The lady had a marveously orgasmic time and fell madly in love with me. Never saw the need for them to post it on the boards. I mean , being the humble type I really don't need that public adoration.

It's about acceptance more than it is about sex.  BBBJCIM, for example, besides feeling damn good physically, is an indication of acceptance - most providers understand this.

Feeling that a provider is attracted to him makes him feel even more accepted.

I am not knocking the idea of paying someone for acceptance - after all, therapists are also paid to be accepting and genuinely non-judgmental.  If anyone here sees a therapist who is judgmental, drop them and get a new therapist!

Many providers are also partly motivated to be in the P4P world because they seek acceptance, along with validation of their sexual worth.

Well, that's my theory. Suppose there could be all sorts of other reasons.

You ASS-U-ME too much.


C'MON MAN(chris berman),that was WAY too easy!!!>LOL

There is fanatasy, and then there is delusion. lol

Where's the line between the two. I suppose, perhaps, the fantasy becomes more and more a delusion, the more one tries to make it a reality. lol

"Many providers are also partly motivated to be in the P4P world because they seek acceptance, along with validation of their sexual worth."

Not even close for me..it's the money. I get all the acceptance and sexual validation in my private life. Thought you might want a truthful answer from a provider..if not, discount my post.

For some hobbyist, and manginas are more susceptible to this than are other hobbyists, the fantasy lasts long after the session. This is when it turns from fatasy to delusion, and can be very unhealthy for both the hobbyist and the lady.

I like to throw ya one down the middle. LOL

Clearly, you are not among the "many".  

I have always appreciated your honesty on this board.  I know it can be difficult at times, but a little reality-grounding can be a good thing for everyone.

-- Modified on 5/25/2010 1:00:59 PM

If I was a totally hot prospect for a young lady, I'd be married to the homecoming queen in my high school, and living happily ever after. BTW, I ran into her three years ago and still smoken hot. But, I'm realistic enough to just partake in mutually beneficial relationships, with hot women, as long as I can afford to; 1 hr, 2 hr. etc., and the fantasy ends as I go out her door.

Some people can't accept the fact that not all providers are "wounded birds" looking for validation or saving. rofl

The thought that a woman could be perfectly normal, yet sleep with men for a living is beyond their comprehension. These are also the guys that exhibit the most self loathing, deep down they are ashamed of what they do, and want the rest of us to be ashamed as well.

To those guys I have this to say

"Tough Fucking Shit!!!"

I am not ashamed in the least that I choose to enjoy the company of "hookers" lol Although I would have troubles being in love with an active provider,just because if I were in love I would not want to share. That said, I think all in all providers have less sexual hangups that most "regular women" and I enjoy that about most of the providers that I call friends.

Funny you should say that. I was just thinking what kind of target had I painted on my forehead after posting this comment.

I really do censor what I say on here because it's not worth my while being 100% honest. It's not my playground and I am actually a visitor, so I play the game, but every now and then I will tell it like it is. I guess it's all in the delivery...right?

I would agree. Providers do have less sexual hangups than most "regular women". This one of the reasons I like the hobby. The tensions are less.

are looking for too much more than the simple pleasure of good sex and a lady's company for a time. They want it to be "more" than that.

They are looking to get other needs met - needs that are not really appropriate to the "hobby" in my view, but to which "GFE" has to an extent evolved to fullfil.

A little "affection" and "ego stroking" are nice with a serving of GFE services. And it is nice for those who like to repeat, to develop a certain comfortability. No doubt.

But guys who are too needy are the issue here. And perhaps to an extent providers who do not have the good judgment to keep the lines clear and the boundaries well marked.

Guys like me who really just want a good shag with as many PYTs as we can rack up are getting a bad name lol....  but *we* are not the ones distorting what the hobby is about and creating confusion here....

show up on my doorstep there wouldn't be a problem.LOL

ouch!!!! just got punched in the arm

It is truly refreshing to hear an honest voice in this tangled web of a forum.  Too many people with their own barely concealed agendas.  Not enough people willing to say what they really think for fear of backlash.

Sure, there are a fair number of guys that will pour out their controversial/flippant/bitter comments (mostly under aliases).  But there are very few providers that will tell it as they see it due to the obvious risk to their business.

I miss the posts of Famkejensen and even the acidic tone of MacDaddy318.  At least they often made me think and, if I wasn't careful, they sometimes actually changed my opinion about something.

If you keep censoring your posts, all we will have left are predictable, boring, politically-correct, business-savvy responses from the female side.  Don't do it!  LOL!

even in regards physical objects, let alone in emotional beings. Meaning, each of us will succeed and fail, at both. That's why a little tolerance and understanding on everyone's part is helpful when we fail, yet still getting needful feedback from others as to how to find it and maintain it.

