this woman lived a few doors down from me in a condo development for maybe 2 years. I'd see her in passing maybe once a week, and sometimes nod hello, sometimes not. She was about my age (then mid 20s), and maybe 6 or 7 of 10 - but I was single, and well, she may have been too, but there were a few kids hanging about, who knows about them?
Anyway, I was moving out, and the doorbell rings, and I open the door, and here she is, and she IMMEDIATELY lights into me ranting and hollering about how the hell could she expect to carry on our relationship!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I nodded and closed the door very quickly, and LOCKED IT!!
The moral of that story is, it's MEN who need to wear the burkas, and full body armor underneath.
I've had many hot, hot, hawt provider relationships turn on a dime. One day you're gold, the next day they won't return your calls for love or money. Been through this hamster wheel of passion so many times it barely phases men anymore. Sudden flashes of deep seated paranoia sometimes land from nowhere. Or the guy before you creeped or freaked her out so badly she bugged. Maybe the last customer had unbearable halotosis and barfed in the toilet then staggered out the door mumbling come to daddy. Or she uses opiates and her period has become totally random. Or her credit cards are suddenly maxxed out and she's stuck someplace and can't get there. The list is freaking endless.
Lots of times, having a stalker could make a woman doubt her friendships with guys, and every provider I've ever known has had one of those creepy guys.
I can call my ATF anytime, and she'll either pick up the phone, or call back soon. Only once have I ever had a ongoing relationship with a provider go cold suddenly, and that was because of one stupid post on TER. Lesson learned...be careful of anything you say here...especially under a providers post. Have a good day...
providers about their TER identity. To me, it's one of those things that is way better unsaid.
Maybe you only meet with providers once, and then move on, using a fake name and identity that basically disrespects any quality providers you may meet? Commenting under an alias here weakens your point. I personally have nothing to hide with the ladies I meet with...maybe that's why I am almost always able to meet with those I contact...and have a .000 flaked on average...
maybe I'm just here for the scintillating conversation.
Just saying, it seems to me that mentioning TER to a provider in connection with a session is somewhere between TMI & downright tacky.
Think of me as a low volume hobbyist. It could be true.
Dude,
Few (uh, NONE) of the things you state have been exclusive to "people of the hobbit" (scuse me, hobby). I could give you chapter and verse on civies... but that would invite the distress and lectures by many on this board.
Suffice to say, anyone who has been "in love" understands that to be "in love" means that you are governed by your hormones - be they estrogens or testosterones... When I was younger it seemed that every dude I know went thorough some sort of "Crisis" with his SO - myself included.
As to credit cards being maxed out... that kinda ended my marriage....
seriously - that is why - as I turn 60 this week, I prefer to hobby - the stress and unpredictability in civie world is too much...
oh, and for the ladies - I know, this is really not limited to females.... we guys have our own set of problems and issues.... P2M's post though struck a note with me... as he wants to claim that somehow this behavior is limited to escorts.... it is not... nor is it limited to females...
as opposed to provider relationships, which are like taking a shower while somebody is madly turning the hot and cold water valves behind a hidden wall... I've come to take the unpredictable nature of the hobby as par for the course, you just never know, as the Lotto ad says...
hobbying is a specific rental. She doesn't have to stay in the business or be there when you call, any more than you do.
If you want a longer term, an option, an easement or something, you might trying asking.
Not that I'd recommend it. Better just accept that life comes and goes, and good or bad times are relative.
Civvies are less trouble? that's totally not true. The last SO I had was a nightmare, as was my 19 year marriage.
I now have 2 ATF's and these ladies are golden compared to any civvie I have ever known.
Hey Bizzaro, 60 ant bad, I turn 63 in September.
Play safe, GT
only took me 17 years to recognize my marriage was a nightmare; and the next one got 2 strikes before I put her down.
I will be a mere 55 in a couple of weeks. I bet you dream of those youthful glorious mid 50's. Why I even still have hair, sort of.
Anyway I agree with what you have to say. Most of the time relationship issues are a two way street. These relationships are not an exception to that.
Happy birthday!
Civvie relationships, hobby relationships, hell, they can all be hellish at times bc afterall, we are all just human. It's part of the human condition; we all have trouble relating at times and all of us have way too many pressures, stress, etc... to deal with.
As for civvie relationships, it's not only the women that can be nutty. My last bf was a complete nightmare. Eventually, I had to consider... is mindblowing sex worth his assholiness or the massive amount of problems that I certainly couldn't solve for him? Nah. Not worth it, so I chucked him to the curb like so many before him.
I have a theory on all the wounded men in their 20's who are dating in L.A. The problem is that they are all the product of our parents' failed marriages and grew up as latch key kids in single parent homes with no male representation. They had to learn how to be a gentleman from their mom or school (if at all) and the breakup of the family unit has led them to believe that they can treat women shabbily bc it's the norm that they grew up with and they wear their disdain for women on their sleeve. It's a hard thing in L.A. sometimes to meet a well adjusted, well mannered guy who actually treats you like a lady. They invariably have other baggage, but as long as it's smaller than my purse, I'm good with the baggage. I don't do the whole luggage sets full of problems.
