. The truth is simple but living it is not : ).

So from now on..

Use a pay phone and go internetting at an internet cafe or library

1.  You have no intention of stopping.  To the contrary, your apparent goal is to integrate your hobbying into your life.  

2.  Given #1, you are only going to have a successful marriage if: (1) You and your spouse practice "don't ask, don't tell" (a "model" for many long-term marriages), (2) You marry a woman who accepts your lifestyle within appropriate limits (but you should be prepared for the possibility that she herself will become  interested in poly-possibilities, eg swinging or sharing that escort with you).  

3.  Your current fiance has zero chance of fitting either (1) or (2) above.  She wants you to be the man you are not prepared to be.  It's a deal-breaker.  Accept it now or accept it later (with alimony).

4.  Are you a sex addict?  Who knows.  But your sexual behavior is a large part of your life and IMO you need to accept that and take  responsibility for that part of your personality or down the road it will kick your ass.

I've never really understood why men hobby if they're getting it at home and made a commitment, but then again I don't question anyone I'm with on a date. Like I said, if I had a boyfriend I wouldn't be doing this.

I've also talked to many people who have worked out their problems and it has actually made their relationship stronger. It depends on the people involved. However, if you already know you will be unfaithful, why marry?

Hugs,
Ciara

-- Modified on 6/19/2006 11:19:55 AM

Look Man you need to move on. Maybe you do have a sex addiction if so, so what, fix it and move along but you will not survive in that relationship if she has that kind of power over you. She will be watching you like a grandma and eventually you will snap. It just happens that way. I am 46 and been through it. My ex was beautiful and became somewhat more interested in the lifestyle that my brain and work could provide that what my 3 inches of throbbing manhood could provide, so like most anyone else I wandered.I found something new, wonderful, warm, horny and not as uptight about sex and play and open communication about needs, wants and desires. I am with her still. It has been 18 years now. Do I explore other places? of course that is why I am here. You may never find everything you want from one person. Many of us are like that. Men and Women need various stimulation and if you never go anywhere else you never get variety. Some people do not need anything different, some do not like sex all that much, some find it painful,discusting or dead wrong unless you are procreating in the name of the Holy Man upstairs. The answer probably is that you were not satisfied and you did something about it. Do not beat yourself up about that just learn from it. Let yourself teach you about you. The bottom line is you were doing whatever you were doing and there was some underlying reason. Do not get caught up in the Oprah, Dr.Phil thing and call it some addiction. Yeah I like to spank providers who wear tight jeand and call me Daddy so what??? Relax Man find someone you are more compatable with. Do not become her bitch and let her run you. Unless of course you are into that which case have fun, lick her boots and beg to lick her clean after she goes #2. Maybe that is what you both want. Best bet talk openly about why you did what you were doing and do not promise to never do it again. More than likely you will and you will be right back in this spot again except with maybe a kid or two and a mortage and two car payments. take it easy.There is someone out here for you and this current women is not the one. If she is making you feel shitty about this it is only practice for years to come and she will pull this out and beat you with it on a regular basis for here until the end of time. You will never get out of jail with her.

If you are seeing a major difference now, just wait until she has your 1st kid.  That being said, it's not unusual or unfair for a prospective spouse to expect sexual fidelity.  For her to try to block all your fantasies and viewing porn suggests her attitude toward sex and sexual fantasy is very different than yours.  You could try talking about compromise on the internet porn, promising to keep it away from her if it offends her.  Only you can answer whether you are willing to be faithful to her.  That's not an unreasonable demand and if you can't honor that committment you and she are better off not being married.

It's quite possible that at some point in time we thought we were in love (or perhaps we really were but changed). Love also changes over time. A person who is totally infatuated with someone in the beginning might mistake that for love. For me, true love is with someone you're not only attracted to (be it looks or chemistry. I prefer chemistry), but it is also a friendship based upon things you have in common and good communication mixed with respect. It's also being with that person through thick and thin. If you can respect someone else's changes and still love that person, then great. If not, then you might have to move on. I find that men who respect me and my opinion will get a lot further with me than men who really don't understand me and who are condescending. Instead of trying to make everything a joke, learn when to really listen and be serious and learn when it's appropriate to joke. If you screw up (like I have occasionally), then learn to say "I'm sorry." Who couldn't forgive that? Also learn to think things through before you speak -- a common mistake made by many of us (to include me)Now that's a hard thing to do for some people.

