Here's a question for the board.  Suppose the USA adopted the kind of standard that Holland has.  Escorting became legal.  Women (and men) interested in providing the service would need to obtain a license.  They would also need to get routine health checks.  They could operate freely, advertise, etc.  What would happen overall to the business?

On the positive side, women wouldnt be afraid of getting busted nor would their clients.  That's got to be a positive.  Might reduce the number of nasty pimps out there (that would certainly be good, but the degree to which they got forced out of the business is hard to say).  Would a lot of women who are thinking about getting into escorting but have held back because of fear of legal issues all of sudden enter into the market?  And if that happened, would the supply of escorts increase dramatically thereby lowering overall costs?  That might be bad for the ladies already in the business.  On the other hand, maybe the demand would increase because guys wouldnt be nervous about LE?  

Opinions?

Rates have always been lower in Europe, and it has very little to do with it being legal. I don't think it would impact the US the same way, because legal or not, the US has always been a bit more conservative on its views about sex...especially sex for money. I know prostitutes in Europe who hire a nanny to tag along to the same hotel mommy is turning tricks at...that's not the norm here.  

Employers would still paint with the same stigma they do now. Making slavery illegal did not wipe out racism. Making same sex marriages legal in certain areas did not make certain people more accepting. Decriminalization is always the better option. The government has interfered with my life enough, already. I don't need them in my bedroom.

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and just like LR stated, there is still a stigma attached.

The problems it does solve are the virtual elimination of pimps, it also makes it much safer for both man and woman alike. Women are not scared of reporting hobby related violence or even "theft of service" by Johns that don't want to pay. "Trick rolling is curtailed immensely, guys are not afraid to report that a hooker rolled them. Many hotels in fact keep the ID's of sex workers at the front desk until the guest has informed them that "all is well" and that they are satisfied and conscious before the front desk will return the ladies documents.

All in all it works much, much better than it does here.


As for prices, that is more a factor of the economics of the country than whether or not the hobby is legal. Even in countries like Ecuador or The Philippines where rates are dirt cheap by American standards, hookers still make a lot more money than they could by any other job that might be available to them, a lot more in most instances.

For example, opinion polls in places where prostitution is legal and not as stigmatized as here consistently come back with the message that people have no issues with it for the most part, but they sure would not want their mother, wife, sister or daughter to do it, so the stigma remains on some level.

The term pimp is applied in all sorts of ways, but if we take the broadest definition, which is that it is someone who acts as a middleman between a client and a prostitute, there is no reason to think that goes away. There still would be a role for individuals and companies who help ladies to get started, market their services and manage the business end of things for the "talent," like agents do in any form of performance or personal service. There would be very professional ones, and sleazy ones. Personally, I think the stereotypical, shady, violent pimp is, like most stereotypes, pretty rare, if not non-existent, but since I have no direct experience to base that on, I cannot pretend to be an expert.

In most countries where prostitution is legal, solicitation and being an agent for prostitutes remain illegal, so being a "pimp" would likely still be against the law. In my experience, that has not eliminated the role or need for agencies, they just tend to operate (or appear to operate) offshore and as UTR as practical so they will be prosecuted.

If we assume that laws against prostitution deter both providers and clients, it seems safe to assume that there would be an increase in both supply and demand if the laws were to change or go away. Lots of folks seem to assume that supply would increase faster than demand, but I am not sure why that would be the case. I suppose there might be a greater supply of inexpensive, newbie girls who try it out briefly and then quit, but my guess is that the number of ladies who make it past a couple of months, turning this into a full time job or at least a long term part time job, would not change that much. And the demand for them would go up a little, so pricing seems unlikely to change much. Purely speculation, though.

The thing that always surprises me about these conversations is how many people around here think legalization would be bad for the business one way or another. I understand that people tend to be afraid of change, but removing LE from the equation seems like a good thing, even though the adjustment process would undoubtedly be less than perfect. Most likely there would be some form of onerous regulation to appease the more straight-laced, backlash against sex workers as they came out more publicly, local regulations to try to drive them out, etc. So I am under no illusion that it would solve all problems, and it surely would create new ones, but it would remove a major risk, a major stigma, and be another step in the process to treating sex workers with the respect they deserve, allowing them to lead more normal, integrated lives, and reduce the likelihood that they would be permanently marginalized by a criminal record.

zig

I am in favor of decriminalizing providing.  I am afraid of "legalizing it."  
What limits might be placed?  
No role playing that insults religion (ie no Nun's outfits.) No Dato because the majority leader of the state house finds this disgusting..  Imagine trying to oppose that:  "State Rep so and so is in favor of people sticking their tongues up each others ass".   etc
 I am also worried because I know three ladies who provide occasionally and under the radar.  If they had to register and get licenses not one would do it.
Finally, I have a special friend and two friends with benefits.  The many years special friend got in to some financial difficulties and I gave her a considerable mount of money.  Would we have been disobeying the law because we have sex and now I have given her money without a license.
There should be no crime in providing but I am afraid of Law-ifying things.

