For me to make claim that providers can't relinquish this endeavor(starting to sound like duplicipuss lol)and have loving, traditional relationships would cause me serious pain within my own home lmao.

My wife enjoys(used loosely here)coming on the boards to share interaction with those whom have shared an interest in her/I/us, BUT she doesn't miss the providing lifestyle one-bit. She did it out of necessity for a short while until she and i became exclussive and i carried her(monetarily)to her goal.

Keep in mind "Reality" is a relative term. Receiving money for sex is some womens reality

She worships the ground i walk-on lol

One is the obvious, you fuck guys for money.

The other should be just as obvious, "I am a pig that pays women to fuck me"

Many guys are every bit as embarrassed that they pay to play as they appear to look down on you for what you do for a living. How many times have you heard guys saying that they would NEVER admit to a civvie woman that they had ever paid for sex, What bigger reminder that they "paid for it" than to end up in a relationship with the very woman they used to pay.

Personally, I don't have a problem with it. In fact my current GF and I met exactly that way. I don't hold it against her, and except for the fact that she knows what a pig I am, it doesn't seem to bother her either.

Now as for being "jaded" that is a completely different, although completely valid subject. It's almost impossible to fuck thousands of different guys (or girls) without becoming a least slightly jaded. I have fucked at least a couple of thousand different women over my lifetime and I make no secret of the fact that I am "damaged goods", does this mean I can't have a "normal" relationship? I certainly hope not.

I will say that the longer a woman (or a man) stays in this lifestyle, the longer this becomes reality and the so called "real world" becomes the fantasy world. Just saying....... lol

now I bet you thought I was going to be a rude, obnoxious asshole towards you and your question, didn't you? Surprise, and merry christmas. lol

(And yes, I know that statement is ironically a generalization too.)

I hope neither person was trying to be intentionally hurtfull, but I can see how you would feel it was.

I just wish people would be kind and loving to each other no matter what kind of relationship they are having with one another.

I am responsible for my own actions, and I won't be responisble for the actions of anyone else. former love notwithstanding.

I don't wish any of my former loves any ill will, but I don't feel the slightest bit of responsibilty towards them.

Fantasizing about someone "coming to their senses" is not only a waste of time and energy, but extremely self destructive. Don't give anyone that kind of power over you.

but I think we will finish in a two way tie for last place, even in a two man race.

Even I haven't had enough to drink to believe that two nice posts are enough to counterbalance a year of "go fuck yourselves" lol

Maybe I can get Deb4512 to run my campaign for me? That is, if she hasn't hung herself yet. lmao.

Or I guess we could always drop nicky off in Nogales on our way to South America, the operative word being "drop" I see no reason to land the plane to drop him off, do you? lmao

Happy landings Nicky, err I mean happy endings. lol

Dear Gambler:
I was wondering since you are in a relationship with someone who worked in this trade and understands this world that we would be unique in terms of our psychological makeup and what we would tolerate? Also during what part of a person's interaction in this world do the lines of fantasy and reality become blurred? Finally, how are woman from the hobby different with respect to their values and mores than civilian woman? Thank you for your candor and honesty sir.

"I knew I should have never dated a client!"  

When I told her that how we met had nothing to do with our dating relationship, and in fact, we'd successfully dated for longer than many people are married, she just threw it back in my face that she should have had her head examined for ever dating a client, and what a mistake it was etc.

For six years this was never an issue, even though she continued to work as a provider.  I never once made it an issue that she was still working, and simply used the time by myself to do my own thing.  So I couldn't have been more shocked to have such a meaningless and hurtful excuse thrown in my face for why she was breaking up with me.

So my point is, it's just as wrong for a guy to say that to a woman as vice versa.  Who cares how you met?  People are still people and you either want them in your life or you don't.  IMO, it's really a cheap shot, whether intended that way or not, to tell a woman "I wish I'd met you another way."

but are no more or no less likely to be fucked up in other ways, just like "regular" women. Go figure lol

Twice in the last few weeks I have had.. two differnt people state to me or ask.

A. I wish I had meet you another way..? ( we do not see each other anymore and have not in over a year but have reconnected as friends.. and only friends) this way his statement to me after dinner.  

B. Can a provider actually leave the business and not look back and be able to love? Not said about me but about another provider.

Both of which. I found to be insulting and hurtful.. It's been a tough week and I am sensitive I am sure.

My question is this?

Do you gentlemen really believe that a provider is not able to love and care in a tradional way? Do you really think that we did not have NON provider lives before and are not able to live in a world of reality?

