She may be using a phone call to prove you are actually there. Emails can be scheduled to make it appear so. Also,
I don't believe phone calls are recorded unless there's been a court ordered wire tap. Emails never die even after being "deleted" and could be recovered. In that case the best bet is for both parties to use an email service with end-to-end encryption like Proton Mail.
I sent an appointment request to a provider through P411. She responded and the arrangements were handled through Email after the p411 request. My p411 contact preference is email. All was set for the meeting today. My second phone has an issue that I don't have time to deal with today. The provider said she would email me the directions later today, and asked that I call her when I arrived. I responded, explaining the phone situation asking if I could email her when i arrived. She said "no only a phone call". I cannot have any unknown or unusual numbers on this phone record, i explained that to her and offered to delete the entire email string in front of her if it made her feel more comfortable. She still refused and her last words were "No, stay safe". I'm assuming the appointment is canceled by her. Cell phone records are kept by the large carrriers for a long time and I really have an issue with this particular phone line. To me, email is the safest and most discreet communication we have. I'm wondering if anyone has any idea why she insisted on a phone call.
She may be using a phone call to prove you are actually there. Emails can be scheduled to make it appear so. Also,
I don't believe phone calls are recorded unless there's been a court ordered wire tap. Emails never die even after being "deleted" and could be recovered. In that case the best bet is for both parties to use an email service with end-to-end encryption like Proton Mail.
I don't know all the details here. Is the final phone call to get the appt #, or directions from parking to her room? If that is true, then she doesn't want that last bit of info documented in text/email.
But the bottom line is, those are her rules. You don't need to understand her reasons, only follow her process. It doesn't sound like she berated you for not following the rules, she just wasn't going to alter her process. Respect that.
Sorry things didn't work out for y'all to meet. That's not a protocol I'd personally enforce. Though I have heard of it a time or two. It's possible she uses a private house or apartment to host rather than hotels. And she might be especially vigilant if she hosts in her actual home.
She might have an assistant or booker that manages her email. I know some providers hire someone so they do not have to deal with the email. Not until after screening, deposit if required, etc... do they get involved. Often, the phone communication starts the day of the appointment. One possibility is that her phone is the only way to directly communicate with her, and not involve an assistant or booker to play 3rd party at that point.
Another possibility is the phone number you provided was used for screening. Absence of that number, and no other number in its place, makes any screening tied to your phone number mute. Many providers make it clear you have to provide a real working number. No app numbers, for example.
That said, her preference is her preference. Just got to chalk it up and move on. You may never really know why. The rest of us can only throw guesses at you. Only she knows why.
You emails may also be kept for a number of years. In both cases it's mostly the routing information and not the content, particularly if you have encryption.
Depending on where you're meeting, sometimes the provider wants to be able to see you before giving the final location information (like room number). She might want something like that so wants to tell you to be standing outside your car or something like that. But just a guess there and I've only had a provider seem to need to want to confirm it was me coming before I was at the door once.
I use protonmail. There is no chance of having my email "saved" by anyone.
That may be changing so you should keep a watchful eye if that is so important for you.
There is also the issue of the message routing though intermediate systems (smtp or simple routers) in the USA that will be logged -- so hope you are also only using their webmail interface rather than some mail client software.
but you can't afford to get a burner phone to use for provider bookings? This doesn't make a whole lot of sense. She is completely justified in requiring a phone call for final instructions. Otherwise, it's an easy NCNS for a prankster and she has wasted her time getting ready for the date.
He said he has a "second phone" that had an issue that he had no time to deal with.
the second phone is in reality, worthless, and perhaps he needs a THIRD phone that is not compromised for use in scheduling provider appointments? Why do customers have to make this so complicated? You just get a phone that NO ONE knows about except you and the ladies you are seeing. Problem solved, or else, there is something else that he is embarrassed to tell us about, so we are giving advice that he asked for without knowing the whole story, which makes the advice worthless. if it's not going to be applicable because of some intervening problem that he has chosen to keep secret from the rest of the facts.
