I was on intimate terms with my ATF, who has retired.  No dramas, just a fond, poignant farewell.

I saw her exclusively because (a) I wanted to be with someone who cared deeply for me (and I for her!), and (b) No matter how much I cared for her, I began to despise myself for infidelity, and told myself, just her, no one new/no one else.

Like most hobbyists, I'm married.  Like most, my wife's sexual desire is about 20% of what it was years ago.  And like most, my marriage could be better.  But I'm still in it, aren't I?

I haven't seen anyone since, but I find myself thinking about it, visualizing, checking over profiles etc.  I suppose I could just un-bookmark the relevant sites, but I'd still miss this addiction/hobby.

The thrill of someone new is very powerful, as is the sight of someone attractive underneath (or above) you.  And there's never anything like that first kiss, is there?  Believe it or not, I often find someone who is attracted to me as well, which is a very powerful draw.

But sooner or later I have to give up these things and be a better human being.  Not out of guilt, but out of a desire to grow in a positive way.  I'm sure others have struggled with this, does anyone have anything to say, any advice or personal stories to share?

You're going to have to deal with your own sexuality one way or another.  You say your home sex life sucks, but cheating on your wife makes you feel guilty.  I guess you could:

(a) try to improve your home sex life so it doesn't suck anymore,

(b) either learn to cheat without guilt, or cheat anyway but learn to live with the guilt,

(c) try an alternative that gets you off, but doesn't make you feel guilty, like whacking off to porn???,  

(d) forget about sex ---good luck with that one, or

(e) dump your wife and find a willing sex partner ---provider, girlfriend, new wife, whatever.

You may just find that there's no perfect solution to your problem.  Welcome to the club.  You can either accept that and deal with it, or forever beat yourself up over it and rehash these "if only" scenarios in your mind, or in conversations with others.  Sorry if this sounds harsh, but that's the way I see it.

If you want to read posts about ATF's, going exclusive with them and finally losing them, there are plenty of those posts here.  Just do a search on the relevant keywords.

Good luck.  I really do mean that.






-- Modified on 8/9/2003 8:28:23 AM

If this is not healty for you than you should not do it.  It is very healthy for me.  Gives my life that zing it needs.  I am not married so it is a little easier in that way.  But if you have reasons to quit and feel you should quit than walk away and never look back.  And later if things with your SO go to hell, then you tried and the girls will still be here.

Well give the fact that Friday nights are not a great time to start a thread you want advise on (you might want to repost this at some point) and second, the vast majority of people who quit are not on this board (ex-alcoholics don't hang out in bars), here is my .02

You state you were monogamous with your ATF so you managed to resist the thrill of someone new pretty well when you ATF was around (just your wife and your ATF).  You also state you cared deeply for your ATF and viceversa.  Money aside, sounds like you were really having more of an affair with your ATF than hobbying.  Did you ever think about leaving your wife for your ATF?  

If the providers you are looking at now somehow remind you of you ATF or the exact opposite, sounds like you are still recovering from the loss of your ATF.

I don't think there is any way to say you are addicted based on your relationship with your ATF.  Sounds like whatever you want your wife can't provide you but a string of providers isn't going to do it either.  You had one woman in your life you were willing to be faithful to, your ATF.  You happened to have an affair with a provider but if you really and truly only saw one provider you are hardly a hobbyist

So, Divorce your wife, go get your ATF back, marry her, be happy.

Seriously, the retired guys have basic memberships, if any.  Hopefully one of those guys will contact you back channel otherwise the chances of one responding on a weekend are slim.

good luck

I can't tell you what to do about seeing new providers, but I would like to suggest something to you about your wife.

Often, fanning the flames is just a matter of some concentrated attention at the right time and in the right place.  

You might find that spending that hobbying money for a couple of months on your wife will generate a considerable amount of heat.

Wives can be a problem sometimes, but they are also a source of great pleasure when the marriage is good but just not hot.

If this is the case in your situation, try turning on the old-lady for awhile and forget the providers.  They are always going to be there anyway.

Now, if you marriage is simply one of comfort and passion is out of the question, I guess I would find some 18 year old provider and screw her brains out on a continuing basis (hehehe).

Just my opinion and I could be wrong.