The client side fault, looking for too much in a P4P situation is well covered above. But it is also only half the story.

Some clients set out to hobby to find "true love" and are certifiably batso as hell. Others may be confused in thinking that "true love" is being offered.

Yes, some clients have inappropriate expectations. So do some providers. Some ladies have clued me in on colleagues who seem to have a need to induce infatuation in their clients. One enlightening conversation with a provider friend was refreshingly straightforward: "I try to get my older, richer clients to fall in love with me a little so it helps out me and my SO".

When the folks involved are relatively smart and honest, P4P can work better (for me anyway) than all this ego stroking illusion.

and i agree.

I hear she is off to a better place.

Would those be Mangina's? I am just taking a guess. What do I know.

I am on "that wall", "you want me on that wall".

it *can* be good for biz, up to a point. Some like to walk a thin line between "inducing infatuation" as you put it, and dealing with gents who become problems w/r/t boundary violations, even stalking

it can also be good for the *provider's* ego. I have met several who down deep seem to have a need of their own to induce an "addictive" response from clients. Sometimes this is a power / control trip, sometimes it is a simple narcissism. I have an opinion as to the psychodynamics but will keep that to myself

some also just do not have the ability to manage boundaries, and are just as swept away by the whole fantasy as are clients. And why not? As I have often said, the hobby is a nice place to visit, but nobody gets to live there. Real life and all lol. It is very attractive for client and provider alike to enjoy a connection that is not conditioned by normative relationship dynamics, and the pressures of real life.

The hobby is a siren call for many, male and female.

on two occasions. I survived, narrowly....  eventually the fantasy meets reality in more ways than one.....  not sure I would be willing to repeat the experiement....

the lasts things i am are predictable, politically correct, boring, or business-savvy, lol. but i do agree that more providers should express their true opinions and feelings here, even if they must do so via an alias, rather than censor themselves for "business" purposes.

in my case i have nothing to lose, i do not wish to market myself here. and even if i did, i would hope that my honesty and forthrightness would serve to weed out the kind of men i have no desire to see anyway.

in response to the OP, i can understand very well why a man would wonder whether or not a provider genuinely liked him. as we hear so often from providers here on the board, for many this is strictly a business, and they work hard to create an illusion...sometimes a dangerous one...providing what for all appearances may be the "ultimate GFE." so a man may wonder, about a provider he genuinely likes...does she really like me too? is this all just an act?

this is why i do NOT create illusions with my clients. i do not provide a fantasy, i provide a very real and very genuine experience of caring and giving. of course, i can only do this because i put in an immense amount of time and effort getting to know potential clients inside and out, determining chemistry, compatibility, and whether or not their needs fit with what i am in this hobby to give. someone looking for nothing more than NSA anonymous sex will never see me within this hobby. that is what swinger's clubs are for, lol. i am in this hobby for what i feel is a higher purpose, and yes it does bring me a great deal of fulfillment when i can see that i have really enriched someone's life.

now some could say that the way i function in this hobby is dangerous, that men would be all too likely to become emotionally carried away...and this has indeed happened with a couple of clients, causing me to have to end the "business" relationship (while maintaining the friendship). but i do try to keep the boundaries intact by making it crystal clear i am very much in love, happily married woman, and of course, with those little green pieces of paper.

I am with you on this. Not ashamed, no guilt just pure pleasure. See all this moralization of the hobby and amateur psych analysis and request for psych analysis for others. Very funny.

best sorted out by the individuals themselves. To the extent that they can communicate clearly with their counterpart and have some self awareness, all is well, and the good times need not be troubled.

But in the end how you and I or any board member "figure" the behavior of others is not as important as keeping our own bearings. It takes some time for a newb to find their niche in the market.

For the client: take a hard look at yourself. Are you really young, hung, well, and well off enough to be that attractive to a woman of experience who can pick and choose without there being an envelope involved? It is a stressful enough job without your making it personal without invitation.

For the provider: is satisfying your ego worth creating the possible drama?

If the questions above make one uncomfortable, perhaps it's time to reflect a bit more.

I understand your very valid points and will only point out that it has and does happen.  Does it mean that all providers are attracted to all hobbyists?  Of course not.  But does it mean that some hobbyists have qualities that make them attractive to some providers? Certainly.

IMHO, an encounter is so much better when there is chemistry of some sort.  Maybe not the physical attraction type, but maybe respect and attitude.

I'm not fooling anyone, especially myself.  I am not a great looking guy, but I think I present a clean, respectful package that makes providers want to see me again. And I'm sure numerous others do as well.

And oh yeah, read the responses below from the providers, I think they may reinforce what I have said.