There are no "secret facts" my burner stopped working for an unknown reason and i do not use either my work phone or my personal phone for this activity. I was disappointed that we couldn't resolve the issue. If there were still payphones I guess maybe there wouldn't have been a problem. As it stands no winners here, she's losing a booking and I'm missing out on some fun. It was a first meeting with this provider, maybe if it had been someone I'd seen before there wouldn't have been an issue.
No, I don't agree.
With technology, unexpected glitches can and do happen.
With phones, sometimes it's the service provider's (I.e carrier) fault. Sometimes shit just happens. Some of us are more adept at dealing with these issues but even then there are times when higher level support is needed or we may (as in this case) have no time to troubleshoot the problem.
I used to work in IT and the weirdest, inexplicable things happened sometimes. Sometimes it would resolve itself and sometimes it defied all attempts to troubleshoot.
he was making the appointment, so he had no time to pick up another burner between the day he was making the appointment and the day he wanted the appointment? As soon as she said, "It must be a phone," make the appointment for three days from now and go get another burner phone after work tonight. Problem solved and girl seen. Sticking to the idea that this problem can't be fixed with this provider unless she will accept email only still makes it look like there is missing information. SMH.
Oh, the irony....
I still am shaking my head (big head) that so many hobbyists (or wanna be) are so hung up on a simple thing.
Ok, it sounds like either you have a work phone where you're a govt employee and they monitor your calls OR you have a significant other who has free reign on your phone.
Get a burner phone like so many here do, (~$50?) or get a Google Voice line (it's free). OR nowadays, there are a few apps that offer you a separate line. (Sideline)
You're paying anywhere from $400-1000 to see a gal.......why are people getting cheap with the most basic of items NEEDED to coordinate a meeting?
Once again he said he has a second phone that was having an issue he had no time to resolve.
My hobby phone threw a fit, and at the last minute I had to use my regular phone. Same situation, phone call required upon arrival. I trust the girl, as I'm sort of a regular so not a big deal, but I still try to keep my hobby separate from RL. Obviously.
I had that happen -- my hobby phone went bad as I was on my way to the appointment. I had a workaround that was luckily accepted and saved the session, but it took a while.
.
The OP didn't have that workaround in safe-enough form, so missed his session as I would have without it.
.
Folks berating him for "no burner phone" are failing to read, or failing to think, or just failing. But complaining about the provider's process doesn't get very far either.
Regardless of her reason for a phone call
vs. email, the final meet-up protocol
should've been mutually stated/agreed
upon, prior to the day of the Meet.
I purposely indicate in my "Booking Email",
specific instructions to follow, in the days
prior:
"Confirmation of our Date shall occur
3 times via Emails from Me & a
Final Text Message from You,
Upon Arrival"
√ Final "Confirm Email" from Me, is
2-3 hours prior, with Exact Location
Address & Implicit Instructions upon
Parking
√ "TEXT Me upon Parking for
Gated-Access Code"
Should my Client not agree to my
"Meeting Protocol", discussion & clarification
during the Booking Process should occur,
NOT the minutes prior to meeting.
All " Digital Communication" leaves a trail.
I know a provider who accepts contact by email but at some point she insists on texting. She uses the number to check the prospective client on sites like Mr. Number.
As part of the vetting process, I had to text her a head shot. She told me what hotel to go to. Inside the hotel, I had to text her a photo of the lobby. She told me what floor she was on. When I confirmed I was on that floor, she texted me the room number. I went to the room's door, but the door behind me opened and she invited me in.
I prefer email and I do not share my personal # with everyone who books me.
It has to be used at both ends to achieve full end-to-end encryption, but I've not seen any providers require it, even though it's free.
"Signal is completely free to use, featuring no ads, no affiliate marketers, and no data tracking. It is developed by a 501c3 nonprofit organization and supported by donations and grants, ensuring privacy-focused communication. Users can send texts, make voice/video calls, and share media securely at no cost, though data usage charges from your provider may apply." - Gemini AI
I seem to recall he got into trouble for it, though I don't think any hookers were on the call.
Hegseth accidentally included a reporter's number in his list of Signal recipients, who were not authorized to receive an outline of the attack plan on Yemen. The reporter blew the whistle, but nothing was ever compromised by the Signal app itself.
"It is developed by a 501c3 nonprofit organization and supported by donations and grants, ensuring privacy-focused communication."
