Hi Everyone,

Ive been pretty busy lately and havent been on-line. I miss all the gossip and input......

Anyway, I would very much appreciate the true gentlemen out there to give their input on this one....

Without compromising his privacy, lets say a client I will call Biff asked me AFTER I arrived at his residence if a check would be o.k. as he never made it to the bank. Biff is a regular client and a hell of a nice guy! He has always contributed cash and I never gave it thought. Those of you who are familiar with the desert are aware of the Indian Wells community and know that anyone residing in this neighborhood is more than likely not having a cash flow problem.

I accepted his personal check without hesitation and the next day I went to cash it. Since, I enjoy my privacy, I didn;t deposit it. I went to a check casing store. At the time, I was advised that the check(s) were reported stolen and if the girl hadnt talked to the gentleman herself, she would have called the police and had me arrested. So I leave and call my client. Biff, whats going on?! I say. He explains to me that it was a misunderstanding and he would be happy to replace the check. I return to his office and am greeted by a secretary/pitbull who handed me an envelope and waited for me to return to my car and drive away. I figured it was cash and never gave it a thought. I open the envelope to find ANOTHER check with an apology note. I go to his bank to cash. No funds available, I call the bank 3 or 4 times during the last 3 days. No funds available. This is a substantial amount of $$ and not my regular fee for service. As of this morning, No Funds Available. However, I did get another email from my client explaining that his bank has not posted his deposit, etc., etc.

Biff is an extremely nice person and even gifted a brand new computer to me the same evening he wrote me a dead check. What should I do? Pursue Payment in full? Offer to settle for 1/2 payment, give him the puter back and tell him to SHOW ME THE MONEY!, I need a tactful yet effective way of handling this. HELP!!

Thanks people!

xoxoxoxox
carol

Since Small Claims Court is out of the question, I suggest you chalk this one up to "tuition", and try to learn from it. Life is too short to drive yourself crazy about money.

hello Carol:
That is not just 'living beyind his means'.  That is deliberate theft given by the gyrations he has gone through so far, ain't no accident.  You have the ultimate weapon.  Simply call the Biffmeister and tell him he has 24-hours to deliver to you the full amount in cash or you will call his wife and ask her if she knows that Biff is bouncing checks for services rendered, are you suffering some kind of financial problems, and oh ? "what kind of services are we talking about, did you ask ..."
He'll be there, count on it.

There are so few bona fide escorts of your caliber in the Palm Springs area, that I am surprised that "Biff" would tick you off in this way.

If you still want to see him in the future, tell him that he must pay you in full (in cash) for past services, and that any future service will also be for cash in advance.

If he says no, then you won't have to waste any more of your time with this idiot, although it does involve a business "write-off". OK, you can't really write it off, but the principle still holds.

This being said, I deposited a check one time from a friend that had "insufficient" funds in her account. Not only was she charged a penalty at her bank, but as I recall I was fined $25 from my bank for accepting a bad check - as if I could know in advance whether the check is good or bad. I wonder if this is standard policy for banks and bad checks?

Wait a few days and try to cash the check again. If still NSF, call Biff and ask him nicely how he plans to remedy the situation. If he doesn't make good soon, simply tell him the door is still open, but only if he shows up with cash for this episode and next time too. Then chalk it up to experience. No one likes to get stiffed, but it happens. Why make waves over such a small thing? Afterall, its only money, and I doubt it will change your life one way or the other. Your good karma for handling it with class will far outweigh the dollar loss. Either that, or go postal on him....lol.

I am not surprised that the check bounced.  I have a number of clients from the Newport Beach area.  You would be surprised how many are living over their heads just to put on the big show.  Jewelry in hock at the pawnbrokers, etc.  I think you wait a couple of days and if he still has not made it good play hardball.

Consider the computer as payment and write it off as a bad business expense and do not see the guy again.

If he hasn't made good by Monday, haul his ass into court. Small Claims is cheap, I think under $10 for the first filing. Once he receives it in the mail, I bet he responds. If you want to be really nasty, pay the extra $25-$30 to the Sheriff's and have him served by them at work. Bet that gets your money fast.

Don't forget that California is a community property state. Name his wife on the court papers but have them mailed to him. When he sees her name on the papers it will add extra insentive.

Just because you filed for a case does not mean you have to go any farther than that. Quite a few cases are settled because no one thought the other side had the nerve to go to court. Rmember that there is no evidence of you doing anything wrong. What is he going to do, stand in court and say he paid for sex? If he does say it, call him a liar and say you did no such thing. It is your word against his and he just admitted that you performed services for him. If he plays he has to pay.

