I really like my job.  I enjoy the different things I get to work on, and it challenges me technically every day.  I've received praise for some of the projects I've done.  Recently, I was asked to do some things "on my own time".  I was annoyed that I was even asked to do that.

It's taken me a while, but I do understand now what ladies have told me before, that the hobby is just a job to them.  And just as I'm paid for my time, and I get annoyed when I'm asked to do things for free (even though I enjoy my job, and often go over because I'm interested), just as these ladies would.

And just like me, they are good at their job.  It doesn't mean they are high volume, or sex crazy, or distant.  Nor does it mean that their job defines them.  It's just a job, like mine.  It allows them to support their family, no different from what I do.

In my years, I've done business with different people.  Some I only talk with to do business, some I've developed relationships with outside of business.  The ones I don't develop relationships,  has no bearing on whether or not they are good at their jobs.

With the ladies, it is no different.  Sometimes friendships are made, and sometimes not.  But when they are, business is still business, like with my job - but that doesn't mean the friendships aren't real.

Seeing it in that perspective now, I would never ask a lady, even a friend, to do anything for free, just as I wouldn't expect my boss or company to do that.  And I'm sure there are some aspects about her job that she likes, and certain ones she doesn't.  But at the end of the day, she has to take care of herself and her family, just as I do.

-YR

while I have always considered that,it apparently hasn't sank into my THICK skull until YOUR re-iteration. Thank you.

pleasure You will endure now because of your new respect level...Your Attitude will determine your altitude...and with your new profounded perspective on this business...I see much Pleasure cumming your way...Bravo

I basically agree, with a certain nuance....

I always compensate a professional, provider or otherwise for professional services. Even if we are friends.

However

I do not consider a provider a "friend" who expects to be compensated for time doing "friend" things, any more than I would expect my doctor or my lawyer, who happen to be my friends, to want to be compensated for spending "friend" time together.

I've met ladies in this biz who offer "friendship" on the clock lol. That's a delusion.

OTOH I am priveleged to have had a few provider friends who were *real* friends, and did not expect to generate income by doing friend things.

However, no matter how much of a friend I might become to a provider, a doctor, a lawyer, etc, I insist on compensation for services rendered within their professional capacity.

The envelope, even between good friends, keeps the lines clear, the boundaries in place. Maintains clarity. I would never want to be in a position of taking advantage of a friendship.

other than when we make a bet and he always wins (I am not good at golf).  As a consultant, I have many social lunches or grab a beer with many of my clients "off the clock".  I like many of them.  I don't bill for that time.  There needs to be a better term for what I call a "hobby friend".

I congratulate you on having been able to make real friends in this GTM.  There are many very special women in this business.  Even some I would want to see only off the clock if I had too choose one or the other.  I can always find a P4P partner somewhere.

This is another one where I agree and disagree.

As a single guy who hobbies a lot, I get to know many providers on a "friend" and "more than friend" basis. I have no problems having sex with a provider off the clock, I don't mind blurring the lines at all. But I will add that I will "NOT" ask for a "freebie", that really is disrespectful IMO.OTOH If two people enjoy each others company and end up in bed together and it is at "her" initiation I think it is absolutely appropriate and I have had it happen on many an ocassion.

I think the key is ones ability to communicate and their ability to tell the difference between "taking advantage" and "more than friends"

and while it is true that for many women sex can be totally casual, I have on a couple of occasions in the past very unintentionally allowed the lines to blur too much, and caused a broken heart. Yeah, you'd have to know me. Rather you'd have to be a female and know me lol.....

I have caught myself in precarious situations after the 'time' was up. A sort of schmooze began that I couldn't tell if it was an invitation to 'extend' or an invitation to 'ok this is my private time now and you are welcome to it'. I don't care for these moments.I don't wish to offend anyone by making an improper assessment. I just scoot out the door as fast as possible.

a friend of mine met a provider in Panama City a year or so ago. She works in Panama, but is Colombiana and lives in Pereira. We took a side trip here from Bogota so he could visit her. If he tried to give her any money I guarantee you she would not only be offended, but she would probably throw the money back at him.

I OTOH, plan on seeing some of her hott amigas while we are here, the thought of me not paying has never entered my mind. Personally I think I am getting the better end of the deal. I get to see many different women while my buddy will just be with one. lol

My point is, the line here is not really very blurry at all. She genuinely likes his company, they are both single, what's the harm?

BTW, this is a very nice city. Colombia is rapidly becoming my favorite country in the world. 4 1/2 flight vs 20+ hrs to anywhere in Asia. lol

And I'll be gone for a while.

so I'll let you have the last word!


Have fun in Columbia. The only action where I'm going is a few Chinese run brothels, that I in good conscience (lol) will not patronize.

Ha' Luego

GTM

I am only here for a couple of more days, then back to business, I am seriously thinking about getting a place in Bogota however, it is a grea city in a great country.