Maybe a reason we shouldn't just blindly trust what an AI tells us. Just because it's developed by a 501c nonprofit or supported by donations or grants that in no way insures that it is fully privacy focused. Not saying Signal is a bad tool, don't know myself and I don't use it. But that claim is the same as claims about open-source being more secure because anyone has the ability to check. The problem is that often doesn't occur (everyone thinks someone else will or something like that happens) -- plus it also means that anyone with bad intent can also look for ways in.
Like chains, Signal's security and encryption is going to be a strong as its weakest link -- which might be that it is a 503c non-profit dependent on donations and grants.
The fact that whistleblower Snowden uses Signal is a good enough endorsement for me. Fyi, the Proton Foundation which is in charge of Proton Mail operates as a Swiss non-profit. If you have some better ideas on secure non-military communications, let us know what they are and why.
Use Signal if you want. That was not my point. But DON'T assume it's safe merely because it's from a non-profit or suggest others view it as safe for that reason.
The main reason not to be interested in it is who you can actually contact with it. I don't think that many providers use Signal. But clearly if some are, and that is what they think is the most secure communication then you're going to have to use it to book with them. If you want to know how security it is there are groups and companies that actually specialize in reviewing such tools, and testing them as well. That is what I would rely on to assess its strengths as a secure communication platform.
Code Transparency: Because the client and server code are open-source and available on GitHub, independent security auditors regularly review it.
Limitations: Audits often note that while the encryption is strong, "data at rest" on a lost or stolen phone can still be a risk if the device itself is compromised (e.g., via spyware).
I would note the weakness of the Code Transparency bit though. That actually cuts both ways and to be honest I'm not sure which side actually has the most incentives working. Seems like there may be a stronger tendency for people to free ride off the view that others will also want to have a secure, bug free tool so assume someone is looking closely. But free riding is not nearly as likely for someone looking to exploit any gaps so have the incentive to do that work themself.
-- Modified on 5/1/2026 5:36:11 PM
Use Signal if you want. That was not my point. But DON'T assume it's safe merely because it's from a non-profit or suggest others view it as safe for that reason.
I'm not telling others to do what I do, nor am I saying they should not be using Signal, proton or some other tool. What I have been saying is don't just blindly accept something is secure or that your information is not be logged or stored, or if it is currently not getting logged that it will be that way forever. (And the same holds on the flip side, just because a certain communications path used not be less secure or logged it might also change.)
As for what I do personally, I don't worry about it much. I mostly see providers at some agencies in my area and they all accepts SMS messages. I send those from my real phone. I am not worried about much here as the impact is my legal costs and possible time in jail -- the latter I heavily discount ever happening for me.
W
SMS , unarguably the least secure messaging system on the planet for which your service provider owns and keeps copies of all your transmissions. SMH.
Now, to be fair, he doesn't tell anyone that people should do what he does (ie, SMS and real number)
But every time security or privacy comes up, he wants to talk how (insert method of privacy here) is not full privacy or has security points of failures.
I think most people get that. In this age where many uncles, Sam included, get very upset they can't eavesdrop on folks using encrypted communication or that someone can pilot a drone anonymously using vpn....there will be tons of barriers to full privacy. And we already have no privacy on roads due to corrupt politicians Le and Ai cameras.
But it's like discussing a lock and he keeps saying every single one is faulty and then folks ask, what lock does he use? And he's like, I'm using a piece of hot cheetos for my doors latch or just keep it wide open, fuck it. Lol.
It's like, if you feel like it's so binary that's it's either full privacy or no privacy, then I'm not sure whether a discussion on partial privacy is for him.
Don't get me wrong, it's good to not have illusions of full privacy. But I think most folks on here would not be comfortable usings sms and real numbers. And so they want something a little better for tougher subpoenas and *some* privacy. As we all know, Leo's take path of least resistance.
-- Modified on 5/11/2026 5:43:03 PM
"binary thinking or black-and-white thinking, suggests that absolute perfection is the only standard for success, viewing any error as total failure." - Gemini
.