Hugs,
Ciara

.... "I prefer other models - like the one where I make choices and take responsibility for them and try to figure out why because I need all sides of me to be "out" - the shadow sex obsessed side and the responsible loving friend, etc.  Blah, blah.  I feel it is ALL good.
"

Well that would be a change because, actually, you've not been taking responsibility at all until now.  Conversely, you've been evading responsibility by acting behind your fiancees's back.  

Now you've been caught and - mea culpa, mea maxima culpa - you're at last thinking about doing the right thing, but .... but.... God, it's all been so damn tempting, hasn't it?  So exciting?  Enticing?  Even the discovery itself is kind of ... ennervating?  I'll bet you've kind of woken up to a new sort of reality - the kind of mix that comes as part awakening, part adrenaline rush of shock.

Of course by submitting to your fiancee's demands you are NOT allowing "all sides of me" to be out.  You'll be burying the side of you which you claim to be a good one, the one you evidently need so desperately to continue to function in the way you want, the one that makes you fulfilled.

Essentially, your fiancee wants you to be a person you can't be.  She wants you to change your spots.  But she ought to know the fable about leopards, and if she's forgotten someone ought to remind her.

Aphra
 

to get caught. Unless she catches you face down, ass up, you'd better not confess to anything. My question is, if you hated lying to her, why were you living such a duplicitious life? Leaving a trail is just the wrong thing to do. Confession hurts everyone, helps no one. If you want to walk away from this and lead this ideallic life that she believes in, then do so. If not, getting solace from these pages in a dubious attempt to clear your ratty conscience.

As you may guess I am still considering my options.   I am in my 50s, she's in upper 40s - you'd think we would both "know what love is" by now but apparently the mystery continues to surprise.  She is (I believe) 100% in love with me but of course that was before she know all of me...  I am somewhere around 95-99% in love with her with lots of compatabilities (including, actually, wonderful sex) and 5 year track record of great times, lots of mutual friends, etc.  She's been a great life partner...

So why this "other side" for me?  Mid-50s last shot at exploring the wide world of wonderful women?  the missing 1-5%?  self-destructive premarital acting out?  some "exhilerating" new world opening?  or am I just on my way to the sad life of the lonely 60 year old guy with my porn and escort flings?

Lots of forks in this road shimmering in the distance.  I don't think I can promise much about what paths I won't take as I walk forward.  I don't think she can accept that.  In the "real world" (apart from this message board) it would be crazy to expect her to.

I truly appreciate the replies so far and hope to see a few more before this thread makes it's way to the space beneath the screen.  We can learn a lot in this biz, can't we?  At $$$ per hour it's quite an education.

Prior to getting married, I thought all women enjoyed sex. When I dated my wife she said that there would be no sex till we were married. I agreed. However, during our dating, she allowed me to finger her to orgasm on several occassions. I would go home and have to complete my side by myself. Once we got married, we tried to make love our wedding night, but it hurt too much. We waited 3 days and tried again. Once again it was painful. I was totally patient and caring. Even after a few years we still rarely made love because she was always tired or not in the mood. It took four years for me to have my first affair. It lasted 6 months. Second time was another four years. After 12 she said she was sorry she neglected me, but the children and her job were more important. I thought things would change, but they didn't. Now after 20 yrs and three kids, I am considering a new hobby. Did she really love me? Or am I just a good fatherly provider. Tried a separation 3 years ago...  but my youngest (7yrs) started to struggle with me being away. While we were separated, she did ask if we could still have sex.. Which is strange... We make love and she is good for 4 to 5 weeks before she gets horny again...  I'm lost..  She loves what I do, but only wants it once every 4 weeks..  I never considered cheating in my life till I met my wife...

Why hold back the 1-5%?

I think he's getting a rush out of getting caught. She'll never trust him, even when (if)he goes straight. And if it was as good as all that, why creep? His story is like swiss cheese. Who can she believe? If I loved her that much sex, friends were as good as he described, I'd pack it in until we had something a lot worse than what he professes to be...