I think these kinds of things happen to us because we are vulnerable…we cant call the police or take legal action against the clients who "stiff".  I also noticed that "men" are telling you to take the high road and forget it (I love you guys!) but I seriously doubt a lawyer or dentist or plumber would say "Your client stiffed you let it go...they would take them to small claims court. We cant do that and our clients know this, we cant really call their wife or employer because we are inviting more trouble than its worth. Whats a girl to do? I know...take the high road. :0)

As soon as I read the word: cheque, the Homer exclamation "Doh!" slipped past my lips before I even realized I had spoken it aloud.  Last minute cheques = non-payment.  Nevertheless, what do you when a good, (seemingly) reliable client makes this request?  No matter how charming you are, refusing to accept the cheque is going to result in the loss of that client.  Assuming you want to keep the client the only thing to do is stay for your minimum fee.  This tells him that you know what's really going on (i.e. that the cheque is going to bounce) but that you're sympathetic to his situation and would most certainly enjoy entertaining him again once he's returned to a more desirable financial state.

However, what does one do once the cheque is in hand?  Ask him politely WHEN you should deposit it.  It is also totally permissible to suggest that you and him work something out, if he isn't presently in a position to pay you.  That's better than having to pay fees on his bounced cheque, or being arrested!!!  

While this isn't the worst thing that could happen, it definitely isn't something to take lightly.  As nice as he may be, he is trying to take advantage of you, and you have every right to be ticked.  I wouldn't show up at his door with scary goons or anything but he should understand that what he's doing is unacceptable.

I hope this works out for you!
Maya

Sorry this happened to you..

You can call the bank to see if the check will clear for no cost, meanwhile... call all your provider friends in your area that you think he would see and tell them to CUT HIM OFF, til he makes good..  The way to a mans pocket book is to CUT HIM OFF!!!

I would not call his wife, but I would call him every couple of days to let him know the check hasn't cleared yet..

You can pay the Sheriff to serve it. Have it served on the address of the check or if you have a work address, do it there. You are in possession of the check and therefore are entitled to be paid unless he can prove fraudulent possession. If he does not show up, you explain to the judge that it was for services rendered as a consultant and evidence of the contract is the check. The "gentleman" in question will either claim services were defective (in which case whe would have to prove defect) or not even show up. In either case, you win. Just to make it right, I would do this.

Post his name here???

Nooooooooo... Purelust, your heart is in the right place... and I'd agree with you, except for one lil' nagging detail that would damn near give me a heart attack.

This girl almost got arrested for trying to cash a check that had been reported STOLEN!

Under that circumstance, there is no way you'd find me trying to cash a check from this guy, ever again.  (Altho honestly I've never accepted a check. I'd accept a paypal payment, a money order... but not a check.)  

I have had clients make mistakes with counting the money out before, come up a little short... even had one sweetie guy who completely FORGOT to give me the envelope at all. An honest mistake on his part, and he called me 20 minutes later apologizing profusely and asking to bring it to me.  I've always given my clients the benefit of the doubt, and always will, and have rarely (once) had cause to regret that.  BUT... getting arrested for cashing stolen checks doesn't figure into that amount of trust, benefit of the doubt, or whatever you want to call it for me. No way in hell =:O

If I were her, I would call him/email him, whatever... and just say listen, I understand there was a misunderstanding with the checks. But surely you can understand that I am not comfortable attempting to cash this at this time.  Can we make arrangements for you to pay this in cash, or with a money order, or a paypal payment?  I would be nice, I'd be understanding, and I would not be rude... but I would not try to cash that check. Worst case scenario for me would be kissing the money goodbye... worth it, if it means avoiding a stay in jail.  Regardless of whether or not the check was reported stolen by accident, if there was a misunderstanding, or what... NONE of that will matter to me when my lil' booty is sitting in a jail cell.  

Hugs*
Nicole

Would you really?

Even if it meant possibly (probably) taking a larger loss by the fact that anyone we sued, would most assuredly say... "Your Honor, this lady is a hooker and I can prove it."  It may not matter in that particular case, the judge might say "Regardless.. you promised her money owed for a service via a verbal contract, and you gotta pay!"  But it would almost DEFINITELY bring the eye of the law upon you.  So would you really do that? Take a chance of having your business destroyed completely, instead of taking a loss? Do you really think that if she filed a lawsuit against this guy, he wouldn't be so pissed off he'd be more than happy to tell the judge exactly what she does, printouts of websites and reviews in hand????

Methinks NOT!

I suggested that she play hardball with him if he doen't make good.  However I am also in business and have eaten losses rather than pursuing payment through the court system.  Some of the other gentlemen may be speaking from their own past actions in similar situations and just feel it is not worth the trouble to pursue the money agressively.

A check is a "formal contract" under the law. There is no more evidence you need to submit to demonstrate proof of claim. The burden of proof then shifts to the Defendant. "Personal services" were rendered and payment in kind was tendered. Default on payment must be supported by a legal justification of dispute. Rules for dispute on a formal contract like a check are rigid and very difficult to prove up. A layperson could not do it without a great deal of coaching from a contracts attorney. To walk in and claim payment was for an unlawful activity would require hard evidence of proof. Unless the Plaintiff says, “that’s true Your Honor, but I still deserve to be paid…” it is a claim without factual support and inadmissible as evidence. Unless you are in Orange County or the check writer is an Officer of the Court… LOL Then you are done…

Hearsay not relevant to the case pending is inadmissible and would gain no real notice whatsoever. Even with pictures. Smearing credibility of the Plaintiff in a formal contracts dispute gains you nothing.