Personally, I assume state sponsored hackers, e.g. Israel's Mossad and Fancy Bear, will eventually find a way to get into "secure" devices and servers databases. But it's the amateur hackers, scammers, thieves, blackmailers, extortionists, stalkers, anarchists that I want to protect myself from. Just because I can't protect myself from everyone, doesn't mean I can't try to protect myself from most everyone else. Otherwise, it would be like declaring, "Since I can't be assured a seat beat will protect me 100% in a car crash, I'm not going to wear one, since I'm such a great driver." [Note, even using front airbags in combination with seat belts only reduces the risk of dying by about 60%.]
on binary thinking on a number of occasions on the Kgirl board. Do a search and you will see what a broken record he is when it comes to all-or-nothing thinking. I wasted my time and he will eagerly waste yours, too. Lol
Yep, agreed.
Jensen using his real phone to book is exactly how I found out who he is, and it was kinda on accident.
Now he probably doesn't give a shit, but some of us want to protect our identities here.
Last but not least, I'm personally not OK with state sponsored assholes peeking into my shit either.
Also lol at cdl completely not understanding this convo.
Nice try but in no way did I say what you claim. So go back and read my post, link below, and you'll be able to see what I did say.
"Like chains, Signal's security and encryption is going to be a strong as its weakest link -- which might be that it is a 503c non-profit dependent on donations and grants." - 36363jensen
.
"Messaging apps that lack end-to-end encryption (E2EE) by default or are owned by [for profit] companies relying on data monetization—such as Facebook Messenger, Instagram, Discord, and standard SMS/texting—are generally considered the least secure. These platforms can access user messages, often collect large amounts of metadata, and are vulnerable to data hacks, subpoenas, and surveillance." - Gemini AI
It was developed by the same team that created Proton Mail and is a secure video/audio conferencing app that utilizes end-to-end encryption, so their servers have no idea of what your communications are. The Free tier is quite capable.
http://proton.me/meet
Oops, the Free version only allows the creation of five meetings per day. The Professional version allows unlimited meetings, plus it has a lot of other nice features.
http://proton.me/meet/pricing
Ok, I very much so prefer Signal for all of my direct client communication after they've filled out the booking form. And I'm game to offer context because Signal is pretty legit.
The nonprofit is slightly irrelevant to how Signal itself actually works. What is relevant is that the encryption keys live on your actual device and not on Signal's servers. That means even if Signal were subpoenaed, they basically have almost nothing to hand over. Open source and independently audited basically means that no one party/researcher/company has a bigger financial interest in it than the other. That's actually a good thing. Also, WhatsApp, Google Messages, etc have usually piggybacked off Signal so that says something.
Then there are other features that are very client friendly like disappearing messages that auto delete on both ends after a specific time frame. That's something email cannot do reliable. Then there's sealed sender which hides sender data but the metadata of who is messaging whom. You can block screenshots. You can prevent the app from appearing in your recent apps. I require pin authentication to open mine. You can send voice notes and makes calls/video calls, and have them NOT show up in your actual call log. Oh! and you can hide notifications. I just really like it.
With respect to the Secretary of War... Defense... or whatever he wants to be called, Signal worked perfectly. Nothing Signal did was incorrect. He added the wrong person to the group chat. That's 100% human error. How he wasn't fired is beyond me.
For what it's worth, most of my clients who have used it still use it.
I installed it and tried it. Needing to use my real phone number for communications is a NO for me so I wouldn't use it for making business arrangements.
But ... why would you choose your real phone number, rather than your hobby phone number, in Signal?
Wouldn't work.
Why wouldn't you use a burner phone number?
App doesn't work unless it's a legit phone. I don't have a separate physical phone.
*takes a very deep inhale, rubs temples, softly chuckles*
Okay... okay. In about 15 minutes, I will find this somewhat adorable in a weird, internet way. But for now, I need everyone to gather around for a moment because we are going to take a little field trip into Signal's settings together and I promise it's going to be okay.
Yes, Signal requires a real carrier number to register, and I have it on my work phone and my personal phone. So, no you cannot use your Google Voice burner, not your Onvoy VOIP number... you need a real one.
BUT... and this is a big but, once you're in, click the photo/name icon badge in upper left corner → click Settings → Privacy (padlock) → Phone Number.