...and now wants THREE beers out of every sixpack!!!
I think I'll take the divorce.

that's why I have always wanted to try someone on first before considering marriage, even when I was younger. I feel your pain.

I know it won't make you feel any better, but when I'm in love with someone, I'm the one who usually wants it all the time. I lived with someone who drank too much years ago and didn't want to have sex that often. I was in the same boat as you, so I know what you mean.

Hugs,
ciara

In the end, was I really in love with my ex?  complicated, I was in love with the person that she presented herself to be... and potentially she really thought that she was...  

Sadly, she is not now that person... question, was she ever.  Do not mistake, she believes that she is justified... as do we all.  That is how we get through life... If we did not believe that we are justified, we would self-destruct fairly quickly.

now me?  I actually think that I am a better person now... not perfect, just a little better.

and my ex and I now act more like each other...  That is, I took on some of her better approaches to problems as she took on some of my approaches to problems.... It kinda works.

With respect to having kids!  lol!  I think she planned the first one... in fact, she planned an elaborate way to tell me that my son was on his way.... with my daughter - well, lets just say she was a surprise!  and what a surprise...  

So, I never planned to have either kid... and my ex never planned to have the second kid... when we did!  



-- Modified on 6/19/2006 8:24:51 PM

It seems to me that there is a part of love that you "make" through intention and effort and a part that you "find" and can't force, stop or even allow - it just is.  If I could make myself lose all thoughts of other women and just want my fiance I probably would - been there before years ago when I fell head-over-heals at that 100% "found" level with someone else.  She - how about that - dumped me.

I have many "reasons" why I should be able to get that 100% level with my fiance. But reasons don't make it happen.  When she met me... she stopped looking.  I didn't.  It wasn't a matter of choice.

Now, however, we have big choices to make.  By the way, I get no enjoyment from lying to my fiance - it feels bad and I like to feel good.  Selfish in a way.  I was willing to take the internal heat from keeping this secret but she was very skilled in her discovery process.  However, it is still an open question for me about why I left the few clues I did.

Sigh... what a tangled web we catch ourselves in.

> she was very skilled in her discovery process

You don't say her history (not that you have to), but if she caught you it sounds like she may have been through this before and knows what to look for.

If that's the case she must really love you if she's willing to give you a second chance, but very naive too.

All I can say is if you decide to swear off the hobby and commit to her you better mean it.  At your age you're not just some 20 something sowing his oats.  Hurting her again after she gave you a second chance would be unforgivable and very selfish.

It seems like it ought to be a simple choice, her 24/7 devotion, love and sex versus what... 20 hours a year (if you're an active hobbyist) of decent, but not intimate, encounters with strangers?   Ahh... but it's not that easy is it?

To tell you the truth I doubt you can do it, and it's probably lucky this came to light now, before you two got married.  But if you decide to follow the path of true love over periodic adventure, then you better be a man of your word.  There's nothing more pathetic than a habitual liar.  And she deserves the truth and your commitment.


-- Modified on 6/20/2006 2:04:43 AM

Just curious.  How would you handle it if the shoe were on the other foot.  If you caught her cheating?  Many of the men who participate in this hobby of ours feel justified in doing so but how many would extend that same justification to their spouses or SOs?  - Lia

Thanks Ciara,

The worst part is that before I had the first affair, I spoke to her about my feelings and we also went to 3 marriage counselors. I share your feeling about trying someone out before marrying. However, because of religion my daughters have decided to wait till marriage. The one thing I can say to you is this...  When my wife and I do make love... I'm not thinking of other women..  It's only when she says no/I'm tired/ or not in the mood after about 2 weeks... I'm horny as hell. The worse part...  even masturbation sucks now...  I've just done it too much.  

I know the answers... either divorce her..  or become a hobbyist. I don't want to leave her... So, I have my answer...

P.S.  I'm taking my son on a father-son vacation.. We're going on a cruise to the Bahamas.. Just me and him... Wooohooo!!!!

She is an attractive lady; may not be able to type very well, though.
Here is the correct link.