Happy travels

When you find yourself in that situation, obviously it's the lady's call, after all she is the one charging for her time. Just say something to te effect of the fact that your time is up, and you better be going because you didn't bring money for a longer session.

Nine times out of ten, she will sweetly usher you out the door, the other one time out of ten if she really wants you to stay she will make her wishes known.

I do agree that is better to err on the side of not taking advantage, but it would be a shame to miss out on the company of someone who you really click with out of fear of taking advantage.

Even when making the first move towards "off the clock" time together I still make sure it's the lady who is the initiator. I have found myself in that awkward position where I want to ask a lady out on a "real date" The way I have handled it in the past was to let her know that I was interested, but that I realize that dozens of other customers have probably felt the same way. So I offer my phone number along with the invitation and state that if she calls me I know she is interested,and if not I will never bring the subject up again and it would by no means effect our client/provider relationship. I have been at times happily surprised by actually  receiving a phone call.

I'm not sure what difference that makes in the context of this discussion.  Are you insinuating that ladies have orgasms all the time during their "work"?  Some may, but I think you'd be surprised how many don't.  Their "job" is for them to be what you want and need for the time that you've requested.  If they have an orgasm, that's icing on the cake.

I'd compare that to myself getting an award, or recognition from my co-workers.  No, it isn't an orgasm, but it is nice.

feminine side as fast as you found it!  We don't go for that here in the GOP!  You either have a dick or a pussy....assholes don't count!
"I can see everything from the providers' prospective now"!  I totally understand YMMV"!
" I don't like reviews, they are disrespectful"!
Geeze pal, get a grip!  Next you'll be saying that providers should charge you more, because it is so hard to get you off, and you feel guilty about all of the extra work they have to do!

I'll bet if you ask nice, and use your threads and posts as a reference you would be invited to participate on the providers only board!

Now grab that little string, pull the tampon out of your ass, and straighten up!!!

If you can't, then, STFU!

I can't speak for the rest of the ladies on here, but in my personal life, I already HAVE *piles* of very dear friends...!!! Amazing, dynamic, open-minded, funny, and creative people... ALL of them know what I do for work and MANY of them have previously been providers... quite a few of them still actively see people... I am in NO shortage of people with whom to go out to dinner, go for a walk, or talk on the phone etc...

*THIS* is what many clients who want to "be friends" don't UNDERSTAND (or pretend not to..??) ... Not only do I have MANY friends already, but these clients don't seem to "get" what it means to be a "FRIEND"... They basically want all of the BENEFITS, and NONE of the responsibilities!

HERE are some things that my personal life friends have done for  me... I in turn whole heartedly do these things (and more) for them...

- Stay up for hours while they cry and rant on the phone about something that upset them.
- Bring them food when they are sick.
- Carry heavy boxes and furniture when they need help moving.
- Take care of their pets when they are away on a trip.
- Pick them up/drop them off at the train, airport etc..
- Come and rescue them when their car breaks down on the side of the road.
- Help them with home renovation projects- gardening, painting etc..
- And on and on and on...

I would NEVER, EVER ask or expect a CLIENT to do any of these things! That would be COMPLETELY inappropriate!  But, as I said, these ARE things just SOME of the things that I and my *friends* do for eachother... I have some guys that I have seen on sessions off and on for almost 8 YEARS... However, I am warm and playful and affectionate even if have known someone only for 8 *minutes*... I do everything possible to establish a friendly repoire with EVERY, SINGLE person I meet!  

But at the end of the day I view myself and my clients like I view *my* relationship with my THERAPIST... My therapist and I laugh and talk and share a sort of INTIMACY... sometimes she even insists I spend a few minutes over is she has the time and she feels there's an "issue" needs that bit of extra attention..

BUT *she* doesn't call me up when she needs someone to spot her on the ladder to clean out her rain gutters... and *I* don't ask her to clean my cats' litter box while I am out of state...  Nor do I call her up to chit chat while she is watching a movie and cuddling on the couch with her husband... or invite myself over to their house for dinner and romantic walks at the park...!!

I think you get the idea...

Sir yes sir!!!

Sorry, grew up with sisters.  I have a feminine side.  Didn't know it was against the rules to offer my opinion.  I thought that's what boards were for!

..debate!

I LOVE posts longer than mine. Thanks. I don't this conflicts with what GTM

was saying.  It just states why you don't seek friends in this, you have plenty.  I think I and most guys get that.  I was agreeing with him on what dynamics go with friendship.  I agree with your points.  

I think we are all agreeing that friendship may or may not be a possibility between client and provider.  There are certainly some ladies I would do those things for, but I don't expect it.  I am just agreeing that if it does actually exist between people, then the clock should not be applicable in all circumstances -- IF they both want those type of times together and want to be friends.  

And I am never surprised that ladies have a ton of civi friends.  Many are simply wonderful people.