Katie
KL I see your point ie the broken family situations out here. What has always disturbed me is the magnitude of guys in the 20-30's that are physically violent with women. One can read about this phenomena all the time..This situation is not limited to LA..
My folks were together some 31 yrs; In all that time I never observed my Dad (RIP) so much as lift a finger against my Mom..They had a wonderful love & friendship and survived all kinds of difficult situations together..
Pretty sure the above has impacted the way I approach & treat women.
families also agreed.
3rd point, about wounded boys leading onto a general social theory, I doubt you can put such a broad range of issues on such a narrow description. Think you need to be more specific about the problem, and recognize a broader range of possible influences.
Eg, (from the other side of the fence) a guy could have issues trusting women if he thought they would kick him to the street about something he didn't understand. Or an older guy could be sick of women who cried when he was out hunting money, and cried when he was home that she needed more excitement (ie money or trouble).
Probably my personal favorite is Psych-Woman, the gal who needs to psychoanalyze you. These don't seem to realize that shrinking works 2 ways, and ANY behavior can be pathologized if you're so inclined.
The reason this is my favorite is because it's impossible to deal with. Psych dx are (any person's opinion of) a CONDITION, not a specific act or something that can be changed. So if she's decided you have an (insoluble) problem, then it's time to break out the parachute, because nothing will ever change.
I had a friend who claimed she never knew a man who left a relationship without having another to go to. Perhaps overstated, but I think the point is well taken, I doubt men are much more inclined to solitude than women.
I'm no psychologist (didn't even take Psych 101!) but I have lots of theories about things I notice and experience.
I'm willing to study more men to decide for myself. 
Katie
Katie, the problem is on the East Coast too. The guys our age are stuck up, selfish pigs who want to date their moms (women who will do everything for them and stroke their little egos).
I think it's because mom didn't have a husband to dote on so she transferred her affection to her son. Break up of the family, just as you said.
okay I thought I knew all the acronyms but what is civvies? civilians?
I must be the baby of the bunch. Just turned 45.
Much less stress in the hobby than in the civie world. Even when narrowly escaping detection on the home front
that's how it's different.
And you have a point, men stalk too. Damned if I can understand that one, but I've seen it happen.
How about waking up after great sex with her sitting on your chest with a butcher knife. Needless to say I bailed as soon as I could from "miss crazy."
filings involve a crazy woman and/or irresponsible man.
Thanks for the reply.
The story of this crazy lady is fascinating, so I post it for all's warning and amusement.
The lady in question was living in the same condo in NCAL as me, and she was going through a divorce. She was on "rebound" mode and I told her so. She was horny as hell, and looking for something more that just great sex. She used to knock on my door looking for sugar or laundry detergent, but that was just her pretense to get laid. So, one evening she came by on her usual mission, and I gladly obliged. After some really good screwing, she pressed the issue of "relationship" and I told her she needed to see a lot more men before she settled on one. Then we fell asleep, and that's when I awakened to her sitting on my chest with a butcher knife to my throat. How can you be cool with that? But somehow I managed it, suggesting she put the knife aside and we do the duty. That assuaged her. Within a few days she barged into my appt. and retrieved the pewter mugs she had gifted me.
So, final lesson I learned was beware of civies on rebound mission. May be a great lay, seem stable, but when obsession kicks in, time to bail.
this woman lived a few doors down from me in a condo development for maybe 2 years. I'd see her in passing maybe once a week, and sometimes nod hello, sometimes not. She was about my age (then mid 20s), and maybe 6 or 7 of 10 - but I was single, and well, she may have been too, but there were a few kids hanging about, who knows about them?
Anyway, I was moving out, and the doorbell rings, and I open the door, and here she is, and she IMMEDIATELY lights into me ranting and hollering about how the hell could she expect to carry on our relationship!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I nodded and closed the door very quickly, and LOCKED IT!!
The moral of that story is, it's MEN who need to wear the burkas, and full body armor underneath.
unfortunately, hollywood - AGAIN - fails to help provide real answers to real situations.... In most movies - ever notice how when either the male or the female is rejected - the rejected party persists.... and the rejecting party says "oh, yea I really do love you and want you in my life... I just was a testin' ya"
Does that EVER happen in real life? Maybe a fraction of a percent - but in reality - mostly NEVER! and yet hollywood makes ya think it happens on a common every day basis.... Thanks lunatic fringe... makes for a great movie - but a very bad lesson in life.
What we want - someone who feels about us, the same as we feel about them. Would you really want someone who does not? sadly that is the question that many do not ask... That is, if you have to 'convince someone' of your mutual love and affection - is it really what you want? Not me.... now to the strange case of Anna Nicole Smith... do I think there was love there? yes, I actually do... but it was on one side an attraction to beauty and on the other - real gratitude... not a bad arrangement... certainly better than most marriages that end in a bitter divorce...
and Katie... from just the little of you I can see, I can see why you've stalkers... you are an attractive woman - physically and intellectually!