Unlike you I am divorced/single. I have an ATF who I care for
deeply, But alas myself and her cannot be together for all of
the reasons that are tipical of these relationships. She lives
in another state, We have been friends now but it is not the
same as what we both were receiving from our relationship and
I can feel her pulling away now because I cannot give to her
what she wants, So here I sit just as you wanting to retire
from this hobby and search for a S.O. where there will be a
better chance for a healthy and solid relationship without all
of the drama. I wish you luck my friend, And my only advice to
you is for you to remember to take care of yourself! Put it into
your mind that first off you owe it to yourself cause no one
can love you as well as you can love yourself. So if that means
you leave your wife, and go it alone then so be it. and if you
were to find the love you need from someone else then that is
even better! Love has many faces to each one of us.

Sounds like you really want to choose (a) try to improve your home sex life so it doesn't suck anymore, on papercup's list of choices.

Take the time you are now spending on the Internet, looking at provider sites, and invest that time in romancing your wife. When you are having sex with your wife, give her as much of yourself as you gave your ATF. You'll get back only what you give. I agree that the thrill of someone new is very powerful, but so is the thrill of sex with someone who truly loves you.

I'm divorced, single, no SO or girlfriend. The hobby at first offered me a great form of revenge toward modern family law, commited relationships and dating in general. No longer was I judged by my per annum income but was on equal par with the wealthy (at least for the hour). I laughed at my married neighbors who came home to find their spouses in "sweats" and in a foul mood. I reveled that I had the final & "only" say in my house.
  Surprise!! The variety and perks offered by the hobby soon gave way when I met my ATF. Now I found myself wanting to see just one person. A person who BTW could never return my feelings. Rather than a fantasy or false persona I now looked for candor and realness when I went to see her. The equality once felt by being able to enjoy her for "X" amount is now a painfull reminder that I can't afford more time with her.
  Many would say I should quit. How do you quit when your dream is almost within your grasp. Beautiful, sexually provocative women wanting to please you. There is no competition, no equal. To turn away from this hobby is like turning away from life itself.
  LiA; I too am questioning this hobby. I don't wish to quit but rather find a ballance. Modern dating and family law has made traditional relationships too risky. The hobby has taken much of the risk and chance out of the quest for sex/companionship but the vulnerabilities of the heart still remain.

  'Cynicalman' says "It's all about the money"  I wish I could prove him wrong or at least win Lotto and prove him right.

I was once in a sexless and loveless marriage, so I got out and
just like freedom posted above, I enbraced my new found freedom!
But now after many years and after expericening many providers,
I found one who I am just smitten with and guess what? NO GO!
Just breaks my heart that this woman is unavailable to me unless
I have money to burn, O well thats life folks. I blame no one
but myself because after all this is a business to them and I
am just another sad story for them to hear. What ever the
Original poster does, I can almost certaintly say that it is
going to be a bit painful for him, Sorry but those are just the
facts of the matter.

Art ... just just hit the nail on the head right there.

What WILL it take to make you a better human being ... and why?  Once you have an answer to those questions, the course of action will make itself clear to you and which ever way you go, it will be guilt free.   This isn't to say that the answers will be easy in coming or the path will be easy to walk, but at least you'll have the confidence that you ARE doing the right thing.

There are hobbyists who do what they do BECAUSE it keeps an otherwise good marriage together.   I've seen that work out.  BUT ... with that said .. many times it's also just another bandaid on a bad situation.   To that, I have the following advice:

How many times have we heard someone say that they "cheat" because their wife "doesn't understand them"?   Frankly, I've found that the reason they cheat is specifically because their wife DOES understand them .. and they need to find people they can still fool.   That may be you ... but again maybe not.   Just an observation you can consider.

Some people cheat because they're looking for happiness that they can't seem to find in their relationship ... and I understand that, too.   But again there is advice that might apply to you .. or maybe not - but it should be said:

I have found .. from many years of hard experience, that happiness is often RESERVED for the people who are willing to MAKE the hard choices and LIVE with the consequences of those choices - not the ones that continually look for work-around solutions.   In my case, I found myself in an unhappy and unproductive marriage of 15 years.   It took me SEVEN YEARS after the realization that I would have to leave... in order to position her, my kids, myself, my finances, etc. so that I could leave in a way that caused the minimum harm to them .. and as you might suspect the solution was to carry all that extra burden myself.   So 22 years IN the marriage .. and I left it 8 years ago ... but that's what it took in order for me JUST to have the right to PURSUE the happiness.  It took a few years after THAT before I started to find it.