Many have retired from the business...  a lot "work their way through school"...  then retire & move on in their lives.  Some even meet their life-mate in the business / hobby.  
I think many men find they have feelings for the wonderful ladies...  I know I do with those Favorite ladies I return to.  Had we met at a different time in our lives...  might we have become a couple?  Maybe so.  
The not looking back is hard but honestly that is about the PARTNER being willing to accept the lady as she is.  
During my life time I have loved several women.  We have an infinate capability to love.  I would not find it at all hard to believe that a lady could love...  after providing...  

The media protrays providers as abused, trafficed & damaged good.  Perhaps this is your clients realizing that YOU do not fit that propoganda steriotype.
H

where there is love, there is hope and where there is hope, there are possibilities.  Check out the song by Lykke Li called "possibilities"  and enjoy!  You will know true love when you see and experience it.

I'm probably going to contradict everything I wrote in the link below, but mean no malice towards your already crappy week.  Here's the thing...a lady goes into the business for a reason and only she can know what it is.  In many cases, it's for the "easy money".  I've talked to providers and strippers alike that get jaded and can't help but look at guys as a means to an end.  Part of that game entails telling a guy what he wants to hear and spreading for him when he's in the mood.  So, if I'm gonna chuck it all in and play the game for keeps with "you", I need to get past the question in my head that when you tell me that I'm special, it's not a game you're playing to get into my wallet.  Let's face it that the best providers are the ones that are the best at convincing us that we're special.  That's the central focus behind all the idiots with the "she only does BBFS for me" ideas.  It's a given that guys are stupid.  It's a genetic flaw and there's no fix for it.  We became conditioned as a result to not trust women.

If it helps any, I've had providers tell me that they wished we met another way too.  Go figure, lol.

The beautiful thing about providers is their capacity for love. I believe that providers would actually make better lovers because of a deeper understanding of human nature. And most have strong character because they have had to take care of themselves. So to all providers, I hope you find love when you retire.

"love and Caring in the traditional way" is not working for most. so I take objection to the "traditional" way, but I believe that with your knowledge and human insight it will be the right way and the way it was meant to be!

thought that maybe my misery being worse than yours might make you feel better.  since i am a people pleaser, this was my try for today.  i have never had a friend, would be ecstatic if someone said "i wish we met another way..."  my children even learned early that i would pay them to like me, now they shake me down as i am waking up in the morning.  where is the rope?

I fell in love with one lady we were together for a year and a half then she started to be a provider and it went to her head. I stood by her but the more she got drawn into the fanticy world and the money we parted. I hope that one day she will come back when she realizes what she lost.
Once you have loved you become responsible for that you have loved.

Damn I'm glad you live so far away, cause based on my two previous failed marriages the only sane choice for me to make (after never marrying again) would be to marry a provider.  She'd have to be "hobbyist pig" like you, and believe me you'd get plenty of obnoxious humor from me.  It's pretty much the only kind I've got.

Keep this up and someone might start thinking you're human.  Either that, or someone's kidnapped the real Gambler and is holding him for ransom somewhere.  So just tell me where all the money is and I'll pay off the kidnappers.  PM me.  You said you trusted me, remember?

...said it very well. It would take time for a provider to show the guy that she wasn't just doing for him what she did for all the others which was be convincing in her providing a fantasy. I have no doubt that providers are real people and can love and have a life. The situation of having that love and life with a man that met her as a provider or simply knew about her providing would take a lot of time and work.
To specifically answer the 2 questions you posed at the end of your post:
Some do really believe you can't and or don't. Some believe you can and do. Some would have to learn the answer for themselves as they go through the experience. That is pretty much the answer to any question like yours. Everyone is different and you never know what you'll get.

I know this goes the other way too. A very close friend (a stripper, later a provider) told me in a conversation that she and I could never have a relationship beyond friends because she knew about my frequenting strip clubs and seeing escorts. For her the wondering if I would ever go back to it was something she wouldn't be able to deal with. Now she and I wouldn't have been able to have a relationship anyway (for reasons that don't matter here) she was simply answering a question I posed as we discussed girlfriends, boyfriends and relationships.

Gambler & I are competing for nice TER mod of 2011.  First place is unlimited use of the TER jet for all of February, along with a gross of condoms and "a few hookers".  It's the company's way of keeping us in line.  Sneaky little buggers, don'tcha think?

you had a life before you done  this and you can have one now i know a lot of ladies that do this work and i i know they have a good life  for me i just fell in love with one of you and i just glad i get to see her every chance i can and she know who it is too but i love all the ladies i see

A bigger pair of shit-birds does not exist at TER.  Congratulations, you get your favorite prize: free use of the TER zeppelin and an all expenses-paid trip to Nogales where you will again perform in the Donkey Show.  As usual, you will be catching.
Now FYATWYRIO!

the second question is humbug. No one has ever defined love, many have tried and failed miserably. Granted, there are many stereo typical explanations and if followed leads to a miserable life.