There was a woman on this board - no longer on the boards - she was not a provider rather a web mistress extraordinaire.... I was quite attracted to her intellectually - that is possible.... soooo the point is, for feelings of passion to be useful - they must be mutual... and must include all aspects of the people involved - physical, emotional, intellectual!
Passion is a fickle thing, unfortunately... you may feel it and the other doesn't. It would be nice if we all got what we wanted easily, but then none of it would be worth it, would it? If you didn't have to kiss a lot of frogs before you marry the prince, I'm not sure it would hold the same meaning...
Well, doll, you're a cutie. Maybe that's why that chick pulled a gun on you. Stay away from the chicks of the NRA.
Katie
she had to inventory all the returns, what were gifts, etc etc. I gotta say, I've seen way more women who have no grace in that situation, than those who do.
Luckily, in 18 months I'd never given her a key to the joint.
Open-ended relationships are BIG risks. I wish I could impress on my kids that it's not a matter of whether life will change, only a matter of when & how.
I can't think of any person in my life that doesn't have some sort of issues. It is part of being a person. Sure I have issues. Once we are on our date my issues are put away. When we are together I make sure it is a drama free zone. Yet another example of why we should choose our dates wisely.
hmmm... running the scale on this one...
Let's see, I've never had a provider intentionally fuck with my career (as an ex-GF and my ex-wife did). I've never had a provider deliberately try to screw up my relationships with family and friends as did my ex-wife and more than one ex-GF... gosh, no wonder I'm enjoying life more and stressing less now...
I've had a couple turn on a dime.
I'll just stick to the ole philosophy "fuck 'em and flee".
as a result I don't review because I have been identified and barraged with crazed e-mails...
What, pray tell, does the number of reviews have to do with one's experience in this area of life ? Are you so unintelligent as to assume that every hobbiest will post a description of all of his encounters ? Maybe so....
I assume you have concluded that there is a 1:1 correspondence between what one writes in public fora and what one actually does.
Which, sadly, is both incredibly dumb and painfully naive.
The logic here is that one's knowledge is defined by one's reviews ?
Really, explain the contents of your mind, such as they are.
This is as illogical as saying that if one doesnt write reviews of movies than one must not have seen any movies, or if one doesn't write reviews of restaurants, then one hasn't gone to restaurants, or if one hasn't reviewed automobiles then one knows nothing about automobile ?
If someone came up to you and insisted that since you have not reviewed music then you have no valid opinions about music, you'd think that person was an idiot, right ?
If someone came up to you and said that since you don't draw maps you must have not ever driven on paved roads you'd think that person was an idiot right ?
So, that leaves us where ? Brainwise, I mean.
in much of any way, so I'm thinking (brainwise) it's probably better avoided.
Uhhh.. these are humans. Humans have problems. I don't think you can say that women, or providers, have any more "issues" than others. Certainly, everyone has their strengths and weaknesses, and there may be trends in certain professions or communities of people.
But if someone is abused or harassed, they will be affected and may develop PTSD- it may happen more to providers because they are meeting with unknown and new people more often due to the profession, but civvies can have such problems (ie. past relationships cause commitment issues in future relationships, sexual abuse in childhood causes problematic sexual relationships in adulthood, etc.)
Some people (read, people- that includes civvies, providers, hobbiests) use opiates (or other drugs, alcohol, etc.)- for pain management, recreationally, because they are addicted, whatever- and also some (many women, myself included) have very irregular and unpredictable periods, which can be caused by a host of variables and am unsure why you linked these or why a woman's periods are one's business or concern in the hobby (perhaps in a civvie relationship).
Many people go through periods of financial trouble in their lives, and the economy is getting worse.
Please don't try to generalize these things to the hobby- we're all human, and things happen.
One of the benefits of this hobby is the "no strings attached." So if a provider decides she no longer wants to see a specific client for any reason, or that she wants to leave the profession temporarily or permanently, that is her right. Same goes for hobbyists- you pick when and why and who you see, and are under no obligation to see the same provider again, or to see any provider at all. That is why it works the way it does and differs from civvie dating.
That said, if you find yourself consistently having issues with providers, you may want to delve a little deeper- could it be the "type" of providers you are seeing? Are you doing your research and are they well-reviewed? Could there be something within yourself that could be involved? Dig deeper. That said, these issues are real, and human. I think you may just be reading too much into it.. but I can't judge as I am not sure I know all the specifics about the situation, or the reasons you have come to this conclusion..
I think we do what we can with what we have, and live our lives the best way we know how and try to learn from mistakes- women and men, providers and hobbyists, humans of all cultures and countries. The most important thing, IMHO, is communication- being honest and communicating when something is going on with you so that the other person can gop from there. That said, there are boundaries and in this hobby, if either party wants out, it is not a break-up and no explanation is required- simply move on. It is the way of the hobby, although it wouldn't hurt to send a polite email asking for closure/clarification if you really feel you need it and if this is about a specific situation. She can choose to respond or not at her discretion, but if this has become a pattern and you can't deal, your options are to change the way you approach things or take a break from the hobby- but you can't take a "break" from life, and we are all human and all have issues.
Best of luck!
XoXo
Marea
-- Modified on 5/28/2008 6:42:35 AM