You'll be presented with two questions.
1. "Who can see my number?" Select: Nobody.
2. "Who can find me by my number?" Select: Nobody.
3. Then click back, scroll up to your profile and create a username
VOILA!
As a note, just because a provider uses Signal doesn't mean you're off the hook for providing a phone number during screening. You probably still are on the hook. Signal is just a more secure way to communicate once that part is handled. Personally, I still require a phone number for screening but I prefer to handle comms via Signal or whichever method the client prefers. But especially via Signal if they prefer text.
You know how we all tell people to do their research before seeing a provider? Turns out Signal has a website too. Who knew. 😉😅
-- Modified on 5/2/2026 9:20:35 AM
Thanks. It wasn't obvious when I was poking around the settings and I've never been asked to use it so I never devoted much time to exploring.
So to initiate a conversation do you need the other party's number or is the name enough?
Yes... when you go to compose a message on Signal (upper right hand corner), you can look people up via
1. Find by username
2. Find by phone number
I encourage anyone here to spend some time perusing the settings on the Signal app, including the privacy settings, and visiting Signal's website.
-- Modified on 5/2/2026 3:52:15 PM
I got my answer in the first two or three replys. This unending grinding about signal is not what this was about. a provider decided to not take a two hour date because I couldn't text or call from my phone. I offered a secure email alternative and it wasn't accepted. she lost a two hour booking i lost a good night of fun no winners here. Please let this end, idk about signal or anything else, my burner got destroyed and my occupation would not allow me to have an unusual number appear on my call list. sorry but thats the way big brother runs the show. It was a one time thing and today it wouldn't happen. My burner has been replaced and life is good. no need for signal or anything else. I just wanted to understand why a secure encrypted email would not do. I have my answer. Thank you.
The follow up discussion concerning Signal and Proton Mail was for the benefit of everyone in the community, not just to you.
We all try and help each other out here, and if there is a method to keep our communications more private, why shouldnt we discuss it? That's just the way these threads evolve sometimes. Its all good!
This is so much better than what's app! I'm sold!
I've often wondered if it's due to some coming to TER from other boards that are more forum-based -- where the thread is started and only that topic allowed. While I know TER has some bits about staying on topic the boards are not really forum-like but more discussion where the flow of the conversation is the driver not the OP subject line. I think of them more as conversations at a party -- they move around a lot.
But it does seem to bother some more than others.
I'm willing to bet that he set up his post with the notify by email or pm with every reply boxes checked, so he is probably inundated by notifications that aren't relevant to him.
Thank you so much.
You never know who else needs help with a resource like being educated on something new
It's too 2026 for me here.
It would’ve been great for someone to start a new post about Signal pros, cons and security, which also would have made it easier for people to find later. In a more heavily moderated space, a mod might have stepped in to recommend that.
Would you like to be a moderator for this forum? I bet TER would accept you.
How about “Ask a Provider” board with Claire and Paige as co-moderators??? That would be pitch perfect!
I burst out laughing..
I swear, he reminded of a mod from back in the day....had to adjust my eyes for a minute.
Thanks for giving a gal a chuckle..
Or does that also go on phone records…
I have had people contact me via phone using a email as well.
My guess is she might not have Internet and therefore needs a phone call and the phone call leaves no written notice that you were there. A phone call only says you called not that anything was said or exchanged. So maybe she thinks that is safer in case of compromise.
…the provider insisted i call her when i arrived ag the cross street and she would verbally tell me the address and buzz me in
i guess it was because she didn’t want a text record of the building number even though she had no idea how good my memory was
whats odd here is that she was ok with enailing you her address so that theory is out
second is maybe she is a NBA provider and wanted to see if you “sounded black” before letting you up but if she is on p411 i highly doubt…she might also wanted to see if you “sounded foreign” cause i al sure many will only see american raised men….
again, pure speculation on my part
I haven’t read the other replies. I just wanna say you do you and only do what makes you feel comfortable. If that doesn’t fly with a provider, there’s plenty others that will be OK with it. I haven’t had a second phone for a couple of years now everything is done by email. Everyone has her comfort zone.. don’t get weak can cause yourself big problems!