I know many people with the same problem ... but are unwilling to make the hard decisions and do what they have to do ... and oddly enough ... they remain unhappy ... hobby like crazy ... and wonder why.

Once you decide what it takes to be a better human being ... what you have to sacrifice to BE one .. take a look at what you stand to gain from being one ... and the course of action will reveal itself.  Trust me.

It seems to me that "how or why you quit" has everything to do with why you hobby.  As a married man I use to assume that most married guys did this because they were Tom Cats and wanted a new pice of ass when ever possible.  But after being on TER for three months and especially reading the responses to my thread on ATF's last week and the above post on this thread I am not so sure.

However, there maybe another perspective on this, and that is who are the people on the TER board.  I have never gone into chat rooms or been on other boards until a few weeks ago when the Supreme Court decision came down on the Sadomy law.  I went into the AOL news chat room and could not believe the level of language, the bitter comments and the extreme lack of intelligence.  Than going on this board it was like going from Jr. High to Graduate School.

Why do I bring this up, God forbid maybe we have a somewhat more intellectual group in these discussion than the average population (Singleton excluded of course). And just maybe all those married horn dogs who act like Tom Cats and could care less about fellings are not spending time on this board.

Shit maybe instead of questioning their every action and feelings
they are just out there getting laid.  Not a bad idea, Mel and Sedona where are you?

my .02  SlowStart

-- Modified on 8/9/2003 5:06:06 PM

Baby, I am here! I have been waiting for you...slow as ever lol (just jokin') (eom)

-- Modified on 8/9/2003 4:49:41 PM

I can't be the only hobbyist out there who finds that an occasional 'fling' makes the sex life heat up at home...can I?  I mean, reading the threads on this one makes me think that there are a lot of hobbyist out there who still believe in fire and brimstone!  Relax.  Be safe.  I find that most times, I can blow far less money on a cute bartendress at a corner restaurant, order wine, have a nice meal....and a lovely conversation to boot.  Then there just are times...well...

If providers are part of the 'oldest profession in the world", then hobbyists have been asking the one of the oldest questions in the world...professional providers offer discretion.   This discretion allows would be wandering husbands to simply get  something fulfilled that is not always there in a marriage or can become dormant...hopefully without blowing up the marriage.  But then again, a glass of wine can ignite the appetite and make the first step towards a lovely evening for some...for others, it can lead to alcoholism.

Seriously thinking about doing that tour to Phoenix

Meowwwwww Trust me, I will be keeping it "wet" all the way to you, baby

Mel

It isn't a matter of guilt, it's more a matter of trying to stop doing something that isn't right.  Yes, I can keep doing it - it's fun, isn't it?  But I'm worried about what it does to me as a person.

My ATF stopped me in my tracks once when she said that her work had really surprised her in one respect:  "these guys aren't sleazebags, they're really, REALLY nice guys.  And yet...they're cheating on their wives."

Wow, you really got exactly what I mean; your post is so profound and articulate, I'm really grateful for your input.

While I understand your actions and your choices in your marriage, you're wise enough to know that we don't make these decisions in a vacuum.  There are considerations of children, extended family, friends, economics, etc etc etc.  So while there are some people who will say love conquers all, and we need to pursue our happiness at all costs, that's idealistic and, unfortunately, not a realistic way to make a decision.

I have to look at the larger picture, and see where the greater happiness lies, which includes the joy and/or suffering that my choices bring to others.  Capisce?

So, for now, I guess I know what the right course of action is.  The tough part is following through with it.  

We'll see how it goes.  Thanks to everyone who contributed.

In almost every case you will notice that people on TER will advice you not to do something you are not comfortable with.  In this case I think for the married guys this subject can be to close to home.  If it hurts don't do it.  Something anyone could tell you.  Get some help for yourself and your family and move on.

I was married once (see previous posts) and engaged in the hobby only before and after, not during.  I don't judge...just what made me comfortable.
I would be difficult to leave your wife for your ATF as the feelings would most likely not be reciprocated.  How many of those posts have we seen?  There are other factors involved too, including the love for your wife (if still there), children, finances etc.

It is not easy to quit once you start.  I am single and currently do not have an SO.  Would I quit if I started dating someone exclusively?  Absolutely.  That's not for everyone though.

My advice...try to work on your marriage.  Get counseling, see if there is anything left.  If so, try again.  If not, move on.  No sense in making yourself unhappy for years to come.

-- Modified on 8/11/2003 8:46:42 AM