So, my advise to you “ live happy sweet soul”.

Extremely Self-Distructive,
don't give anyone that power over you.
Jotting that one down, normally i would have to pay for that advice.
Seriously,,very good advice!

I may reply to the original post, but to I am replying in regards to the definition of love.

M. Scott Peck gave defining love a shot as: "The will to extend one's self for the purpose of nurturing one's own or another's spiritual growth"

there are some lengths to which I will not go.  However......

bet seriously, waiting for someone to "come to their senses, and come back to you" is fine in a circa 1950's movie, in the real world, it usually means a wasted life, full of longing and misery.

Like LP said, I am going for the title of "nice mod of 2011" with only LP as my competition, I should be a shoe in. lol

"Women are women, Sexual providers former or current are less likely to have sexual hang ups
Posted by GaGamblerssmarterbrother, 12/20/2011 10:41:32 AM
but are no more or no less likely to be fucked up in other ways, just like "regular" women. Go figure lol "

Source?

as some have NO interest in getting to know any provider for more than an hour of play and move on to the next gal.  That fella can't possibly know anything about the gal's life outside of the biz...and frankly shouldn't.

But many guys have seen the gals for extended periods and learned that some are Mothers, Sisters, Aunts, Grandmothers and so on.  And when you get to know anyone in those venues, you see someone other than "Susie Stage Name".  You learn that she has ambitions, faults and all those other attributes that make people...human!

So if you're asking this "gentleman" if I think you ladies are able to "live in a world of reality", my answer is YES.  But just like anyone else out there, our realities may NOT be the same.  But it doesn't make it any less real.

First question/answer….Yes, I think a provider can care and love in a traditional way.
 
Second question/answer…. Yes, I do believe you have lives before, during and after a life as a provider.
 
However a question for any provider is:  what are you bring into this; how are you conducting yourself during; and what are you taking away from this.  Time and experience has an impact on all of us, no matter what we do or don’t do with our lives.  Only you can decide where you are going and how you are going to get there….and once there is it really where you want to be.
 
Regarding the first statement (A), it may not have as much to do about you as you think.  He may have made some choices that make him believe he never had shot.  Or went down a path and lost time that he will never get back.  I once made a statement somewhat similar to a exotic dancer I knew and still stay in touch with.  The statement had nothing to do with her, but a situation in my personal life.  I didn’t realize at first, but I think she misunderstood me.  Went to correct the next night but she steered away from the topic….went to write her about it, but never sent it….
 
Regarding the second statement (B), once again I don’t think it was intended to insult you.  Personally I have often wondered what happens to some of the providers…My ex-ATF is an absolute sweetheart, now making big $$$, well reviewed, fancy website and touring, however I have noticed a lot of changes.  Which is to be expected when seeing several guys a week and then reading in graphic detail about their time together, even if most or part of it is fiction?  Also her personal goals seem to have changed…going from surviving on her own and going to college….to Full Time Touring escort with a fancy car and vacations.  I sincerely hope she achieves what she wants, but will reality of the path and destination match her expectations….only she will know.
 
One of the other guys once made a comment about one of my posts, which is very true.  In referring to men and women, he said something along the lines that “we make speak the same language but that doesn’t mean we understand each other.”  Truer words have been spoken about communication between men and women.    Hope your week and holiday improves…..Take care!

Do you ever come to NY?  If/when you do, get in touch.

I could see myself having a longterm relationship with if they wanted. Does it matter 'how' we met? I know she's a hooker, and I'm a john. Does either or make the other any better or worse? I say no.

Look. I know how I can be on here. It's mostly because of my dry or crass sense of humor. People that truly know me, here or civvie, don't always appreciate it but accept it to a degree. I expect them to tell me when I crossed a boundary in hopes I don't do it again. That's assuming I give a fuck what they have to say and how I feel about them, before I get posts from pussies and other assorted whiners.

If there was a lady here, and we truly enjoyed each other, and not just in the sack, thought she'd like to have more than a 'paid' relationship because of feelings that transpired, we could give it a shot or two, or three. You never know unless you try.

To put someone in that place, like some other guys and ladies have stated, that the way we met would basically doom it from the start I believe is horseshit. OSP is a good example. So is scoed. Granted, it's not perfect, but have you ever met anyone that was? I haven't. Actually, I have more sympathy for their wives than I do them, lol!

Jessica, I like you. I dig your posts. You sound like you know what you want and how to get it. But you're gonna be weak, like now, and there's nothing wrong with that. We're ALL weak, from time to time. Every single one of us.

If 'I' was you, I wouldn't put too much stock into what those clowns told you. If you have a client you especially dig, and maybe would like to have a more meaningful relationship with, tell him. What's the worst he could say? No, right? Maybe he thinks the same but is too chickenshit to say so.