My exact stance. I am not getting a hooker license...as if. You can pay taxes without broadcasting what you do for a living. It's classified under "personal services" on any business license form you must fill out.

What is worse? a ticket for not having current paperwork, or LE stings on an illegal yet victimless crime?

I agree that the Government makes a lousy and oppressive pimp, but legalized prostitution works just fine in most of the rest of the world.

Does not have to be legal, to be decriminalized...that's the point. There is no crime in the latter, and no need for a license. We can still operate discreetly, fk who we want, when we want, for the price we want, without having to toss our real ambitions for other things out the door.

that legalization would be worse than what we have today.

I agree that the best possible solution would be to simply take all laws criminalizing sex for pay off the books, but some regulation would not necessarily be a bad thing, things like health cards could separate "high end" legal providers from potentially dangerous street trash.

Over regulation of course is always a risk, but as Gina said, the business will simply go underground and the other benefits like hookers being able to report abuse without fear of going to jail themselves would still remain.

there is to hang out at a singles' bar.  In fact, there's probably better reason to regulate the latter, not that I'm saying it should be.

I have to have a business licence, be bonded, be insured, many of my employees need a licence or permit, some are rewired to have health cards, many of my employees are re required by law to pass background checks, and my equipment need to be inspected. No other business decriminalized, why should hooking?

What if the providers all decided that with their new status, they would form a union and sue for privacy rights as well as higher rates all around the globe, or they could refuse to service certain areas? Ooops!  

Also consider providers as a whole could influence the government to pass laws requiring all clients' full legal names, and a recent STD test. Sure many wives would love that. They could also sue you if you did not wash your ass, got them pregnant, or came in their eye. Like another poster said, the services required would diminish pending who was making the rules. You boys might have to go back to the days of cbj, one pop, and nothing else. Yea, sounds like fun!!!!

The exchange of money for a service, business management such as keeping appts. returning emails, etc. and supply and demand, are really the only things we have in common with other businesses. Once we are naked in a room with a stranger, the correlation to another business is simply not there. Providers don't serve the masses a product that has to account for usage depreciation or shelf life, though many will stop seeing providers after a certain age. The government simply has no right being in my vagina, or any other woman's...period!  

You might have a point with how an agency can treat their employees, but not with a private and sole owner. You can't force a private business that sells their body to have insurance...that falls on the guy buying the ass. If we wants to insure his c*ck from an STD, go for it. Most providers have a business license, but it's not for providing lol. I would never work in this industry if it were legalized.  

If I want the government watching my every move and knowing every guy I see, I will go to a brothel. That is not how I choose to work. What if they put a ceiling on the amount of clients a provider was allowed to see a day? Fine with me, but what about the women who see 3 or 4? What if they cut that down to only 1 or you had to pay a fine? I don't think many people realize what they are asking when they invite the govt. into their lives.

-- Modified on 5/24/2013 2:35:22 PM

much less become a political force.

What everyone seems to forget is that prostitution is already legal in most of the non Muslim world, with none of the ill effects you seem to fear.

You forget that other countries do not have a govt. like OURS though. That is why what we fear, is relevant.

telling you you cannot rent out your pussy without breaking the law and being subject to criminal prosecution.

Scoed brings up a valid point, hookers can't have it both ways. You don't want to be prosecuted for making a living with your pussy, but you want even less regulation than a massage therapist or even a guy that cuts lawns for a living.

I am not bitching about equal rights or being arrested. I know what I do is illegal and ACCEPT the risk that comes with it. I never asked for it to be both ways, because I would never work as a provider if it were legal. Sorry, not one of those activists. This is not my career. I am one of those providers who would call the fkin cops if a guy raped or assaulted me. You can bet your ass on that. I've never heard of a case where an escort was charged with solicitation when she agreed to testify against someone for a bigger crime...not one. It's called immunity, and it happens every day.Too many providers are scared shitless that the cops won't help, when that is simply not true. They won't much care if you are ripped off, but they do care about getting rapists and murderers off the streets!

-- Modified on 5/24/2013 2:43:59 PM

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There are countless times where a hooker is too terrified to call the police when a crime has been committed against her, similar to what an illegal alien goes through. You are correct that in the matter of a serious crime such as rape or assault very few cops are not going to turn a blind eye to what the victim does for a living, but many young women are too scared none the less.

She does taste good...if I recall properly.

That is the only thing  many businesses have in common is " The exchange of money for a service."  Fact is that very thing is what makes most businesses legalized and not decriminalized. I agree the government has no business in telling you  what to do with your vagina, but hooking is more than sex and you know it.