-- Modified on 5/25/2010 4:43:01 PM

to both my profitability and my survival.

And to complicate that, Uncle Sammy saw fit to extend my usefulness by providing me with a PhD in Psych with a specialty that has some bearing upon such interractions.

It is impossible for me *not* to notice, and on reflection, to analyze.....   and it has stood me in good stead in this milieu on many occasions as well.

That being said, I fully agree that the *onus* has to be on the self. We cannot control any thoughts / attitudes / feelings but our own.

I do wish, however, that more people in this game realized that though feelings are visceral and extremely powerful, they are not "factual" - what we choose to think, the patterns of thought that become habitual, the attitudes we form, are the precursors of our "feelings".

Indulging in "fuzziness" of thought is the slippery slope in this game....

Emotion
------- = Rationalization
Reason

Or, emotion over reason leads to rationalizations, which is where though is manufactured merely to justify one's behavior, motivated by emotion.

I can see what you mean but really, all the bitterness and name calling is out of hand when a provider no less speaks her truth. I can come on here and say a very sanitized version of what I really want to say and not have to read the vile comments from a gentleman with slight woman issues go apoplectic over a few lines on a hooker/john board.

I have thought of posting how I really feel in a question and answer format, but then got real and realized that most of the gents on here could care less what I have to say as long as my rates were fair and I delivered the goods and then left.

Also, I have no illusion about why I am a part-time provider and my motivations and my real feelings about this whole melting pot of people. I just think that the gen pop on here does not want to hear it...so I play the game.

I have a blog where I can sound off to my hearts content and it really is only for me to comment on what I would really like to comment on here in the exact manner and expressive discourse I truly feel. No-one knows where it is, as it's not for the hobbying public to read. It's where I vent and it does make me feel so much better after reading some things on here that get my goat. It is my filter before I post anything on here and it is working very well I might add.

Lilli, you rock...even though we are so very different but with some things, we have a very similar point of view.

I wish Macdaddy was here too...she had a set on her. I really think she was seeing how many sacs she could get in a knot and loved every minute of it. I felt very honored that someone on here thought I was here at one point...made me smile.

Famkejansen was cool too...a little more polite than Macdaddy but no shrinking violet either.

So, sometimes I wish I could just let it fly and in reality I am not afraid of the rectal orifices who would descend on my posts...I can take as much as I can dish.

airing my dirty laundry all over here. lol

Sorry about the smell people.

because it does not place enough emphasis on behavior. Behavior has a major role in programming thought and attitude, which in turn condition behavior - it is a feedback loop.

however the most efficient point in that loop in which to address "psychological" problems is at the point of behavior, learning to choose more appropriate behavior.

spending years debating why we think and feel as we do only serves to create neurotic, self absorbed therapy addicts and buyers of self help books.

nonetheless, in this specific instance, the R-E or sometimes referred to as cognitive school has what I consider to be a correct theoretical construct.

-- Modified on 5/25/2010 5:20:01 PM

A little late to this discussion...but I'm in a field where I see clients once weekly; they pay me by the hour. Each visit is entirely at their discretion. Some connect within our hourly relationship but most don't.  Each gets the same fine service though I enjoy the hour more with some than with others.  However, once they're gone they're gone, for the most part, until the next scheduled hour. I've chatted with some providers about the superficial similarity in our vocations; they laugh---all I have to do is talk and listen.  Much easier than their job.

Now, having met more than 120 providers, about one in 10 make a connection that makes me want to schedule more than once.  Who knows why; I don't ask, just enjoy.  But from my own client experiences, I realize that while we are sometimes very friendly for the hour, and they might be thought about periodically between appointments, there is no longing for the next meeting. I assume this is the case for providers, and it helps me maintain boundaries and maximize enjoyment.

And while there is no harm in discussing generalities and patterns we are on a slippery slope when we apply analysis to individuals without invitation.

I would not want my remarks to be interpreted as applying to any of the ladies in my profile or myself for that matter. Each relationship is different and has its own dynamic.

though I was paid....

In the civilian context however, I agree with your assertion with respect to ethics....

and I am quite aware of how uncomfortable some people are "around" those with certain skill sets.

While we are issuing disclaimers '

I will also state that it should not be inferred that my comments under this OP reference anyone I have reviewed.

I have only reviewed a small percentage of the providers I have met.....

sports psychology, and RET ain't that helpful. I was just responding to your comment regarding acting on emotion.

Feelings are not facts!

There are a whole host of areas where we agree.

I have already said it is for me. I have very particular tastes and rarely do i find myself attracted to clients in that normal everyday physical way.