The things blurted out during the interview with the Judge (usually a Judge Pro Temp) or the groundless irrelevant accusations made in direct testimony under oath in a small claims courtroom would blow your mind.

People call each other drug dealers, child molesters, rapists, thieves, extortionists, Republicans, gangsters, murderers and bad Moms. All is ignored by the Bailiff who is a County Sheriff Deputy who does not even get to check in at the station and tell his buddies the lame story he heard yesterday about the 14 year old hooker and her drug dealing Pimp Uncle Jethro… Cops have their hands full enough without chasing down rumor leads. Except in Orange County…. Why is that? You would think Disney would have more influence down there… Oh wait…. Disney does have influence…. Hmmmmm

Did you know that people lie under an oath before God? Shocking but true...

-- Modified on 3/13/2002 1:28:22 PM

If you sue in small claims court you have to use your real name.. Do you really want him or anyone else to know your real name, it will be a matter of public record then..

Thats my $0.13

As someone who has run into this before, I'll suggest a means that costs you little, but works.  Walk into his bank.  Every day.  Ask if the check will clear.  Ask every single day.  Go at 9AM every day (when doors open).  Odds are, he is counting this no longer in his budget.  Once it has "bounced" he cannot issue a stop pay in almost every state.  He missed his chance.  Eventually, it will clear - and shock the crap out of him when other items start bouncing.

In fact, as a way to -really- stick it, I made a gesture.. because the check I had was for $2,000+, I asked the bank "If I deposit say, $200 into this account, will it clear?" I ended up depositing $160 to make the check clear.. which whiped them out.

What could they do to me?  Nothing; they had written the check, me "making it good" (which of course, as they wailed, caused lots of their other checks to bounce..) well, that wasn't my problem.

Good plan, but banks will no longer take "blind deposits" or deposits without a deposit slip unless you are a signer on the account... Great story though.... you a contractor? Pretty smart. If you are bold enough you can hustle a sympathetic teller for a counter deposit slip and deposit cash. The teller might take some heat, but likely not. Especially if the skank did not put a stop payment on the check.

-- Modified on 3/14/2002 4:21:43 PM

I contract IT services.. anyway, yes, I had a supposed "legit" corporation that stiffed me a fair sum of money.  Because they take deposits from gobs of people (they are a business) then it was very easy for me to get my damn money.

But you'll find that in most instances, you can do just this at quite a few banks.  Bank America (used to be Bank IV) has somewhat of a "match funds" policy for exactly this if you can show the check failed to clear once.

I laughed in the guys face when I got bitter calls about doing this the next day "you SOB, etc. etc." I heard on the phone "I ought to go to the cops.."  to which I said "sure, go right ahead.  If you can explain why you wrote me a big check that bounced, and I gave you money - basically a discount - to make sure that it would clear so I didn't have to press charges.."

They shut up quickly.

Screw 'em.  Sometimes you have to be vicious.  I've also found, for smaller amounts, if you just show up at their bank every day and demand money (I did this on a small, $300 job) the bank will eventually either close out that persons account (which happened at a FirStar near here..) or they will "work" with you to get it taken care of.

The problem with my business (though very legit) is that in dealing with .com's, the last few years of programming work and contract services have sucked a** as most of them do the "gladly pay you tuesday for some Exchange setup today.."

First, I want to thank everyone for their input and variety of intelligent and colorful resolutions....
Next, I would like to thank the Academy.....(just kidding) I always wanted to use that line...


Anyway, I called my client and his bank several times trying to get the matter resolved. I am now on a first name basis with the entire banking staff! I was finally able to obtain funds. But, what a hassle!!! Sheeeeesh! The bank ended up actually holding the funds for me until I could make the 20 minute drive from where I was. I think they were tired of hearing from me. As expected, now there is tension betweeen the client and I. I regret that this happened and feel bad that a positive association seems to have run its course and ended on a bad note. Oh well. Something new, I realize that Ive got a lil rotweiller deposition when it comes to collecting money. Thanks again everyone near and far.....

xoxoxoxox
carol

ps..to answer the question of posting the persons name.....never, ever would i consider such an invasion of ones privacy. Thats almost as bad as calling the cops!

Good girl... I looked at your web site, and as far as I'm concerned...It's his loss....

What I said was not that the issue would be valid or of any importance to THAT particular case, but that it may well bring the eye of LE stronger upon a lady... and I stand by that statement.  I don't care if I would get the money by filing a lawsuit, I wouldn't do it because of the risks involved... it seems easier to me to NOT accept checks in the first place.

Hugs*
Nicole

(eom)