Not going to happen in either of our life time.

Actually my business is taxed, I pay taxes on my payroll, I am licensed in both chemical application, and whore-d-culture.  

I realize that I am not the norm in my industry, as most operate their lawncare business without everything I go through. Those people are also alcoholics, or crack heads that can't hold any other job.

Being the lawnboy has it's perks, and there are similarities in both industries. Both accept cash, both will barter, but one get laid more than the other. On occasion I'm the pony that is ridden bwahaha.

MM

Tax the pussy.

Porn - paying an "actor or actress" to be filmed having sex so it can be shown for someone's perverted pleasure, is legal. Two consenting adults having sex behind closed doors, and one giving a "gift" to the other, is not. Society's values are screwed up.
Well said, London

-- Modified on 5/24/2013 10:50:37 PM

...on any topic like this one:  Prostitution, drug legalization, forms of gambling that have previously been "illegal" in any given jurisdiction, etc.

Y'know, you're like 14 years old, you get turned on to Ayn Rand or something, and you declare yourself to be a "libertarian".  You start telling all your friends how great it would be if all these "black market"-type goods and service were brought out into the open--"legalize it, regulate it, and tax the s--- out of it!  People are going to do it anyway--this way, it'll be safer, and it'll provide revenue to the government".  Wow, it all sounds wonderful.  The truth is, Yeah, I'd probably take that deal in a heartbeat myself--if my only alternative were the "system" as it exists now.  However, if you step back and think about it, you're winning a battle and losing the war.

Drugs, prostitution, gambling, etc, are all activities which people ought to be allowed to engage in, simply because it is their right to do so (y'know, "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights.."; or if you don't believe in a Creator, that these rights come from our humanity).

As soon as you buy into that "legalize it, regulate it, and tax the s--- out of it" line of thinking, you've already conceded that you DO NOT have the right to freely associate and engage in commerce with others, or ingest whatever you like, etc.  You've affirmed the right of a government to grant you those rights; and if the government can grant you those rights, they can take them away just as easily.

There ain't nothing in the US Constitution that says I can't engage in any of these "sinful" activities--and no truly enlightened citizenry should allow laws to be passed restricting those activities.

Health checks for providers?  Sure.  Private companies provide health checks, providers who have seals of approval from the most highly regarded health check companies command the highest rates--as well they should.  "Pimps" as such would be gone--providers might choose to retain some kind of security--but again, all private agreements between consenting individuals.  No need for government involvement--unless someone breaches contract or uses force to compel another to do something against his/her will.

ok, I'm done. end rant...

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In order for us to pay for those mandatory health checks, licenses, etc.etc. Interesting if hookers unionized and set standards for the work place that did not benefit the client but because they now have a certain level of protection, turn the tables a little.

Imagine if they were allowed to do what South West airlines does and charge double for a obese client and get away with it?

Decriminalization is one thing but legalization, no, I would not be doing this either.

Here in Massachusetts, the citizenry in their wisdom just passed a medical marijaunna bill.  So, we've entered a golden age, right?

Wrong.

The government just set up their guidelines for how this is to be conducted.  (NOT making any of this shit up, by the way, it is in this AM noosepaper!)

Each vendor has to pay $50,000 year in administratvie costs to be able to sell.

Each patient (!) has to pay $500 year to be a customer.

They claim these are revenue neutral and just needed to regulate the industry.

Really?  Then tell me why I can have a prescription written by my doctor for opiods and not have to pay these fees?

This is just the govenment ripping people off, and nothing else.

I'm not even getting into all the other bureacratic BS in the rules that invade people's privacy and are just harrassment.

The same damn BS will come about if the hobby is ever legalized.

Just leave us the fuck alone and let us do what we do without busting us.  If it works for Tupperware, it will work for us too.

Our society needs an overhaul.

Can you imagine what an hour would cost given all the fees that we ladies would be subject too, not unlike the med M scenario you just posted.

super pricey and low-end service (excepting the spouse of a certain TER member on here, of course)

It's not something I'd look forward to.

The cost structure would drive independents out of business, and the whole sheebang would go corporate.  Yuck!

You are free to set your price point where ever you like, but we are free to say "yay or nay" and good luck with unionizing, prostitution is legal in most of the non Muslim world and seems to be doing just fine.

BTW you are free to charge double for an obese client right now if you choose to, go right ahead if you think you can guys to see you at double whatever your rate is.

The business would simply go underground, just like it is today. Only instead LE wasting resources and neglecting "real crime" you might be subject to a ticket for operating without a license, still a huge improvement from what we have today.

Why legalise. Tust make prostiution not illegal, no need for a raft of legislation. Keep it simple.