Ohh, and as far as Julia's deal. If you still want to fuck other guys, and your man can continue to get his pee-pee wet with strange? I have statement for that, too....

As long as you're careful, and come home safe, who the hell would I be to tell you what to do?

If I got a call from my lady this guy did this to her, yeah, he has a real problem.

Hope she won't mind conjugal visits however long my term is. Assuming I get caught...  

"Do you gentlemen really believe that a provider is not able to love and care in a tradional way?"

Of course they can.

I know this to be true as I have lived it. Anyone who would suggest otherwise risks really pissing me off. True my wife and I do not have a traditional lifestyle, but we have in the past. What is more important though is if someone can truly and fully love and care for someone. I know my wife truly loves and cares for me.

Only someone capable of true real love would have stood by me during the darkest part of my life. Only someone truly caring would put her life on hold to care for a man that has not always been the best husband. My wife is a provider and has done both. I know without a doubt she loves me, even at times that I didn't care for myself.

Providers are people. People are capable of loving and caring in a traditional way. Providers are capable of loving and caring in a traditional way. To suggest otherwise is to suggest providers are not like other people, which is not true. Everyone that is loving and caring deserves to be loved and cared for, provider included for many I know are loving and caring women. I love one with all my heart, and she in turn loves me.

"Can a provider actually leave the business and not look back and be able to love?"

I answered about love already. Providers are clearly able to love.

While my wife has not left this business behind for good, I know of others that have. I believe people can change anything about themselves. Providing becomes more then just a job, it can become a lifestyle. Changing ones lifestyle can be hard, but it can be done. The question is does the lady want to change her life style.

Thing is you have to ask that of any woman/man as to be a good wife/husband you must change your lifestyle as the lifestyle of being single is not conducive to a happy marriage. When you are single you put your needs first, not so if your doing your part in a marriage. A traditional relationship already requires a change in lifestyle, I see no reasons a provider would have a harder time of it than a non provider.

"Do you really think that we did not have NON provider lives before and are not able to live in a world of reality?"

I think people are able to do anything they truly want to do. I think no one is born a "provider" so of course providers lived life as a "non-provider" before they became providers. I also think "reality" is relative and everyone lives in their own reality that they make for themselves.

Because I've told all my friends if I ever say I'm getting married again they are to shoot me.

Re: I'm not talkin' if you're not talkin'!

Like my most recent ex said: "For better or for worse but not for lunch."  Do you really cook?  Aw, fuck, no way am I moving to NC!  When can I expect a conjugal visit to NY?  Don't tease me.

Providers I know are no more, or less, crazy as civvie women I know.

It's an estrogen thing. Their vocation has nothing to do with the matter.

My uncle told me this a while back. 'Men and women are just wired differently.'

He's a contractor, and I worked for him for a while a long time ago. The patriarc on my mother's side of the family, being the only surviving son out of 5 boys and the fact I'm his favorite nephew doesn't hurt my feelings, lol!

Dude, I don't know what your fucking problem is and to tell the truth I don't care.

You got problems. And you venting on everybody else, well, there were a few that went down that road. I'll just say, they're not here anymore for a reason.

I'll admit, I'm not always a fucking ray of sunshine. Who is? But I'm not always an asshole.

People get sick of your shit real quick when you make it certain it's you against the world. Know what I mean?

Lighten up, man. You might actually have some fun here and not at anyone else's expense....

Oh, I see, your Uncle said so. Well now, case closed - who could argue with that? LOL

How did you manage to be so restrained in that reply to him? Wow. I try to be a nice guy here. Don't usually get involved in the train wreck posts (unless it's fun). Don't usually attack anyone. (unless they really deserve it) But this aggie guy has been bugging the shit out of me and I was about ready to tear him a new asshole! He has been here for less than a month. Just about everyone of his posts are negative, most of them attacking someone. Many aimed at GG, but he has also attacked many others. The normally mild mannered perfectstorm was about to go apeshit on him, and then I read this post to him from you. Wow! I don't know how you exercised such restraint! You must really be the kinder gentler MP67, or you are really in the Christmas spirit. I'm impressed. I mean all of this in a good way. Reading your post has calmed me down
aloha bro.

I suspect most of us just wish we'd had the chance to find someone as sexually adventurous when we were younger - I know that if I'd met my ATF when I was single, I'd have wanted to marry her - and often I think that if I outlive my spouse, I'll find my ATF in her old age and if she's not married, seek a serious relationship just because I enjoy being with her so much.  

Having been a hobbyist for a while, I often wonder whether  women i meet in business and social settings were providers at a younger stage of their lives - I'm sure some were.