If I am doing a superb job..does it really matter wyat motivates me? Seriously, some guys think way too much about the ins and outs (no pun intended). If you are having a splendid time and the lady you are with is satisfying your needs...whatever they are, who freaking cares?

having competed at several sports and having been involved in my military career in a milieu that benefited from a similar approach as well.

persons involved in these pursuits tend to substitute "superstition" for proper preparation and conditioning. Sports and NAVSPECWAR are two worlds that prove the maxim that "luck" is what happens when preparation meets opportunity lol

but which when clearly stated and demonstrated, may be useful to those who are habitually captive to feeling states which they do not realize that they themselves generate and ultimately control.

subject of the analysis.....

We do figure each other out a bit. It is only rude to offer that figuring without an opening or an invitation from someone.

BTW... I regard posting as a form of invitation...

So speaking now of "claimers" instead of "disclaimers"... I once was analyszed by a provider not in my profile. She had no skill. Her insight was anti-correlated with reality. She also had much conviction. The results were not pleasant for either of us.

I've reviewed only a little over a third of those I've met.

I think there is a lot of energy wasted in trying to figure out "who is talking about who without naming them" on the board. If the party isn't named, don't assume.

... immunity to "fallen and can't get up" syndrome.

It's my freakin' brain and ultimately it is gonna do what *I* say, dang it!  

(*grin*)

Zeus damn Plato to hell!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Here you've gone and committed the Original Sin that plagues Western Philosophy: postulating an Ego separate from matter.

Your brain does what you tell it. BULL FUCKING SHIT!

Ok. YMMV and differences are OK, yada yada.....

But Mind-Body dualism of the sort implied is TOTALLY fucked, to use a technical logical term.

I admit preferring mapping the brain-ego relation to the substance-function relationship rather than the substance-substance relationship implied by your post.

If I seem grumpy and churlish chalk it up to the fact that I've run out of Remy XO and am making do with "Legendary"
Bowmore tonight.

I'll live



-- Modified on 5/25/2010 10:21:11 PM

insecure.  In most cases I doubt it.  They are "oversecure" or better put, delusional.  Probably had a provider that had fallen all over him, and figures they all do.
I think it's a riot to watch, as they don't seem to notice how transparent they are. Throw in some lively banter from his GF/provider, using an alias, and the entertainment keeps on going!

But hey, it takes all kinds, even the MP67 types who will tell you just how hot they are!  LOL
But I give him credit, at least he strokes his own, and doesn't go on  fishing expeditions looking for the ladies to do it.

So many posts reflect that the ladies really don't like their clients.  That has not been my experience.  If you visit just once, it means little to them.  If you establish yourself with ladies on a repeat and ongoing basis, it may surprise when you discover that they actually like you, and will roll out the red carpet to you.  End of the day, the hobby is based upon trust...

Very generalized, because I know there are exceptions.

First point.

According to MRIs, in males, the portion of the brain dedicated to emotion is about the size of a walnut; and very localized.

A man can either feel intense emotion, OR think. But not both at the same time.

This is why, when a man and woman argue, the man seems so emotionless. He's thinking; so his feelings are blunted.

Women, on the other hand, have emotional activation throughout the brain so they can think and feel emotions fully at the same time.

Point 2.
Emotions are, in many cases, a reflection of our internalized values.

Take, for example, a slide show of how to butcher a chicken. Some people -- those to whom this process promises self-reliance for example -- will find this fascinating. Others will find it revolting.

Same pictures, different emotional reactions based upon the mind's content.

Conclusion.
My emotional content can often be altered to match my desired emotional content through manipulation of the rational content of my mind.

Further, through thinking alone, emotional impacts can be blunted while that process takes place.

Example
Lady X is an absolute dreamgirl. Boy could I ever fall for her in a second. She lays it on thick -- realizing that men are more likely to allow emotions to develop where the men believe them to be reciprocal.

There are many ways to render this moot. I can alter, to some degree, which attributes constitute a dreamgirl for me so she no longer meets the definition. Or, I can choose to disbelieve what she says based, for example, on the existence of an envelope. If I disbelieve what she says, she is no longer a dreamgirl, but a manipulator and my emotional reponse follows suit.

So I am not positing an ego separate from matter. Rather, I am stating that people have a helluva lot more control over their emotions than they think.

In fact, I am pretty certain that techniques such as what I just described are used by some providers in order to avoid attachments.

The trick with these is to adopt reasoning that is not easily undermined but also leads to generally positive conclusions that allow for enjoyment.

It is what it is.  Why go into all the psychological aspects of a experience wanted and provided. Thats why you gentlemen and us ladies are in this world.

Its been around forever, talking it to death is not going to make anyone enjoy the experience more.

My .02

Your points are of course reasonable and sound with regard to psychology. I was doing ontology and epistemology, though.